Topic: Some quality/important posts you may have missed

[zero zero]

I was thinking about this post the other day, but couldn't begin to think where to find it. Cheers for that, it always brings a smile

[Jason_King]

I was thinking about this post the other day, but couldn't begin to think where to find it. Cheers for that, it always brings a smile

Its brilliant, absolutely brilliant. I must have read it 15 times in the last week. If things get shitty at work I find 5 mins to read through it and always has me on the verge of "lol'ing"

In fact, just try reading it without hearing a scouse accent hahahahaha, its impossible

[Terry de Niro]

from the late, great Shanklyboy and maybe not topical, however certainly relevant to being a Red and one of my favourite posts thats ever been posted on RAWK. RIP big man.

We had a go at that Princess.
It was the precursor to the May blitz.

When Ged was the manager I used to listen to that Legends show on Century radio on my way home from work.
Graeme Sharp, Alan Kennedy,Gary Owen and Mickey Thopmas used to present it.

Gary Owen was sound on it and Barney was his usual self ( I love the feller to bits but he was clueless on there).
Mickey Thomas and Graeme sharp were snidey, vindictive and absolutely venemous at times where Liverpool were concerned.
Barney was like a lost puppy and they used to take the piss every night.

They'd say something and all hands would know what Barnie should have said back to put them straight but he never ever did.I'd tried to get on a few times but never got through but I'd done my homework on both of these fellers as I knew I would one day.

Anyway one night I was coming out of work and I heard Mickey Thomas and Sharp saying something about Ged as usual and thought 'I'm not fucking having that" so I rang in and the researcher asked me what I wanted to talk about. I told him that if I told him that...he'd never let me on air. He was sound and said "It's not a problem mate.....I have to know though either way" So I told him I wanted to rip into that pair of gobshites and he started pissing himself laughing and said " Nice one....I'll get you on next".

So I'm going down The Lancs listening to the show and Barney says "We've got Ray on next from Liverpool who want's to talk to Mickey". Next thing I'm on the hard shoulder and on air.
Barney says "What is it you want to talk to Mickey about Ray".

So after telling Barney he was a great feller I ripped into the pair of inbreds.
I said they should be reported under the trade descriptions act  for calling this a legends show as there was only one of them that could come close to being that as Barney had won 13 major trophies in his career and scored the winning  goal in 2 European Cup Finals.
I told Sharp that at least he won a few things as a player but thinks he's qualified to comment on Houlliers managerial ability when his managerial carrer was one of abject failure. Taking an Oldham side full of  Premiership players to the 2nd Division in 2 years. Fucking legend alright.

Sharp never said a word.

Then I hit Mickey Thomas. I told him he was the biggest phoney on there. A Man Utd legend? or an everton Legend? Christ Almighty either way he was a joke. He played for Man Utd for 3 years and hardly did a tap. Scoring a handful of goals and never winning a fucking thing. At efc he lasted 3 months and was binned for refusing to play for the reserves...10 games and no goals.......some fucking legend.
The only time he won anything was the 3rd Division with Wrexham who took him back when he couldn't even get a club. 6 clubs in 6 years and doing nothing at any of them.
I asked him how he repaid Wrexham.........by using their trainees to laundering counterfeit money. A real fucking legend.
Any managerial experience Mickey......nahhh unless you can count running the team in the nick when you were doing your 18 months.

He tried to jump in a few times but I wouldn't let him and the producers just let me carry on until I'd finished.

Neither of them said a word and all I could hear was Gary Owen laughing his head off in the background.

My mate rang me up the following night to tell me he'd heard me on there and they were using my call to advertise their show.

You just can't win can yer?

The lad hit us with some rip roarers and that is right up there with anything that anyone could ever manage to put together.
Fucking brilliant and badly missed on here.

R.I.P indeed, Ray..

[John C]

The lad hit us with some rip roarers and that is right up there with anything that anyone could ever manage to put together.
Fucking brilliant and badly missed on here.
R.I.P indeed, Ray..

Terry that call could be on tape somewhere in the depths of the now Real Radio. Someone must have that call. I'd love to hear it, love it.

[Terry de Niro]

Terry that call could be on tape somewhere in the depths of the now Real Radio. Someone must have that call. I'd love to hear it, love it.

Definitely worth a try mate...

[Eeyore]

Terry that call could be on tape somewhere in the depths of the now Real Radio. Someone must have that call. I'd love to hear it, love it.

I remember listening to that call at the time little knowing that years later I would have the privilege of ending up on the same forum as Shanklyboy. That call has always stuck in my mind but then again so did so many things Shanklyboy posted.

[Red_Isle_Chap]

This from a rival fan. A lot of you should read this and take it in board, you really should.

Cheers Johnno.

It's a fact that we are living in and living through the instant success era. Anything not delivering that very rare commodity is deemed to be failure and the cries of "Off with his head" are loud and long.

Liverpool FC have a long and very proud tradition of normally doing the right thing in order to deliver success - defining what the right thing is can be a very tricky art (or should that be a science?) and success is a hard thing to define if you think about it.
Is it business success on the financial/commercial front that's being attempted? If so then it must always be down to the judgement of the owners to determine whether a degree of success has been achieved. 

I'm ever uncomfortable with that aspect of the game. From being just over 6 years old I was always in awe of the red shirts on the park striving for success - and that still is my requisite objective - striving to win but always steel must be accompanied with some style.   The law of averages cannot guarantee 100% success of course but when you don't win then the manner of how you didn't win is also very important. If you play the game as a skillful and organised unit with all focussed on the team deliverable, then by the same law of averages the side will win far more than ever they lose. For me as a fan primarily it's still the visible success / achievement that occurs out there on that green stuff that's fundamental. (It used to black, dirty and muddy through all the years I've watched the game - though these days they play on billiard table surfaces and so can have very few excuses!!)

I don't know what the magic ingredients are that transform a football team into champions. I will have a stab at defining the critical requirements I would expect such squads to possess.
They first have to be given a leadership philosophy that sets out what is expected of each individual AND of that assembly of 11 individuals and four or five subs that we call a team. It has to be a philosophy that is simple to grasp in whatever language it is communicated these days and fundamentally one that ALL the well paid professional staff understand and embrace 100%.

The club ably and capably lead by its visionary leader must seek to develop talent that is close to their home location - where possible - and seek to nurture close ties with the local community. The essence of belonging is very powerful and in these harsh days of global recession and difficulty, cannot ever be discounted or undervalued. Kids who love the club and are equipped to bring the best of themselves and whatever might be their particular skill-set to the table MUST be worthy of investing in and it starts them off on a path of life's quality learning.
 
But it's worth exploring what investment is really all about. It isn't necessarily the £40 mill bobbed out on a headline striker, nor is it the one-off short-termism chance purchase that sees only season end safety with this particular season's "missing link".
Let's face it, no-one in their right mind buys someone that's crap do they? Managers look long , listen well, evaluate thoroughly and THEN they move to buy. They buy often in order to BEGIN something and sometimes to COMPLETE something. They secure the services of some one special player that they - and maybe ONLY they at that time - have seen some essential quality in that fella and it's one that the manager hopes will galvanise the club's dreams for the future. That kind of purchase is an investment in the well-being of the infrastructure of the club and will relate directly and specifically to the pursuit of the quality of the personal vision the manager has already communicated to his squad.Sometimes he will be wrong in his judgement call - but only sometimes.

Man-management is critical - always was of course - but in today's game where almost all the bleedin' first team squad earn far more than their leader - it is priceless. When a guy has some pedigree in the game either by his demonstrated past performances as an inspirational leader on the park or as a winner as a leader off the park - IF you're dead lucky you can occasionally get BOTH - then you have the essential pre-requisite in place. In my case the red shirts I watched were United red and I am saying all of these things as a United fan of over 60 years. I say them because I believe they are the fundamentals that were put in place at United by Matt Busby post the war and they are what has stood the test of time again and again. Invest in quality and intrinsically grow it because it is never ever a waste of money.

In Kenny Dalglish, LFC have a living club legend at the helm - the man's done it, seen it and delivered quality on all levels wherever he's been employed in the game. He's seen more than his fair share of abject grief too let's remember - and he's borne it with real dignity at the time of the club's greatest tragedy.
He's a real man's football man and he's also deeply-rooted in the soul of the city and of the community that is Liverpool FC. I cannot envisage him being ever satisfied with a lack of earned success and I'll bet he's more angry, more concerned and more dissatisfied than ANY Liverpool fan.

I believe that given the support of the owners, together with the internal structures of the youth systems designed to deliver succession-planning, he will seek to deliver the pinnacle of footballing success once again for the football club. But success is ethereal and elusive isn't it - so the greatest gifts the fans can give their club - AND it's worthy leader - are TIME and SUPPORT. It might take some time to get back to the highest echelons of achievement - 26 years for some clubs to get back to the peaks of performance as my club know only too well - but TIME sustained by the SUPPORT of the fans is what it takes for KD to get the job done right.

[Hank Scorpio]

Jonno,

You dirty, sodden manc.

You speak the truth, THE TRUTH.

[Uhoh AureliOs]

A truly shocking and staggeringly sad opening post.

Net spend arguments aside, simply put, anybody who thinks winning trophies papers over a very disappointing season is supporting the wrong club. Liverpool Football Club exists to win trophies. Which is what we've already done this year, with our eyes set firmly on another prize. Silverware is back in our trophy cabinet for the first time in six years.

In no way has this season been "very disappointing". It's fair to say the league campaign in isolation has been disappointing, true, but with a more ruthless edge and a clinical finisher we would be right in the fight for the CL. We have dominated most games, played well in most games, and have deserved more points than we have registered. Despite losing Suarez for eight games and Lucas Leiva for half the season, despite Gerrard being injured for months, we were in a good position in the table until recently to challenge for fourth. Poor finishing cost us that chance. But we have played a great brand of attacking football at times, despite these setbacks and being a work in progress. Some signings have disappointed. Carroll the most, perhaps Adam in recent months. Others have looked good from the start, like Enrique and Bellamy, or have started to come good or shown flashes of great potential, like Downing and Henderson. Sometimes Kenny has got it wrong tactically. It's been a mixed bag.

But very disappointing would be sat where we are now in the league or lower having not won the CC and having already been knocked out of the FA Cup. Having not won both derbies. Having not beaten Arsenal and Chelsea away. Having not knocked City and United out of cups. Having not enjoyed moments and forged memories that will leave a lasting impression. Having lost to Northampton at home in the League Cup in September perhaps? Or been knocked out at the first hurdle in the FA Cup? Having lost at Goodison? Having provided gutless performances week in week out.

You say without Suarez we have zero creativity in the final third - well Gerrard for one might have something to say about that! What a laughable claim. And this one tops it:

"It will be impossible for us to attract the type of players we need to get us back in the CL unless we do a City/Abramovich live beyond our means, and basically bribe players to come to Anfield with shit loads of money as City and Chelsea before them did."

How did we sign the world class Luis Suarez then bright spark?!

God only knows what has become of our fans. Kenny has brought back the good times. We're heading to Wembley for the second time this season. We've just smashed Everton 3-0 in the derby, with a Steven Gerrard hat trick I hope to one day tell my kids about. Yesterday we reached the FA Cup semi final. And people are complaining, and saying we're papering over the cracks... I can only imagine you haven't watched us home and away this year, weren't there on Tuesday, weren't there when we beat City in the semi final or United in the fourth round, weren't at Wembley last month and won't be next month. Or hopefully the month after. I will. My mates will. We're having a ball. Because we're on the march with Kenny's army.

[Yorkykopite]

Aye, that's an excellent post.

[Joe_Singh]

What a lot of whoppers don't seem to get into those tiny, Sky-infested brains of theirs, is the fact that we dominated all and sundry this season- everyone, except Spurs, Bolton and City away(which we won anyways)- 2 of those games we were not ready for- either physically(Spurs away) or tactically(Bolton- their midfield overran ours that evening). We matched those arseholes up in Salford and they shat themselves at ours!

Another thing- we have the 2nd-best defensive record in the league, extremely attacking stats- among the best 2/3; lots of draws, which were games we went in to win(we didn't go in there to control the game or not to lose- PROGRESS!), but for our one problem- GOALS. Prior to mid-Feb, we had 4 losses!(add 1/2 v. good more players and that problem goes away). We fekkin beat City away! Steam-rolled Chelsea away with a squad resembling our reserves!

That is the form of potential champions- even the blind can see that. It's as clear as a pole above water. Clear as day, which tells you something about them c*nts(Sorry, I won't hold back- it's time I speak up and let fly! Fuck this respect for others viewpoint- they have absolutely no regard for mine). If you were born blind, went deaf somewhere along this pitiful existence, had a bad case of tooth-decay, lost a leg, supported United and could reason for shit, you'd be able to put 2 and 2 together and would've come up with 4, but obviously that sort of intelligence is somewhat beyond some of us.

We dominated in Cup games, in league games, in away games, at home- and even with Lucas out, we maintained form. If we had scored one more goal in all those draws, we would've been in the hunt for the title. Yeah- the same whoppers will try to derail from the possibility by throwing in things such as "if my aunt had balls" etc.. not realizing- or rather refusing to realize/admit- that we're talking about possibilities, the future and how far we've come since Rafa's last season and Roy, here.

An attacking team with such a high amount of draws and who dominate all opposition - whether it be rivals involved in Europe or away games and who win trophies, are in the ascendancy.
This season, our form resembled that of Spurs last season. Not that their a benchmark- we can just look at our own, but I'm using them since they're not traditionally a top-4 placed team. Who did they add?

'Zaccerly! Ade-bye-bye!

I feel great about us under Kenny. The best thing that could've happened to us- and that I dreamt about during Hicks/Gillett(you can read my history) has happened to us: We've got responsible owners(I asked not for a sugar-daddy/oligarch type, but responsible, reasonably well-off, sober owners), we've got the man back at the helm who can deliver the title- and he's well on the way- we're playing high-tempo, passing, attacking football(perfect for the league), coupled with excellent pressing(perfect for Europe and our cup run shows we can go far when we get back in)- that's vintage Kenny, we've got consensus at all layers, we're debt-free etc..

We just need a player in the mold of Yossi/Luis G and/or a striker and we'll be either in pole position or hot on their heels. If we had one of those this season, we'd be right in the thick of challenging for the League. Imagine- being a player or 2 away from bloody City!

