Topic: Your opinions on Chinese ownership

[CraigDS]

From the echo


“I have said repeatedly this club is not for sale,” Werner said.

“I don’t know how many more times I can say it. I am saying it today and I am emphatic about it and that is all I can say.”

Close thread.

[4pool]

Close thread.

LOL

The media will drag up Everbright stories again.

Denial to the media , means they are onto something...lol.

[TepidT2O]

Close thread.

Doesn't deny partial investment though...

[Cork Red]

We also offer Alexis Sanchez more wages than Arsenal did.

he turned us down because he did not want to be seen as the replacement for Suarez.

He turned us down because Arsenal did a much better job of convincing him to go there instead.  As a club we need to come to terms with the fact that a lot of these young players weren't even born the last time we won the league.  We keep going in expecting these lads to feel privileged that we were even interested in signing them in the first place.  We need to realise that we don't have that luxury any more.   I'm confident that Klopp will fix this.

[Cork Red]

Close thread.

Let's wait and see.  If the story just appeared in the Times it would be one thing, but it's rare for the Financial Times to cover a football story unless they're sure the source is solid.

Doesn't mean it'll come to anything, just that I'd take any denials from the FSG hierarchy with a pinch of salt.

[CraigDS]

Let's wait and see.  If the story just appeared in the Times it would be one thing, but it's rare for the Financial Times to cover a football story unless they're sure the source is solid.

Doesn't mean it'll come to anything, just that I'd take any denials from the FSG hierarchy with a pinch of salt.

There are denials, and then there are consistent and emphatic denials though mate!

Unless an offer comes in which is utterly ridiculous (if the Chinese are willing to do this, why haven't they yet given its been what, well over a month since the story broke?) then honestly can't see them selling up.

A stake yeah, but then they've never hid that fact.

[JackWard33]

There are denials, and then there are consistent and emphatic denials though mate!

Unless an offer comes in which is utterly ridiculous (if the Chinese are willing to do this, why haven't they yet given its been what, well over a month since the story broke?) then honestly can't see them selling up.

A stake yeah, but then they've never hid that fact.

Booooooooooooooooooo

[Cork Red]

There are denials, and then there are consistent and emphatic denials though mate!

Unless an offer comes in which is utterly ridiculous (if the Chinese are willing to do this, why haven't they yet given its been what, well over a month since the story broke?) then honestly can't see them selling up.

A stake yeah, but then they've never hid that fact.

Werner was very emphatic, to be fair!  If they don't sell a stake, I hope they've some other strategy to improve our profile in the Far East.  We'll never match the likes of Arsenal and ManU in stadium income, and TV income is so high for everyone there's no real advantage to be had there unless you progress in the champions league.  Feels like Commercial Income will be all important going forward and ManU seem to be miles ahead there.  So much so that they can spend a fortune on transfers and wages even while being owned by leveraged buy-out merchants.

[JackWard33]

“Whether it will mean that we’re going to spend along the lines of Manchester United, Manchester City, Chelsea or Arsenal, I worry more about getting the most out of the money that we spend rather than competing in the transfer market on a pound for pound basis.

“Wins and losses are made here (points to the pitch), not in the transfer market. I’m really happy with the team that we have, the one that we’ve built over the last several years.

“We’ve spent a fair amount of money, and I think we’re going to see that on display this season and in the seasons to come.”

Mike Gordon (the fella who makes all the money decisions at LFC)

[Historical Fool]

I think He turned us down because Arsenal did a much better job of convincing him to go there instead.  Some fans need to come to terms with the fact that a lot of these young players weren't even born the last time we won the league.  We keep looking at rumors expecting these lads to feel privileged that the club are even interested in signing them in the first place.  We need to realise that we don't have that luxury any more.   I'm confident that Klopp will fix this.

[penga]

With all their money Sadio Mane still turned down Man Utd and joined Liverpool. Players don't just factor in money they also look at the sporting project and their own needs for development e.g. prospective game time, location, CL and whether they think it is beneficial to work under a certain manager. It's pretty much common sense to guess that we could spend more this transfer window as well as wages if we wanted to seeing as we had negative net spend and sold or loaned 38 players while bringing in 7. So missing out on someone like Dembele, Emre Mor wasn't because of money - we have more and can offer more than Dortmund but they chose that sporting project. Similar thing with Chilwell, Klopp decided not worth it so deal is dead -  we could easily pay a bit more if we wanted to but he didn't. It's not because of the owners.

