Topic: Alternative medicine

[Manila Kop]

My mother had a slipped disc in her lower spine and the pain got progressively worse.  At first she was just unable to bend forward or sit down for a long period without feeling pain.  It was exacerbated when she would try to lift heavy things in the house.  Eventually the pain got so debilitating that she spent the better part of a year bedridden, only standing up to go to the toilet (at which point she would be crying in pain).

We tried everything Western medicine could offer - painkillers and chiropractors and physical therapy.  The doctors advised against an operation because there was a 50% chance of permanent paralysis below the waist.  My uncle brought an acupuncturist, trained in mainland China, who also had a medical degree.  After a year of acupuncture treatments, the pain diminished and my mother has been able to function normally ever since.  She sees the acupuncturist once every year for a tune-up but otherwise the pain is gone and there's been no relapse.

Make of it what you will, but it worked where Western medicine could offer no help.

[Corkboy]

Fair enough.  I didn't know if they were included or not.

Well, the stuff they do on me is pretty regular, yanking and pulling and whatnot. I believe they do other more alternative stuff, too though.

[The 5th Benitle]

Well, the stuff they do on me is pretty regular, yanking and pulling and whatnot.

Isn't that an alternative massage?

[kesey]

Anyone tried it? Anyone totally sceptical? I've always thought of it as the kind of thing fit only for knit-your-own-yoghurt sandal-wearers but I'm starting to think there might be more to it.

Yes and I actually practice it.

I have Diplomas in Indian Head Massage, Swedish Massage and Reflexology. I have also dabbled in Thai Yoga Massage, Accupuncture and Iam also a Reiki Practioner. Yoga along with Meditation are also in The Holistic bracket I guess. Also do not foget the importance of Diet and Nutrition.

The main message of Holistic / Alternative is that it is about prevention and not cure. It al;so deals with the ROOT of a DIS - EASE and not the SYPTOM.

EG - I had a rash on each crease of my elbow a few years ago. I went to the docs and he insisted on the Western approcah by giving me some shit cream full of chemicals to to rub. I told him that these two rashes are on my liver meridian lines acording to accupuncture / Chinese Medicine . I swerved the cream and went to see a Chinese Herbalist after a liver check up. Have I guess what ? It was a liver problem indeed. I was told to do a liver detox and take some herbs. Have a guess what?  The rash went within weeks. Now if I listend to god old doc and tok the Western approach I could have had liver failure in years to come.

PLACEBO.

So it works then .   Also which ones have you trid out yourself.

Heathen!

Oh and by the way. New Western Medicine should be called Alternative as compared to the tried and tested ancient practices it hasn't been around very long now has it.

If you've got diabetes, what would you prefer insulin or 17 needles shoved in your face whilst listening to fucking whale music?

Woaah there mate. now may be the best time to inform you that anger / stress leads to 70 % of illnesses or DIS - EASE.

Just realised that this is an old thread.

[Corkboy]

Isn't that an alternative massage?

I suppose. It's not a lot different than physio, though. I've had 'em all. I have a very entertaining lower back.

[kesey]

 I've had 'em all.

'em all. The young and the old and the small.
You get no promotion this side of the ocean.

[pete price]

if it actually works shouldn't it just be called 'medicine'?

it's like callin a watch an 'alternative clock'.

[kesey]

if it actually works shouldn't it just be called 'medicine'?

.

Good point.

But if there is an alternative one it should be the conventional one as its been around for such a short time.

Science and Holistic thinking will unite very soon I think.

[Corkboy]

Homeopathy couple jailed over daughter's death

Associated Press in Sydney guardian.co.uk, Monday 28 September 2009


A husband and wife were jailed today for the manslaughter of their baby, who died after they chose to use homeopathic remedies rather than conventional medicine to treat her severe skin disorder.

Thomas Sam, 42, a lecturer in homeopathy, and his wife Manju, 37, of Sydney, were convicted in June after the death of their nine-month-old daughter Gloria from septicaemia and malnutrition in May 2002. The parents had faced a maximum penalty of 25 years in prison. The New South Wales state supreme court justice, Peter Johnson, ordered Thomas Sam to serve at least six years in jail, with a maximum sentence of eight years, and Manju to serve at least four years in jail with a maximum of five years and four months.

Johnson said there was a "wide chasm" between the couple's approach and the action a reasonable parent would have taken. Thomas Sam's "arrogant approach" to his preference for homeopathy and Manju Sam's deference to her husband led to their daughter's death, he said.

Prosecutors said Thomas Sam continued to consult homeopaths and natural medicine practitioners after his daughter was diagnosed at four months old. Her health continued to deteriorate and her black hair turned white.

