Topic: Darren Burgess leaves LFC

[Big T]

Not sure what to make of Big T there? Sounds like a personal bias to be honest. From all reports, the approach the now disbanded team was a step ahead of other teams at the time. If it's more commonplace now though, then perhaps it's not worth the big money they no doubt were on.

Personal bias - not at all, just trying to highlight the spin that comes out of the club at times.  The reports that informed you that we are ahead of the game sports science wise would be from Brukner, Burgess etc.  We were never ahead of other teams we just caught up, for example Middlesbrough 2006 were using GPS the next season they were salivary testing on a regular basis.  Nothing  against Darren Burgess or Dr Brukner more a pop at Purslow.     

[The 5th Benitle]

more a pop at Purslow.     

Excellent. Can never have too many of those.

[Mutton Geoff]

bloody hell i dislike FSG's methods more than most , but all this over a gnashing of teeth over just a  fitness coach  they are two a penny down our local leisure centre 

[The G in Gerrard]

Probably the same message Wenger got when he got Pat Rice as assistant , or the message Mourinho got when he had Clarke as his assistant or Rafa got with Lee or Ged with Thommo . The message that what is needed is evolution not revolution. A year ago Coyle was the flavour of the month would you let him make fundamental changes to a Club now?

Not all managers are made to keep the staff they have. We've made our choice let him do what he thinks is right.

[Red Razor]

Breaking news..new manager implements his ideas by hireing trusted former colleagues who understand his goals and methods for attaining them..the shock fucking horror of it..my god.

[Paul-LFC]

Why is being swansea something to aspire to? We're signing players from Swansea, taking on staff from swansea, trying to play more like swansea and every time the manager speaks its 'we did it like this at swansea' or 'vorm does it this way'.

Swansea are a team that will be happy to stay in the league this season. I understand Rodgers is working within his comfort zone but it's beginning to seem a little small time. I would not be at all surprised if our next 2 signings were vorm and Williams.

We've signed one player from Swansea. One. Brendan's philosophy on how to play is his philosophy, not Swansea's. Find me where he's said "Vorm does it this way", he's hardly mentioned Swansea from what I've seen, more his entire career, vision and philosophy.

So what was your point again? Because "we want to be like Swansea" is ridiculous, not to mention not true.

[Big T]

Do you work in the medical field? Because someone here who does specialise in that field wasn't too impressed with Waller.

Sort of mate yes. 

As I don't know why the said person wasn't impressed with Waller's work it's difficult for me to comment.  Please don't think I have come on here as a Waller fan - not true.  I'm sure Waller has his faults and has made mistakes just like everyone does.

[twalsh]

Breaking news..new manager implements his ideas by hireing trusted former colleagues who understand his goals and methods for attaining them..the shock fucking horror of it..my god.

This!

He's been given the job, with that must comes trust. If BR wants to bring in people he knows can work effectively with him then so be it. I should not matter whether he is proven or not.

[Guz-kop]

Probably the same message Wenger got when he got Pat Rice as assistant , or the message Mourinho got when he had Clarke as his assistant or Rafa got with Lee or Ged with Thommo . The message that what is needed is evolution not revolution. A year ago Coyle was the flavour of the month would you let him make fundamental changes to a Club now?

Rafa got with Lee? Sammy Lee went full time with England before our season started in 2004. The only link in the coaching staff to the previous regime was Alex Miller who was a scout who Rafa gave a place to on the coaching bench. Benitez like Houllier before him tried to make changes to every single aspect of the club he could get his hands on to mould it in the way he wanted to and rightly so. Revolution was an understatement. Gutted we brought in so many of "Rafa's mates" in Pako, Paco and Jose Ochoterena. Gutted also that Rafa was too inexperienced to look outside La Liga for new players. The shithouse. Parry should've been there stopping it.

You don't rate Rodgers, you don't trust him, you wanted a director of football. We get it.

[IndianRed]

Probably the same message Wenger got when he got Pat Rice as assistant , or the message Mourinho got when he had Clarke as his assistant or Rafa got with Lee or Ged with Thommo . The message that what is needed is evolution not revolution. A year ago Coyle was the flavour of the month would you let him make fundamental changes to a Club now?

Distorting facts to make your point no? It has always been Mourinho's philosophy of retaining the previous assistant managers at the clubs he's worked at in order to help him gain the trust of the dressing room quicker. He did it at Porto, he did it at Chelsea, he did it at Inter and he did it at Madrid. To say that Clarke was foisted on him by Abramovich is baffling, especially when you take into account that Mourinho's inflated ego would have never let Roman dictate matters to him. Indeed, all it took was one strop by Roman when Mourinho wouldn't include Shevchenko in his line-up that forced Mourinho to quit his post at Chelsea.

