Author Topic: Nicholas Anelka  (Read 33423 times)

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Re: Anelka
« Reply #160 on: December 29, 2013, 02:50:22 pm »
Suddenly everyone is an expert on the matter here are the following facts:

1.) Noone actually knows what it means, there are three different opinions on this page which testifies to this fact
2.) The gesture is used by many people in many differing ways, it is all about context and Anelka has never shown any inclination towards anti-semitism
3.) The"shouting fire" argument refers to freedom of speech with the exception of a detriment of others (which I specified in an earlier post if you bothered to read) As far as we know, this gesture is of no detriment to anyone
4.) Anelka's mate was never convicted of any felony, he was fined several times for his stupid hate speech whereas Abu Hamza supports terrorism.

On at least three of these "facts" you are demonstrably wrong. I will not engage with you any further since you are arguing from a position of absolute ignorance and disdain for truth.
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Offline Sir Psycho Sexy

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Re: Anelka
« Reply #161 on: December 29, 2013, 02:53:01 pm »
Has this gesture been used in an "anti-establishment" context before. That is why this french comedian claims he does it right?
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Offline TheCharlatan

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Re: Anelka
« Reply #162 on: December 29, 2013, 02:58:47 pm »
On at least three of these "facts" you are demonstrably wrong. I will not engage with you any further since you are arguing from a position of absolute ignorance and disdain for truth.

Which points are wrong then? Please educate me oh wise one.

The fact that there are people who use this gesture in front of Holocaust memorials and others use it in the French hip hop scene shows that even among its users there's a disconnect over it's true meaning.

Anelka has never shown any history of anti-semitism, and Anelka's mate was fined for misdemeanors, he never commited any felony (as far as wiki is concerned).

If you are such an expert on French culture and reactionary comedians please enlighten us and try and prove anything I said wrong.

Unlike you I can recognize I don't know everything about the situation which is why I choose not to take a stance. Sometimes "I don't know"can hold more wisdom than the statement implies. What I won't do is jump to conclusions as you have when I don't know nearly enough about the subject matter.

The above is what I know to be true and will not make any conclusions based of of conjecture. Forgive me if history has taught me to be wary of what the newspapers and/or the FA accuse people of.

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« Last Edit: December 29, 2013, 03:01:29 pm by TheCharlatan »

Offline child-in-time

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Re: Anelka
« Reply #163 on: December 29, 2013, 03:02:03 pm »
Far left hates Jews?
Well, one might think Stalin's (as well as that of the rest post-WW II Soviet leaders) attitude towards Jews was positive.... wait, no it wasn't.
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Offline Lusty

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Re: Anelka
« Reply #164 on: December 29, 2013, 03:26:09 pm »
I assume that you don't actually think it is 'brave' to make a hand gesture?

You assume correctly.  I have added inverted commas though to be clear...

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Re: Anelka
« Reply #165 on: December 29, 2013, 03:32:40 pm »
Well, one might think Stalin's (as well as that of the rest post-WW II Soviet leaders) attitude towards Jews was positive.... wait, no it wasn't.
Their attitude wasn't positive to many people, what is your point?
The far left ideology itself excludes differentiating people. The fact that Stalin did not give a shit about ideology should be clear by now.

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Re: Anelka
« Reply #166 on: December 29, 2013, 03:34:21 pm »
Which points are wrong then? Please educate me oh wise one.

The fact that there are people who use this gesture in front of Holocaust memorials and others use it in the French hip hop scene shows that even among its users there's a disconnect over it's true meaning.

Anelka has never shown any history of anti-semitism, and Anelka's mate was fined for misdemeanors, he never commited any felony (as far as wiki is concerned).

If you are such an expert on French culture and reactionary comedians please enlighten us and try and prove anything I said wrong.

Unlike you I can recognize I don't know everything about the situation which is why I choose not to take a stance. Sometimes "I don't know"can hold more wisdom than the statement implies. What I won't do is jump to conclusions as you have when I don't know nearly enough about the subject matter.