Gloria became malnourished by battles against infections that invaded her bloodstream through skin broken by rashes.

Her parents finally took her to a hospital and doctors gave her morphine and began treating an eye infection that had started to melt her corneas. She died three days later.

Source

[montysmum]

I think the term 'alternative medicine is misleading and also could be dangerous if people totally turned their back on convential science based treatments.

There are though several therapies which can be used alongside convential medicine with really good affect.  Reflexology, Aromatherapy, and massage  can all be very beneficial, and can bring about a feel good effect that convential medicine on its own can't.  For this reason many hospitals now incorporate these therapies when treating long term chronic illnesses. 

There are some alternative disciplines which are viewed as a treatment in their own right - accupuncture for example has had some very good results, and again is used in some hospitals for pain relief.

While scientific double blind trials may not show how these treatments work, and the placebo affect can't  be ruled out, the fact that many people feel better after being treated cannot be ignored.  If going for some refloxology or a massage keeps people off pain killers or anti depressants for a while then surely it is a successful form of treatment?

[LFCMunkee]

Using Ayervada medicine at the moment as i've got bad kidneys and suprisingly it's working. The good thing about it is it has no side affects! Woo!

[kickinkaz]

Ayurvedic medicine is thing of the norm in my family, as a child I was more of a believer in Western Medicine, I thought the natural stuff my parents used was useless compare to tablets pills liquids from the pharmacy. But I long realised, boy, did my grandparents and ancestor's knew a thing or two about healthy none chemical medicine. Natural herbs, Yoga and so on.

I find it amazing how western medicine is looking at Eastern Medicine and infusing the two.       

[redy]

I have absolutely no faith in Homeopathy and Ayurveda.

I had a friend who since he was in high school or so, used to take homeopathic medicine for frequent abdominal pain. And in med school for a long time he was the class example of moon-shaped face which is a sign of cushing's which is a disorder due to excess corticosteroids. It turned out that what he had was appendicular problems which were  being masked with regular steroids in his homeopathic medicines. I am not sure how he realized that but in any case he stopped his homeopathic medicines and he slimmed down quickly enough. I believe he used the steroids for something liek 5-10 yrs. I think and hope he stopped them before they did even more long term damage, but he is back to his normal self.

I also saw a TV report on the Indian ayruvedic stuff which apparently contained much poisonous and toxic amounts of metals/minerals/whatever like Arsenic etc.

Made me very very weary of ayurveda and completely against homeopathy.

I do believe in Acupuncture however as I had an uncle whose paraplegia from stroke improved a lot after acupuncture for a long time.

[macca888]

I suppose. It's not a lot different than physio, though. I've had 'em all. I have a very entertaining lower back.

Corky, get yourself down to Norwegian Woods in Birkenhead. I remember reading about it in the Echo for offering back massages and ..errr... other alternatives   

Honestly, I wouldn't put any sort of faith in Chinese herbalists, Boots homeopathic medicines or anything of that nature, but I'm sure clinical trials have proven the efficacy of acupuncture.

[DJBrenton]

Is crushing the bark of a tree and making a tea from it to cure malaria still considered alternative? I guess once we give the active ingredient a name such as quinine it becomes conventional and can't be used in favour of homeopathy.

Do homeopathic remedies like aspirin work?

[macca888]

Is crushing the bark of a tree and making a tea from it to cure malaria still considered alternative? I guess once we give the active ingredient a name such as quinine it becomes conventional and can't be used in favour of homeopathy.

Do homeopathic remedies like aspirin work?

But that's not homeopathic medicine if it's got an active ingredient is it? Homeopathic medicine is one which the active ingredient has actually been diluted out of it I think. And pretty much any convential medicine has endured a series of clinical trials to ensure it works, whereas homeopathic medicines haven't.

[Terry de Niro]

Corky, get yourself down to Norwegian Woods in Birkenhead. I remember reading about it in the Echo for offering back massages and ..errr... other alternatives   

It's in Hoylake...errr...I read about it in the Echo.. 

[pathetic]

I know I may sound silly asking this question but can one have acupuncture sessions without actually needing them? Or it's only a treatment if you have certain conditions?

[macca888]

I know I may sound silly asking this question but can one have acupuncture sessions without actually needing them? Or it's only a treatment if you have certain conditions?

They're not going to do much good if you've got fuck all wrong with you are they? Would you take penicillin if you wasn't sick? Anadin if you had no headache? If you want needles stuck in you without needing them, that's just S+M if you ask me. Just pay Madame Helga £20 to smack your arse, unless of course you prefer to look like this fella

[Manila Kop]

I know I may sound silly asking this question but can one have acupuncture sessions without actually needing them? Or it's only a treatment if you have certain conditions?