As for Sammy Lee and Rafa, you seem to be forgetting all those years spent with Paco Ayestaran before Rafa bummed him off and got his Yes-man in Lee. Sammy Lee was never forced upon Rafa. Rafa felt so hurt by Paco's "betrayal" that he made sure his next assistant manager would be someone who would always toe the line he set. In any case, when Rafa came in, he got rid of Thommo straightaway, and got his entire backroom team from Valencia to assist him. There is nothing wrong with a manager getting his own backroom team to assist him. At the end of the day, he lives and dies by his decisions. The last thing you need is for the people he depends on for valuable inputs to be people he doesn't enjoy working with.

[Fuzion6]

Rafa got with Lee? Sammy Lee went full time with England before our season started in 2004. The only link in the coaching staff to the previous regime was Alex Miller who was a scout who Rafa gave a place to on the coaching bench. Benitez like Houllier before him tried to make changes to every single aspect of the club he could get his hands on to mould it in the way he wanted to and rightly so. Revolution was an understatement. Gutted we brought in so many of "Rafa's mates" in Pako, Paco and Jose Ochoterena. Gutted also that Rafa was too inexperienced to look outside La Liga for new players. The shithouse. Parry should've been there stopping it.

You don't rate Rodgers, you don't trust him, you wanted a director of football. We get it.

Can't compare to Rafa - he was a world renowned manager who had just won the barca/Madrid dominated la liga twice and was entering a club in major need of modernising. Rodgers doesn't have that level of experience or success and has inherited a club with what seemed a semi decent set up with regards sports science and a scouting network (well comolli did bring in a lot of scouts and some framework). My fear is we have gone all in with Rodgers and Im nervous bout it. Fair play to FSG - they really are letting him call the shots ad Rodgers will live or die by his decisions

[The 5th Benitle]

Distorting facts to make your point no?

As did you.
 
A note to all: It never ceases to amaze me how any thread, on any topic can become a Rafa thread with the same old circular arguments.
 
Please don't let this become another

[IndianRed]

As did you.
 
A note to all: It never ceases to amaze me how any thread, on any topic can become a Rafa thread with the same old circular arguments.
 
Please don't let this become another

In that case, lets just stick to what we know: that we're replacing one competent fitness coach with another one. All this hue and cry for Darren Burgess, with the greatest of respect for what he did for us, is simply ridiculous.

[FoynesLFC]

Good Luck.

[Cid]

bloody hell i dislike FSG's methods more than most , but all this over a gnashing of teeth over just a  fitness coach  they are two a penny down our local leisure centre 

It's not just a fitness coach though is it.  It's a systematic overhaul of the entire club from top to bottom.  And it's not being done for some FSG master plan, or any long term strategic vision, it's all being done at the behest of an unproven and inexperienced manager.  Where is this structure that will outlast any single manager? Where is this new style of club, this european approach?  In the midst of all the FSG flip-flopping it seems the new plan is to hope Rodgers works out and keep him here for the next 20 years?

I hope it works, I hope we turn into the next dortmund and Rodgers grows to love us so much no-one else can turn his head but we're playing some big fucking odds.  After years of mismanagement, poor spending and systematic failure this final gambit could allow us to compete again, but it could just as easily be the nail in the coffin and put us out of the top tier for the next decade.

[StevenLFC]

Pretty much none of us having a fucking clue what the sports science or medical guys do

I do! There's not much difference between the sport science set ups at all the top clubs nowadays, they all read the same articles and studies and base their methods around these. Brukner is known in the field to big himself up a bit, a tutor of mine at uni told me not to reference his work when writing my dissertation.

[rossipersempre]

Purslow brought Brukner and the other Aussie staff after allowing Rafa to sack Dr Waller.  If you compare the injury rates under Dr Waller vs Dr Brukner I think you'll find Dr Wallers were slightly better.  I think Dr Waller would have loved to have introduced what Brukner/Burgess did, but Rafa wasn't interested basically Waller worked with his hands tied. Liverpool had a top class medical department when Dr Waller was in charge only difference being he wasn't into self promotion unlike are friends from Oz.

WTF?! Is that you Mark?

I can only assume that Rossi hasn't responded to this yet because he's compiling the mother of all posts to dispute your praise of Waller

I wish mate, only just logged on after a long day of dealing with lots of shite, only to read 50 shades of shite here about Mark "Doc" Waller

Right, Waller, where do we begin?

