Author Topic: Fernando Torres: 21st Century Boy (Read 17234 times)

xerxes1 · « **Reply #120 on:** February 2, 2011, 05:22:43 pm »

Quote from: mercury on February 2, 2011, 05:15:51 pm

The most heart breaking part is to see the squad, which Rafa laboured to put together and beat the hell out of the Mancs, Real and the likes, now in almost total disarray. Now we have to rebuild all over again. The waste is freaking criminal.

THAT summer, so close. Alonso stays, Barry joins us, perhaps one other signing...............................................

mickeydocs · « **Reply #121 on:** February 2, 2011, 05:24:06 pm »

Can we all just get over Torres?

He is a great player and will score alot of goals for Chelsea over the next 2-3 seasons. He will also be injured quite a bit.
He was a great player for Liverpool and could probably have gotten close to the scoring records of Kenny and Rush.
He is now gone.
Our new task is to stop him scoring against us.
We have replaced him with a potentiall great partnership, and at the very least with individuals that can provide 15 goals plus each per season, more goals than Torres was capable of scoring for us.
The end.

Sasquatch · « **Reply #122 on:** February 2, 2011, 05:25:24 pm »

Quote from: mickeydocs on February 2, 2011, 05:24:06 pm

Can we all just get over Torres?

It'll take a while and probably won't abate much until Sunday's game is a distant memory. You'll have to lump it for a while longer.

Something Else · « **Reply #123 on:** February 2, 2011, 05:26:05 pm »

Quote from: PeterGriffin on February 2, 2011, 04:50:52 pm

This coming from the fans that want abramovich out and ancelotti out after a bad result against sunderland?? Im sure there is pics somewhere of the things hung up outside Chelsea training ground

exiledinyorkshire · « **Reply #124 on:** February 2, 2011, 05:28:21 pm »

Phase 3 of Fernandos career is now on track.

His first phase was to become the striker and captain of his boyhood club. Every boys dream. During that period he became a professional sportsman, and started to think like one. Phase two of his career needed looking at, and i genuinely believe that heart wrenchingly he decided it wasn't at Atletico. So where to go, well he wanted his next club to mean something as well as give him the opportunity he was missing in Madrid. And Liverpool is all about HISTORY and full of meaning and romance, plus we looked like we could easily be on the verge of winning everything again, and the spanish influence was immense and Rafa would make him a World class Striker. So he came here and it was all rosie he felt the love he had at Atlettco and got paid a kings ransom to become truly famous wealthy and a winner.........except he won nothing and we went backwards.

Ok so phase 3 neds looking at..................Well he had all ready done the romance, the ties of loyalty broken once are not so difficult to break the second time. The professional adult, rational and calculating is fully functioning now, he is no longer "el nino" the kid, hes a man....................so phase 3, fuck the romance fuck the history, none of it is important to the supreme individualist. Money and medals, and cold hard rational is all he is now looking for.................no longer does he need to be idolised, he no longer needs the love, its now all about money and medals, so Chelsea it is pefectly rational, and pefectly reasonable.

I also fully expect phase four to be a return to Atletico, once he absolutely takes the piss out of Chelsea and runs his contract down.

scatman · « **Reply #125 on:** February 2, 2011, 05:31:14 pm »

Quote from: xerxes1 on February 2, 2011, 05:22:43 pm

THAT summer, so close. Alonso stays, Barry joins us, perhaps one other signing...............................................

Don't remind me, i have nightmares about how that team has been dissected, it's a real dark time in our clubs history.

cammier · « **Reply #126 on:** February 2, 2011, 05:36:19 pm »

Just seen David Fairclough on SSN and I agree with him that we have had the best out of Torres, he's lost a yard of pace and we have cashed in on a fading talent. Not sure about Carroll, he's had half a season in the Prem and looks like he can develop into something special and may yet show that he is worth the crazy money we paid for him. I just hope and pray that Torres has a real mare against us on Sunday.

Something Else · « **Reply #127 on:** February 2, 2011, 05:38:17 pm »

I reckon Torres wont start, he may be on the bench, but i would not be suprised if he has "a niggle and they dont risk him..."

RedVash · « **Reply #128 on:** February 2, 2011, 05:49:04 pm »

it's funny to see how el Ninny disappeared from our official site ahah!

Dagger/Molby · « **Reply #129 on:** February 2, 2011, 05:53:12 pm »

Torres out - Carroll and Suarez in at almost the same price - i actually think we look much stronger now with these two mates - cant wait to see them in action together... They will work for the team!!