You'd be wasting your money if you don't need a certain condition treated.

[pathetic]

thanks mates. i thought maybe they could relax you or something like that. and i can get them for free

[Manila Kop]

thanks mates. i thought maybe they could relax you or something like that. and i can get them for free

Oh if it's free, knock yourself out.  Good for the chi flow and all that. 

[pathetic]

Oh if it's free, knock yourself out.  Good for the chi flow and all that. 

that's what i thought maybe some sort of energy or that sort of thing

[SP]

Is crushing the bark of a tree and making a tea from it to cure malaria still considered alternative? I guess once we give the active ingredient a name such as quinine it becomes conventional and can't be used in favour of homeopathy.

Do homeopathic remedies like aspirin work?

You are mistaking traditional remedies, which is in effect medicine from before we had drug companies so plants were the only handy source and homeopathy. Many medicines are derived from plants. New drugs are still being extracted from plants.

Homeopathy is completely different. Since the active ingredient is generally diluted so it is exceptionally improbable that even a single molecule of it remains. It then gets into the voodoo science that the water is imprinted in some way with the essence of the active ingredient. Newsflash, we have a water cycle on this planet. Water has been in contact with an awful lot of chemicals, plants and animals. Does this mean spring water would have these properties? (I'll humour them and assume that tap water purification kills the mystical magic). It is placebo bollocks. Probably makes you feel better if you believe so is relatively harmless, as long as it is used in tandem with other approaches.

[kesey]

I also saw a TV report on the Indian ayruvedic stuff which apparently contained much poisonous and toxic amounts of metals/minerals/whatever like Arsenic etc.

But have YOU ever tried Ayurvedic Medicine yourself?

thanks mates. i thought maybe they could relax you or something like that. and i can get them for free

Oh if it's free, knock yourself out.  Good for the chi flow and all that. 

Try Tai' Chi Chuan or Qi ( Chi ) - Qong . You have to put more effort into the practice but the results will be worth it.

PS - Western Medicine shoul dbe called alternative as it's been around the shortest period of time. There is so , so much that this practice has to learn and take into account to find the roots of DIS - EASE.

[kickinkaz]

I have absolutely no faith in Homeopathy and Ayurveda.

I also saw a TV report on the Indian ayruvedic stuff which apparently contained much poisonous and toxic amounts of metals/minerals/whatever like Arsenic etc.

Indeed some of the Ayurvedic medicine made in India, is not pure and do contain poisonous toxic amounts, the problem there is the quality control can be poor, you can never completely trust the purity of it. That is why my family make some of the Ayurvedic medicine themselves, using fresh ingredients herbs in its purity. In India Ayurvedic recipes in villages have been around for years passed on to generation after generation. They have their own farms and can grow the ingredients. Ayurvedic recipes and formula's are fantastic but you have to make sure you use pure ingredients and the right quantity. 

[MichaelA]

Any resident RAWK Yogis able to provide me with a good starting place to learn about ayurveda?

[Corkboy]

Any resident RAWK Yogis able to provide me with a good starting place to learn about ayurveda?

Kesey is probably your man.

[MichaelA]

Kesey is probably your man.

I know - I'm trying to 'smoke him out'.

[The 5th Benitle]

It's snake oil for the twenty first century.

Any resident RAWK Yogis able to provide me with a good starting place to learn about ayurveda?

You've changed But spotted this:

Using Ayervada medicine at the moment as i've got bad kidneys and suprisingly it's working. The good thing about it is it has no side affects! Woo!

thanks mates. i thought maybe they could relax you or something like that. and i can get them for free

Duncan Jenkins?

[MichaelA]

You've changed

I knew that post would be dragged out by some reprobate. I was mainly thinking of homeopathic remedies rather than herbal or other natural therapies. Honest.

[TepidT2O]

I knew that post would be dragged out by some reprobate. I was mainly thinking of homeopathic remedies rather than herbal or other natural therapies. Honest.

Oh, that's easy.

They don't work.

[MichaelA]

Oh, that's easy.

They don't work.

I know. Homeopathic remedies were the snake oil thy I was referring to in the earlier post.

[Maggie May]

They're not going to do much good if you've got fuck all wrong with you are they? Would you take penicillin if you wasn't sick? Anadin if you had no headache? If you want needles stuck in you without needing them, that's just S+M if you ask me. Just pay Madame Helga £20 to smack your arse, unless of course you prefer to look like this fella

Oh a half decent spanking is much more than £20 these days Macca.