Another positive, we seem to have totally turned the tables when it comes to managing injuries and injury-prone players. Our squad is healthy and heals fast- perfect for the grueling length of the league. It's March and we are able to compete in Cups and still win mid-week and again on Saturday/Sunday.

And for all the shit that our players had to endure- they still helped us dominate games: Adam, Henderson, Downing- guys who don't really need to score a lot. The only reason we are fuming, is because we didn't win, and then we turn on these poor bastards! They've done sterling! Carrol is not the immediate success we thought, but hey- you can't win 'em all! Sometimes things don't work out and maybe we need to grow up and realise that. There is no Easter Bunny, there was no Golden Age, no Alice In Wonderland, men cheat- but who do you think they do it with? Dogs? The boy from Andromeda? The jovial hermit in the kinky suite? No- with other WOMEN(who themselves are cheaters then!); and yes Dorothy, we're not in Kansas anymore!

Nah- Fukk 'em! They're whoppers and some are WUMs! I suspect some of these may be blue, the rest may just be addicted to pain or have a fearful nature or something- I dunno and I don't care.
The Future's Bright. The Future's Red. It's not Shite and neither is it Sad!

I've had it with these trolls, I'm going to fuckup something or someone, now!

[Bincey]

You can read too much into the start of any season, and to read anything from the first game is entirely short-sighted and isn't fair on any team, least of all one that had only 3 players (goalkeeper included) start last season's opening fixture as well as this season's. Having said that there was already a difference to see between a well established title challenging team and one finding its feet. 

I hate the Mancs, passionately, it isn't a hatred that I received with a Liverpool supporter's club card for my 6th birthday, nor is it a rational one, this hatred was inoculated into me seconds after birth, as it was with anybody else born in Oxford Street maternity hospital, and has festered and continues to gestate with every passing year becoming worse. I try to hide the affliction, "Oh that team down the road, oh they don't bother me..THEY'RE obsessed with US!", and yet I watch. I watch them on Sky, on ESPN, in Europe, even Charity Shields and Super Cups, and why? I want them to lose, I want them to lose badly, I want there to be no more Manchester United and to scratch their name from the annuls of history, where once was a mighty construction in Salford there will be a car park and a sign that reads "The Sami Hyypia car park"...

But, fuck me, they're good.

What other team can you feel uneasy seeing the opposition winning a corner against, how the fuck can you simply "know" that at 2-0 down away to Blackpool the score will finish 2-3, you even see them losing 2-0 at half time to a multi-billionaires piggy bank and you know they'll win. Today you see both central defenders hobble off (3/4 of the back line now injured), a goalkeeper who it actually looks like is shitting his kecks and a team that's on average a year younger than the one that first featured Giggs, Scholes, Neville etc. and yet you're positive that even at 80 minutes drawing 1-1, away from home, they're going to get the winner.

How do they do it every year?  The answer is simple, as all good things in football are: Patience.

Yesterday we looked fantastic, we passed the ball with ease and purpose, we created space and denied the opposition any chances, we caused problems and all around the pitch looked assured, confident and at ease with the situation.  When Suarez missed the penalty we still pushed and got our rewards, a worthy goal.  Referees can be blamed for not handing out cards, for denying goals but ultimately the direction of the game, and our play, turned in one instant.   Below are the pass completion stats, we start well and when Suarez scores we are even better, we maintain a high pass completion rate and the amount of passes we make remains high.  We are sailing, cruising to victory, by how many is the only question to be asked?

Suddenly Sunderland score and from that point on there is abject panic.  There is no belief in the methods that have created so many chances and the passes become rushed, long, inaccurate and sparse. Andy Carroll soon becomes a magnet for incoming Nike projectiles and the second ball is constantly lost and by the time of the final whistle our pass completion rate has dropped again to its almost lowest point in the game.

Liverpool 1 - 1 Sunderland

Minutes	Success	Fail	Percent
0-10	22	10	68%
11-20	65	16	80% *
21-30	43	16	72%
31-40	47	10	82
41-50	74	16	82%
51-60	34	8	80% *
61-70	33	12	73%
71-80	39	15	72%
81-90	62	27	69%

* - 11th Minute Suarez scores
* - 57th Minute Larsson scores

There was no sense of calm, a steady head telling the players new to this situation how to react, this has to come with experience and therein lies the difference between our 2 clubs and the mission Kenny Dalglish has on his hands, to instill a consistent philosophy and belief into an impressionable set of minds. While many will focus on referees or the decision to include Flanagan these points are trivial compared to the larger scheme, the entire team had a personality breakdown.  Flanagan will take the sharp end of the stick but he won't be the only player to cost us a lead through an error, Pepe Reina did the exact same thing last season, players will make mistakes and that is something that cannot be changed in football, what can be changed is the response to it.

Take the Mancs for example.  Like us they take an early lead and their pass completion stats rise and plateau at around 80%.  Like ourselves they suffer the sting of an equaliser, as more and more time passes without a goal something strange happens, instead of panic there is belief, a self-fulfilling prophecy that Man United will score, and their pass completion rate stays as it was, they have belief in their methods and these methods pay their reward with the winning goal.

West Brom 1 - 2 Manchester United

Minutes	Success	Fail	Percent
0-10	54	14	79%
11-20	50	12	80% *
21-30	36	9	80%
31-40	53	12	81% *
41-50	67	17	79%
51-60	60	9	86%
61-70	46	12	79%
71-80	38	9	80%
81-90	59	12	83% **

* - 13th Minute Rooney scores
* - 37th Minute Long scores
** - 81st Minute Reid o.g.


This is why those who know football have already targeted 4th and looked no higher.  This isn't just a new group of players we have but in the grand scheme of things we might as well have a new club: new owners, new manager, new director of football, new reserve boss, new players, new sponsors, new kit makers, and hopefully new stadium.  Kenny Dalglish needs the time Alex Ferguson had to build a dynasty, to instill a sense of belief and calm, to bestow a philosophy upon the faithful and to wrestle the confrontation to any situation from that shower of shite down the road.

What we don't need is squabbles over team selection, outcries over substitutions, finger pointing at referees, and general "the end is neigh" prophecies after 90 minutes of football.  If you've been brought back down to Earth with a bang after 90 minutes I hate to be the one to break it to you but this rebuilding is going to take years, if not a decade, to truly overtake Man United as favorites for the title.

Fans and players alike need patience.

Absolute rip-snorter of a post. Needs a bump.

[J-Mc-]

Think this deserves to be in here...

And now to the point I was making with a few people yesterday. As most of you know I've never been one shy away from speaking my mind, even when it's not very popular so here goes. The lack of leadership and a clear mentality on the pitch has been a problem with the club ever since I started following it, bar the last 5 months of the 08/09 season. We are a club that wins cup finals. And that mentality is infused with our DNA at this point. And in a sense highlighted by the players we brought in. And I know that the next two points will not go down well with many but I think we have become an English club through and through. We were moving from it with Rafa Benitez but are back in it again. Players who think they are better than they are because the media says so and players who believe they don't have to work hard to achieve success. After all when you play for Liverpool/England then by default you are amongst the favourites for whatever competition you take part in. Given how important "Scouse not English" is to many people some would have me lynched but those who don't can please convince me that I'm wrong (I hope I am, I truly do).

I'm going to name two games from our season and two games from England's performance in the World Cup and see if they sound familiar.

England 0 - 0 Algeria
15   Shots   11
6   Shots on goal   1
10   Corner kicks   3

vs.

Liverpool 0 - 0 Swansea
18   Shots   9
10   Shots on goal   3
11   Corner kicks   4

Man for man the former team has the advantage. Manager to manager, the former team should have the advantage. The former has the quality on the pitch to do it, the quality on the sidelines to do it. Yet they can't turn their superiority into a win.

The second game:

England 1 - 1 USA
18   Shots   13
8   Shots on goal   4
8   Corner kicks   4

vs.

Liverpool 1 - 1 Norwich
25   Shots   12
15   Shots on goal   10
10   Corner kicks   3

And again. Man for man the former team has the advantage. Manager to manager, the former team should have the advantage. The former has the quality on the pitch to do it, the quality on the sidelines to do it. 3x as many corner kicks. Yet they can't turn their superiority into a win.

Why? Because when those teams stepped onto the pitch one arrogantly assumed victory, the other worked towards it. I am simply quoting the world cup games as it's part of a piece I'm doing for the Euros in the summer when comparing mentality to quality, citing Germany's success and England's failure. We are becoming the England NT of club football. The achievement(s) of the past and our place in the history books has installed a mentality that we can't match on the pitch. Only thing differing us from England is that we can win when it matters in knock-out formation.


And it coincides with what I said after the Bolton game
We raise our games "when it matters" and play like horseshit when it doesn't. And since I didn't offend enough people by claiming that Liverpool are becoming the England of club football here's one for the rest. Steven Gerrard is not a league winning captain.


He is a man that will take the hope, faith and expectations of millions of people with everything on the line and deliver. When you think Steven Gerrard you think of the glory. The quintessential Steven Gerrard moment is that Olympiakos goal. Against all odds, in the moment of need,  when the world thought Liverpool was down and out there he was. Liverpool's talisman. You can watch that goal muted and in your head Andy Gray's voice still rings "To Geeeeerrard ohhhhhhhhhhhhh you beauty!!!! What a hit son! What. A. Hit."  You could name any of his unforgettable goals. His goal against the Mancs in the '03 league cup. His spark in the Istanbul comeback. Crushing West Ham's dreams in the '06 cup final. Arguably an even bigger definer of Gerrard's career. With the last shot of the game he saves it for Liverpool.

Gerrard has always been a man of action. He's more concerned with getting the job done than shouting at someone. It's in a sense his biggest quality and his biggest downfall. He is such a dynamic player, on his day absolutely unstoppable. But he still isn't the best candidate for captain. I could go on and on about it but it'd be a waste of time and effort as I would never do it as well as HBHR has already done.


I have always had a hard time with Gerrard as captain. He is such a fantastic player and his love for the club makes him the understandable candidate but he also has a habit of taking on the responsibility for all the wrong reasons. It's the reason he was infamously subbed off vs. Everton and speaking of infamous that look when Rafa subbed Torres off vs. Birmingham is not the look of a man who will buckle down even more. Now he has all the talent in the world to change the outcome of a game. He is the best player on the pitch, he is the one who bails us out of problems and he is the one who wins matches at the death by individual brilliance. And make no mistake about it, everyone knows it. But he is not a man who will take a step back, assess the situation and adjust. I am convinced beyond all reasonable doubt that if Lucas had played yesterday we would not have lost. When we conceded his reaction, as has so often been, would've been to bring us together, focus more and take on the responsibility and heat of the action to kill the game. We didn't see anything resembling leadership from Gerrard in the last 20 minutes of the game. He wasn't dictating play, organising the midfield or even telling the players to snap the fuck out of it. Concentrate on playing our game and that it's criminal to switch off with nearly a quarter of the game left. And that's my problem with Gerrard as captain. He differentiates between opponents. European night at Anfield? Everton/Manc teams/Chelsea/Arsenal? Important semi or cup final? Expect the very best. Steven Gerrard the human wrecking ball. Bow down and accept defeat and save yourselves the humiliation of trying to stop him. It's impossible as evident by the countless examples of him stepping up when the club needs him to.

Facing West Ham/Birmingham/Blackburn/Reading/Wolves/Wigan/Fulham/Hull/Blackpool/whoever? Pffft I got this! We're Liverpool they don't stand a chance. Bring a top performance against that lot? In your dreams!


We are so reliant on Gerrard when he plays, that everything has to revolve around him or go through him or over the past year or so Suarez. We focus so much on getting the ball to Gerrard that we can easily be stopped if he's taken out or has a bad day. And at times like that, having your key player and the one you feed the ball to constantly who has a tendancy to take all the responsibilty on his shoulders can only work against us. Gerrard is so convinced (can't say I blame him) that he has to be the one to bail us out of trouble that he sees no other option. When there are 5 seconds left of the game and you have one chance you want Gerrard. When you are 3-0 down in the CL final you want Gerrard. When you are playing Everton at home in desperate need of a win after an abysmal league form and need someone to score a hat-trick you want Gerrard.

But again that's what wins trophies not leagues. And it all comes down to this one simple point. When was the last time Liverpool played well in consecutive games that weren't in cup form or against rivals and how likely do you think the current squad is to do so? Because I'm struggling to find any answers that don't further bring out my pessimistic cuntish nature.

[Red_Isle_Chap]

Just read this from mouth, in reply to the "Dear Football" thread in general football. It really does belong in here.

Interesting, good reason as to why there is just no point in reading the main forum as well.

I sometimes think it would be better if there wasnt a forum on here for discussing LFC, just the other forums talking about opther stuff and funny bastards taking the piss left right and centre trying to out funny each other.

Its easy to say its a new thing, but for as long as I can remember there have been gobshites following football. As in in other areas of life, they think they know it all and are quick to let everyone know their opinion and why their opinion is the right one, so entrenched in their views and the righteousness of their cause, there is no discussion, there is no rational discourse, they are not open to other ideas or to the fact that they might be wrong, they are only interested in proving they are right. No matter how much logic is tossed in front of them, its dismissed with some curious esoteric theory which cant be proved any which way, but is perfect because its usually cant be disproved either, because its completely subjective and total horseshit.

Some people have gotten hung up on the idea that the right to have an opinion means they are free to express it and that because its just their opinion it is therefore correct. No fucktards, its not the fucking same thing. Once upon a time these fuckwits were kept away and didnt do too much damage, there would be one or three to every social group, they would stick with that group and be largely derided and ignored. But they now have a new way and medium in which to communicate, every little blert thinks he is a football writer because he can set up a blog and copy the prose style of trained journalists, lacking none of that training though they use hyperbole, relying ever so much upon their much vaunted right to an opinion. (not a dig at you Monty) It would be fine if they stuck to thier own blogs, but its not enough, they need to share it properly, they need to make people understand, its no good for them to have these thoughts and keep them to themselves, they must share it, they must tell people. They need to be bable to say I told you so if ever one of their shitey little pronouncements comes true, they need to try and get some vaidation from total strangers by making them agree with them. So they see fit to invade forums to shout at the top of their voice their opinion, which if only it was heard and fully understood would solve all the problems of the world, or in the case LFC.