Solomon Grundy · « **Reply #130 on:** February 2, 2011, 05:53:20 pm »

Quote from: Something Else on February 2, 2011, 05:38:17 pm

I reckon Torres wont start, he may be on the bench, but i would not be suprised if he has "a niggle and they dont risk him..."

He'll start mate. Roman will make sure his does. Just like he did when Shevchenko signed for them. Ancelotti had nothing to do with Fernando Torres signing for Chelsea.

berryLFC91 · « **Reply #131 on:** February 2, 2011, 05:55:03 pm »

And look what happened to Shevcenko

Timbo's Goals · « **Reply #132 on:** February 2, 2011, 07:05:24 pm »

Quote from: drpepe on February 2, 2011, 10:43:56 am

I seem to be in a very small minority in not begrudging the fella at all for wanting to move to chelsea. The way he did it just before the trannie window was pretty shite but imo the reaction has been ridiculous:

1. All this talk of chelsea being in decline and us being better prospects under new owners is clearly hugely overstated - they are PL champions and have have just spent 70m quid in January, whilst we have spent ~2-5m. . Face facts - chelsea are clearly at least a level or 2 above us and have been a far superior side for 80% of the time that torres has been at the club.

2.I don't see anythin he has said that is a "taunt" to liverpool (unless anyone can point me to quotes to demonstrate otherwise). The response to his words looks largely to have been misinterpretation, over-sensitivity or willful shit-stirring.

3. It can be strongly argued that it was the club that committed the first 'betrayal' (too strong a word, but used here in the context of the language for current tor-res threads...) by breaking promises of investment apparently made to the fella as they did i'm sure to rafa, the rest of the squad etc etc). Hence the club is/has been going downhill for 2 years - losing your top players is the kind of thing that just happens (Kewell to LFC for example)

4. One of the draws of LFc for the spanish contingent was Benitez : he has gone. Why is it a surprise to anyone that the players he brought in may want to leave?

By any chance, does this opinion of yours factor in the Torres performance levels of the past 12-18 months during which time it now transpires a monumently highly paid so called professional footballer failed remotely to shoulder his responsibilities as a professional footballer and sole first team level striker for Liverpool Football Club for no other reason than he simply elected not to do so because he felt the same disillusionment all at the club and associated with it also felt [other than when it suited his self serving ambition]. And does it, moreover, take cogniscence of the fact that he actually took advantage of the good will, naievety and tolerance of Liverpudlians to whom he had pledged his commitment and allegiance on a number of well documented occasions and succeeded in masking the poverty of those performances during that period by alluding to injury recovery, management problems/decisions and teamate deficienies?

Because if it doesn't then all the remaining - shall we term them - mitigating aspects of this sordid affair which you so nobly cite as justification for Fernando's contemptuous short selling of his responsibilities count for Jack fuckin shit.

RayPhilAlan · « **Reply #133 on:** February 2, 2011, 08:42:48 pm »

Quote from: Lusty on February 2, 2011, 01:11:14 pm

Long haired Torres was boss. Short haired Torres is a stroppy shit and we're well rid of him.

But you know what both of them could do? Arrive with impeccable timing in the box having lost their marker and slam one home just when the opposition weren't ready for them. That's what they did to us on Friday. Just hoping neither of them do it on Sunday.

PIPA23 · « **Reply #134 on:** February 2, 2011, 08:53:59 pm »

Quote from: xerxes1 on February 2, 2011, 05:22:43 pm

THAT summer, so close. Alonso stays, Barry joins us, perhaps one other signing...............................................

I prefeur Lucas over Barry to be honest. If we manage to get Adam and a great winger + maybe left back, it will be enough imo..

Entropicity · « **Reply #135 on:** February 2, 2011, 08:59:08 pm »

Quote from: RedRabbit on February 2, 2011, 10:09:05 am

I can't believe I'm going to say this, but I agree with all of that. I agree with a Slysports article. Fuck me, where's the soap?!

No soap for you! Now pick up my soap!

smitalfc · « **Reply #136 on:** February 2, 2011, 10:10:41 pm »

Quote from: Timbo's Goals on February 2, 2011, 07:05:24 pm

By any chance, does this opinion of yours factor in the Torres performance levels of the past 12-18 months during which time it now transpires a monumently highly paid so called professional footballer failed remotely to shoulder his responsibilities as a professional footballer and sole first team level striker for Liverpool Football Club for no other reason than he simply elected not to do so because he felt the same disillusionment all at the club and associated with it also felt [other than when it suited his self serving ambition]. And does it, moreover, take cogniscence of the fact that he actually took advantage of the good will, naievety and tolerance of Liverpudlians to whom he had pledged his commitment and allegiance on a number of well documented occasions and succeeded in masking the poverty of those performances during that period by alluding to injury recovery, management problems/decisions and teamate deficienies?

