Author Topic: (Into ET) West Ham 2-1 Liverpool (Antonio '45 Coutinho '48) (Read 70459 times)

groove · « **Reply #1040 on:** February 10, 2016, 01:29:30 pm »

Quote from: redprodigal on February 10, 2016, 01:16:45 pm

Smith is quicker than Moreno.
Smith is a better crosser than Moreno.
Smith does not seem to have brain farts like Moreno does.
Smith deserves a chance because he is no worse at defending and offers more going forward.

- Like I said, if Smith's quicker then fair enough, I hadn't noticed it. If he can take advantage of that and provide coverage for gaps like Moreno does, especially on the recovery, and take advantage of it in terms of pressing/closing down long distances quickly then fantastic.
- Crossing is a minor win for Smith, really, unless Benteke starts, obviously. I'm not really arsed about that, crossing is overrated in our first choice team. I'd rather we worked the ball to the feet of Sturridge and Firmino inside and then had movement around them. When we have players that can create of intricate balls around the corner, 1-2s and through balls then we play to that strength. I think Moreno is better at this stuff, his close control and passing in tight areas is snappier.
- Smith has brain farts. Come on, we all saw his debut and we all saw him tuck in too far in last night and give himself no chance vs the scorer. The reason it isn't too apparent yet is because he hasn't had the playing time of Moreno for those to show up in the same number.
- Smith does deserve a chance over Moreno, yes. But it's close. People are too black and white in their thinking here and struggle with the fact that this a close match up right now. I'd give him a league game or two, but probably not the next one after he played 120 minutes last night.

Sangria · « **Reply #1041 on:** February 10, 2016, 01:30:41 pm »

Quote from: Bakez0151 on February 10, 2016, 01:24:04 pm

I'm not sure for certain if Smith is the quickest player in our squad, but he utilises his pace the best. When it comes to making those runs down the line, he's much better than Clyne, Ibe or Moreno, from what we've seen.

Moreno is pretty decent at running into space with the ball at his feet. If his LB spot gets occupied, I wonder if it's worth using him as a forward with a simple remit of getting the ball forward as quickly as possible before laying it off or having a belt.

Snoopy29 · « **Reply #1042 on:** February 10, 2016, 01:36:59 pm »

I agree what Didi said.

Our defenders lool like children infront of those beasts.
Liverpoolneed another Hyypia.

lgvkarlos · « **Reply #1043 on:** February 10, 2016, 01:37:52 pm »

Quote from: BTGH on February 10, 2016, 12:59:32 pm

still cannot understand why he was taken off with Coutinho.....did not see much wrong in his game last night

Same, think he wanted to give game time to Origi and sturridge. Tex is like coutinho he doesn't think about passing it's instinctive.

Cpt_Reina · « **Reply #1044 on:** February 10, 2016, 01:37:55 pm »

Quote from: groove on February 10, 2016, 01:16:12 pm

He isn't? I mean, fair enough then, I didn't realise Smith was the fastest player in the squad maybe bar Ibe.

Yeah, I wouldn't be betting on anyone to beat Smith in a foot race he's absolutely rapid.

“I did sprinting from the age of nine to 14 until I came over here,” he says. “I was better at the 200m – I used to do it in 22 seconds and 100m in 11 seconds flat. I was about 14."

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/liverpool-defender-brad-smith-feared-7210454

groove · « **Reply #1045 on:** February 10, 2016, 01:40:01 pm »

Quote from: Cpt_Reina on February 10, 2016, 01:37:55 pm

Yeah, I wouldn't be betting against anyone to beat Smith in a foot race he's absolutely rapid.

“I did sprinting from the age of nine to 14 until I came over here,” he says. “I was better at the 200m – I used to do it in 22 seconds and 100m in 11 seconds flat. I was about 14."

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/liverpool-defender-brad-smith-feared-7210454

Oof. That is quick.

24/7 · « **Reply #1046 on:** February 10, 2016, 01:42:00 pm »

Quote from: groove on February 10, 2016, 01:40:01 pm

Oof. That is quick.

Identical to my PBs them

SerbianScouser · « **Reply #1047 on:** February 10, 2016, 01:45:26 pm »

Quote from: redprodigal on February 10, 2016, 01:16:45 pm

Smith does not seem to have brain farts like Moreno does.
Smith is no worse at defending

...on a 2 game evidence.

Suareznumber7 · « **Reply #1048 on:** February 10, 2016, 01:50:02 pm »

Quote from: SerbianScouser on February 10, 2016, 01:45:26 pm

...on a 2 game evidence.