Really they just want to fucking moan and whinge, this is part of football, this has always gone on, they want to moan and whinge and share it with others, it makes them feel better, it gets them attention and they feel better because someone might have listened to them moaning. Before the internet they could only moan to a few people in their own circle and make their lives miserable, then came phone ins, oh how they loved the phone ins, but finally came the internet, nicknames and the chance to be totally anon, to not have to back anything up or put social acceptance on the line or even be civilised and have any kind of manners at all, a c*nts paradise was born. So instead of being in their own padded cell, talking to no one, now they go into the asylum and shout, screetch and roll about on the floor, smear themselves in their own shit and get lots of attention and feel validated and warm.

It boils down to a simple thing, they need to shut the fuck up, but since they wont, you need to learn to avoid them online as you do in walking life.

Right now where is the nudie calendars at?

[No666]

Belter from Yorky in Roy's excellent Stupid Football thread, which is well worth a meander through if you've got half an hour and the inclination to be educated:

An excellent thread and, as usual, a thought-provoking opener by Royhendo.

The stand-out post for me is Peter McGurk's. I’m persuaded by it because I think stupid football is a product of poor technique and (especially) poor comprehension before it’s a product of poor psychology and poor character. Fear of failure is a terrible handicap in a player and for a team, but often that fear has a rational foundation. It’s usually the product of knowing you don’t quite have the skills and technique to compete rather than some mental blockage which prevents you from expressing yourself. It’s an excess of truth in other words rather than a lack of self-belief. 

It’s a pity that some of what Peter said in his first post has been misunderstood. He said ‘process does not dominate brilliance’ in football, not that process isn’t important. He also said that brilliance is a vital factor, not that it is the only factor.

Clearly it isn’t the only factor – and I’ve never heard anyone argue that it is. But the idea that brilliance can be a “liability in sport”, as someone said above, is surely wrong. It can be improperly harnessed and improperly understood but the team that wants to eliminate the brilliant player because he seems to be too erratic or egotistical is the equivalent of the mediocre company boss that feels threatened by singularity and hires people just like himself. If brilliance is a problem for the team blame the coach not the player. Asprilla was mentioned as a case in point to illustrate the 'liability' thesis. Well Newcastle have not again touched the heights that he helped take them to. They almost won the league with him in their attack. They fairly destroyed Barcelona at St James’s (and didn’t Asprilla score a hat-trick?). Hopefully one day someone won’t be saying about Suarez – ‘Brilliant player but he didn’t do Liverpool any favours’.

Roy, I’m always wary of applying military models to sport. They occupy such radically different orbits. Army’s don’t tolerate mavericks. I can't imagine, for example, a martial equivalent of Messi or Ibrahimovic - or Suarez for that matter. One suspects too that in real life the army is not as good as it claims to be at rooting out the inadequate soldier or the man who can't 'cut it' under pressure. ‘Friendly fire’, after all, has become a house-hold word in recent times. One thinks back, also, to that famous United States survey after the Korean War which revealed the astonishing statistic that over 50% of the infantry failed to shoot their guns during a fire-fight. That sounds like a failure of nerve of Liverpool FC proportions!

It might be the case that military drills work a good deal better in rugby union of course. That game is far less fluid and changeable than football. It's not quite on the Grid-Iron end of the spectrum where coaches call the shots throughout the game but in terms of improvisation it seems to have more in common with its American cousin than it has with the round-ball game. In any case didn't English rugby union leap ahead by employing rugby league coaches like Joe Lydon - pretty much as Welsh rugby union is doing now by using the know-how of Wigan RLFC's Shaun Edwards? I know it's less sexy for Woodward to admit he took his cues from Puddleforth and Grimsdyke than the Marine Corps, but that's essentially what happened isn't it?

And Woodward's a self-promoting arse. Give me Harry Redknapp any day. (You had to feel for Harry being put under the eye of that egg-chasing public schoolboy at Southampton. What happened to Redknapp by the way?)

The stuff on Bellamy was very interesting, but I think our stupidity is technical still, not attitudinal. It’s a deficit of knowledge (ie football knowledge) rather than a mental block or a psychological disorder. I'm always a bit suspicious of those who think old Liverpool had ice in their veins too. I remember reading one of the 1980s players - Hansen I think - describing how some of the senior pros always had their pre-match puke before running out and facing the Kop. This wasn't bulimia I don't think. It wasn't even the old booze culture. It was tension of an extraordinary kind. Those blokes were nervous. 

If we're 'stupid' now I'd suspect it's because we don't have enough players who are truly able to describe what they're trying to do. We often talk about footballers learning the 'how', but I sometimes wonder whether in Britain there are enough home-grown players who also know about the 'why'. You see this with young players at all levels I think. Copying the technical skills of great footballers - as so many of the youtube generation now do - often shows you the ‘how’ but leaves the ‘why’ unanswered. It’s the reason you get technically able kids who know virtually nothing about WHEN to apply a particular skill. It can lead to a fetishising of technique while leaving a deplorable appreciation of what destructive team play involves.

Hank’s post was good on Michels and that coach's premium on a player's ‘ability to think for himself'. That ability comes, of course, from understanding the 'why' as well as the 'how'. When I look at Liverpool now I'm sometimes struck by how technically good most of our players are, but how poor their movement is - both when we have the ball and don't have it. Surely that's a problem with the 'why'. That's to say many of our players still don't seem to know why they are meant to be moving - and therefore don't know when to move or where to move to for maximum effect.

When a team enjoys continuous possession for more 20 seconds it should begin to see the opposition weaken and options open all over the pitch. I never feel this is going to happen when we enjoy that kind of ball. This must have something to do with the 'why' rather than the 'how'. Do we really have enough players who understand what the purpose of retaining possession is? To put it crudely it's to make each successive pass more damaging to the opponent. The pressure is meant to build and a bad pass - even to feet - is one that allows an opponent to regain its shape. I look at Spearing sometimes - and I'm not picking on him especially - and wonder if he's really aware of what a man in his position is trying to accomplish. 

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

Flanagan played very well having had very little playing time

and a debut for Sterling who didn't look overawed by his debut

some good points about modern society and the expectancy - the crowd today was abysmal not sure which was the more embarassing -  on the pitch or off it - but this thread seems to reflect society as a whole - self important opinion, demanding instant gratification, very little patience - if that genuinely is the new crowd,  the new Liverpool Way , the way the current fan (old and young) want it to be then fuck it - its not really worth anything is it?  - if you are just going to 'buy' success whats the point of the whole bleedin game?

I'm not defending Kenny or the players after today, we were rubbish - thats everybody - just wondering what the fans expect when they exhibit the exact same behaivour as the players - how many fans wrote off 4th - generally the exact same fans blaming the players for not turning up today and writing off 4th, almost to  a man - what do you actually expect - we are all supposed to be in this together - we can't be in it together when everybody values their own opinion above the club - we can't be in it together when everybody points the finger, we can't be in it together when we are blaming each other or are we only in it together when we win? Is that the new way? As a player would you want to play in front of this bipolar crowd - who'll blame you for everything - who slag you for trying your best - and at the same time ask where the loyalty is, why they dont take pride in the shirt?

The 'old ways' meant  the fans used to support the team and they were rewarded by players who wore the shirt with pride, who gave their all - nowadays? - why the fuck should they? Why should Henderson give a toss when all he gets is abuse? When modern fans demand everything for ££££ why should the player do anything else?

all well and good saying times have changed - well if they have dont expect the same things we used to - times have changed.

the supporters have a responsibility whether its  a forum or a match to support - very few on here take that responsibility seriously and yet its exactly the same no marks who demand something more from the players - the hypocrisy is staggering

in the last fortnight we battered Everton, we out fought Stoke, we slaughtered QPR for 75 minutes - then we've capitulated to QPR in 15 mad minutes and been out thought and fought by Wigan - that does not mean everything is dreadful, it does not mean everything is good - so a little perspective may be called for.

I'm disgusted with some in here as I am with todays performance. The calls for Dalglish to go are a disgrace imo they say more about our fans base than even the morgue of an atmosphere today.

exactly what makes LFC different to any other club when we behave exactly the same? going by this thread nothing and we are getting everything our support deserves.

[Arcadian]

Thankfully there are threads like this on nights when there's pandemonium on RAWK.

[liverbnz]

That's a brilliant post from Mouth up there. Just brilliant!

[Uhoh AureliOs]

I was heavily involved in RTK. The initial gang of activists were drawn mainly from The Rattle website but it was never the uber-Scouse mafia it became portrayed as. There were only about 10-12 involved - Scousers, Out of Towners even an Out of Country or two. There’d been rumblings on the forum for a good long while about the prolonged death of our atmosphere, and those conversations led to threads about songs you only ever hear at aways and whether we could ever bring back a good old wall of sound on any kind of regular basis.

The straw that broke the camel’s back, back then (autumn 2006), though, was the sight of Liverpool fans reading The Sun in The Stanley pub, a few hundred yards from the ground, before the Bordeaux game. A couple of lads approached the Sun readers and in very reasonable terms asked them if they knew how offensive this was; in no uncertain terms they were told to fuck off by the Sun readers. The two lads in question proceeded to set their newspapers on fire and there was a bit of a kick-off with locals involved on both sides. You read that right: although the fellas reading the rag were, it turned out, from Cork, a good few locals jumped to their defence when the two newspapers went up in flames. At the game itself, most of our support in the Anfield Road End seemed intent on baiting the Bordeaux fans (who had been brilliant with us over there, and were some of the loudest and most inspiring fans I’ve ever encountered), rather than getting behind the Redmen. This was only a year after Istanbul, after the Chelsea semi-final, yet already we seemed to be heading for a smug, samey mediocrity of support that had nothing to do with the traditions we held so dear as Liverpool fans.

The following day the original War Cry went up - very reminiscent of Scud’s sterling efforts here. About 15 or so met up in Shenanigans pub on Tithebarn Street and a loose agenda was put together. Top of the list was that we wanted as many like-minded lads and lasses sat together on The Kop as possible. But there was a whole list of other things that could be categorised as “Love The Club, Love The City”. No-one gave a fuck where any Red came from; we referenced the famous “Supporters All Over The World” scarves as a source of pride, proof that we were a big club, a world-revered phenomenon with a history like no other. We saw ourselves as International Socialists and actively embraced the idea of Liverpool supporters thronging together for the common good; but we didn’t want to see our own fans wearing curly “Scouse” wigs and laughing along when the opposition fans trotted out their tiresome “sign on” and “stereo” songs. We didn’t want them reading The Sun. If that was the Scouse Stasi telling people what to do, then so be it. No apologies.

The key thing to understand is that, right from the start, we had the support of the club. FSG talk a good game but the cynic in me remains to be convinced by a group who hadn’t heard of LFC two weeks before buying us. Who knows, though? Maybe they’ll see good business sense in helping to re-ignite The Kop. Rick Parry did with us lot. Ian Ayre makes much of his L4 roots, so it’s to be hoped that Scud and co can bring Ayre to the table and challenge him to do even more than Parry did. We wrote to him and argued that, whether you were viewing our support as a traditionalist or merely from a business point of view, Liverpool F.C needed a vibrant Spion Kop. The Kop is a massive part of our folklore, it was pitiful to witness its decline and a feeble Kop did nothing for the club‘s image and standing. He invited us to a meeting at Anfield.

Suspicious as we were, we assumed this would be a one-off meeting and decided to draw up a list of everything we wanted the club to involve itself in. Although the formation of an ultra-style section in The Kop was the ultimate aim, we had all been involved in fund-raising initiatives for the Michael Shields campaign (he was still in Bulgaria back then, and the Bulgarian government was demanding £96,000 for his transfer back to the U.K), so we asked Parry if we could hold a bucket collection. His reaction was unexpected. He called the stadium manager Ged Poynton into the meeting and told him:

“Ged, we’re not just allowing this, we’re supporting it.”

In fairness to Poynton, he was good as gold on the day, and over time, once he felt he could trust us, was helpful across the board with our initiatives (storing the bigger flags etc.). On the day of the bucket collection LFC arranged for Securicor to count and transport the money (£26,000) to the bank and as a first strike for the brand-new RTK the day went as well as we could have hoped.

The Kop Charter, massively misrepresented as a list of do’s and don’ts was mainly tongue in cheek. In 2007, the City of Liverpool turned 800. It was 800 years since King John gave the town its Charter, so in recognition of this milestone we put together a Kop equivalent. It was all about cherishing the city and embracing the Liverpool way and included such controversial suggestions as No To Racism and Don’t Buy The Sun (yeah, there we go again telling people what not to do). By the turn of 2007, of course, our efforts had attracted a bit of attention in the local press. Nothing is more guaranteed to get you a slagging than having the cheek to appear in your local media, yet if anyone could have seen the scramble to avoid publicity they would have had to laugh. Radio City would phone up for a quote and there would be literally no-one who would speak to them. Nobody wanted to be “RTK spokesman X” and in the end we had to draw lots. Same with The Echo, same with everything…Tony Barrett (writing for The Echo at the time) had to whack something together himself, email it through and say: “Okay if I run this?” The fact that the group had originated on The Rattle meant that other forums felt obliged to find fault and suddenly RTK were Media Whores etc. Such is life.

RTK suggested that LFC invite Michael Shields’ Dad down to Melwood to speak to the players about what his son was going through. Michael was, after all, just a lad who had gone to Istanbul to support the Redmen. His Dad was overwhelmed by the time and sympathy afforded him by Xabi Alonso, in particular, and was stunned when the players’ own bucket collection raised almost £50,000 - enough to pay the ransom to Bulgaria. This was some achievement for a (very) part-time pressure group but it was nothing compared to Truth Day. For me, that made all the sniping worth it. Just before Christmas 2006, Kelvin Mackenzie had, once again, reminded the world what an odious lowlife he is by revealing that he had only ever apologised under duress: his personal view was that he stood by every word. We had Arsenal coming up in a live F.A Cup 3rd round fixture. The FA Cup. Mackenzie. 6 Minutes. I don’t have to tell you what happened at the game - I‘m sure it‘s out there on YouTube somewhere. It makes the hairs on my scalp stand up just thinking about it - it brings tears to my eyes. It was one of the greatest displays of fan power you will ever witness, anywhere.