Because if it doesn't then all the remaining - shall we term them - mitigating aspects of this sordid affair which you so nobly cite as justification for Fernando's contemptuous short selling of his responsibilities count for Jack fuckin shit.

Where is this idea that he hadn't tried for 18 months coming from? He got 22 goals in 32 starts last season despite lots of injuries. What more did you expect him to do, or what more did any other player do over the same period? What do we gain by rewriting history like this?

He may have let the club and himself down this season (although the club let itself down big time through the Hodgson debacle) and that may be reason enough to hate him, but let's not rewrite history here.

beadlehand · « **Reply #137 on:** February 2, 2011, 10:18:19 pm »

Torres scraped through his Chelsea medical because of his knee. Hence the late announcement/delay. There were genuine concerns over it. Let's face it, if you are spending £50m then it would give you a fright. Not that I care, ihope they have bought a dud.

Anyway, just passing it on. (imagine if it fell through and we were stuck with the ****)

PIPA23 · « **Reply #138 on:** February 2, 2011, 10:20:54 pm »

Quote from: Armand9 on February 2, 2011, 01:36:53 pm

I agree. People move on ffs. he sure as hell ain't thinking about you.

this

Jellies · « **Reply #139 on:** February 2, 2011, 10:22:13 pm »

Hey. We just won the third on a row. Let's focus on that and not on our previous players. What matters now is the current squad.

Timbo's Goals · « **Reply #140 on:** February 3, 2011, 01:09:37 am »

Quote from: smitalfc on February 2, 2011, 10:10:41 pm

Where is this idea that he hadn't tried for 18 months coming from? He got 22 goals in 32 starts last season despite lots of injuries. What more did you expect him to do, or what more did any other player do over the same period? What do we gain by rewriting history like this?

He may have let the club and himself down this season (although the club let itself down big time through the Hodgson debacle) and that may be reason enough to hate him, but let's not rewrite history here.

What we now know about where the player's real ambition has lain and has not lain for some considerable time informs our interpretation of what we've been witnessing with Torres over that same period. Whether it be 6,9, 12,15, 18 months or certain spells therein, we now know he has not given of his best for at least a large portion of that time. Even if some of it was genuinely down to injury or poor managerial tactics or playing staff deficiencies, the knowledge we now have about his lack of motivation and 'Liverpool' heart casts a huge cloud over the entire latter stages of his time with us. It is certainly not re-writing history. Rather it is understanding it. And it does not translate into a very nice picture of the man we all showered with such adulation. Feet of clay is the term I believe, however much you attempt to dress it up with statistics.

smitalfc · « **Reply #141 on:** February 3, 2011, 07:26:48 am »

Timbo, in a way I don't know why I'm bothering to pursue this - it doesn't matter now and we should all be looking forward, and yet:

1. We don't "know" when Torres decided to leave. There's a bunch of conflicting reports ranging from when Chelsea made their offer (spin from his agent almost certainly) to 18 months ago. Each of us has our own beliefs about it, but I don't think anyone knows for sure.

2. Over that range of time, the stats give the most reliable indicator of the player's overall performance. In this case last season a very good overall performance, this season less so.

3. Over that same time period there were games or patches of poor performance. Some were down to injury and return from injury, poor tactics, poor overall team performance, loss of form and so on
.
I am sure some of them were down to the fact that he wanted out but not in my view Enough to justify branding him unprofessional throughout that period, which is what many have sought to do. If that's not the point you were making, sorry if I've got the wrong end of the stick though.

Twelfth Man · « **Reply #142 on:** February 3, 2011, 07:30:33 am »

Quote from: beadlehand on February 2, 2011, 10:18:19 pm

Torres scraped through his Chelsea medical because of his knee. Hence the late announcement/delay. There were genuine concerns over it. Let's face it, if you are spending £50m then it would give you a fright. Not that I care, ihope they have bought a dud.

Anyway, just passing it on. (imagine if it fell through and we were stuck with the ****)

Where did you learn this from?

Twelfth Man · « **Reply #143 on:** February 3, 2011, 07:33:05 am »

Quote from: smitalfc on February 3, 2011, 07:26:48 am

Timbo, in a way I don't know why I'm bothering to pursue this - it doesn't matter now and we should all be looking forward, and yet:

1. We don't "know" when Torres decided to leave. There's a bunch of conflicting reports ranging from when Chelsea made their offer (spin from his agent almost certainly) to 18 months ago. Each of us has our own beliefs about it, but I don't think anyone knows for sure.