“Whether it will mean that we’re going to spend along the lines of Manchester United, Manchester City, Chelsea or Arsenal, I worry more about getting the most out of the money that we spend rather than competing in the transfer market on a pound for pound basis.

“Wins and losses are made here (points to the pitch), not in the transfer market. I’m really happy with the team that we have, the one that we’ve built over the last several years.

“We’ve spent a fair amount of money, and I think we’re going to see that on display this season and in the seasons to come.”

Mike Gordon (the fella who makes all the money decisions at LFC)

And that's pretty much exactly Klopp's philosophy on football. What is the problem? Work smarter than the other clubs in the market and on the training ground and you can close the gap on the pitch. Do you have a problem with how we made profit in the transfer market for example? Are you honestly blaming the owners for not giving Klopp enough money to spend this window when he clearly had more money than he wanted to spend? Or are you suggesting we should sack Klopp and get a different sort of manager in who really wants to spend all available money to get players at whatever the cost?

Edit: Btw you can split our mindsets with Klopp's own words. Are you a doubter or a believer? It seems clearly you are a doubter and think under this model we cannot compete. I am a believer and I think this model can work for us. I also think Klopp is a believer and that's why he agreed to a 7 year deal.

[Carra-ton]

Bring in the new big Chinese owners I say.
The New Ever bright Ali Baba Stadium, will be bigger with galacticos to boot.

[Anfield Kopite]

Bring in the new big Chinese owners I say.
The New Ever bright Ali Baba Stadium, will be bigger with galacticos to boot.

Do we have to say Open Sesame at the turnstyles ?

[Carra-ton]

Do we have to say Open Sesame at the turnstyles ?

No buying from Amazon.

[El Lobo]

“Whether it will mean that we’re going to spend along the lines of Manchester United, Manchester City, Chelsea or Arsenal, I worry more about getting the most out of the money that we spend rather than competing in the transfer market on a pound for pound basis.

“Wins and losses are made here (points to the pitch), not in the transfer market. I’m really happy with the team that we have, the one that we’ve built over the last several years.

“We’ve spent a fair amount of money, and I think we’re going to see that on display this season and in the seasons to come.”

Mike Gordon (the fella who makes all the money decisions at LFC)

 

Heaven forbid?

[DangerScouse]

Heaven forbid?

Has that strategy worked to date? An emphatic "No" would be the answer. If things don't work out with Jurgen it may well be their time to sell. Hopefully for our sake it does.

[thelinnen]

“We’ve spent a fair amount of money, and I think we’re going to see that on display this season and in the seasons to come.”

News to me.

[ENSKIED]

From the echo


“I have said repeatedly this club is not for sale,” Werner said.

“I don’t know how many more times I can say it. I am saying it today and I am emphatic about it and that is all I can say.”

This is the same Tom Werner who emphatically proclaimed, "we can compete with anyone" right? 

[El Lobo]

News to me.

You missed the £230 million odd we've spent in the last three seasons?

[Solomon Grundy]

You missed the £230 million odd we've spent in the last three seasons?

How much have we actually recouped over the same period though mate?

[thelinnen]

You missed the £230 million odd we've spent in the last three seasons?

Whether you like it or not net spend and wages usually determines where a team finishes in the league. I have no problem with the sizable profit we've made this summer at the moment but trying to play it off like we've spent money in the year the TV deal has gone through the roof is rather cheap.

[El Lobo]

Whether you like it or not net spend and wages usually determines where a team finishes in the league. I have no problem with the sizable profit we've made this summer at the moment but trying to play it off like we've spent money in the year the TV deal has gone through the roof is rather cheap.

I couldnt give a shit about net spend, its obvious money is there if we want it and the manager has repeatedly said he didnt see value in the players he was after and just wanted the window to close so he could concentrate on coaching the players he wants.