- Judas Welsh rat's injury problems, routinely gave him bolus injections of painkilling anti-inflammatories, masking the real underlying issues and putting Owen on a course for premature career decline, now showing once every 2 months in a Stoke City shirt. "But....but.....well.....Gerard y'know...he wanted him to play" is what he'd splutter. Waller was the consummate 'yes' man in that respect and set the tone for medico-managerial relations thereafter;

- Oversaw Gerrard's health for years, still sees him in Dubai apparently when visiting, family friend/GP by all accounts, the same Gerrard who's had a injury-free career, errr;

- Credit falsely attributed to him for "saving Houllier's life" - truth was it was Dave Galley the physio who spotted Ged wasn't right and called the ambulance.

- Credit falsely attributed to him for "saving Djib Cisse's leg" - truth was it was down to the Blackburn doc on duty who happened to be a consultant orthopaedic surgeon

- Kewell. Plagued by injuries at Liverpool. Goes to Turkey and sails through 2 seasons fully fit, berating "Liverpool's staff" for shitty treatment;

- Agger's MT fracture and Waller's inappropriate referral to a non-specialist and subsequent procrastination, niot to mention the amateur hour "special boots" recommendation which cost him/us half a season. Agger was only diagnosed with bone 'floater' and surgically fixed by Brøndby's doc;

- Horse placenta endorsement, sending players to some Serbian crone then shrugging when they relapsed a week later;

- Signed-off Degen's medical;

- Signed-off Aquilani's medical;

- Torres' knee; oversaw rehab after Cugat's surgery and lied to Rafa which basically caused re-injury and fucked him for Atletico matches in Europa, and the World Cup almost. Torres was fucking livid at the club and was the key reason he wanted to leave. Rafa rightly blamed Waller;

That's just off the top of my head.

[rossipersempre]

I don't think anyone is doing that Al, just pointing out that Driscoll's CV is pretty impressive and he has worked the same role as Burgess had. It goes against how Rossi would like make him sound, which is some fella down the Penlan Legion who Rodgers had a game of pool with once.

My main issue with Mayo's post was the snidey inference that Burgess wasn't all he was cracked up to be. The reference to Brendan's mates (maybe I should have said 'Rodger's replacements?) was incidental.

But I guess you'd smart at the boyo reference, you being from the Valleys and all 

[macca888]

M'laud, I present the prosecution case that Mr Burgess was guilty of not being good at his job.


Exhibit A - Photograph of Joe Cole taken 42 seconds after the start of a game





Exhibit B - Photograph of Charlie Adam taking a breather by leaning on the post BEFORE kick off





Exhibit C - Photograph of Raheem Sterling, clearly unhappy with Burgess's methods

[kevin87]

Giving Rodgers so much control is either in the fullness of time likely to be judged as genius or insanity . What happened to managers earning the right to shape a Club of LFCs stature.

If you are judging things on the fans early perceptions then this time last year Enrique was the 2nd coming of Roberto Carlos.

Al, I think your overlooking something. Darren burgess could have stayed, except he chose to come home to an AFL team in Adelaide... Where his family is.., and where he has worked before.... It's not all FSG and Rodgers on this one mate

[Eeyore]

Burgess and Segura were both annexed by the Club. There are two questions that raises for me.

Is there anyone at the Club who has the experience or football acumen. We have very little football nous in the boardroom and Rodgers certainly didn't have responsibility for making structural and staffing changes at Swansea.

2. If you somehow think it is right for Rodgers to make such decisions then shouldnt he actually of tried working with Burgess before he decided to bring in Driscoll

[Frank.]

How the fuck is John Achterberg still the fucking first team Goalkeeping coach?

Fuck me.

[Bob Loblaw]

Burgess and Segura were both annexed by the Club. There are two questions that raises for me.

Is there anyone at the Club who has the experience or football acumen. We have very little football nous in the boardroom and Rodgers certainly didn't have responsibility for making structural and staffing changes at Swansea.

2. If you somehow think it is right for Rodgers to make such decisions then shouldnt he actually of tried working with Burgess before he decided to bring in Driscoll

So basically you have a problem with people making any decisions at the club? That's rational.

[Eeyore]

So basically you have a problem with people making any decisions at the club? That's rational.

For me you either get an experienced manager with a proven track record or you negate the risks associated with a young Coach by putting in place a structure .

The irony is that the under FSG the two experienced managers have had a DoF whilst the young pup has been given carte Blanche to make structural changes.

[And CouldHe Play!]

How the fuck is John Achterberg still the fucking first team Goalkeeping coach?

Fuck me.

What's he done?

[kevin87]

Burgess and Segura were both annexed by the Club. There are two questions that raises for me.

Is there anyone at the Club who has the experience or football acumen. We have very little football nous in the boardroom and Rodgers certainly didn't have responsibility for making structural and staffing changes at Swansea.

2. If you somehow think it is right for Rodgers to make such decisions then shouldnt he actually of tried working with Burgess before he decided to bring in Driscoll

Al... Burgess was not fired by the club...he has chosen to take another job as his role changed slightly. Where he is going has been in the pipework for months.....months man!

segura was not annexed either. He was promised a promotion which never came to light, he is moving on, as he does not want to stay a youth team coach all his life...which is understandable.