Over the next few months we saw the re-introduction of banners and flags on poles in The Kop (they’d previously been banned); we came up with the infamous Tesco Balloons at Goodison; we raised money for and made The Originals flag and, later, the Scouse Solidarnosc one; and, in spite of the club producing a scientific and logistical argument as to why they couldn’t serve cold beer inside the stadium, one of the RTK regulars proved to them that they could, if Carlsberg would use a certain type of bottle! So it is that one of RTK’s lasting legacies is the cold ale you drink inside the ground today.

Through all that time we were talking about ways of getting a core group all sat together, ideally in the middle of The Kop. After going round the houses and back with one idea after another, it was Rick Parry who eventually came up with the idea of re-locating the Kids section out of the back of the Kop and into the Upper Anny, leaving the back sections (primarily Block 306) for any season holder who wanted to move. So, in the close season of 2007, that came about and the RTK section was established in block 306 with overspill left and right. Those sections are still there today - though many of the instigators stopped going to the game at the height of the G&H larceny and some have stayed away for keeps. Those who remain have, I suspect, given up trying to get an atmosphere brewing. Too many season ticket holders are just too old, too spoiled, too lazy, too disconnected to care - they just want the team in red to run out, entertain them, score three or four and send them home content. That is the Kop charter in 2012.

The moral of the story is that if something is worth doing, you bust your lungs and lose your mind trying to make it happen. Scud - I’d start by writing to Ian Ayre. Throw down the gauntlet. Tell him Rick Parry set a standard and left a legacy in terms of his dealings with fan groups; what‘s Ayre going to leave as his own contribution? ‘Belong‘? Thomas Cook match day experiences? Ayre will fob you off and say “that’s what the committee’s for”, but it’s not - is it? The committee is a toothless poodle set up by the club to neuter SOS; end of story. The difference here is that, by FSG’s definition, Scud’s group is looking to add value to the LFC brand. If you keep posting your responses, your progress and your thoughts up here then John Henry and Tom Werner will see it, sooner or later - and if they think it makes sense, they’ll get in touch. Keep the torch burning - and good luck with it.

[Kovai Red]

Absolute rip-snorter of a post. Needs a bump.

Yep.. Top Quality that is

[muffin the mule]

I'm not able to start a thread for some reason, so i'd be grateful if some one could start one for this.....Cheers


HJC INFO RE: WEMBLEY

After the success of our “Don’t Buy The S*n” poster day at Wembley in February, we can confirm that we will again be distributing posters before the FA Cup Semi-Final on 14th April.

There will be 20,000 posters available in red and 10,000 in blue, and these will be handed out around Wembley stadium on the day. We would ask supporters from both teams to show support and unity by spreading the word amongst fellow fans via websites, forums, social networks, supporters clubs and word of mouth, as well as holding up their posters inside the stadium prior to kick-off on the day.

We are also looking again for volunteers to hand out posters on the day, to all supporters. Please email us at hillsboroughjusticecampaign@hotmail.co.uk if you can assist.

Wembley officials and the Met Police have been extremely helpful for a second time by giving permission to distribute and display. This is a fantastic opportunity for the two Merseyside clubs to come together on a showpiece platform to get the message across. Don’t Buy The S*n.

[zero zero]

Done

[bravarado7]

This has to be here.

Gah. It was horrible wasn't it?

It's just been a horrible season, to be honest. I know we could end up with two trophies to our name by the end of it (though that looks increasingly unlikely with the sheer number of absentees for the semi-final, Reina, Agger, Lucas et al.) but it has been dire. Directionless, chaotic, frustrating. The fact is it is April and I don't believe that with a fully fit squad Kenny would be able to pick a starting XI, or at least a starting XI where all of the players would be fielded in their correct positions. What is Steven Gerrard? Because he isn't a central midfielder, yet he is being played there. What is Luis Suarez, because he isn't a no. 9 and that's where he has been played every single time he has taken to the field for Liverpool this season, even when the actual no. 9 is on the pitch. And the less said about the aforementioned no. 9 the better at this stage.

It is desperately frustrating because last season, we had the makings of a very, very good Liverpool side. It was as though you had rewound to the eighties (not that I was there), but added exotic names, pass and move football, international stars, goals and plenty of the, We were the second most in form team in the league and we went from relegation long shots to mounting a sort of assault on forth place. Eleven months on from that that wonderful evening at Craven Cottage, which in terms of pure footballing enjoyment from a Liverpool side comes second only to our demolition of Aston Villa at Anfield in 2009 that I have seen, we are an abject mess.

This is sort of vaguely how I remember us lining up last season, and I honestly had the hardest time working it out because, what I recall from that period from January to May when all the deals had been done was fluidity, was movement, was freedom in our forward play, and goals (remember those?). It was a narrow midfield, the width came from Glen Johnson whether he was being deployed on the right or left of the back four and the front four moved around alot, and all of them scored popped up scoring goals.

--------Lucas--------Spearing---------                           -----------Lucas-------Spearing----------
--Meireles--------------------Maxi-----                           --------------------------------------------                 
---------------Suarez------------------                            -------Maxi-----Meireles-----Kuyt-------
----------------Kuyt--------------------                           ------------------Suarez------------------

Indeed in the fourteen games after the transfer window shut our 'front four' scored 25 league goals, twenty-five and that's discounting a goal a piece from  Skrtel, Johnson and quite bizarrely Joe Cole, as well as Carroll's brace against Manchester City.

Player        Goals
Meireles          3
Suarez            4
Kuyt               9
Maxi               7

The period between Stoke City (h) and Tottenham Hotspur (h) was one filled with a sense of optimisism, it was an absolute joy to watch Liverpool play, Anfield was for that brief window of four months a lovely place to be. We played with freedom, with passion, with fight, with speed, with intellegence, and these weren't easy games both victories against Chelsea and Manchester United and a hard fought draw at the Emirates had to be earned. It wasn't perfect but our form was impressive WWDLWWLWDWWWLL, our performances even more so and the general consensus was that we had something to build on in the summer and with the right investment we could get back up into the Champions League places and eventually challenge for honours.

It was considered by almost everyone that with Dalglish, Clarke, Comolli, and Fenway, with stability off the pitch, unity amongst the fan base that we had a winning formula. Yet this summers transfer activity tore up the foundations of a potentially very good Liverpool side that had pass and move coursing through its veins in favour of the current mess we have seen turn out for large portions of the season. And the reasons as to why are beyond me. Out went the shithouse whose probably won more tackles that Charlie Adam this season, into oblivion went Maxi Rodriguez, the fluid style of play where interchanging positions was common place waved goodbye and a static, rigid, lifeless 4-4-2 replaced it.

The problems we are currently seeing, the nervousness across the back four, the hurried, uninspiring, uncreative play in the midfield, and the ineffective forward play has been there all season long. It has been exacerbated by injuries and in this ridiculous post-cup final lull but it has been there all season long. And to assess where this has all come from we really have to look at the summer and work our way through to the present day.

If you could have drawn up a 'wish-list' in the summer most Liverpool supporters would have said we needed, a left back, a centre back, cover for Lucas Leiva, and support for Luis Suarez. And Kenny/Comolli went out and provided the first two, Jose Enrique came in and has done well save for his somewhat fatigued performances in recent weeks, unsurprising when considering that the only legitimate cover in the shape of Emiliano Insua was sent packing. Sebastian Coates followed and that was an exciting deal was it not? Fellow insomniacs would have seen him impress for Uruguay as we cheered on Luis Suarez (hoped they got knocked out as early as possible so he could have a proper pre-season) at the heart of the South Americans defence. Support for Suarez was in theory found by the inspired re-signing of Craig Bellamy but his knees have limited his impact and ability to remian anyting more than a bit part player.

But after that our focus turned elsewhere, Adam came in as a partner for Lucas, and for 'partner' read 'the fella you leave to do all the legwork while you ping about the ball with gay abandon', Henderson came in as one for the future, a young lad many accredited as being good enough to potentially ascend Gerrard's throne, who has been shunted out on the right of midfield and gone from 'quietly effective' to a bag of nerves ironically cheered off at half time at Anfield, with moments of great technique and skill interspersed throughout. Hopefully the Anfield 'faithful' will resist the urge to beat out of him any remaining self-worth and allow him to be the talent for Liverpool we know he can be, but I don't hold out much hope.


--------------Lucas------Adam-----------------                    ----------------Lucas---------Adam-------------
Henderson----------------------------Downing                    --Henderson-----------------------Downing----
-------------------------------------------------                    ---------------------------------------------------
--------------Carroll----------------------------                    -------------Kuyt---------------------------------
----------------------Suarez--------------------                   ---------------------------Suarez-----------------


This season, from August to April, we have scored on just thirty six occasions and the front four that we have started with this season is producing very little in the way of quality, and where last season it seemed as though everyone was on the same wavelength, the current crop look like strangers.

Player            Goals
Henderson        1
Downing           0
Suarez              7
Kuyt                 2
Carroll              3

The loss of Lucas Leiva was a shattering one, it pretty much spelled the end of our league season. He is growing more and more important to the Liverpool cause with each passing week and he can't even kick a ball again, yet. And while yes, everyone would miss a player of his standard and it is understandable there has been a dip in form as a result it makes the decision not to ensure our squad had adequate cover for the Brazilian a truly unforgivable one. Indeed he shouldn't have even been fielded in the game where his injury occurred, considering the legwork he had been doing in the centre of the park and his lack of preseason. It was horrendous mismanagement, because Spearing, likeable though he is, ain't the man to step into Lucas Leiva's boots.

So that brings us to the question of where has it all gone wrong?

Tactics and personnel:
We have abandoned the offensive minded 4-2-3-1 (of sorts) from last season in favour of a rigid 4-4-2 and through this and judging by the players signed it was clear to me that Kenny/Comolli sought to accomodate Andy Carroll. £35M they had too, right?

So in came Charlie '10M for his set pieces alone' Adam for free kicks and corners, so too Stewart Downing a conventional left winger, and Jose Enrique who had linked well with him at Newcastle. But in order to do this Maxi Rodriguez, a perfect foil for Luis Suarez was dropped, and has barely featured even from the bench this season. Meireles went who likewise linked well with Suarez, as late as in our 2-0 victory against Arsenal in which the pair changed the game and grabbed us the three points.

And while Luis Suarez has still dazzled this season, he hasn't been the same threat as he was last term.

Attitude:
A wise man once said 'the difference between players is not always the quality but the mentality' and I think if our season is a testament to anything it is this, there is no fighting spirit, there is no drive, there is no leadership.

Stewart Downing is not a bad footballer, in fact he is a very good one, but he is all too content to go hide when the going gets tough. He has all the skill necessary to be a very good left winger for Liverpool, he is bloody quick, he can cross a ball, he can score goals, but he is all to happy to coast through games and go unnoticed. He is a good footballer but he doesn't have the mentality to perform at a Club like Liverpool, at Aston Villa a player like Downing flourishes but at Liverpool he has made next to no impact: 0 goals and 0 assists in the PL.

Andy Carroll, I had to mention him eventually. Newcastle was the final straw for me. I've been accepting of the fact he is young, he is inexperienced in the top flight, he has the burden of a price tag he didn't ask for and a move he was pushed into. But on very few occasions has he shown the character, or fight, or commitment that could repay the continued support Kenny Dalglish has given him.

And our captains attitude in the last two games has been unacceptable, certainly not befitting of the armband his is supposed to wear with such distinction, he spent the last fifteen minutes against Wigan hiding, and he barely broke a sweat in that 90 minutes against Newcastle, the only time he took control of anything was sending his manager packing back to his technical area, it may be a case of reading too much into it, but it didn't look good did it?

So, Newcastle 0-2 Liverpool:
The two biggest concerns I brought out of the game yesterday, as for my own sanity I'm disregarding Andy Carroll until the end, came in the shape of the continued presence of Jamie Carragher and the performance (and attitude as mentioned above) of Steven Gerrard.

The simple fact is that Jamie Carragher is not good enough to warrant a starting berth in a Premier League side, and when I say that I don't just mean Liverpool. He has started I believe 15 of the 31 league games this season and these figures are only as 'low' as they are because he suffered an injury which in turn allowed the Agger-Skrtel partnership to being, and it was only on account of it's success that he remained out of the side (though he was brought in on a couple of occasions as a part of a bizarre 5 man defensive unit).

Daniel Agger then breaks his rib (which is of course a huge loss to any side and one that would have adversely affected us regardless) and it is not Sebastian Coates who is chosen to replace him, the internationally capped, athletic, aerially dominant, former Nacional captain who is elected to replace him and garner some much needed Premier League experience allowing us to draw a hugely beneficial positive from a bad situation, but Carragher.

In the five league games that he has started in since this game, we have conceded nine goals, and this is from a defence that had been statistically superior to all other PL sides to the extent that Pepe Reina was on course to win his forth golden glove award. Now we must also consider the disruption to the right back berth since the final, but these symptoms were long before, you only have to consider the disarray away to Spurs, the penalty conceded at Stoke, the fact he allowed Van Persie the most deadly striker in the league to slip away from him twice in the penalty area, on the fact he decided the best course of action when Caldwell found himself with the ball at his feet eight yards out was to, well what exactly did he do?

He shouldn't be playing for Liverpool anymore, not at 34 with tired legs, an even tired-er mind, and when his inclusion brings the degree of disarray to the back line as it does. It is no coincidence that Martin Skrtel, our player of the season, looks a shadow of himself when paired with Carragher. The level of disorder the man apparently famed for his organisational skills brings in worrying. But the biggest reason why Carragher shouldn't be in that side is simply because there is a better player sat on the bench and ultimately the buck stops with Kenny. He has to make the call, galling though it may be for him, he has to make it, and if it's player power, he has to stand up and ship them out.

Now on to our captain, I'm sure everyone will have seen the statistics of Liverpool's form when since Gerrard returned to the starting XI and while in some quarters they'll be dismissed as part of a bitter agenda against him, anyone who is willing to look at them as 'player X', a 31 year old midfielder who has been riddled with injuries and has shirked responsibility for much of the last three years, and not Steven Gerrard the man who lifted the European Cup seven years ago, you will see there are massive, massive concerns.