The above is what I know to be true and will not make any conclusions based of of conjecture. Forgive me if history has taught me to be wary of what the newspapers and/or the FA accuse people of.

Also, well in Soton.

I shan't educate you. That's your own responsibility. I shall clarify, however, that my own understanding of French culture and politics comes from my teaching of A level French, in which these themes constantly recur. I read three French language newspapers (two French, one Belgian) each week. I do not profess to be an expert, but I at least speak from a position where I have a modicum of awareness, rather than claiming my own ill-researched guesses as "facts". As previously mentioned, I won't engage again with you on the issue at stake as your awareness of the issues is at best ill-informed.
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Offline TheCharlatan

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Re: Anelka
« Reply #167 on: December 29, 2013, 03:50:57 pm »
I shan't educate you. That's your own responsibility. I shall clarify, however, that my own understanding of French culture and politics comes from my teaching of A level French, in which these themes constantly recur. I read three French language newspapers (two French, one Belgian) each week. I do not profess to be an expert, but I at least speak from a position where I have a modicum of awareness, rather than claiming my own ill-researched guesses as "facts". As previously mentioned, I won't engage again with you on the issue at stake as your awareness of the issues is at best ill-informed.

That's funny because all you come across is a pretentious francophile who still can't refute a single thing I said instead just repeating how wrong I am. Accusing someone of anti-semitism should not be taken lightly and should be done on a more solid base than what you read in three newspapers or even a hundred newspapers. You are entitled to your opinion but I would not want my kids being taught by someone with such a crippling inability to think independently and a miasma of pretension that clouds you from other perspectives. This time I hope you won't feel compelled to engage me as you did before because I think I've learned all I need to about you in your last few posts. Good luck.

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Re: Anelka
« Reply #168 on: December 29, 2013, 03:51:16 pm »
Their attitude wasn't positive to many people, what is your point?
The far left ideology itself excludes differentiating people. The fact that Stalin did not give a shit about ideology should be clear by now.

But the anti-Jewish purges directly after the war, the campaign against 'cosmopolitanism' (the Soviet code word for 'international Jewry') and the 'Doctors' Plot' obviously constitute impressive evidence for Communist anti-semitism. The modern-day Trotskyist left has its anti-Semitic strains too.
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Re: Anelka
« Reply #169 on: December 29, 2013, 04:03:09 pm »
But the anti-Jewish purges directly after the war, the campaign against 'cosmopolitanism' (the Soviet code word for 'international Jewry') and the 'Doctors' Plot' obviously constitute impressive evidence for Communist anti-semitism. The modern-day Trotskyist left has its anti-Semitic strains too.
May be so, but then, what do you think the reason for that? What is the motive for the communist hate for jews?

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Re: Anelka
« Reply #170 on: December 29, 2013, 04:06:02 pm »
May be so, but then, what do you think the reason for that? What is the motive for the communist hate for jews?

You have to have a motive or a reason for hating a whole race of people? Jeezus.
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Offline Xxavi

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Re: Anelka
« Reply #172 on: December 29, 2013, 04:15:10 pm »
You have to have a motive or a reason for hating a whole race of people? Jeezus.
I am talking about ideology and not people. I am not asking why Stalin hated, I am asking, if you think so, why communism would hate jews? Or far left?

It is clear why far right would hate. But far left, why?

PS Of course you have to have a motive for hating. Hating anything, whole race or 1 person. Not sure why this surprises you.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2013, 04:18:53 pm by Xxavi »

Offline child-in-time

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Re: Anelka
« Reply #173 on: December 29, 2013, 04:19:04 pm »
I am talking about ideology and not people. I am not asking why Stalin hated, I am asking, if you think so, why communism would hate jews? Or far left?

It is clear why far right would hate. But far left, why?
May I ask how is it clear why far rightists do hate Jews?
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Re: Anelka
« Reply #174 on: December 29, 2013, 04:22:16 pm »
May I ask how is it clear why far rightists do hate Jews?
They would just generally hate anything that is not them really. So it would not necessarily be exclusive hate of jews, it would be hate of anything that is foreign.

