Topic: Why we should keep Lucas?

[simesy]

You always forget one importan factor

They both wanted to leave
AS TO Lucas, he could do much better if not for Carra's hoofing . IMHO.  Try to put yoursef in his place, he is trying to play his game, which was a game of pass and move, but some fellow players never pass to him.  It was living hell, many in his place would have quitted.  He never omplained and insisted to learn more and improve.  I think the games he played with the reserves helped him, as well as the pre-seasons games when he scored some goals and has a good colaboration with Benayoun and Pacheco. 

His way was full of obstacles, and he did walk almost alone in the beginning, but he did it, and I suppose he deserves at least polite words while critisizing him about his footbll.
I respect everyone, but you have to give respect in order to get it from  your fellow posters

thats bang on.Watch games from last season and the first few this season.Carra hardly ever passed to lucas.That changed when the team realised how important lucas was to the midfield.
Anyway if caroll and suarez get 5 year contract we need to tie lucas to a long one.And unlike other players we've had i would expect lucas would honour it too.

[Stussy]

Look how it worked out. The lad we sang songs of, idolised and worshipped left us for the rentboy shite and turned out to be a classless little snide.

The lad a section of our support berated, booed, derided, harassed, swore at, and abused, turns out to be a humble, talented lad who got on with life quietly and with pure class established himself as a fulcrum of our side, and stays with us and has nothing but respect for us.

Funny how things turn out sometimes eh.

[Stussy]

Somewhere, there is a life lesson and profound parable in there ^^^

[tboz]

Real strong post form spinal tapped, and this week more than ever has made me realise that we need to cherish who we have.

But at the same time, regardless of how, torres reasons for leaving were fair. lucas along with some others can be easily replaced for better quality (not world class), yet managers have chosen not for what ever reason.

my problem is if we are trying to show players like reina that we are rebuilding, why not cash in on lucas or least bring in a better player as a starter.

[tea_tree]

Real strong post form spinal tapped, and this week more than ever has made me realise that we need to cherish who we have.

But at the same time, regardless of how, El Ninny reasons for leaving were fair. lucas along with some others can be easily replaced for better quality (not world class), yet managers have chosen not for what ever reason.

my problem is if we are trying to show players like reina that we are rebuilding, why not cash in on lucas or least bring in a better player as a starter.

Maybe you should defer to the superior knowledge of 3 managers instead of your own estimation of Lucas eh?

[Hazell]

Maybe you should defer to the superior knowledge of 3 managers instead of your own estimation of Lucas eh?

One of them did try and replace him and then realised his error.

[tea_tree]

One of them did try and replace him and then realised his error.

Precisely! Even Hodgson could see it but our fans are insistent that he should go. Absolutely bizarre. I'm sure someone like Reina would rather we got rid of the divisive dressing room elements than someone like Lucas

[JackWard33]

Real strong post form spinal tapped, and this week more than ever has made me realise that we need to cherish who we have.

But at the same time, regardless of how, El Ninny reasons for leaving were fair. lucas along with some others can be easily replaced for better quality (not world class), yet managers have chosen not for what ever reason.

my problem is if we are trying to show players like reina that we are rebuilding, why not cash in on lucas or least bring in a better player as a starter.

It would be absolutely awesome if you could help everyone out by naming some of these better players that we should swap for Lucas - because he's comfortably in the top 10 PL CMs and is probably the best outside the Champions league clubs

Also who has been better for LFC in the last 12 months? Because outside Reina I can't think of a better player for us

[Shaneee.]

For his attitude towards Liverpool alone..top top guy deserves to be here and hopefully will be here for a long time

[drpepe]

well what does that make busquets???
he isnt world class.

also see some teams are working out how to get through the madrid midfield of late.

alonso had great passing that alone does not make him world class

that's true.

actually its the world cup, euro cup and champions league medals and the fact he has played for 2 of the biggest clubs on the planet that prove he's world class.


