Topic: The Private James Fraser Investment Thread (*)

[xerxes1]

Theres been a lot of toxic loans over here Lyndsey and it seems the loan is wrote of and the company's owners  walk away from the loan owning nothing to the banks and the owner still owns the company ? or does the bank own the company ? seems to me the owner still owns the company and the loan is wrote off ?... could the Yanks have the loan wiped off and own the club debt free because if it was a toxic loan .. or would the banks own us ..

This needs unpicking. A common definition for a toxic loan is one where the debt exceeds the asset. So if the bank calls in the loan, the sale of that asset will realise less than the loan and the bank is faced with the loss.That is almost certainly not the case at LFC where Rhones offer valued the club at £250m, and the debt appears to be around £237m.

The defaulter does not still own the asset, and may still be liable for the shortfall, if they have the money.

[redmen77]

Theres been a lot of toxic loans over here Lyndsey and it seems the loan is wrote of and the company's owners  walk away from the loan owning nothing to the banks and the owner still owns the company ? or does the bank own the company ? seems to me the owner still owns the company and the loan is wrote off ?...
Wouldn't be surprised if this was the reason they were both in London yesterday ..

Probable somebody on here could explain could the Yanks have the loan wiped off and own the club debt free because if it was a toxic loan .. or would the banks own us ..

Its the same as if you didn't pay your mortgage but had an insurance that covered it. The bank would get there money but you would still be chased for the debt.

As for ownership yes the bank would own us. The only way the loan would become toxic (or part of it) would be if the bank could not recover its money from selling the asset. The govt haven't given the banks the money, just an insurance policy against losses.

[xerxes1]

We've got to get RBS to repossess Graham. Otherwise we're just going to get dragged further and further down.

Repossession is not the answer and would be hugely dangerous for the future of our club.

As for an Independent Chairman, Graham is correct. The Board has no football or football administration experience whatsover. The solution? Appoint someone who knows the Airlines business. You couldn't make it up.

[rocco]

The most plausible options are either selling a minority stake to pay down 100m of the debt as RBS are requiring or selling their entire stake to realise a profit on the investment (if they can).

If they sell 100%, they are gone. The club would then be a listed, or publicly owned, company and would elect directors at its annual general meeting of shareholders.

cheers ....

if its a possibility ... id also say they will sell a minority stake  issued as shares

[west_london_red]

so to sum up in plain English, in order to retain overall control there is the possibility that H&G will float a percentage of the club to raise the required capital to pay back the £100m or so rather than sell a share to a sole investor, hence the instalment of an 'independent' chairman...

have i missed something....

Thats the theory, and its something I have said that they might do for some time as from G&H's point of view it will be easier to deal with lots of small investors who all own a tiny amount of the club rather then one large investor with a large share in the club.

[N11RED]

Thats the theory, and its something I have said that they might do for some time as from G&H's point of view it will be easier to deal with lots of small investors who all own a tiny amount of the club rather then one large investor with a large share in the club.

thanks matey, but can they float only a percentage or does it need to be the entire 100%?

[west_london_red]

thanks matey, but can they float only a percentage or does it need to be the entire 100%?

Any % they want.

[west_london_red]

if that's the case then why did they drive themselves mad with this so called 'world wide' search for investors. in their eyes, float a percentage, pay down a chunk of the loans, retain overall control, happy days.

so in theory they never REALLY were in serious doubt of loosing control of the club.

wankers

The floatation is nothing other then a theory at this point, we dont know its going to happen. We've had plenty of other theorie that havent happened.

If they are going down this route it may wel be because no one is coming forward to invest (ie the world wide search has been unsuccessful), or not on the terms they want so this may be their next option.

[Wabaloolah]

Whens the accounts out should be any day now no doubt there will be another warning in there somewhere !!!

According to companies House, they need to be filed by 30th April 2010 - not sure if that means they will immediately be available to the public or not!

[Alan_X]

A toxic loan is the type made to someone who really wasn't qualified to get a loan in the first place(more like Hicks). Many were made with no income verification and often with the belief that prices always went up so if the person couldn't pay the payments, he/they could just sell the house (us) at a profit and pay off the loan.