2. Over that range of time, the stats give the most reliable indicator of the player's overall performance. In this case last season a very good overall performance, this season less so.

3. Over that same time period there were games or patches of poor performance. Some were down to injury and return from injury, poor tactics, poor overall team performance, loss of form and so on
.
I am sure some of them were down to the fact that he wanted out but not in my view Enough to justify branding him unprofessional throughout that period, which is what many have sought to do. If that's not the point you were making, sorry if I've got the wrong end of the stick though.

Moping around for half this season, refusing to run down channels, poor body language, half-arsed, stinking the place up with his sulky attitude, hardly professional or worthy of the shirt let alone £110,000 per week. But that is footballer's in the post Abramovich/Mansour era c*nts.

smitalfc · « **Reply #144 on:** February 3, 2011, 07:42:24 am »

ok Twelth Man. That's your view and you're fully entitled to it, especially if it makes you feel better about the whole thing! I see it differently, but am clearly very much in a minority on this.

jooneyisdagod · « **Reply #145 on:** February 3, 2011, 07:50:47 am »

Shit article from Sky sports. More pushing the agenda. More of this Sky sports generation bull shit. Gerrard is a terrific player but the greatest Liverpool player ? Having a fucking laugh are they ? And what is the point of that article anyway ? That Liverpool have fallen from grace ? That Chelsea are now a top club and Liverpool aren't ? Whats it trying to say ? Its called Torres a mercenary fair enough but it dismisses the club itself and questions the signing of Carroll without reason.

Twelfth Man · « **Reply #146 on:** February 3, 2011, 07:52:18 am »

Quote from: smitalfc on February 3, 2011, 07:42:24 am

ok Twelth Man. That's your view and you're fully entitled to it, especially if it makes you feel better about the whole thing! I see it differently, but am clearly very much in a minority on this.

Fair enough. As far as I am concerned not putting in 100% effort is criminal. Watch how he will run his socks off for Chelsea on £200,000-a-week and his beloved new fans, Oligarch and shirt. Obscene but very much typical behaviour for the modern footballer.

NineTails20 · « **Reply #147 on:** February 3, 2011, 08:54:05 am »

I know Mark Lawrenson isn't the most popular pundit in these parts, but I thought he raised some valid points here.

THERE’S no good way of leaving Liverpool for Chelsea. There’s no reason you can give that would convince the Anfield faithful that switching their adulation for Stamford Bridge is a wise move.

But what you don’t have to do is completely alienate those supporters by engineering a move at the most inopportune time and coming out with daft statements to back it up.

Fernando Torres is almost 27 and wants to win trophies and play in the Champions League. Fair enough.

But he knew that at the start of the season. If he’d made it absolutely clear then that he wanted to go instead of waiting for Chelsea to come in at the end of January maybe, just maybe, he would have resurrected a bit of respect and understanding concerning his motives.

I’m not saying that anyone should expect undying loyalty from a footballer these days, we know that they have to put their own career first and that makes Torres no better or worse than anyone else.

However, there are ways of going about it.

Last summer, Liverpool was in limbo. Rafa Benitez was on his way, the club was desperately trying to find a new buyer to rid itself of the George Gillett/Tom Hicks debacle and the team had failed to qualify for the Champions League for the first time in years.

The fans were disillusioned and couldn’t have blamed the players for feeling likewise.

And if Torres, fresh from a World Cup win with Spain, had come back, surveyed the mess and said, “sorry but I’m off” I don’t think too many would have blamed him.

There certainly wouldn’t have been the same level of antagonism there will be towards him now.

He has scored a few this season, but a finisher of his class can score goals with his eyes shut.

The reality is, he never really gave his all for Roy Hodgson and has sloped around looking uninterested for most of the campaign. If that was his attitude, he should have gone before a ball was kicked.

You can’t have a disillusioned figure running down the dressing room. If someone would rather play for Chelsea than Liverpool you have to let them do that.

But to declare undying love for a club one minute then declare that you’ve “joined a big club now” while sat in front of a giant Chelsea badge the next, is just silly.

For Liverpool, however, it makes it easy to wash their hands of him and move on.

What I like about the deals to bring in Luis Suarez and Andy Carroll is the investment in young, hungry potential.

If this is the direction the new owners want to go in then it can pay off both on and off the field.