Exactly. If Moreno was out there for the first goal can you imagine the abuse he would've received for not being aware of an attacker 5 feet behind him wide open.

groove · « **Reply #1049 on:** February 10, 2016, 01:50:23 pm »

Quote from: 24/7 on February 10, 2016, 01:42:00 pm

Identical to my PBs them

Yeah, mine too... in terms of eating my dinner, anyway. Usually smash that back in around 11 seconds flat.

JerseyKloppite · « **Reply #1050 on:** February 10, 2016, 02:00:51 pm »

Mignolet looked a little shaky under pressure from Carroll but was fouled a couple of times and got nothing. But other than that he wasn't tested much. I wonder if he might have done a little better for the second goal but it would be a bit harsh.
Flanagan looked good, really put himself about which is great to see and liked getting up and down the line.
Lucas was absolutely superb, MOTM. Won aerial balls, stayed calm and composed and put in some excellent blocks/tackles.
Ilori didn't look at all fazed by the occasion, assured in defence and comfortable on the ball. Good passer of the ball too in the early stages before putting in sensible long clearances as we dropped deeper.
Smith was excellent. Tired towards the end but another solid performance, looks equal to Moreno in both attack and defence IMO.
Stewart is a very tidy player, does the dirty work well and managed his game sensibly after the booking. Don't think he looks as good on the ball as he does off it, but there's plenty of potential there.
Chirivella looked comfortable in our midfield until the changes, slotted in neatly and played some good passes. Good positioning and dealt with extremely physical WHam players well. After we effectively lost a midfielder with Teixeira going off he looked stretched until being subbed off but no fault of his own.
Teixeira looked same as ever, some neat touches but lacking a bit of end product. Could well have scored in the first half but not composed enough. Someone else I'd like to see more of but not sure about his long-term future.
Ibe was our worst player by some margin. Only person I thought put in a bad performance, poor decision making (that backheel in the 90th minute, what was he doing?!), running into channels. No end product and after Sturridge came on he didn't look like he knew where he was supposed to play. Plenty of potential but not a good game.
Coutinho rusty understandably but still looked a real threat with the ball at his feet. Hit the post and took his goal very coolly. Sad he had to go off and we lost a lot of shape but he's getting his fitness back and is such a huge part of the team.
Benteke. Eurgh. Hard to say. Some things he did brilliantly (the pull back for Coutinho's early effort, some wonderful touches/passes, positioning, setting himself up for his late chance) but the same problem EVERY time. Finishing. Should have got at least one and if he'd had a clinical night we'd have run away with it. I don't want to berate him too much as he had one of his better games after Sturridge and Origi came on alongside him but he had to score.
Sturridge was a breath of fresh air and very unlucky not to score in extra time. Terrorised the defenders by running at them, something we've not done enough of recently, pace and movement causing all sorts of problems. If he stays fit from now we can finish this season strongly.
Origi was rusty too but looked good, won more aerial/long ball challenges than Benteke and look threatening down the left. Still a raw player but a great asset for Liverpool.
Milner didn't have time to make much of an impact. Brought on to keep things tidy and acquitted himself at that task. We looked more comfortable after he added freshness to the midfield, then ironically conceded anyway.

sideshowme · « **Reply #1051 on:** February 10, 2016, 02:07:36 pm »

if you ever want an insight into the power TV has to shape the football narrative, look to the director's choice of shots of lucas looking forlorn after the final whistle, and then read the first few pages of this post-match thread.

RainbowFlick · « **Reply #1052 on:** February 10, 2016, 02:15:14 pm »

Quote from: leivapool on February 10, 2016, 11:37:07 am

re Ibe, he will have massively reduced game time now given that Coutinho, Origi and Sturridge are back and are now basically in 2 comps, assuming we do OK in the EL. His form has been poor, he's not going to get in the team on merit now we finally have attacking options.

He'd be quality off the bench. I think the few times he's been a sub, he's seemed lively.

PhilV · « **Reply #1053 on:** February 10, 2016, 02:18:06 pm »

Quote from: Sangria on February 10, 2016, 01:30:41 pm

Moreno is pretty decent at running into space with the ball at his feet. If his LB spot gets occupied, I wonder if it's worth using him as a forward with a simple remit of getting the ball forward as quickly as possible before laying it off or having a belt.

Why not, worked for Gareth Bale pretty well...