Whether the stated reason is racial inferiority or being lazy or being unproductive or taking jobs or bringing crime, it differs.

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Re: Anelka
« Reply #175 on: December 29, 2013, 06:49:36 pm »
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/west-bromwich-albion/10541227/Nicolas-Anelka-should-be-banned-by-Premier-League-urge-political-Muslim-and-Jewish-groups-in-France.html

Both Muslim and Jewish groups in France ferociously urge the FA to ban him, the fact both sides of the argument are saying he should be banned says it all really, Anelka has been Muslim since 2004.

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Re: Anelka
« Reply #176 on: December 29, 2013, 06:59:40 pm »
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/west-bromwich-albion/10541227/Nicolas-Anelka-should-be-banned-by-Premier-League-urge-political-Muslim-and-Jewish-groups-in-France.html

Both Muslim and Jewish groups in France ferociously urge the FA to ban him, the fact both sides of the argument are saying he should be banned says it all really, Anelka has been Muslim since 2004.
Remarkable, Nicolas Anelka brings Muslims and Jews together.

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Re: Anelka
« Reply #177 on: December 29, 2013, 07:04:08 pm »
What do they know? They are just Francophiles, right TheCharlatan? Right?!

:P

For the record, I stand guilty as charged. I am indeed a Francophile. I am probably a little pretentious at times too, at least when posting on RAWK. What bearing this could possibly have on the discussion of whether Dieudonné is an anti-Semite and whether it is acceptable for a Premier League footballer to publicly display support for such a man is frankly beyond me.
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Re: Anelka
« Reply #178 on: December 29, 2013, 07:05:17 pm »
Locked for a clear out.
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Offline kkhaku

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Nicolas Anelka
« Reply #179 on: March 14, 2014, 06:24:21 pm »
Nicolas Anelka 'terminates' contract with West Brom

Nicolas Anelka has said on Twitter that he has terminated his contract with West Brom with "immediate effect".
The French striker was banned for five games and fined Ł80,000 for making a 'quenelle' gesture after scoring against West Ham on 28 December.
He said: "Following discussions between the club and myself, certain conditions have been set which I can't accept.
"In order to preserve my integrity, I've terminated my contract with West Brom with immediate effect."

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/26587077#TWEET1072507
« Last Edit: October 28, 2014, 12:20:34 pm by The 5th Benitle »
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Offline sminp

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Re: Anelka terminates West Brom contract
« Reply #180 on: March 14, 2014, 06:44:25 pm »
I feel sorry for the guy, he seems to have been hung out to dry
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Re: Anelka terminates West Brom contract
« Reply #181 on: March 14, 2014, 06:52:17 pm »
I feel sorry for the guy, he seems to have been hung out to dry
For making an antisemitic symbol in public ...

He may say he didn't mean it as an antisemitic symbol, but the fact is, that he CANT have not known about its interpretation given his supposed close friendship with the comedian.

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Offline Solomon Grundy

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Re: Anelka terminates West Brom contract
« Reply #182 on: March 14, 2014, 06:58:37 pm »
I have no sympathy for him whatsoever.

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Re: Anelka terminates West Brom contract
« Reply #183 on: March 14, 2014, 06:59:14 pm »
I feel sorry for the guy, he seems to have been hung out to dry

Really ?

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Re: Anelka terminates West Brom contract
« Reply #184 on: March 14, 2014, 07:12:11 pm »
Thought this would be a great signing at the start of the season

I feel sorry for the guy, he seems to have been hung out to dry

In what way?
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Re: Anelka terminates West Brom contract
« Reply #185 on: March 14, 2014, 07:13:06 pm »
Still a good player though

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Re: Anelka terminates West Brom contract
« Reply #186 on: March 14, 2014, 07:13:54 pm »
I feel sorry for the guy, he seems to have been hung out to dry

Er.....