[subroc]

So we bring in one of the world's best sports science teams in order to build a good infrastructure that will grow stronger and not change every time a new manager comes in, and then one season later we dismantle the whole thing because the new manager wants his own man?

It is disturbing that FSG is so easily seduced by Rodgers to accept his view of reality instead of sticking to their principles. Rodgers should be told in no uncertain terms to work within the system instead of having his way. What has he done or won to merit such trust? What happens if he has to be sacked at some point - then the whole edifice must be torn down and rebuilt again!

As owners who supposedly are smarter and more innovative to overcome the greater purse of other owners, they are showing an alarming weakness of conviction and inconsistency...

[farawayred]

M'laud, I present the prosecution case that Mr Burgess was guilty of not being good at his job.

Exhibit A - Photograph of Joe Cole taken 42 seconds after the start of a game

Exhibit B - Photograph of Charlie Adam taking a breather by leaning on the post BEFORE kick off

Exhibit C - Photograph of Raheem Sterling, clearly unhappy with Burgess's methods

Your Honor, the Prosecution brought forward the most blatant case of evidence fabrication. It is clear to everyone that the images were taken from completely unrelated episodes of the said players lives:

Exhibit A Joe Cole (who I forgot existed) has just ran the equivalent of a marathon running away from fans with pitchforks and lit torches who just learned how much he's earning per week without kicking a ball.

Exhibit B Mr. Adam is not taking a breather as the Prosecution stated. As you can see, he is leaning on the goal post for a corner kick and he's thinking "My corners alone, that you take from over there, are worth £10m..."

Exhibit C Well, the Defense actually agrees with the Prosecution on this one...

[shelovesyou]

So we bring in one of the world's best sports science teams in order to build a good infrastructure that will grow stronger and not change every time a new manager comes in, and then one season later we dismantle the whole thing because the new manager wants his own man?

It is disturbing that FSG is so easily seduced by Rodgers to accept his view of reality instead of sticking to their principles. Rodgers should be told in no uncertain terms to work within the system instead of having his way. What has he done or won to merit such trust?

He's the manager of Liverpool Football Club.

[farawayred]

He's the manager of Liverpool Football Club.

Well, by the extension of that logic, every new manager will have the right to overhaul the club? I don't get it. Subroc has a point.

[RedTriumph]

Distorting facts to make your point no? It has always been Mourinho's philosophy of retaining the previous assistant managers at the clubs he's worked at in order to help him gain the trust of the dressing room quicker. He did it at Porto, he did it at Chelsea, he did it at Inter and he did it at Madrid. To say that Clarke was foisted on him by Abramovich is baffling, especially when you take into account that Mourinho's inflated ego would have never let Roman dictate matters to him. Indeed, all it took was one strop by Roman when Mourinho wouldn't include Shevchenko in his line-up that forced Mourinho to quit his post at Chelsea

This won't have been a decision that would have been taken lightly. I imagine that Rodgers would have obtained Stevie's opinion (and maybe Carra's, maybe more) on how the changes would affect the mentality of the squad. It's a shame to see familiar faces leave but it may just work well in the long run.

[Arcadian]

So to illustrate for those whose eyes have glazed over a little, if I turn up with 6% body fat the resting heart rate of lance Armstrong and the VO2 max of Michael Phelps, but I don't understand how to switch from the standard 4-3-3 to a midfield diamond, then I'm fit I'm just not a very intelligent footballer. Likewise, I can have the tactical savvy of Van Gaal but if I've been smoking 30 tabs a day and I'm 2 stone overweight, then I'm not fit. Or I can have 6% body fat,the resting heart rate of lance Armstrong and the VO2 max of Michael Phelps the courage of a lion, and the tactical savvy of Van Gaal, but if I think it's beneath me to press a full back when it doesn't suit me or I hog the ball too often when others are better positioned, then I'm not driven to succeed.

Tweaked it a bit mate.

[red_dub]

Rodgers is the manager and should be aloud to make calls on coaching staff like our previous managers have done. However my issue is that he seems to be getting jobs for the lads and not exactly bringing in the best in the business or someone who has a bit of experience. Pep and borello and co where brought in because they had experience and a track record, the medical staff was brought in for the same reason. Lee and thomo where hired for there experience and club knowledge. Rodgers appointments are different as they are people who he has worked with or knows. Question is do they bring enough to the table with experience and knowledge?

[Veinticinco de Mayo]

This site is not entertaining a potentially libellous competition to see who can charge various ex members of our medical staff with the most allegations of professional misconduct or incompetence.