Playing in a position he insists on playing in, and really we cannot continue to pretend that Steven Gerrard is playing there for any other reason than Steven Gerrard thinks it is his best position, he has looked dramatically off the pace. With Steven Gerrard part of a midfield 'two' in a four man midfield, Liverpool FC will struggle. He isn't a central midfielder, and at 31 he isn't going to suddenly learn how to be one. We can make all the same arguments over and over again if we wish but the fact is the father away from goal, the less relevant Gerrard becomes. In the centre of the park he is wasted. He can't drive at defences (because if he does - which he has - he leaves our back four exposed), he can't link up with Luis Suarez, he cannot provide the crosses, or incisive passes the will create space for his teammates. We are opting to have a mediocre central midfielder in favour of a wonderful offensive midfielder.

The first goal was evidence of the disarray in our defence. Why was Skrtel so deep? Why did both Spearing and Shelvey feign to close down Ben Arfa but neither actually do it? Why were Carragher and Enrique so flatfooted?

The second goal was testament to the lack of presence and quality in the centre of midfield, Newcastle won the ball from a broken down attack deep in their half, they then passed the ball throughout the midfield with ease, with pace and most importantly without any pressure. No pressure. In fact the only time a Liverpool playergot within five feet of the ball was when Skrtel rushed out of the extremely deep back four and then the pass to Cisse was a simple one.

As for Carroll, s long as I live I'll never understand why he went down, it was a dive. Kenny is defending his player again, and to be honest it is testament to the man he is that he hasn't slaughtered him in the press because it was an embarrassment to the Club and to Kenny Dalglish. He was shown faith by getting a starting role, he then dives with the goal at his mercy, whines and moans for the rest of the game, playing the occasion and not the game, is subbed and shows disregard to his manager and his Club by stomping of down the tunnel hurling his shirt as he did so. He doesn't want to be here, he isn't good enough to be here, and he shouldn't be here when the league season kicks off in August.

Kenny:
Quite simply isn't the problem, of course I am concerned at the lack of direction and game plan but he is entitled to a bad season and to reassess and regroup in the Summer. Of course he must take a degree of the blame, as all managers ultimately live and die by results but he has been let down by players, let down by the boardroom over important issues and has the nous to sort out the underlying problems. Last season showed he can get us playing and we don't know the dynamics of the relationship between him and Comolli to know who must take the 'blame' for whom.

But these owners are an unknown entity and this run of form and failure to qualify for the CL is disappointing to say the least. He should be given more time and more money, but I doubt he'll get both and fear he won't get either.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Liverpool in the league this season, can be described in the million words I've probably used above, or with one picture;



A bit of a flop really.

[subroc]

First things first, I'm not really Tyler Durden 

Have gone through the Newcastle v Liverpool match again and compared the pressing style and defensive organisation between both teams. The pressing system for both teams was evident from the first few minutes and followed a similar pattern for the rest of the game.

A note: it's easy to pick a passge of play to suit the point you're making - for example, you could choose a passage of play where Liverpool are outnumbered, so the right thing to do would be to drop off, delay opponents and wait for teammates to get back behind the ball ; and use that to make a point that we don't press. I have no such agenda, and would prefer it if you verified it for yourself by watching the relevant part of the match and taking into account the factors behind each game situation. Mostar has provided the game links in the audio / video thread. I have picked passages of play where both teams are organised, with sufficient players behind the ball such that the decision to press or not press is a purely tactical one.

To start off :

<a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/video/xpw6yk_livpress_lifestyle" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/video/xpw6yk_livpress_lifestyle</a>

Clearly, under instructions, we stand off in that part of the middle third. Newcastle use the lack of presure to keep the ball, and throughout the game, they either worked it upfield with short passes or played it among themselves before hitting a direct pass from there. Good teams use the space you give them there to slow things down, take a breather etc instead of attacking everytime a forward pass is on.

Newcastle's pressing system in a similar area of the pitch:

<a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/video/xpw78v_newcsatlepress_lifestyle" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/video/xpw78v_newcsatlepress_lifestyle</a>

Clear contrast in the defensive intensity, both in terms of pressure on the man with the ball and compactness of the Newcastle unit.

Newcastle's full press:

<a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/video/xpw73s_midpressline_lifestyle" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/video/xpw73s_midpressline_lifestyle</a>

It's interesting to note that Newcastle employed a high pressing system for the entire game, aided by a relatively high defensive line, Ba and Ben Arfa tracking back well and a solid midfield three of Guthrie (until his sub), Cabaye and Tiote. In that clip you can see the players pressing the ball as a team, one to the ball, one cutting out a pass option, all the way back to Pepe.

it's interesting because not many teams employ a high press for the full game. Newcastle did that, but tempered it well by dropping off when outnumbered, avoiding any futile efforts. Very well organised in that regard.

Note that we pressed their defenders and goalie from time to time throughout the game, through the likes of Luis and Shelvey, but it lacked coordination and quite often was bypassed, something that Wigan at Anfield found easy to do as well.

To the goals we conceded: note that both the Newcastle goals came from attacks built from deep, rather than being counters. On both occasions, we had the requisite time to get the necessary men behind the ball to prevent them.

Now to Newcastle's first goal:

<a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/video/xpw6t3_1st_lifestyle" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/video/xpw6t3_1st_lifestyle</a>

Note the starting positions of Luis and Stevie at the start of the move, practically in line with the ball:



Yet as the move progesses, note that Luis does not make an effort to track back, note the time taken for the entire move as well, he could have got back to support Spearing v Ben Arfa if he wanted to:



It's clearer in the video, where as Ben Arfa continues taunting Spearing, Luis is just walking back.

Next, Stevie. In the video, you can also see Stevie just walking back as Ben Arfa engages Spearing. We played a three of Spearing, Shelvey and Stevie, with Spearing in the centre, Shelvey left central, and Stevie right central.For the part of the pitch Ben Arfa is, Shelvey should be providing tight cover to Spearing, particularly against someone like Ben Arfa. Shelvey can only do that if the next player in the unit, Stevie is marking the area just outside the penalty box. Note that he takes a look to see whether it's marked:



The head movement is clearer in the video I think, it's hard to capture it just right. As Stevie's not there, he picks a cover position where he he can still close down the centre if the ball is played to a Newcastle attacker who might drop deep there. It's still not a good enough covering position for that area of the pitch, the distance and angle of cover depends on your position on the pitch, and where Ben Arfa was, ideally you are about 2 yards away on cover duty.

As it turns out, Ben Arfa beats Spearing and Shelvey goes across, and you see Stevie, just then walking into the frame:

 

Finally, Shelvey is also at fault as nowhere during his attempt to close down Ben Arfa is he close enough to cut out the angle for a cross:



It's poor coordination and individual defensive work.

To the second  goal:

<a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/video/xpw6mb_2nd_lifestyle" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/video/xpw6mb_2nd_lifestyle</a>

Again, the lack of pressure in the midfield from us is obvious in the video, from where their move started:



The video is clear, I'm just providing the images to mark the points I'm talking about. Initially, we're in an ok position, with Spearing covering Ben Arfa's pass option, at an angle to Shelvey:



The only problem is, well, Gerrard walking back. He can still get involved in the defensive unit if he wishes at this point in time, but as you'll note throughout the video, he does not. He just walks, cos he's Stevie fucking Gerrard.

Anyway, the problems start when Shelvey gets turned by Ben Arfa, but not beaten.


 By right it's Shelvey that should have gone with him, but Spearing steps in:



It results in a position where the players are practically alongside each other, and the Newcastle player behind them gets the pass -which takes both of them out of the game with ease - by making a run into that area.

Once Spearing had made the decision to go at Ben Arfa, Shelvey should have spotted the danger behind and covered the pass while still providing cover. You do that at a diagonal angle from Spearing.

These things are basics, not revealing analysis. Verify it for yourselves, and for those of you who play to a reasonable level in defence / midfield, you already know it. I remember the same point being made by my coach years ago by highligting parts of a videotaped match (videotapes ha, anyone remember those?). With ex-pros like Clarke, who would have been coached about it when he was first venturing into the professional game, it's simply poor that we're getting the organisation wrong.

To his credit, Spearing tries to catch up with play once the ball is past, but Shelvey just continues walking.

It's not an attempt to knock certain players: it's straightforward enough: this is the game situation, this is what players did and this is what they did not. Neither Stevie nor Shelvey are doing the basics of what a cm should do, and Spearing only does it to an average level. Until we sort that, both in terms of individual quality and as a team, we'll have areas to be easily exploited.

[Danyaals Kop]

Excellent, that ^

[Arcadian]

Some belters in here at the moment. compulsive reading!

[rbagg10]

Fantastic belters!

[Hazell]

Tell you what, I'd hate to be in the trenches with some of you lot.

I'm fucking sick of this. I'm sick of all whining and bitching before a ball has been kicked. I swear to God, yesterday you'd have thought we had a team of Sunday League players on the pitch the way some of you were going on when the team sheet was announced. And then you have the audacity to expect those very same players who YOU can't give a little bit of fucking encouragement and respect to, to perform to the best of their abilities? Can't you see that you're part of the problem? It's been going on all fucking season. If we're not moaning about Carroll, we're moaning about Carragher. If we're not moaning about Carragher, we're bitching about Adam. If we're not bitching about Adam, we're despairing at Henderson. And all the while we expect them to turn up, perform at the highest level, and "entertain" us. I include myself in that. I'm a bit ashamed of how I reacted to some of our players earlier this season. I'm even a bit ashamed at how I treated Roy Hodgson. What we've become is not what I was brought up on. What we've become is not how I was taught to be a Liverpool supporter.

I've been on this site for near enough a decade. That's four different managers, more cups than most clubs could ever dream of, more of the best nights in European history than any supporter has a right to live through, more angst than we should ever have to endure with our club, and more politics than should ever be a part of football. But we've always tried to do things in the right way, as supporters. I'd have backed Gerard Houllier to the last. I'd have fought to the death for Rafa Benitez. I didn't give Roy Hodgson the respect that a Liverpool manager deserved, but then we all know the mitigating circumstances there. And now we have Kenny. And I absolutely refuse to turn on him. No matter how bad things get.

You can tell me that if we continue on this path then we're building for mediocrity, and you can tell me that the players we have are not good enough for our club. And you know what? You might even be right. But there are more important things than that. And our identity as a club, the way we support our team, the things that are unique about Liverpool FC are more than short term success. Right now a lot of us have lost sight of that. I'm not preaching at you, I include myself in it. Because I've acted like a c*nt this season too. But it ends now for me.

"Ah, but if we let things go much further, we'll end up like Villa, a mid-table ex-giant", we say, like drama queens. But that's all bollocks really. We played in a European Cup Final 5 years ago. We won it two years before that. And that was out of nowhere. "But we'd won the treble not long before that..." God. If only there was a comparison to make there, somewhere.

Anyway. I'm not arguing for the "patience" that some of you seem to think is such a terrible trait. But respect? Respect is something you fucking owe this club. This club that has given you some of the best days of your life. I've seen you all on Twitter, with your sarcasm and your bitching about the arl arses on here. But you know what? They're fucking right. A lot of you are spoiled brats when it comes to football, and you're becoming an absolute joke.

Some of the things that make this club what it is are respect, patience (yeah, fucking patience), long-term vision, and togetherness. There are far, far, FAR too many of us who have forgotten that in the last few years of civil war. And it's time to put a stop to acting like kids with a sense of entitlement. It's as much our responsibility to support the team and the club as it is theirs to perform. So next time you start to type our that sarcastic post or tweet, or the next time you want to stamp your feet about Carragher being in the starting line-up (as if you've watched the lads train all week and know what's what)... have a look in the mirror and ask yourself whether that's really how a supporter should be acting?

Really have had enough of the negativity surrounding the club. I'm going to Wembley next week, and I'm going there expecting our players to fucking steamroller the blueshite all the way back to their shitty shed. And if you're not? Then honestly? You're fucking doing it wrong.

[Red_Mist]

Brilliant that from Rhi. Had to have a break from this place. Posts like that restore your faith.

[Ginamos]

surfer's analysis of the Newcastle game is an excellent read. Cheers for posting, missed it first time round.

[muffins]

Okay ... Well in, everyone who has posted or re-posted some of the brilliant stuff on here. You are all

[deadlybuzz]

Quite some gems on this page. And what a belter of a post from Rhi.

[Red_Isle_Chap]

A really, really good post with a massive dose of perspective from Juan, taken from the Comolli thread.

Ruthless say some, reckless says I.

Whilst people are lining up to praise them for ruthlessly dismissing Comolli for last summer, they’re missing the wood from the trees. The idea that the DoF is perhaps the most long-term role at the football club, and also that it was recklessness on their part initially to hire Comolli in that role through sheer nepotism.

I’ll be repeating myself a fair bit here, so I’ll just quote what I wrote about the situation last weekend:

As I’ve said to royhendo, my personal concern with Comolli – and by extension FSG – isn’t necessarily the job he’s doing but how he got the job in the first place. FSG expect patience over the stadium. FSG expected patience as they dragged out the hiring of Ayre as MD, telling us it was a long-drawn out process and how they had to make sure they did everything properly before deciding Ayre was the man for the job. FSG asked for patience as they dragged out Hodgson’s reign like death by a thousand cuts before finally cutting off the head just before United away in the cup. They are well within their rights to ask for patience, especially if they were undergoing a laborious, all-encompassing process for determining who the right person to move us forward is. It’s only right we grant them that patience, because if they’re correct then it’s to our benefit.

So what process was Comolli subject to before they decided he was the man to become Director of Football at Liverpool? How was his position decided? It is after-all, perhaps the most important role at the club. He has control over the future of the club, both in terms of transfers and the academy. Comolli also has control of the present, given he presides over the first-team coaching staff. It’s a lot of responsibility… So how did they decide that Damien Comolli was the man for the job?

Was Damien Comolli subject to the same extensive vetting that Ayre was, or did he just happen to be on Billy Beane’s speed-dial? Would it be too cynical to suggest that FSG, with all their business savvy, gave control of the football club to a man who just happens to be close friends with the man they respect most in baseball, which is of course the sport they know better?

If Comolli was subject to some sort of interview process then who conducted it? Was it Henry and Werner, whose knowledge of football would’ve amounted to what at the time? Owning Pay As You Play and having the Swiss Ramble in their favourites? Perhaps that tad dismissive, but I’m generally curious as to what the level of football knowledge was amongst those who decided that Comolli was the man for the job. That’s not because I think Comolli is the wrong man for the job, but I would like to know what exactly entitled him to get the job over some of the other candidates available.