Do you know what anti-semetic means?
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

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Re: Anelka terminates West Brom contract
« Reply #187 on: March 14, 2014, 07:14:40 pm »
Thought this would be a great signing at the start of the season


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Offline ALPH1217

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Re: Anelka terminates West Brom contract
« Reply #188 on: March 14, 2014, 07:27:21 pm »
I have no sympathy for him whatsoever.
Feel the same way. He showed his true colours at the last WC. A 5 star, ocean- going pain in the arse if there ever was one.

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Re: Anelka terminates West Brom contract
« Reply #189 on: March 14, 2014, 07:30:12 pm »
And thus (probably) ends one of the most coulda-woulda-shoulda careers in history. Immensely talented but always seemed to get in trouble wherever he went.

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Re: Anelka terminates West Brom contract
« Reply #190 on: March 14, 2014, 07:31:11 pm »
He asked for trouble and he got it. Again.

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Re: Anelka terminates West Brom contract
« Reply #191 on: March 14, 2014, 07:35:14 pm »
Must be tough to quit your team so you can stand by your friend.

Guess Nic can gesture all he likes now.
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Re: Anelka terminates West Brom contract
« Reply #192 on: March 14, 2014, 07:36:03 pm »
Good riddance. Hopefully its the end of his club hopping.
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Re: Anelka terminates West Brom contract
« Reply #193 on: March 14, 2014, 07:40:03 pm »
Been hung out to dry I reckon.

He should have just stated it was anti-Zionist and seen if they banned him.

Hope all of you in here aren't going to support Sakho when he has the Liverbird on his chest.
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Re: Anelka terminates West Brom contract
« Reply #194 on: March 14, 2014, 07:46:07 pm »
He's a dickhead. I feel sorry for West Brom.
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Re: Anelka terminates West Brom contract
« Reply #195 on: March 14, 2014, 07:46:47 pm »

He should have just stated it was anti-Zionist and seen if they banned him.

Hope all of you in here aren't going to support Sakho when he has the Liverbird on his chest.

But it wasn't 'anti-Zionist'. It was anti-Semitic. As in 'the guy who invented it really hates Jews and does it because he really hates Jews.' He's always going on about 'les juifs'. It's what his net channel's about. He's a conspiracy-minded twat and the quenelle looks like an upside-down sieg heil because... that's what it is. All this stuff about 'anti-establishment'? It's because Dieudonné believes the evil juifs are the establishment.

Anelka can get fucked.

Edit: Oh yes, and if Sakho does it on the field of play, he can get fucked too. That's not hard.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2014, 07:48:35 pm by Mighty Zeus »
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Re: Anelka terminates West Brom contract
« Reply #196 on: March 14, 2014, 07:50:53 pm »
Hope all of you in here aren't going to support Sakho when he has the Liverbird on his chest.

Didn't Sakho say he was tricked into doing it and he didn't know what it meant?

Same couldn't be said for Anelka who is very good friends with the guy who invented the gesture.

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Re: Anelka terminates West Brom contract
« Reply #197 on: March 14, 2014, 07:52:26 pm »
Didn't Sakho say he was tricked into doing it and he didn't know what it meant?

Same couldn't be said for Anelka who is very good friends with the guy who invented the gesture.

Quiet you, it doesn't fit with the narrative being peddled.
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Offline Mighty Zeus

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Re: Anelka terminates West Brom contract
« Reply #198 on: March 14, 2014, 08:05:25 pm »
Quiet you, it doesn't fit with the narrative being peddled.

What 'narrative' is that?

The narrative that Nicolas Anelka made an anti-Semitic gesture as a goal celebration? The 'narrative' that happens to be exactly what actually happened?

Sakho said he got tricked into doing it. Sakho didn't do it on the field of play. Sakho isn't Dieudonné's mate.

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Re: Anelka terminates West Brom contract
« Reply #199 on: March 14, 2014, 08:07:34 pm »
Seems that he hasn't even bothered to tell west brom that he's cancelled his contract
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