Oddball · « **Reply #1054 on:** February 10, 2016, 03:12:01 pm »

Quote from: Fordy on February 10, 2016, 08:33:19 am

Shocked Ward didn't play myself.

Absolutely. I cannot see the logic of recalling the lad back when he is getting regular first team football. He should have been playing the cup games, as Bogdan was. Unless something has happened at training, as in he isnt as good as we thought he was? I dunno.

redprodigal · « **Reply #1055 on:** February 10, 2016, 03:21:37 pm »

Quote from: groove on February 10, 2016, 01:29:30 pm

- Like I said, if Smith's quicker then fair enough, I hadn't noticed it. If he can take advantage of that and provide coverage for gaps like Moreno does, especially on the recovery, and take advantage of it in terms of pressing/closing down long distances quickly then fantastic.
- Crossing is a minor win for Smith, really, unless Benteke starts, obviously. I'm not really arsed about that, crossing is overrated in our first choice team. I'd rather we worked the ball to the feet of Sturridge and Firmino inside and then had movement around them. When we have players that can create of intricate balls around the corner, 1-2s and through balls then we play to that strength. I think Moreno is better at this stuff, his close control and passing in tight areas is snappier.
- Smith has brain farts. Come on, we all saw his debut and we all saw him tuck in too far in last night and give himself no chance vs the scorer. The reason it isn't too apparent yet is because he hasn't had the playing time of Moreno for those to show up in the same number.
- Smith does deserve a chance over Moreno, yes. But it's close. People are too black and white in their thinking here and struggle with the fact that this a close match up right now. I'd give him a league game or two, but probably not the next one after he played 120 minutes last night.

Fair enough but when I say crossing I don't necessarily mean high crosses to a big centre forward, I mean crossing in general when he gets down the line and puts dangerous balls across.
Regarding his debut I think it's a bit unfair judging a 19 year old who was brought on as a left winger for 30 mins against Chelsea away.

tubby · « **Reply #1056 on:** February 10, 2016, 03:25:41 pm »

Smith's crossing is way ahead of Moreno's, Smith actually picks people out, Moreno just fires the ball across.

Rush 82 · « **Reply #1057 on:** February 10, 2016, 03:33:26 pm »

This truly was a game we didn't deserve to lose.

Oh, and can that sniper who kept taking out the WH players please be sent to next Olympics - he's a dead cert for gold - never seen so many big lads keel over so quickly as I did last night.

KillieRed · « **Reply #1058 on:** February 10, 2016, 04:16:34 pm »

Quote from: Rush 82 on February 10, 2016, 03:33:26 pm

This truly was a game we didn't deserve to lose.

Oh, and can that sniper who kept taking out the WH players please be sent to next Olympics - he's a dead cert for gold - never seen so many big lads keel over so quickly as I did last night.

Yep, but Valencia was utterly crippled in one challenge, he needed extensive treatment and just about hobbled off, only to make a superhuman effort to come back on and be taken out by that sniper again and allow the ref to set up the winning goal. The poor lamb.

Further action should be taken against our rough-housers and our sniper.

Anfield89 · « **Reply #1059 on:** February 10, 2016, 04:25:23 pm »

Quote from: KillieRed on February 10, 2016, 04:16:34 pm

Yep, but Valencia was utterly crippled in one challenge, he needed extensive treatment and just about hobbled off, only to make a superhuman effort to come back on and be taken out by that sniper again and allow the ref to set up the winning goal. The poor lamb.

Further action should be taken against our rough-housers and our sniper.

Same sniper hit Sturridge a few times.

fowlermagic · « **Reply #1060 on:** February 10, 2016, 04:34:43 pm »

What I saw of the game I thought we did well as when I saw that lineup I thought West Ham were going to murder that backline but we held our own. Could have n should have tied up the game and there was plenty of positives to take out of it as we looked a lot more fluid in our attack. Even Benteke looked handy and of course today he will be getting the brunt of the flak & rightly so as a top striker should be bagging those chances....if he was getting a regular run in the team. That's the issue really as no striker will be banging them in if they get a start every 3 or 4 games and like last night they wil be rusty in front of goal which he, Sturridge & Origi all were. The major plus is they were showing great movement and we had a lot more presence in the box than normal. I cant wait to see them all flying it when match sharp esp with Coutinho pulling the strings.

We are out, good luck to West Ham as they seem to have the beating of us right now esp when fielding the second string 11 pretty much who really did themselves proud. There is several of them that should be getting starts this weekend in the league.