When FSG decided that they wanted a director of football who exactly was on the short-list, was there even a short-list? Let’s take into account for a second that with Pep Guardiola and Mourinho in-situ at the two big Spanish clubs there aren’t many bigger clubs available than Liverpool who have a director of football, and those that do tend to have people who already hold a strong association with their club. So with that in mind did FSG consider Corvino at Fiorentina or Monchi? Did they only consider candidates who were out of work such as Txiki Begiristain, who was hugely successful in his time at Barcelona and had experience at running a club who were heavily reliant on a philosophy where the academy was fundamental to its future success?

My concern was given a bit of credence this morning when I had an email off someone who had been told by a pretty sound journo that Comolli’s appointment was basically suggested by Billy Beane, a baseball man, but a close friend of Comolli’s.

So here we have a couple of businessmen who think of themselves as the Thinking Men of sports business. Their first move after getting in the door is to give the most powerful, all-encompassing role at the football club to a friend of a friend on the recommendation of someone they admire in baseball. Oh yeah, we’re really moving forward and innovating.

It’s arguably a stupider call than Hicks & Gillet using Klinsman as a ‘football consultant’. Arguably that’s exactly what FSG needed. They needed someone who could help them out as they went along, safe in the knowledge that if they were undermining anyone it was a short-term manager who was deeply unpopular with the fans. The total opposite of H&G with Rafa.

But no, FSG with their self-appointed images of being both innovators and gamblers jumped straight in, appointing Damien Comolli to the role of Director of Football Strategy (and then ultimately Director of Football).

As I say, this is an organisation that expects us to grant them time and patience with decisions like the protracted firing of Hodgson, the search for an MD and the non-movement on the stadium front. How can they ask for patience, and expect us to trust they’re carrying out a full and proper search through the best candidates, when they give the role with the most power on the footballing side of things to Comolli on a whim.

This isn’t about the job Damien Comolli did. I happen to think he did alright and that long-term his signings will look better than they currently do. But that’s long-term. Whether you think Comolli pissed money up the wall this summer or not, I think you’ve got to say it is rash to give someone such a long-term role and then sack them so quickly for disappointing.

My point isn’t necessarily about Comolli though – I think he did ok, but I also don’t see what made him the stand-out candidate for the job in the first place, other than he was the only one. That’s kind of the crux of this. Whether you think Comolli was good or bad, the question should be why he got the job in the first place.

There’s plenty on here now praising their vision and their strategy for correcting their mistake so quickly, but once again they seem to have made the decision with no consultation from someone with experience in football, which is what got them into the mess in the first place.

Personally I think a Director of Football is essential at a club our size. I think a coach has to earn that level of power through success, which is what Ferguson and Wenger have done. A club shouldn’t be modeled on the whim of an individual whose job expectancy is usually two years (or at Liverpool probably close to 4-5 in the last 20 years).

You need someone to ensure that the vision remains consistent and unaltered. You need a support system to ensure the manager can do his job with people working around him. It’s about giving Kenny a platform that allows him to do his job. You don’t just give him that platform in name only and then hang him out to dry as has happened countless times this season, specifically with the Suarez case but on other issues as well.

You don’t necessarily call it a Director of Football, because that title carries a certain stigma in this country for some reason. It’s too foreign to swallow perhaps. You have someone in position to carry through that long-term strategy though. If you want Kenny to use more of the kids from the academy you have someone who says that to the press, who says that there isn’t immediate pressure if the results go wrong. You don’t have people giving us a target at the start of the season whilst simultaneously querying why we’re not seeing 5 or 6 home grown teenagers a week (ok, slight hyperbole, but you see what I’m getting at).


I could rant on this a while, but I’m arsed. I’m being asked to place faith in a long-term strategy where people are employed through nepotism, and now we’re being asked to hold faith while they correct that ‘mistake’, with another decision on a whim with seemingly no advice behind it from someone of a football background. We’ll see.

[Hank Scorpio]

Great post by Juan there.

[Joe_Singh]

Super post indeed. It strengthens my view that Kenny should be doing Comolli's job and another manager should come in.

[mercury]

Great post by Juan

[kavah]

One of my responses in the "It's finally here" thread..... fucking embarrassment to supporters some of this lot....

Can I buy a paragraph sometime?? That was struggle street just to get through the first three sentences.

Ok, you mentioned a hell of a lot of things there so I will have a crack at responding.

Psyche - I personally think some of the players may have switched off in the league and have one eye on the cup games because they are close and no one wants to get injured. I saw this in our squad during the 2009/10 season when the World Cup was coming up and some players just went through the motions. If they do they need a severe reprimand and possibly fine them and donate their wages to one of the many Liverpool charities and hospitals or HJC.

However, no one and I mean no one within Liverpool Football Club will be at Melwood applauding the latest performances in the league. You mention you "suspect" there are certain identities within the club who have said "job done" and I personally think if you have no names or proof, you are just creating unecessary controversy for the sake of it. Either name people and provide evidence or keep that sort of opinion to yourself as it does no good mentioning it.

Comparing Rafa's 2008/9 team to Kenny's now is not comparable at all. You mention Rafa nearly won the league. Kenny has won the league. Numerous times and with more than the one club, playing some of the most breathtaking football I have ever seen produced in England.

If Kenny had Xabi Alonso, Javier Mascherano, Fernando Torres and Alvaro Arbeloa to select week in, week out, I think we may have been a little further up the league than the current position suggests and we would definitely be stronger as a squad. A settled team, a team with a multitude of world class players who were all wanting to fight for their manager but lost faith in the club owners. Owners who placed a considerable debt on to the club to the point where players were being sold to service debt. Straw man argument and counter productive.

Just what did you expect this season? We brought in 7-8 players who are in the first team/squad and sold/loaned out countless others who were not in the plans for the future.

The issue for the club is that it had to clean up the mess that the previous owners had made as well as try to advance the aims of the football club and reach European competition. This is a task which I believe has proven to have a lot more time, money and energy spent on it than first anticipated. Do not underestimate the enormity of the challenge that Liverpool Football Club faced prior to 2011 as well as the added challenges it now faces from new investments being made in other clubs.

Still we have won more than Manchester City has. Just wanted to point that out.

Valid point regarding the "Moneyball" approach to some of our transfers however I do not believe that you can directly translate the baseball model for football and then complain about it. We seem to just want to use whatever approach we can to beat people up with. Baseball pays no transfer fees. It is purely a wage based system that is played on supply and demand and performance over previous seasons. It is a static game with definitive statistics. Eg - You can bat against left or right handed pitchers, you can bat left or right handed, you field in one or more positions, you pitch left or right handed, you pitch particular balls best against particular players blah blah blah.

Football has no such luxury as there are too many invariable tangibles that need to be considered which lead to a transfer fee also being involved based on potential, age, position, international appearances etc. I don't think Moneyball really promoted going out and bringing guys in on huge wages etc, my understanding was it was the complete opposite which in some ways actually proves that someone like a Charlie Adam is a fantastic "moneyball" type signing.

Just because Charlie Adam hasn't lived up to your particular expectations does not make him a bad signing. He was signed to compliment Steven Gerrard and Lucas Leiva who have not played over half a season each. He was bought to supply corners, free kicks and give a differing angle of attack because he was left footed.

He was brilliant at times for Blackpool and to say otherwise, frankly is revisionist and counter-productive. He made us look second rate twice last season and he never stop trying to get Blackpool out of the relegation zone, took a lot of responsibility on his shoulders and I think he showed great leadership qualities which we could utilise. Scottish international, has played some decent games for his country also so for 8 Million pounds, he is a Moneyball signing to a tee.

Coates, absolutely, Jose Enrique and to a lesser extent Craig Bellamy, I agree with you are considered Moneyball signings.

Andy Carroll and Jordan Henderson prove / disprove the Moneyball argument whichever way you want to look at it. As I highlighted for you before, transfer fees are highly subjective where the "original" dare I say it, moneyball principles are highly objective.

Damien Comolli was brought into the football club for this very reason. He is a supposed Moneyball disciple and had FSGs faith to utlisie this approach. However, in saying that we don't know what the guiding principles of the football business model are so to make any assumptions is fool hardy. There would be parameters in place and I would expect that these parameters will be utilised more in the upcoming transfer window.

Why weren't they utilised to their zenith over the last 12 months? Again because we were a long way behind the other clubs, we needed to make some statements of intent to supporters as well as other clubs and we needed to qualify for Europe.

We may have made some mistakes but they will be rectified in due course and some may even work in our favour later.

Andy Carroll has a 5 year contract and I think he will come good. Personal opinion but I think he has the ability to make it once he understands his role and we have a definitive style of football in which he needs to contribute. His confidence is shot. The lad has played some great games this season and then been benched. Wolves had me jumping up and down and nearly in tears for him because you can see the effort.

Everyone slags him off for lack of football intelligence but watch the run he made for Charlie Adam in that game where he took 3 defenders right so Adam could fuck it up on his preferred foot. Watch his involvement in some games. I would in fact argue he is a much more intelligent footballer than some of his team mates give him credit for. Just because he is a big, strong brute doesn't mean he needs to have the ball pinged 50 yards at his head all the fucking time.

He has some good touches, likes being involved in the interplay and because of his size, he attracts attention. Everyone can pick out individual moments to suit their argument, all I am saying is that the lad deserves support and he deserves it because he is wearing the fucking shirt and I think he is really trying. Championship - Premier League - England International - LFC - big jumps in a limited space of time.

Steven Gerrard and Luis Suarez are the types of players who would benefit from this and I just look back at the Everton game for proof that this is what this season has missed. These three with Henderson/Adam with Lucas Leiva would have given us a lot more attacking impetus. It is the sum of all parts and we never got to the play this season with all of our parts I think for any of it.

No Agger, no Lucas, no Gerrard, no Suarez, no Johnson for varying parts of the season has impacted this club enormously. The depth wasn't there and I know you have used Meireles and Aquilani but the decision had been made, the club felt they were not part of our plans and they left.

We are bemoaning Meireles leaving but in reality where was he going to play if Lucas was fit? We had Spearing
We are bemoaning Aquilani leaving but in reality where was he going to play if Gerrard was fit? We had Adam, Henderson, Shelvey, Suarez

Ok, you will counter with but they got injured but if I recall correctly, everyone was bemoaning so many centre midfielders being brought into the club not out.

The other important aspect you overlook is Torres and Meireles both handed in transfer requests. Javier Mascherano actually refused to play for us. Refused to play for Liverpool Football Club. I guarantee you now, if they had have put out a radio request for a centre midfielder for one night to play for Liverpool Football Club that night, there would have been every fucker from 12 - 65 in the Liverpool area scurrying for the boots believing that they could do it.

We had no other option but to sell them from that point on. No one is bigger than Liverpool Football Club. Not Shanks, not Steven Gerrard, not Kenny Dalglish, no one. Our hand was played and that was that.

This season has highlighted plenty of things to Kenny believe me. He is nobody's fool and he has always had this clubs best interests at heart.

He is the man to lead this club forward because he fucking bleeds for this club just like we do.
Do you think he is putting on an act everytime we score?
Do you think he is putting on an act when he looks so inconsolable when we lose?

Do I fuck.

There will come a time when something at Anfield is named after Kenneth Mathieson Dalglish. I hope it is for bringing us home Number 20.

You'll Never Walk Alone - listen to it sometime. Funnily enough, it actually means something to some of us....

[Reds4Life]

There was a response after that one ^^^^

Can't really believe I Did this and Apologies for the length no? but Redline ?

Ok, I think you are taking things a LITTLE personally? No? but I Will Try to answer you with reason and Logic? no?

Firstly, you did indeed imply that there were people at Liverpool Football Club who were happy with the performances, Here is Your Quote no?

“I don't know if anyone's already said "job done" to some extent re those factors behind the scenes but given the shambolic mess right now it wouldn't surprise me nor would their identity if my suspicions are correct.”

You then suggest it is Damien Comolli and try and pin a quote on him to suit your argument which I am sorry is bullshit and I will call you out on it. You want to write Shit then get called on it You Have to Deal with it no? All I did was to politely inform you that we don’t need hearsay and implications because it is detrimental and unnecessary.
You are enraged by the performances. We all are mate. But to just pan the entire strategy of the football club after less than 18 months with the points I made about where we have come from and where we needed to get to in that short space of time, I think you need to be a bit more of a realist than playing Football Manager and the like expecting overnight success.

It is a huge task, monumental even and I feared for Kenny when he stepped in to replace Hodgson because the manager’s job at LFC at the moment stretches a lot further than merely just selecting players and doing some interviews.

I agreed with you regarding some of the transfer strategy but let’s be honest Andy Carroll and Jordan Henderson do have the potential and I believe the ability to make it as footballers with this club. As well I again referenced the transfer activity as a statement of intent by the new owners to the fans as well as to other clubs that this football club is going to find its feet again and be a major force in world football. Agree So Far no?

This transfer window I believe you will see a more definitive “Moneyball” strategy but the problem has been over the last 18 months trying to catch up ground to even get to the point we were at 18 months ago. The train has moved on from there and we need to continue to play catch up faster than the clubs in front of us progress.
Ok, you say you don’t compare Rafa’s team to Kenny’s but then you slate LFC for not picking “Rafa” type players and then have the temerity to turn it all around and tell me you have seen Kenny win all of these league titles and act all indignant. You question whose model was right and then question Kenny’s ability to find these players (football brains, overriding fight for the cause, coolness and ability to think under pressure). Sorry but just about every scout is charged with looking for these four facets of player ability, Rafa is not alone there.

It was You who questioned Kenny not Me no? If you saw Kenny’s Team Play at All, which you say you Did no? You would see that there was no hard and fast Formation no? We played numerous systems and formations. I remember 5-3-2 was used a few times when it suited.

Mental aspect? You think that Kenny Dalglish does not know the mental aspect to win league titles for this club? You think that Kenny doesn’t have the ability to find players who he believes will walk through walls for this club? By the Way that wasn’t Rafa that used that statement, that was Shanks and that was 30 years before Rafa even came to Liverpool no?

You think that he hasn’t already worked out who are bottlers and who has it to take their game to the next level. You have a lot of baseless Accusations flying around and then you get all defensive when people say it’s bullshit. Well I’m Sorry it’s Bullshit no? You talk so dearly of mental aspect, where is Mascherano now? Where is Torres now? Did they leave because they had the right mental aspect??!! See mate it is easy to pick and choose arguments to have Isn’t It no?