I really don't get whats so difficult to understand about that. It was spammed in practically every transfer thread, every FSG thread, every pre-match thread. Some imagined idea that the manager wanted to go nuts with money but it just wasnt available, contrary to everything he has repeatedly said.

Unless we want Ian Ayre to get himself involved and just sign players the manager doesnt want?

[thelinnen]

I couldnt give a shit about net spend, its obvious money is there if we want it and the manager has repeatedly said he didnt see value in the players he was after and just wanted the window to close so he could concentrate on coaching the players he wants.

I really don't get whats so difficult to understand about that. It was spammed in practically every transfer thread, every FSG thread, every pre-match thread. Some imagined idea that the manager wanted to go nuts with money but it just wasnt available, contrary to everything he has repeatedly said.

Unless we want Ian Ayre to get himself involved and just sign players the manager doesnt want?

The squad is still short in several noticeable areas for a team looking to be up there this season, I've heard enough spin in the last few years to not care what the media are briefed, so I'm just looking at the balance sheet. If we fall short this season that will be the only thing people will be talking about.

[El Lobo]

The squad is still short in several noticeable areas for a team looking to be up there this season, I've heard enough spin in the last few years to not care what the media are briefed, so I'm just looking at the balance sheet. If we fall short this season that will be the only thing people will be talking about.

The media?!

Jesus wept, honestly. Time and time and time again the manager, who quite clearly isnt the sort of person to come out and tell a load of lies, has stated the opposite. The people in charge have stated the opposite. The manager has just signed a new six year contract. And then you get absolute whoppers desperate for a reason to whinge and moan, and they'd rather do it at the owners than the manager. So boom, they havent made enough money available. Job done.

[Historical Fool]

The squad is still short in several noticeable areas for a team looking to be up there this season, I've heard enough spin in the last few years to not care what the media are briefed, so I'm just looking at the balance sheet. If we fall short this season that will be the only thing people will be talking about.

That's a bit ironic considering the balance sheet will never show something as ridiculous a concept as net spend..

[CraigDS]

That's a bit ironic considering the balance sheet will never show something as ridiculous a concept as net spend..

Plus the last one was a snapshot from over 16 months ago now.

[Historical Fool]

Plus the last one was a snapshot from over 16 months ago now.

I was thinking more amortization plus wages. That's the logical way to look at it.

Why don't you stop being childishly petulant and cease being personal? Your bad attitude towards me is not helping this thread in any way.

[CraigDS]

Why don't you stop being childishly petulant and cease being personal? Your bad attitude towards me is not helping this thread in any way.

Tool (yeah, I'm getting personal!) 

[Wool]

You missed the £230 million odd we've spent in the last three seasons?

Because the transfer fee alone is the most important figure and we should ignore the other stuff such as wage caps etc which don't fit the agenda.

*I know the context of the quote, I'm just saying you can't look at the transfer fees in isolation.

[El Lobo]

Because the transfer fee alone is the most important figure and we should ignore the other stuff such as wage caps etc which don't fit the agenda.

*I know the context of the quote, I'm just saying you can't look at the transfer fees in isolation.

Of course not, but how deeply do people even look at this summers activity? We got over £20 million for Ibe and Smith, hardly a loss. We got £30 million for Benteke, hardly a loss. We got £5 million odd for Alberto who hasnt played for us for like 3 years? The money we've made this summer have been on fringe players, at best. The players we've signed have been first team. So how is looking purely at net spend this summer an indication of anything? If anything, these guys need praising for getting that much money for players with no future.

[blert596]

I think were pretty much screwed long term.

I have nothing against FSG really. They sw a good deal and bought us on the cheap, a good investment for them and a much needed change of ownership for us. Both parties gained out of it, and I think at that precise time we were the biggest benefactors.

Theyve run the "company" well from their perspective in the intervening years with the odd highlight enough to keep the average fan from turning against them, and have earned a lot of kudos for redeveloping Anfield, which has had the double edge of pleeasing the fans, and increasing the value of their asset. Everyone's a winner.

Overall, I have no qualms with them really, apart from their lack of football knowledge, and (IMO) their deliberate decision to not bring in any "football" people into a position of power. Someone who would insist on a specific way of steering the clun, not the team, in a direction to allow on the field success as opposed to commercial success. This for me has been their biggest failing - and a deliberate one too. Which makes it pretty unforgivable.