It worked as long as prices were rising rapidly.

Another aspect was when a house (us)  increased in market price, people took out  equity loans which kept their equity low which further increased the advantage of letting the mortgage holder foreclose if you couldn't sell it for more than you owed.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080926165316AAFEPrG

If you're going to Google - quote your source.

[Alan_X]

I've deleted all the IPO/IPR/Rights Issue speculation. Can we stick to discussing things that are supported by some evidence.

[robb95]

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080926165316AAFEPrG

If you're going to Google - quote your source.

sorry sir, didn't think I had too as it was not a news link just what someone had wrote which clearly wasn't if you have seen my other posts haha

[redrockydennis]

I was told last night they dont have planning permission maybe they have one for a 60 thousand seater but not the 70 they want?

http://northgate.liverpool.gov.uk/planningexploreraa/

it will be in there somewhere if they have it, or even if its been refused should be in there, but there's 487 entries around anfield and it's far too early.

[Wezza]

Welll isnt this just bloody great for starters hes a Chelsea fan and secondly hasnt got a clue about how to run a football club 
What are they up to?

Obvioulsy they are the only ones that really know what they are upto, but if they are looking to sell the whole club, they need to keep up the facade that they really dont want to sell to get the top dollar that they are looking for.

Anybody know if Broughton and H and G have previous? Most of their super creative cunning plans normally involve somebody they have worked with before. Having seen them in action, I have no idea how they have got away with so much for so long, as the process they use isn't exactly genius is it.

[OneKop]

By the time they ever get around to building a new stadium, they will only need to build one with seating capacity for 20,000 as we will probably be playing teams like Luton

[lfctitch]

By the time they ever get around to building a new stadium, they will only need to build one with seating capacity for 20,000 as we will probably be playing teams like Luton

Be nice to have the biggest stadium in the league again though right?

[OneKop]

Be nice to have the biggest stadium in the league again though right?

Can just see it now {on a drawing board somewhere} Hotdog stalls one in every aisle, cheerleaders jumping about, H&G talking about how we are the strongest team in the championship due to their investment etc.

[lfctitch]

Can just see it now {on a drawing board somewhere} Hotdog stalls one in every aisle, cheerleaders jumping about, H&G talking about how we are the strongest team in the championship due to their investment etc.

At least the Parachute payments might be made into 4 years (originally 2 years) so I read yesterday? (I believe 2 years is £50 million if you go down; so am I right in suggesting that it might now be £100 million for a club that goes down?) Extra millions for the 2 owners. Good way to pay a chunk of debt. Hope there not reading this, they'll be creaming themselves.

[CraigDS]

At least the Parachute payments might be made into 4 years (originally 2 years) so I read yesterday? (I believe 2 years is £50 million if you go down; so am I right in suggesting that it might now be £100 million for a club that goes down?) Extra millions for the 2 owners. Good way to pay a chunk of debt. Hope there not reading this, they'll be creaming themselves.

I think its currently more like £11-15m a season for 2 seasons.

[rocco]

At least the Parachute payments might be made into 4 years (originally 2 years) so I read yesterday? (I believe 2 years is £50 million if you go down; so am I right in suggesting that it might now be £100 million for a club that goes down?) Extra millions for the 2 owners. Good way to pay a chunk of debt. Hope there not reading this, they'll be creaming themselves.

There's a increase in the parachute payment but not a 100% increase ...

[southern scouse]

Now why oh why, would you want to stop being influenced by Jack D and come back on here? do the decent thing and get straight back on it.

oh no no no, after his influence last night, couldnt even face a fry up this morning. Get back on it..........................if I smell it its knocking me stomach and head

[Mutton Geoff]

Welll isnt this just bloody great for starters hes a Chelsea fan and secondly hasnt got a clue about how to run a football club 
What are they up to?  I keep thinking exit strategy then they go and do something like this that make me think they are staying, Hicks is on his last legs by the looks of it, how can greed stop you from enjoying the short time you have left on this earth?
Just go !!!! No one wants you's here cant you get it through your thick fuckin skulls 

might get some good flight deals though?