I’ll discuss the mental aspect as a former professional footballer myself. Here goes. Confidence. It gets knocked around a bit here and there when you are sweating your fucking nuts off to get a chance to play first team footie. You finally get a chance and you play pretty well and think you probably have deserved to play the next game. But you get benched and you don’t play. And then you don’t play the next game. You try and hang in there as much as you can for the next opportunity but you are struggling to understand why you got dropped. You don’t want to throw the toys out of the pram so you work harder. But it takes a toll on your belief and it actually starts to eat away at you. You start playing more conservatively, you are so focused on not making mistakes that the part of your game which benefits from you playing naturally really starts to suffer. It is a steep decline for some from there on in.

We have played some players and I am going to defend Andy Carroll again here so Get Ready no? He to me is a player who thrives on confidence and a manager who just lets the leash off and lets him rip right in. He joined us with an injury. I think a more serious injury then what the club let on because you can tell these things when you have played at that level when someone is coming back. He was tentative to throw himself around, get stuck into challenges and I think he was severely lacking match fitness because he was a yard or two off the pace. His effort against Man City last season though reminded me exactly of his cavalier performance against us earlier that season at St James’ Park where he tore us a new one.

He has shown that form a few times this season. Everton away and home, Wolves away, Mancs at home in the FA Cup and just when I think his confidence is slowly coming back and starting to really flow, he is benched or dropped. Now I don’t necessarily know if it is performance or if it could be because they are managing an injury which could threaten his long-term career. But he has the intelligence, he has the size, he has the potential and I think he has the capability.

Andy has suffered from being one man out up front while Gerrard and Suarez have been in and out of the team and his performance against Everton when they were both in shows that it can and will work.

Jordan Henderson is similar but without the injury. He is being played out of position and has not had the benefit of playing alongside Gerrard and Lucas. He doesn’t seem suited to the flanks but has been thrown out there and is trying his hardest to do a job. It’s a big step up for these lads, keeping in mind their age as well as leaving the comfort zone of their home town clubs. Expectations have changed significantly. Newcastle and Sunderland may want to win all games but realistically I think their fans hope for a good cup run and a decent league position.

Don’t really follow your argument or what your point is regarding 2009/10 or 2010/11. Completely different seasons with completely different issues for the club.
We nearly went to the wall in 2009/10 and we got rid of one of our most successful managers.

In 2010/11 we install a dipshit, fuckwitted cocksucker who nearly fucking ruins us, blames the playing squad he inherited and then starts slagging the fans for not giving him the “Famous Kop Support”. He was on a one way ticket to Fuckoffsville right there, had us playing some of the worst football I have ever seen and then declares it “bwilliant”. Anyway moot argument and deflects away from the body of what you have Written no?

I will give you the limited budget that Rafa had to work with and he did an amazing job, no a Fucking incredible job, not just with the transfers but with the restructuring of the entire club. He brought Kenny back into the fold, he deserves a lot of credit for his shrewd investments and I will always defend the man because to me he was the Spanish Shanks.

Sorry you are wrong on the investment call from way back when. Liverpool Football Club broke many British transfer records the first time around for Kenny. I Think You need to go back and Check your facts no?

Where this club lost it was at the advent of the Premier League. We lost a lot of opportunities on marketing, investment and stadium attendance long before the Johnny come lately’s you refer to. We had the upper hand and we threw the advantage away. Ferguson and United thrived on this, utilised our own model against us to a degree and got very wise in the corporatization of their football club.

Not really sure what the rest of your point is because I can not for the life of me decipher it but I agree with you that it Pisses Me Off when people just throw the hands up and declare such and such is always going to be ahead of us. But my friend isn’t this what the “Moneyball” strategy is all about??!!

Mate, people are always going to hate us. And you know what? I fucking love it. I wish more people hated us. In fact I wish for the good old days when we were absolutely fucking despised by everyone. But we were respected. Somewhat begrudgingly but the respect was there.

We just have to be comfortable in our own skin because you are never going to have everyone liking you. Part of life unfortunately. We are our own worst enemies at times because of the infighting. Sometimes passion can get a little overblown and spills over. I would rather than though than meekly laying down and saying fuck it. But I have written elsewhere that there is only one Liverpool Football Club supporter and they all believe you play for the shirt.

Show me any other side in the world (Real Madrid might be a case with Felipe Scolari) where a manager has won 2 trophies in his first season back and been sacked?? What the fuck is going on here??!! Do people realise just who this wee man in the freezer room jacket who celebrates goals we score like a 5 year old (and me) really is? Do they understand his Mentality? Do they understand his Psyche? Do they understand what this man Has gone through in his life with Liverpool Football Club? It’s ok to stick your head above the parapet and have a dig anonymously at Kenny on your fucking talkback radio stations and 606 or whatever the fuck it is you call it, but he puts his fucking face on tele all the time taking the brunt for everything that goes on at this club. I personally think he shouldn’t do it because it is having a terrible effect on him but he is highly visible, he soaks it all up and he gets on with it.

Already went through the Moneyball policy, wasn’t have a go at you but wanted to temper what you are saying with some realism. Let’s just say for Shits and Giggles no? If we knew the parameters of what the club are using for their Moneyball strategy to transfers and it has the potential to cost us European football for the next 6 seasons, would you do it? If it meant in year 7 that we would qualify for Europe with a fantastic team, would you sit back humbly accepting that we are in good hands, the manager is the right man for the job, the owners are saving shitloads of money and we will eventually get back into Europe?

Again you beat Charlie Adam with the mental stick again. What I am trying to point out to you, and I will use the Blackpool situation again, he busted his absolute bollocks off for that team. He was no “big fish in a small pond”. That’s bullshit. He got to that position by himself through hard work, application, dedication and dare I say it But Yes I will fucking Mentality no? He could have just thought fuck it, United and Liverpool are in for me in the summer, I’ll just sit back and let these fuckers rot on the vine, don’t get injured and sign up for mega bucks.

Again you compare Charlie Adam to Xabi Alonso and Jay Spearing when preparing mentally. Are you for fucking real??!! What has Jay Spearing achieved in this game that Charlie Adam hasn’t??

He showed the fighting spirit at Blackpool, he was seen as a player to complement Lucas and Gerrard in midfield, he gives us an extra dimension in free kicks and corners with delivery and different angles. He was bought because these qualities added with the two players I mentioned cover all the bases for an effective and productive centre midfield.

He covers more ground than nearly any other player in the squad so I am not sure what you are getting at mate. Maybe I have the rose coloured specs on here but he has been the least of our problems this season. Huge turnover in players, disruption to a formation I think Kenny was looking at playing (4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3) this season which included the major players who have been out for long periods of the season, Suarez issue and the fallout from that have all played much greater roles in this season than Charlie Adam’s mental attitude.

No your “big fish in a small pond” comment was belittling and did not do him justice. Were you talking about how fucking great Charlie Adam had done when he won them promotion? It didn’t show how well he did at Blackpool at all, it showed a lot of disrespect to the player for him working so fucking hard.
You see, this build the team around them nonsense time and fucking time again. It’s bullshit mate. You don’t build teams around one player. That is a recipe for disaster, always has been, always will be.

You build a team based around the sum of all parts. You look for players who have the ability to complement each other, you look for a team that has a strong spine which comprises of your goalkeeper, 2 strong but differing centre backs, 2 decent centre midfielders, 1 combatative, 1 with a bit of flair and attack mindedness and a striker. Then you look for the wider players who fit the style of football you want to play (overlapping fullbacks, wide wingers etc)

I was agreeing with you wholeheartedly about Enrique, Coates and to a lesser extent Bellamy.

I already mentioned to you that the Carroll and Henderson signings were statements of intent as much as they were “Moneyball” signings. Both young, English, bags of potential and a host of other clubs sniffing around them. They never put the price tags on their heads but clubs knew they could force our hand because we were playing catch up, had a bit of coin from the Torres transfer and knew we were a bit desperate in certain areas of the pitch.

Judge FSG on the next two transfer windows to see if Moneyball has any place in football but I am telling you now, this ideal of what “Moneyball” is was being utilised by Sir Bob and the gang in the boot room for many a year before Billy Beane came along.

You mention Rafa and he had plenty of fuck ups that go along with the good as all managers do. Rafa utilised some of these players as stepping stones to eventually get the players he wanted to suit his system. This was like you mentioned a 5 year process so why be so quick to shoot down the current regime after less than 18 months? We needed to plug plenty of holes in that time so let’s be a bit more forgiving and be a bit more like respectful Liverpool Football Club Supporters Should be no?

That 2008/9 season, we did get a lot of draws and late wins because of the belief I agree with you. I actually think we over achieved in that season personally and it set the die in motion for the end of Rafa’s reign. The owners stopped spending, the interest mounted, we as fans expected the league sooner rather than later and Rafa bore the brunt of the xenophobic English media who racially vilified the man out of the English game.

However I did also see some fucking horrendous performances under Rafa as well which just goes to show it really is a game of confidence and belief no? Same players rolled over at Portsmouth. The game against Reading away are prime examples.

I didn’t say getting into Europe was a target mate, FSG stated that before the season began.

I feel that this potentially had an effect on the players before a ball was even kicked as it placed undue pressure on a squad, whom half had just joined, to gel instantly, play the same footie as the end of the season before and make the top 4.

I would have preferred to not talk up our chances, state that we are rebuilding but rebuilding fast to get Liverpool Football Club back where it belongs and that is amongst the elite teams of world football. We are not kidding ourselves, it will be a long and arduous task but we have unswerving belief in the management and the players to ensure that this club achieves that aim.

No mention of league position. No mention of expectations. No one needs to know that apart from the management and the players. Fuck everyone else and the soundbytes they want. We are Liverpool Football Club. All that did was create an unrealistic expectation which then created unrealistic behaviours which we are seeing now.
I never said parameters have been ignored so don’t twist my words to suit your argument.

This is actually what I said:

"Damien Comolli was brought into the football club for this very reason. He is a supposed Moneyball disciple and had FSGs faith to utlisie this approach. However, in saying that we don't know what the guiding principles of the football business model are so to make any assumptions is fool hardy. There would be parameters in place and I would expect that these parameters will be utilised more in the upcoming transfer window.

Why weren't they utilised to their zenith over the last 12 months? Again because we were a long way behind the other clubs, we needed to make some statements of intent to supporters as well as other clubs and we needed to qualify for Europe.

We may have made some mistakes but they will be rectified in due course and some may even work in our favour later."

Where did I mention parameters ignored? We don’t even know the parameters! I think I have already covered why perhaps “Moneyball” principles were not adopted all and sundry initially because we were playing catch up.

Again, please. We looked at signing Mario Gomez and Llorente but Torres fucked us over whether you care to see it that way or not. He put in a transfer request at the last minute, we tried to find suitable replacements from the list that Damien Comolli had put together with his scouts and Kenny and we couldn’t get them. We did sign Andy Carroll as a statement of intent, rightly or wrongly time will tell. Andy Carroll was a target of ours anyway, I don’t think we anticipated having to pay so much but our hand was forced by Torres whether you care to see it that way or not.

How do you know that Rafa’s reign has been disowned?? What a Fucking Stupid thing to say no?. Really? Why then has Liverpool Football Club been buying up some of the best young talent around? Why are there still coaches that Rafa put into the academy and youth set up still here?

Again you talk up Rafa and downplay Kenny but act all indignant when people call you out on it saying I have seen every title Kenny won with us blah blah blah. Really? What did you learn from those formative years then? Anything about Kenny? Anything about Mentality? Anything about Psyche?

He is how tough Kenny is. He fucked himself off. That’s right. He ended his own playing career for Liverpool Football Club.

Then after attending all 96 funerals for the victims of Hillsborough, he ended his own managerial career for Liverpool Football Club.

Why did Kenny do that? Because he is a pussy?? Do me a favour.

He put Liverpool Football Club first, always does, always will.

You agree with Andy Carroll coming good but have a quick fucking stab at him in the same sentence. You could not make this shit up.

You also say that Kenny is the right man for the job but then implore to everyone that we have got it all wrong and should follow the Rafa system.

We lost key personnel this season. A lot of key personnel if you go back to the ideal I mentioned about a strong spine. Nearly everyone you mention, except Johnson fits into that spine. Not just small losses to a squad, huge holes mate which we tried to plug but we haven’t. Pure and simple. But don’t tell me in the same breath that you felt defensive midfielder was one area we needed to fix immediately. There were a lot more areas of our squad that needed immediate fixing.

I never singled you out at all for bemoaning Meireles leaving, I said “we”. You see to me Raul Meireles can be used in an argument exactly the same way you use Charlie Adam.
Now I liked Meireles. I thought his interplay with Maxi and Suarez was great at times but I felt he was a liability in defence. He disappeared for a lot of games and there were parts where I thought he was an out and out shithouse but that detracts from what I am getting at.

There was one purple patch for Raul Meireles over about 5-6 games in the season. But it suddenly seems in revisionist land that he was indispensable to this club and was a regular first team player. He wasn’t. He was a squad player, did a job now and again, scored some very nice goals but I felt we could do better.

He handed in a transfer request, dare I say it, he didn’t have the right Mentality or Psyche no? and fucked off with his stupid haircut to Chelsea. Good luck to him, hope it works out for him. But seriously now, what makes you think that Raul Meireles has those fighting qualities that you so desperately keep recycling? Crunching tackles? Spilling blood for his team? Making those desperate, lung busting runs when the game is lost?? Finished article as a player? Really?!

If we can use the money we spent on Meireles and spend it on someone like Javi Martinez, would you approve of it? If we could replace someone like Meireles with a Charlie Adam and then get a Javi Martinez would you be happy? Would this not seem like the Rafa system to you? Why do you not think we are potentially doing this?
Aquilani. Don’t really know so won’t speculate on what did or didn’t happen with Alberto. Seemed a decent prospect, played well in Italy before we got him. Unlucky he was injured and never got a chance but that horse has bolted mate. He wasn’t brought in to replace Alonso, he was brought in to be the midfielder than can undo tight defences with smart 1-2 football with the strikers and attacking midfielders. 