This transfer window sort of confirmed my suspicions that they were up for selling the club (before anything broke although I had heard a muttering thatthey might be willing to sell, but this was just an unconfirmed rumour.  Managing to tie down Klopp, no net spend, shedding a lot of players and wages, getting the ground done, and the increased TV funding made me think we were ripe and set up for a nice visit from Amanda. Then this came along.

I think where we are now is pivitol.

Sure Klopp likes to build a team from minimal funding and focusing on squad harmony and thats great. And for the purist (I was one once) it would be great to see us catch up, earn a place at the CL table (if its still there) and reap the rewards of that to catch up with "the big three" at the moment.

If FSG dont throw us a bone of allowing us leeway with some serious cash investment (not necessarily a "marquee player but able to outbid the top three for the odd player OR TWO and pay their wages then we will continue to fall behind.

I'm probably more worried about the repercussions if we dont take on board someone who will allow us increased market power. Not us losing out, but IF they end up turning their attention to the Evertons/Southamptons of the world, and seriously backing them while we sit and wait for Klopp to not only maintain our position, but toimprove it in an already handicapped race.

Worrying times for me.

So yeah, if they'd improve the clubs ability to give the Mancs or whoever a bloody nose every now and then in player recruitment then yeah, I'm up for them coming in.

[rafathegaffa83]

Whether you like it or not net spend and wages usually determines where a team finishes in the league. I have no problem with the sizable profit we've made this summer at the moment but trying to play it off like we've spent money in the year the TV deal has gone through the roof is rather cheap.

Spurs have finished ahead of us five out of the last six seasons. And yet Christian Eriksen, who has been one of their top performers during that period, has only just been bumped up to £70k/week. Leicester won the league last season with star players from Fleetwood Town, Le Havre and Caen. It's not always about spending money. Tactics and mentality play a huge part.  The obsession with spending money in Britain is ridiculous. Even with the window closed, the UK media are still talking about transfers. And as far as any potentially Chinese ownership group, there definitely seems to be a lot of grass is greener opinions there, assuming any Chinese ownership group would spend heavily long-term. Sovereign wealth funds like China Investment Corporations are there to build and maintain wealth for its citizens. If we were that great an investment in that sense, in which a sovereign wealth fund wouldn't mind continually heavily spending, then surely Norway's Government Pension Fund (the world's largest sovereign wealth fund) would have got involved years ago. There's also nothing to say that the PL bubble could burst, if changing viewing habits result in advertisers and TV companies declining to spend such heavy sums.

[El Lobo]

The sad thing is, a lot of this has come about from the fact that people wanted us to sign a left back and we didnt.

Thats it.

All the moaning about net spend, and wages, and whatever else. Its because we didnt sign a left back, people don't want to slate the manager for making that choice and so it needs to be aimed higher up. If we'd signed Hector, this wouldn't have got past two pages. But that we didnt is now because we cant compete, because FSG want to sell up, because they're more interested in increasing the clubs value etc etc.

[Historical Fool]

I blame Turgid. Countless repetitive posts every two pages about how we weren't signing Hector

[penga]

The media?!

Jesus wept, honestly. Time and time and time again the manager, who quite clearly isnt the sort of person to come out and tell a load of lies, has stated the opposite. The people in charge have stated the opposite. The manager has just signed a new six year contract. And then you get absolute whoppers desperate for a reason to whinge and moan, and they'd rather do it at the owners than the manager. So boom, they havent made enough money available. Job done.

This is the truth. Can't get my head around how people Klopp has been "briefed" to tell the fans and media lies about the transfer policy. You guys questioned the integrity of Rodgers doing similar but now also questioning basically the integrity of the ultimate good guy in football in Klopp? Why can't he be telling the simple truth? Otherwise how can he be completely OK with actually being heavily restricted in the market and still extend his contract to take it up to 7 years...makes 0 sense people. Jurgen believes he has enough tools to be successful and he told us to believe not doubt! The funny thing is people keep attacking the owners but keep deflecting away from attacking Klopp (and the argument goes around in the same circle) who clearly had more money to spend but didn't even choose to use it. So stop moaning at the owners unless you want Klopp out so we can have a Mourinho style manager under new owners.