Financially, while Carroll especially comes at a very high price, the sales of Ryan Babel and Torres will offset the outlay, and bringing in young players always gives you the time to cash in on them if they don’t prove a success. Babel is a good case in point, he can still fulfil his potential elsewhere.

And on the field, Liverpool will go from relying on one injury-prone – and as we now know uncommitted – striker to having two international forwards.

Kenny Dalglish knows how to get the best out of forwards and he also knows how to overcome the loss of a massively influential player.

That was the status Graeme Souness had at Anfield when he left in 1984 for Italy. He seemed irreplaceable at the time and, similarly in the case of Torres, there wasn’t really anyone who could come in directly and give what he gives to a team.

But it’s about sometimes getting in two players to do that similar job and adapting the side accordingly. You move on and, as I think we’ll see Liverpool do now, you move up.

What Kenny knows more than anything, however, is that nobody is bigger than the club. He is the man who has come closest to having that status, but he still couldn’t manage it.

So he’ll have no trouble making sure Torres is swiftly consigned to the history books.

Article here.

beadlehand · « **Reply #148 on:** February 3, 2011, 09:10:11 am »

Quote from: Twelfth Man on February 3, 2011, 07:30:33 am

Where did you learn this from?

Can't say sorry.

killerH · « **Reply #149 on:** February 3, 2011, 09:11:14 am »

Quote from: NineTails20 on February 3, 2011, 08:54:05 am

I know Mark Lawrenson isn't the most popular pundit in these parts, but I thought he raised some valid points here.

THERE’S no good way of leaving Liverpool for Chelsea. There’s no reason you can give that would convince the Anfield faithful that switching their adulation for Stamford Bridge is a wise move.

But what you don’t have to do is completely alienate those supporters by engineering a move at the most inopportune time and coming out with daft statements to back it up.

Fernando Torres is almost 27 and wants to win trophies and play in the Champions League. Fair enough.

But he knew that at the start of the season. If he’d made it absolutely clear then that he wanted to go instead of waiting for Chelsea to come in at the end of January maybe, just maybe, he would have resurrected a bit of respect and understanding concerning his motives.

I’m not saying that anyone should expect undying loyalty from a footballer these days, we know that they have to put their own career first and that makes Torres no better or worse than anyone else.

However, there are ways of going about it.

Last summer, Liverpool was in limbo. Rafa Benitez was on his way, the club was desperately trying to find a new buyer to rid itself of the George Gillett/Tom Hicks debacle and the team had failed to qualify for the Champions League for the first time in years.

The fans were disillusioned and couldn’t have blamed the players for feeling likewise.

And if Torres, fresh from a World Cup win with Spain, had come back, surveyed the mess and said, “sorry but I’m off” I don’t think too many would have blamed him.

There certainly wouldn’t have been the same level of antagonism there will be towards him now.

He has scored a few this season, but a finisher of his class can score goals with his eyes shut.

The reality is, he never really gave his all for Roy Hodgson and has sloped around looking uninterested for most of the campaign. If that was his attitude, he should have gone before a ball was kicked.

You can’t have a disillusioned figure running down the dressing room. If someone would rather play for Chelsea than Liverpool you have to let them do that.

But to declare undying love for a club one minute then declare that you’ve “joined a big club now” while sat in front of a giant Chelsea badge the next, is just silly.

For Liverpool, however, it makes it easy to wash their hands of him and move on.

What I like about the deals to bring in Luis Suarez and Andy Carroll is the investment in young, hungry potential.

If this is the direction the new owners want to go in then it can pay off both on and off the field.

Financially, while Carroll especially comes at a very high price, the sales of Ryan Babel and Torres will offset the outlay, and bringing in young players always gives you the time to cash in on them if they don’t prove a success. Babel is a good case in point, he can still fulfil his potential elsewhere.

And on the field, Liverpool will go from relying on one injury-prone – and as we now know uncommitted – striker to having two international forwards.

Kenny Dalglish knows how to get the best out of forwards and he also knows how to overcome the loss of a massively influential player.

That was the status Graeme Souness had at Anfield when he left in 1984 for Italy. He seemed irreplaceable at the time and, similarly in the case of Torres, there wasn’t really anyone who could come in directly and give what he gives to a team.

But it’s about sometimes getting in two players to do that similar job and adapting the side accordingly. You move on and, as I think we’ll see Liverpool do now, you move up.

What Kenny knows more than anything, however, is that nobody is bigger than the club. He is the man who has come closest to having that status, but he still couldn’t manage it.

So he’ll have no trouble making sure Torres is swiftly consigned to the history books.

Article here.