I don’t think that your comments about Jay Spearing are fair at all. The lad has applied himself, he gives his all and he has played some supposed “World Class” players off the park and barely given them a touch. He is young, he is going to make mistakes but he will find consistency eventually and be an extremely good squad choice for us for Lucas Leiva. To say that he is behind a lot of our problems is a long, tenuous bow you draw and I think it’s bullshit. You see you argue on one hand for players with will to fight and then pan Jay Spearing. Fuck me, the lad is a fighter through and through. I would actually pick Spearing over Meireles any day of the week for a defensive midfield role – partly because the lad can fucking tackle for a start! I think you should stop there because you are embarrassing yourself and possibly getting sentimental for the Portuguese. 
Like I said, go back to the boards during this transfer window and see what the reaction was to our purchasing centre midfielders. It wasn’t crying out that we had none, in fact completely the opposite. People saw the reason and logic behind the strategy being to send out some youngsters on loan, blood Henderson, have Adam complement Gerrard and Lucas… fuck do you even watch us mate? Seriously beginning to wonder now. 

Ok. Let’s go through This ? section slowly for you.

Why should Liverpool Football Club ever, ever, EVER try to hold on to players who hand in transfer requests and try and hold this club to ransom??!!! Do you support Liverpool Football Club??!! Really?? Are you happy to have players trying to butt fuck this club at any opportunity and then you pay your hard earned on a weekend to cheer them??!! Really??!!

Mate, I really couldn’t give a fuck about Luca Modric or Wayne fucking Rooney. They don’t play for Liverpool Football Club and if they did and pulled that fucking stunt here I would expect them to be fucked off as well. You See no one is Bigger than Liverpool Football Club. NO ONE. No?

Javier Mascherano. I never twisted your words at all. Who were we going to replace Javier Mascherano with with the owners that we had, the fact that the club was about to fucking implode and we didn’t have 2p to rub together mate? I think we bought Christian Poulsen and Raul Meireles if memory serves me correct. Fuck me.

Number 20 was more a reference to a long-term Kenny Dalglish as manager of Liverpool Football Club quote rather than any infantile mistake on mathematics but thank you for pointing that out and actually proving my point.

No one is lecturing you about Kenny mate but you can see that some of your comments may lead some to believe you don’t know really what you want. You say Kenny is the man and you believe in him great. End of. No need to then trawl Rafael Benitez back into the argument and claim Liverpool Football Club have wiped him from our history, he is right about transfers, he is right about the system. You can see how it is contradictory right?

This is actually what I said:

This season has highlighted plenty of things to Kenny believe me. He is nobody's fool and he has always had this clubs best interests at heart.

He is the man to lead this club forward because he fucking bleeds for this club just like we do.
Do you think he is putting on an act everytime we score?
Do you think he is putting on an act when he looks so inconsolable when we lose?

Do I fuck.

is that a lecture? Amazed if it is. How thick is your skin mate??

You seem to want to write pages and pages but then can’t handle any criticism, even it is reasoned and has some logic applied to it when people disagree with you. You seem to wander all over the place with your arguments, there is ridiculous punctuation throughout which seems to all and sundry as a cry for attention and trying to be different for the sake of being different but then when you get the attention you so desperately crave you turn to water.

Mate, judging by what you are saying we are the same age. Really? We are both 34/35 year olds?

Lecturing you about our song??!! Fuck me I’ve heard it all.

Do you really understand what our “anthem” means mate? What does it mean just out of interest?

No one was questioning you in the slightest, least of all me. I just wanted you to perhaps go back to the song and listen carefully to the words and then perhaps apply it with liberal thought, reason and logic to what you are writing and really think about it.

Where would you say Liverpool Football Club is at at the moment? The storm or the golden sky? How do you see us getting there and what will it take?

I guess what I really wanted mate was that you stand there with your eyes closed, feel your spine fucking tingle with raw emotion as you hear the words that your forefathers sang, you feel the history, the tradition, the tears starting to roll down your face, your heart beat accelerates, the blood pumps harder and you fill up with such intense pride for the fact that we are Liverpool Football Club and we are not fucking no marks who back down on players when they hand in transfer requests etc etc.

I think you looked way too far into what I have said and taken it as abuse, it wasn’t. It was really just a simple request, not a question of your integrity, your level of fanhood, whatever. Merely just trying to bring you back to what this is all about and has always been about.

Where was the insults? Who said I didn’t think you know what it meant?

Mate, if you are going to come onto forums and spout your opinion On and On and put yourself out there, you must understand that people have just as much write to take Umbrage ? with what you right. I have been fair and reasoned in my conversation with You no? I have not resorted to insults or called you a fucking idiot so why get so defensive?

Do you accept that sometimes you can be wrong or people disagree with you?

If you can’t then you shouldn’t put yourself in a position where people can and will.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion just like you are but when you question things and people answer because they disagree but are prepared to take the time and patience to respond, sometimes just sit back, think about what people are really saying and then respond if you need to.

All the best

YNWA – listen to it

[royhendo]

Right, firstly going to apologise to Yorky, Dilks and FG if they thought I was telling them why they don’t rate players. Obviously they know why they don’t, and it’s just me getting frustrated at the Coady backlash that we’ve had this season (since the Sporting game). I know Yorky in particular has been unsure about him for a while. Really though, it’s more my frustration that people who never had these ‘doubts’ previously have now decided that Coady isn’t up to much.

Personally, I disagree with Yorky about how quickly Coady circulates possession. If he gets movement he does it quickly. If we’re countering he’ll get the ball into Adorjan quickly. If we’re building pressure and an opposition defence sits deep I still think it’s Coady, rather than Adorjan, who switches the play. I think Coady more than anyone encourages McLaughlin to get forward, which in turn gives Suso the space to move in to. I think the favoured pass from Coady is to take the ball from the left, one touch to open the body, and then play it into space for McLaughlin to move into. I think he facilitates a lot of the runs from McLaughlin and previously Flanagan (and I also think this is part of the reason he was more ponderous in possession on Thursday, along with the fact that our front 4 were very poor first half). If the right back is on the way forward already then he’ll play the pass to Suso (or Silva) and they can move in field immediately because you’ve got McLaughlin taking the player away down the line.

What I don’t think Coady offers enough of at this moment is the ability to “Play between the lines”. I don’t mean that in the Rafa sense, because I think when we’re building pressure on a team rather than utilizing quick attacking transitions (urgh) – which is clearly our favoured way of playing because it was Rafa’s favoured way of playing – What I mean is that when a team gets organised in it’s shape after they’ve got players back behind the ball after our initial break, Coady can only go sideways. He lacks the ability to play through a packed midfield. He can’t disguise the pass Alonso style, and he certainly can’t play it with the pace that Alonso did. He can’t use pace to beat a man and get behind the midfield line like Gerrard. He hasn’t got the quickest moving feet, and we don’t have the sort of midfield movement, that Barcelona do to allow him to do that. So yeah, I can see the frustration people have with Coady when teams sit in on us, because against a packed midfield and defence he can only move the play sideways. I don’t think he gets caught on the ball, or he’s ponderous in possession. Personally, I think he’s a lot more away in possession of the ball than he is when being asked to defend in midfield.

What is important to remember though is that Conor Coady is 19. Now I know people can list an arms length of players who’ve broken through by then or looked better at that age, but it ignores the circumstances.

The relative success of Rodolfo Borrell’s team over the last 3 seasons I think has tricked people into believe that this is the first lot of players to be trained in the new “Liverpool Way” at Academy level. It’s not. Rodolfo is trying to get a team to play in the image of how we want our academy to play, but he’s doing it with players who haven’t been taught that way. Conor Coady’s ‘contact hours’ growing up weren’t coming under Segura’s technical program. When Coady was coming through the U14s, U15s, U16s it was using Piet Hamburg’s technical program. This isn’t true of just Coady, but every player who player who came through the ranks before making Rodolfo’s U18 team. See, the NextGen team we had this year is a manufactured team, not one that’s been developed from a young age. Neither goalkeeper is a Liverpool goalkeeper, McLaughlin, Sama, Suso, Sterling, Ngoo, Silva, Adorjan – all these players we parachuted into the U18s from other clubs and have been taught from there. This is Rodolfo Borrell’s finishing school, rather than a team formed of organic progression and development through the ranks.

That’s not a criticism by the way. That was essential. I’m sure everyone remember reading Borrell’s interview not long after he arrived where he complained there was no striker in the U18s. Segura has a philosophy, the end goal of which was dictated to him by Rafa, of developing players to fit a certain system. The aim is to develop players for a “4-2-3-1” that’s suited for the Premiership, hence the fast-attacking transitions that Rafa became obsessed with over his time in England. Footballing Krav Maga. The goal is to get players to fit Rafa’s vision, but the responsibility for which route they take on the journey falls down to Segura. That’s his job. I mean, we know Segura wanted to train the players to play a 4-3-3 system, like at Barcelona, but that he was told that 4-2-3-1 would be how the academy plays.

When they arrived we didn’t have the players to do that, so they brought them in.

There was absolutely nothing wrong with that, but it’s gone some way to convincing some people that this is how we’ll play. It ignores that by the time these players have reached the U18s, most of them are pretty settled in the style of player they are. And that leads us back to Coady. Coady I think came through the ranks initially as a central defender. For the England U17 team that won the European Championships I think he was used as a defensive midfielder next to Josh McEachran. When Rodolfo came in we decided to start using him as, to use RAWK’s adopted phrase, a ‘medio-volante’. Let’s not pretend we haven’t had success with it at a domestic level as well. If you can find a team that dominated our U18s in midfield last season (when we weren’t missing internationals), I’d be surprised. Even the United game it was clear who had the stranglehold on the game. The key difference, I feel, between someone like Coady playing that role and Jordan Lussey who is doing it now for the U18s, is that we started asking Coady to do that at 16/17. We’re basically asking Coady to learn the position on the job. Lussey has been being taught that position since he was U14/U15 – he has been being bred for it, Coady is being asked to adapt to it and learn on the job. This is going to be true of all the younger players coming through the youth ranks – they’re now being bred for the roles they’re going to play at a very early age. Coady hasn’t had that and at times it shows. He may be 19, but he’s still only got as much education in a pretty specific role as a 16 year old might have. That’s what makes Coady a reasonably unique case in our academy I feel. I think, in a way, it speaks quite highly of how he’s rated. Wisdom aside you look at the players who’ve made the step up to the reserves this season, and all of the players that were brought through the ranks at Liverpool – McGiveron, Roddan – they’ve not been used. They’re brought out in the NextGen games out of necessity. The other players that came last years U18s are ones that were brought in, and as Segura hints at in one of his interviews, the transfer policy at youth level is very much geared toward bringing in players to fill a specific gap in the dynamic of the team. I’d use Jordan Ibe in this years U18s as a stand out example of that. Segura says we like to bring in two players (domestically and in Europe) at U18 level to fill out the gaps in the team (this year it would be Ibe and Nacho I’d suggest). The initial transfer policy for Rodolfo’s U18s was just a more intensive version of that, where we were required to bring in two wingers, a playmaker and a striker. They basically had to shape that entire front 4, and in doing so set out the pattern for how we play going forward (which incidentally, unpopular as it may be, reminds me greatly of what I think the best United team to watch was – the 93/94 one where you had Giggs and Kanchelskis causing absolute mayhem).

So you’ve got Coady learning his role “on the job”, and then this season alongside him, as if to muddy the waters further about what he’s meant to be doing, you’ve got Michael Roberts alongside him, who I think does a very similar job (but is trying to learn his role a year further down the line than Coady). Neither are really holding players in midfield. Both want to be the one that’s backing up play at the edge of box for a pull back. Is Coady now meant to be back to playing the holding role for another player? The signing of Joao Carlos Teixeira indicates it could be a possibility, given he JCT has been schooled to play as the more attacking of the ‘2’ and showed it to great affect against us. Coady has played as a holding player for England, but it showed against Sporting Lisbon in the home leg, where he was parachuted into the role and was uncomfortable playing there that he hasn’t really experienced playing the role against teams who look to play behind the final midfielder. I think Coady has good awareness for receiving possession, I think the lad knows what he wants to do with the ball before he gets it. But for regaining possession? It’s a steep learning curve to ask him to be able to read where those continental #10s are going to move. Coady’s schooling as a centrehalf further complicates the situation, because his experience of defending is of moves occurring infront of him. I think this shows massively when he plays in the centre of midfield, he wants to move forward to nick possession but unless he has a covering midfielder behind him then he’s leaving a space.

For me he’s still to be treated, even at 19, as a player who is very much developing. He wasn’t signed like Adorjan or Sterling, because he played a specific way that we needed in our system. He’s being coached to play that role. At times it really shows. Search for the victory over Chelsea at the academy last autumn and Coady had a terrific game. He scored a great goal at the end of the game showing what he offers from that position at the back of the ‘2’. He has plenty, and I think a lot of him training with the first team must be his willingness to learn and maturity, but also – and I think this is something people miss when they’re lamenting the English lad training with the firsts instead of Suso – that Coady probably has more he can learn from playing against players like Maxi, Gerrard and Suarez in training. Even Kuyt. It’s the players who run off the back of him, like they did against Sporting and Ajax. If we’re using him training with the firsts to develop that then that’s the right thing, because you won’t see much of it in at ressies level, and I’m not sure a loan to a lower league club would introduce him to many players who play like that, so why not use the firsts to educate the boy? And you know what, for all people bemoaned the lack of invention going forward on Thursday (didn’t think it was that myself. Once the front 4 came to life 2nd half we played well. Not sure you can blame Coady or Roberts for that – they provided the platform throughout) – how often did you see Petrucci for the Mancs? He wanted to run the game in the space between midfield and the defence, and did he get a sniff? Not really. United were clinical in the first half, but did they ever run the game and get at our back four in that area?

Maybe at 19 the lad is still learning and getting better.

*applause*

[muffin the mule]

HJC Leaflets


getting just 10.000 this time as we ended up with a few left over from Everton

 it will be around the pubs and on wembley way

i know its a pain in the arse but the pictures we end up getting are great

the problem is the people who normally help end up missing out on a bevy and meeting up with mates so i was hoping we could once again get people to take a few in ( hopefully 20-30 each )

i will be parked outside the Wimpy at Wembley Park with all the posters and was hoping people would takes some as they go the ground

we will also be in and around Wembley Park station so make sure you get as many as you can and just hand them oout when you get in the ground


again , i know its a pain in the arse carrying them but the whole world will be watching on telly


so take a handfull


much love


JUSTICE