Spurs have finished ahead of us five out of the last six seasons. And yet Christian Eriksen, who has been one of their top performers during that period, has only just been bumped up to £70k/week. Leicester won the league last season with star players from Fleetwood Town, Le Havre and Caen. It's not always about spending money. Tactics and mentality play a huge part.  The obsession with spending money in Britain is ridiculous. Even with the window closed, the UK media are still talking about transfers. And as far as any potentially Chinese ownership group, there definitely seems to be a lot of grass is greener opinions there, assuming any Chinese ownership group would spend heavily long-term. Sovereign wealth funds like China Investment Corporations are there to build and maintain wealth for its citizens. If we were that great an investment in that sense, in which a sovereign wealth fund wouldn't mind continually heavily spending, then surely Norway's Government Pension Fund (the world's largest sovereign wealth fund) would have got involved years ago. There's also nothing to say that the PL bubble could burst, if changing viewing habits result in advertisers and TV companies declining to spend such heavy sums.

Exactly. Leicester's entire squad cost a lot less than 1 Pogba. The counter argument is it was a one off but we are a lot closer financially to the top spending clubs than what Leicester was before winning the title and still are. So the gap is definitely not insurmountable especially with Klopp at the helm IMO.

[ENSKIED]

The sad thing is, a lot of this has come about from the fact that people wanted us to sign a left back and we didnt.

Thats it.

All the moaning about net spend, and wages, and whatever else. Its because we didnt sign a left back, people don't want to slate the manager for making that choice and so it needs to be aimed higher up. If we'd signed Hector, this wouldn't have got past two pages. But that we didnt is now because we cant compete, because FSG want to sell up, because they're more interested in increasing the clubs value etc etc.

That's a highly personalised view and of course you are welcome to it. However for your info, for some Reds the FACTS are these; besides a solitary league cup win we have not won a trophy in 10 years, we have not won the title in 26 years. The Elite of Europe seem season on season to edge away from us, picking off our best players in the process which always sets us back in footballing terms. IF we do not address such fundamental issues the club's profile will suffer and so will our global appeal, global appeal is soley based on success. If our global appeal diminishes so does our income from TV, sponsorship and much else besides, if that shrinks then we fall further and further behind. It's termed a vicious circle which in its turn will produce a downward spiral. Tom Werner has gone on record as stating "we can compete with anyone" well it's time FSG did, or if they can't or won't it's time for them to move our great club on to some else who can, for the reasons duly stated.

[CraigDS]

global appeal is soley based on success

Yet over the last 26 years, and certainly over the last 10 years (two periods you yourself mention as us being unsuccessful), our global appeal has grown massively.

Go figure.

[ENSKIED]

Yet over the last 26 years, and certainly over the last 10 years (two periods you yourself mention as us being unsuccessful), our global appeal has grown massively.

Go figure.

Being a tad selective there Craig [or is it Nessy]? taking one aspect out of a number in a post, well anyway Massively? Really? Check matters out in that time within these shores alone Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal have overtaken us in terms of club value, merchandising sales and profile, with Man U pulling futher ahead of us. Make no mistake we continue in our failure to win trophies our appeal WILL wane. As Shankly said, "first is first second is nowhere" "Liverpool FC exists to win trophies" or are you saying TGM Shankly got it wrong? Incidentally there are many clubs once could cite in establishing such a fact in this contention and we don't have to look too far for one of them, Everton hitherto remain a prime example. 

[CraigDS]

Being a tad selective there Craig [or is it Nessy]? taking one aspect out of a number in a post, well anyway Massively? Really? Check matters out in that time within these shores alone Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal have overtaken us in terms of club value, merchandising sales and profile, with Man U pulling futher ahead of us.

Not selective, just wondered if you could expand on it a little.

I mean you said it was SOLELY based on success, and pointed out our lack of it, yet over that period our global appeal has grown (even using the metrics you mention above).

[El Lobo]

Blah

Yeah.

But none of this was put out there by anyone until quite late in the transfer window, when it became clear that we wouldn't be signing a left-back.