Pistolero · « **Reply #1061 on:** February 10, 2016, 04:39:24 pm »

Quote from: sideshowme on February 10, 2016, 02:07:36 pm

if you ever want an insight into the power TV has to shape the football narrative, look to the director's choice of shots of lucas looking forlorn after the final whistle, and then read the first few pages of this post-match thread.

complete and utter nonsense...

Alf Garnett! · « **Reply #1062 on:** February 10, 2016, 05:05:31 pm »

Cant believe how much crying west hams fans did during that game.

kasperoff · « **Reply #1063 on:** February 10, 2016, 05:29:21 pm »

Smith, Ilori, Stewart and Chiravella all deserve to be starting in the next few games. Lallana, Millner, Sakho, Henderson, Can and Moreno have done nothing recently and simply haven't earned their place.

the_red_pill · « **Reply #1064 on:** February 10, 2016, 05:48:32 pm »

Quote from: EstonianRed on February 10, 2016, 01:04:36 pm

Shit that we lost like that.

But really am proud of the team.

And NO, it was not the "same shit, new game". We really showed character this time. Really happy about Stewart, Smith and Chirivella. Would like all of them to get decent run's at the league. Worried about Smith defending though, but going forward he is superb.

Really want us to play more youngsters in the league now and focus on EL and COC final. There really isnt nothing for us in the league besides pride.

Ilori?

the_red_pill · « **Reply #1065 on:** February 10, 2016, 05:58:14 pm »

Quote from: Bakez0151 on February 10, 2016, 01:24:04 pm

I'm not sure for certain if Smith is the quickest player in our squad, but he utilises his pace the best. When it comes to making those runs down the line, he's much better than Clyne, Ibe or Moreno, from what we've seen.

Like I remarked last night- a lot like Zabaletta. He runs into that space on the edge of the 6-yard area and just a few inches from the goalline that Zabaletta runs into and from whom City scored soo many goals from last season. The pace with which he runs into that space before receiving it- like Zabaletta makes him hard to pick up.

We just wasted the cutbacks/crosses/passes he laid onto us from there. We could've had 2 easily from those. Unfortunately- by the time Sturridge came on- who would've buried at least one of those, he ran out of steam/was pinned back.

We're so wasteful, it's unbelievable: but THAT tendency of his to run into the egde of the 6 yard area and lay it of is going to provide many goals for us.

JUST TO BE CLEAR, since people have a tendency to take the piss out of comaprisons- I'M NOT SAYING HE'S AS GOOD AS ZABALETTA!

WorldChampions · « **Reply #1066 on:** February 10, 2016, 06:05:54 pm »

Watching back that first goal again makes my blood boil. Four or five players aren't marking anyone whilst two are unmarked at the back stick. Ball watching much?

the_red_pill · « **Reply #1067 on:** February 10, 2016, 06:07:48 pm »

Quote from: bathoz on February 10, 2016, 01:20:39 pm

It changed. Early on he was hitting a mix of brilliant, and misplaces fast, flat passes out of defence. A few went wrong, and then he just started going: screw it, get rid. Granted, that might have coincided with us conceding the midfield in the second half.

Other though, early on Lucas was trying to shepherd the ball back to Mignolet, when he didn't move. There was also a moment shortly afterwards when Lucas gave Migs a backpass which he dawdled on and was almost closed down by two players. After that, you could see him going 'nope, messing around with him anymore' and playing around assuming Mignolet would stuff it up.

Yeah I saw that. Just shows the effect Mignolet currently has on the defense. New centreback pairing learned quickly.

the_red_pill · « **Reply #1068 on:** February 10, 2016, 06:11:03 pm »

Quote from: Snoopy29 on February 10, 2016, 01:36:59 pm

I agree what Didi said.

Our defenders lool like children infront of those beasts.
Liverpoolneed another Hyypia.

We were extremely lucky that West Ham didn't use Carrol more.

Couldn't understand why they didn't use him more. Could've finished us off in less than a quarter when he came on.

mickeydocs · « **Reply #1069 on:** February 10, 2016, 06:40:42 pm »

Really enjoyed last night's game. The result was disappointing as is exiting the FA cup.
However there were alot of positives.