And when lucas has produced  similar performances to xabi, then maybe he can also be ranked as 'world-class' 

[steveeastend]

And when lucas has produced  similar performances to xabi, then maybe he can also be ranked as 'world-class' 

I reckon any player who makes it into one of the top international sides, Spain, Brasil, Italy, Germany, Argentina or one of the top clubs in europe ON A REGULAR BASIS can be considered as world class. Lucas´not far off.

[drpepe]

I reckon any player who makes it into one of the top international sides, Spain, Brasil, Italy, Germany, Argentina or one of the top clubs in europe ON A REGULAR BASIS can be considered as world class. Lucas´not far off.

yeh, true.

has some way to go to be an inty shoe-in though

[stockdam]

The nay-sayers will change their views of the lad when he upends Torres.

For me he is one of the first on my teamsheet. I watch some of the players critically at times by just concentrating on what they do. He is right up there with the best in our team and he brings in quick and accurate passing plus he gets into the right places, either to accept the simple pass or to help the defence. He does the simple things well and makes them look easy..........nothing is easy at the pace of the EPL.

[Sangria]

yeh, true.

has some way to go to be an inty shoe-in though

In all the games so far of the new Brazil coach, who has the project of preparing for the next World Cup, Lucas has been the main rear pivot, in the classic centre half role (not centre back, centre half). The other players defer to him in that area of the field, and rely heavily on him to get their game going. I haven't seen the Argentina game, but zonalmarking's analysis of it says Argentina targeted him and Ramirez as the key to Brazil's play, reasoning that stopping Lucas and Ramirez will stop Brazil.

[jobba]

Won't lie I wanted his head from 08/09 I think

But feck me the lads totally improved and valuable. Fair play to him

[El Rey, por favor]

HE PUTS HIS LEFT FOOT IN, HIS LEFT FOOT OUT, IN OUT IN OUT...

[Lubeh]

not really on topic but just thought of a really annoying song for Lucas, as every other thread seems to have one !

Leiva, Leiva
When in doubt,
Stick him out, Leiva,
He'll do his duty,
and play a beauty,
And you'll thank your lucky stars you've got Lucas leiva
yes you'll thank your lucky stars you've got Lucas leiva

to the go compare song !

[sideshowme]

his twitter said he loved the reds, lucas! lucas!
his twitter said you'll never walk alone, lucas!
we bought the lad from gremio
he'll win the ball and give and go
lucas leiva! liverpool's twenty one.

na-na-na-na na-na-na-na na-na na-na....

and bounce....






too soon?

[Malaysian Kopite]

Surely the thread title doesn't need a question mark at the end of it already.

[Ramon]

Class post mate.

[scatman]

his twitter said he loved the reds, lucas! lucas!
his twitter said you'll never walk alone, lucas!
we bought the lad from gremio
he'll win the ball and give and go
lucas leiva! liverpool's twenty one.

na-na-na-na na-na-na-na na-na na-na....

and bounce....






too soon?

that's good.

[Yorkykopite]

I should share this with all you Lucas-watchers.

Tuesday night for me is always football night. Under the floodlights, on the astro. You can't beat it. Anyway, last night after we'd finished I had a quick catch-up with one of the lads on the team who I know is a 'Pool fan. There was lots to talk about! Oddly, though, conversation quickly got round to Lucas and his role in Kenny's team. My teammate didn't rate him. Lucas wasn't dynamic enough, he didn't do enough, he was too soft etc etc. I knew his broad opinion already because he'd told me at the start of the season that he was no good. But I was a bit disappointed he hadn't shifted his position after all we've seen over the last 5 months.

Fuck me, I thought, and then I had an idea. Leaving this lad, I went off to a group of other players who are also members of my team. They were in a huddle after the game as they always are - they're the youngest members of the team (between 18 and 24 or so) and they're all from western Africa (Nigeria, Senegal, Ivory Coast). They're all good players. None of them, so far as I know supports Liverpool.