Countinho and Sturridge showing us what we have been missing... two of the best players in the league.
Ilori - looks like he might just have a future.
Lucas - now the ultimate utility player.
The kids - Chiravella, Stewart really good - Brad Smith, some dodgy defending but a masterclass in overlapping as a fullback. Texeira - good run out, just needs a little more belief.
Jon Flanagan - still a little short of the pace but gives us a no-nonsense option at left and right full back.

sempi · « **Reply #1070 on:** February 10, 2016, 06:40:43 pm »

Quote from: the_red_pill on February 10, 2016, 06:11:03 pm

We were extremely lucky that West Ham didn't use Carrol more.

Couldn't understand why they didn't use him more. Could've finished us off in less than a quarter when he came on.

But they didn't! and he ended up dropping deeper and deeper to get the ball.

CrasherKid79 · « **Reply #1071 on:** February 10, 2016, 06:46:36 pm »

Poor old Flanno. We want to ease the lad back slowly and drops on 2 games where he has to play 120 minutes.

Mutton Geoff · « **Reply #1072 on:** February 10, 2016, 07:27:55 pm »

Simply proud of the Kids last night, a few of them might save us a few million in the summer. Stewart was simply solid and needs a few games, Smith should be given his chance and i thought Lucas did well at the back, he would make a good sweeper if we still used them these days

Black Bull Nova · « **Reply #1073 on:** February 10, 2016, 07:43:04 pm »

1980s rank of importance

European Cup
League
FA Cup
Uefa Cup
Cup winners cup
League Cup

2013/14 rank of importance

Champions league
Premier league
FA Cup
League Cup
Europa League

2015/16 rank of importance
Champions league
Premier league
Europa league (CL place)
FA cup
League cup

Feb 9th rank of importance to Liverpool
1. League cup (silver + europa)
2. Europa League (most likely CL plus silver)
3. Premier league (no silver, dignity now, finishing above Everton and United and europa if 1 goes wrong)
4. FA cup (silver in the distance, slightly better than 1 but harder)

Always sad to go out but less so than normal given the injuries, committments and priorities. Played well, went out with dignity, could have been dumped out with a full strength side by the likes of Southend so could have been worse.

fowlermagic · « **Reply #1074 on:** February 10, 2016, 09:38:06 pm »

I wonder will Lucas get another run out as a central defender as thought he showed himself to be quite competent in the role. If none of other defenders don't want to dominate aka Tony Adams style and feel they are more footballers than defenders then I think a footballer like Lucas might be a better bet. Ok he might not the king of the aerials but lets be honest he can at least judge the flight of the ball better than some.

stockdam · « **Reply #1075 on:** February 10, 2016, 10:06:12 pm »

Quote from: fowlermagic on February 10, 2016, 09:38:06 pm

I wonder will Lucas get another run out as a central defender as thought he showed himself to be quite competent in the role. If none of other defenders don't want to dominate aka Tony Adams style and feel they are more footballers than defenders then I think a footballer like Lucas might be a better bet. Ok he might not the king of the aerials but lets be honest he can at least judge the flight of the ball better than some.

I was very surprised at Lucas as he was winning headers that I thought he shouldn't have. There's a knack in being able to push an attacker at the right time and get away with it (usually) so maybe that's his "trick". I would like some height at corners but maybe a good partner would complement him

smurfinaus · « **Reply #1076 on:** February 10, 2016, 10:09:18 pm »

Quote from: tubby on February 10, 2016, 03:25:41 pm

Smith's crossing is way ahead of Moreno's, Smith actually picks people out, Moreno just fires the ball across.

Also the quality of the delivery as well. Even if we dont play Benteke, it is a very good option to have a wide player who can put a good delivery in (hendo and milner seem to be the only two others in the team who can cross a ball decently). IMHO Smith is a bit quicker than Moreno - hopefully we play smith in a few more games , especially if it turns out he is more solid in defense

legendkiller · « **Reply #1077 on:** February 10, 2016, 10:41:34 pm »

Comparing Moreno and Smith pace , well Smith looks faster over those 50 yard dashes that happen maybe once twice a game . Moreno looks quicker over those short 5 to ten yards bursts which happens suppose 50 times a match . Personally dont think Smith is ready yet defensively even though I wouldn't be a big fan of Moreno . Flanno as Lb for the rest of the year is what I would go with .

Ilori did well but saying he was assured on the ball is a bit of a stretch plus he didnt get much purchase on his headers but hey at least he jumped for them not like Sakho who loves to wrestle a CF instead of throwing himself into a header .

How weird was it when we looked dangerous for those few corners and then Milners attempts at the end was the tripe that has been happening since Aspas one .

Thought Phil could of helped Smith a little vocally when he wasnt touch tight at the far post for the opner .