"Right", I said, "I'd like to do a test on you". They all look slightly alarmed. "It's a football test". They relax. "You all know Lucas Leiva of Liverpool, right?". There's nods and yesses. "I have a theory about him", I say, "And I want to ask you all the same question". And that's what I do. One by one I ask them simply, "Is Lucas Leiva any good?". (Not one of them knows my own opinion by the way). And one by one, some with real enthusiasm, all without hesitation, say "Yes". The last lad, who's the best player of the lot and a bit of an individualist, looks momentarily like he's about to break ranks and disagree with his mates. I know he wants to, just for the hell of it. But he too says 'Yes, he's very good'. Then I say "Thank you lads. You've just proved my theory". Dramatic pause. "People who know about footy always rate Lucas".

Of course they loved that! And, then suddenly, everyone's outdoing the others, telling me WHY Lucas is so good. The doubting 'Pool fan, who's an Englishman by the way, looks at me like I've just performed a magical trick. "They know about football mate" I say. 

[farawayred]

Good one, Yorky! Thanks for sharing.

[GrkStav]

I should share this with all you Lucas-watchers.

Tuesday night for me is always football night. Under the floodlights, on the astro. You can't beat it. Anyway, last night after we'd finished I had a quick catch-up with one of the lads on the team who I know is a 'Pool fan. There was lots to talk about! Oddly, though, conversation quickly got round to Lucas and his role in Kenny's team. My teammate didn't rate him. Lucas wasn't dynamic enough, he didn't do enough, he was too soft etc etc. I knew his broad opinion already because he'd told me at the start of the season that he was no good. But I was a bit disappointed he hadn't shifted his position after all we've seen over the last 5 months.

Fuck me, I thought, and then I had an idea. Leaving this lad, I went off to a group of other players who are also members of my team. They were in a huddle after the game as they always are - they're the youngest members of the team (between 18 and 24 or so) and they're all from western Africa (Nigeria, Senegal, Ivory Coast). They're all good players. None of them, so far as I know supports Liverpool.

"Right", I said, "I'd like to do a test on you". They all look slightly alarmed. "It's a football test". They relax. "You all know Lucas Leiva of Liverpool, right?". There's nods and yesses. "I have a theory about him", I say, "And I want to ask you all the same question". And that's what I do. One by one I ask them simply, "Is Lucas Leiva any good?". (Not one of them knows my own opinion by the way). And one by one, some with real enthusiasm, all without hesitation, say "Yes". The last lad, who's the best player of the lot and a bit of an individualist, looks momentarily like he's about to break ranks and disagree with his mates. I know he wants to, just for the hell of it. But he too says 'Yes, he's very good'. Then I say "Thank you lads. You've just proved my theory". Dramatic pause. "People who know about footy always rate Lucas".

Of course they loved that! And, then suddenly, everyone's outdoing the others, telling me WHY Lucas is so good. The doubting 'Pool fan, who's an Englishman by the way, looks at me like I've just performed a magical trick. "They know about football mate" I say.

Quality! Thanks for sharing, mate!

[scatman]

haha thats quality, it's quite funny as it reminds me of a discussion with my mates, I have two who don't support Liverpool who think he's a very good player and improving a lot (they always point out games against their teams as being acid tests - one being a Manc the other a Chav), one of my Liverpool mates, fucking clueless, was happy Rafa got fired, thinks Lucas is shit and Poulsen is better (because he was wicked at Sevilla innit) and that Roy needed more time...

[Sangria]

There are 2 approaches to seeing Lucas. The first is to look at football and footballers, specifically at what you want from the players in a team. Nothing to do with Lucas at this stage. Go through what you want from the players if you want them to function together as a team that's more than the sum of its parts. Then look for players who would fulfill these criteria. Go through the top leagues, all the big name players who would cost huge fees and salaries, with egos to match. Going through these names, you'll find Lucas as one of the most complete candidates, as someone who ticks most of the boxes, both game and mental, and is probably the lowest cost of them all. Lucas the individual doesn't matter. The team matters, and Lucas happens to fit the team.

The other approach is to conclude that Lucas is no good. You then look at what you want in a player, and because Lucas is no good, he doesn't fit those qualities, and because he doesn't fit those qualities as determined, he's no good. That's how Delinquent observed that Lucas doesn't move the ball quickly. You want a player to move the ball quickly, Lucas is no good, ergo he doesn't move the ball quickly, ergo Lucas is no good, ergo... In this approach, you start with individuals you'd want, then you decide how to form them into a team.

The collective vs the individual.

[mickeydocs]

There are 2 approaches to seeing Lucas. The first is to look at football and footballers, specifically at what you want from the players in a team. Nothing to do with Lucas at this stage. Go through what you want from the players if you want them to function together as a team that's more than the sum of its parts. Then look for players who would fulfill these criteria. Go through the top leagues, all the big name players who would cost huge fees and salaries, with egos to match. Going through these names, you'll find Lucas as one of the most complete candidates, as someone who ticks most of the boxes, both game and mental, and is probably the lowest cost of them all. Lucas the individual doesn't matter. The team matters, and Lucas happens to fit the team.

The other approach is to conclude that Lucas is no good. You then look at what you want in a player, and because Lucas is no good, he doesn't fit those qualities, and because he doesn't fit those qualities as determined, he's no good. That's how Delinquent observed that Lucas doesn't move the ball quickly. You want a player to move the ball quickly, Lucas is no good, ergo he doesn't move the ball quickly, ergo Lucas is no good, ergo... In this approach, you start with individuals you'd want, then you decide how to form them into a team.

The collective vs the individual.

In a couple of seasons he will be recognised as one of the best in the business if his development continues.

Let's get him signed onto a very long contract

[GrkStav]

haha thats quality, it's quite funny as it reminds me of a discussion with my mates, I have two who don't support Liverpool who think he's a very good player and improving a lot (they always point out games against their teams as being acid tests - one being a Manc the other a Chelsea), one of my Liverpool mates, fucking clueless, was happy Rafa got fired, thinks Lucas is shit and Poulsen is better (because he was wicked at Sevilla innit) and that Roy needed more time...

Yes, indeed, your LFC supporter mate is, with all due respect to him, completely clueless.

He might as well concentrate on darts or cricket or some other sport/'sport' and leave football as he and it are not a good fit.

:-)

[Mutton Geoff]

Thank you Spinaltapped for a well balanced post, sensible approach to something that people use as some banner to follow, Lucas is not the best in his position in the prem,  but he is the best in his position at our club, just like Agger and Johnson perhaps!

[ThePrufeshanul]

Great post Spinaltapped - this lad is exactly what we need to see at LFC.

[Anfield Kopite]

Ability for me gets a 7/10 which at the moment is just about good enough for me. Attitude gets a 9/10, probably the best in our squad. So overall that makes him an 8. i.e well worth his place. Hell of a nice/good guy too. Love him.

[-Daws-]

Can't believe this is still being discussed. I still get jibs from apparent 'football fans' (mainly Mancs, rent boys and yids down 'ere) saying, "don't listen to Daws - he rates Lucas" cue some laughter.

Yeah it's real fucking funny that the only football knowledge you have is what Sky Sports spoon feed you. Well in boys.

That doesn't concern me, but what baffles me is that there are still plenty of Liverpool fans who can't see what the boy brings to our team and to Brazil. I had a disagreement with a 'pool fan in my local the other day, who reckons we should sell Lucas and drop Gerrard into midfield.

But obviously Anderson is better because he cost 18m and has a cool hair cut.

[USC19Babel]

He's playing some brilliant long balls, an aspect of his game which I think has come on a long way in the past year.

[RedGuy]

His passing has been great so far.

[Shooter]

Boss!

This new pass and move game that Kenny has us playing suits him to a tee. How good was his passing/movement to set up that Kuyt chance on the turn.

[thegoodfella]

That Lucas run near the end was majestic, should've been a goal of the season if Kuyt had put it in.

[Raul!]

Fulcrum.

[MJL]

Shown today why he is so good, faultless passing

[olllie]

Banner worthy performance tonight!

"Pass and move, the Lucas groove"

[Buzz Killington]

Shown today why he is so good, faultless passing

Definitely, keeps everything ticking along nicely and has been picking out some great passes. He thrives on pass and move football, but hey, he can only pass sideways according to some