Author Topic: Eurovision 2023 - Bienvenue a Liverpool!  (Read 23406 times)

Offline mikey_LFC

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Re: Eurovision 2023 - Bienvenue a Liverpool!
« Reply #840 on: May 15, 2023, 09:56:22 am »
Similarly, though, you have to understand that some people will not be able to overcome those flaws - the physical aggression towards women, the terrible mental abuse and abandonment of his son Julian as a child, homophobic attitudes, mocking the disabled.

And you have a perfectly acceptable Liverpudlian megastar genius in the form of Paul McCartney.

I don’t mind people having different opinions on whoever, for instance I do personally prefer Paul, but I don’t think it’s debatable that John is the bigger icon, and people having different opinions doesn’t mean saying John Lennon being a local hero is BS, is at all accurate. It’s not, it’s impossible that he wouldn’t be a local hero given everything I mentioned in my previous post.


... And he was a wife battering scumbag with some seriously shitty beliefs. Do you think everything you said somehow cancels that out? Like it's a balance sheet? I really don't care what the rest of the world makes of Lennon, I can't stand the guy and I think the Beatles are painfully overrated. Fite me, I guess.

Well evidently it does work somewhat like that, doesn’t it? Otherwise you wouldn’t need to try a tell people him being a local hero is BS, he just wouldn’t be a local hero. The fact is, the vast majority of people are willing to overlook the indiscretions of someone with an overwhelmingly positive influence on the world. Gandhi, Mandela, MLK, Ali, all have chequered pasts and controversial aspects to their histories, but that’s never what they’ll be remembered for, and that’s surely okay, because it’s the positive aspects of their contribution to the world that they’re idolised for.

As for the Beatles being overrated, you’re entitled to your opinion, but in a theatre of subjective opinions, that as close to an objectively incorrect statement as you can make. Their influence over music and the ground-breaking nature of their output is undeniable.
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Offline John C

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Re: Eurovision 2023 - Bienvenue a Liverpool!
« Reply #841 on: May 15, 2023, 10:12:04 am »
Down come the rigs, stages and rails.
But we still have our memories and tales.
Off home now, the sound and light crew.
But Ukraine...we are still thinking of you.

Bertie and Bella, they say a fond goodbye.
They are going nowhere, they'll never fly.
But to our guests, they say their farewell.
We hope you leave with great stories to tell!

Down come the stalls, at The Pier Head.
As normality returns to Liverpool instead.
But the colours yellow and blue will remain.
The party is over, but we still feel the same.

From the famous Cavern to St Georges Hall.
We've held Eurovision events, big and small.
We had Ukraine in mind, every step of the way.
The party is over, but for Ukraine we still pray.
That is brilliant Mike, superb.

Offline mikeb58

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Re: Eurovision 2023 - Bienvenue a Liverpool!
« Reply #842 on: May 15, 2023, 11:23:26 am »
Cheers mate....about Lennon, I love Lennon, he recognised his flaws he admitted them and apologised for them. He hit out at Cynthia, that's very wrong, but I don't think it fair to say he was a 'wife beating scumbag'

Lennon had trouble dealing with 'cripples' for a reason. Most of the time, all he saw on stage was the first few rows of disabled fans, after the show Nurses or carers would take these disabled fans back stage, they would urge their patients to touch 'Beatle John' in the hope of a cure.

John was a very young man with his own massive insercurities at the time, he was reluctantly thrust into many difficult situations against his wishes., that was one of them.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2023, 11:27:10 am by mikeb58 »
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Offline jackh

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Re: Eurovision 2023 - Bienvenue a Liverpool!
« Reply #843 on: May 15, 2023, 11:59:02 am »
Thought the UK one was rubbish - but mid-table rubbish not bottom.Thought Sweden was average boring shite.

I thought Finland and Austria were fun with plenty of Eurovision wackiness, liked Norway, Moldova should have been well higher purely for hilarity (and some pretty good fluting to be fair!), thought Germany was better than bottom, no idea how Lithuania finished top half as that was the most bang-average and unimaginative pop you can get (for some reason got a decent rating off UK viewers?).

Also wasn't too impressed by the Liverpool Song Book (although YNWA was very poignant when accounting for Ukraine - and You Spin Me Right Round was great too).

Liverpool done itself proud though. Well in!

Thought the Austrian entry was great fun, whilst also deserving of extra credit for taking a swipe at the music industry and the streaming services (which pay pittance and therefore really de-value artists' work).

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/ZMmLeV47Au4" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/ZMmLeV47Au4</a>

Offline Millie

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Re: Eurovision 2023 - Bienvenue a Liverpool!
« Reply #844 on: May 15, 2023, 02:45:23 pm »
Cheers mate....about Lennon, I love Lennon, he recognised his flaws he admitted them and apologised for them. He hit out at Cynthia, that's very wrong, but I don't think it fair to say he was a 'wife beating scumbag'




So a  wife beating scumbag then  ::)
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Offline Elliemental

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Re: Eurovision 2023 - Bienvenue a Liverpool!
« Reply #845 on: May 15, 2023, 03:50:59 pm »
having different opinions doesn’t mean saying John Lennon being a local hero is BS, is at all accurate.

Well evidently it does work somewhat like that, doesn’t it? Otherwise you wouldn’t need to try a tell people him being a local hero is BS, he just wouldn’t be a local hero.


Me thinking John Lennon is not a local hero is still an opinion. It is my opinion. Lennon never has been, and never will be, a hero to me. Ever. I have my reasons for thinking that, whether you accept them or not. This really isn't complicated! Also, no, it doesn't work like a balance sheet. Lennon can be a good song writer, a hero to many other people, and also be a vile wife-beater at the same time. Because that's exactly what he was. The good doesn't wash away the bad and the bad doesn't wash away the good. 

Offline mikey_LFC

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Re: Eurovision 2023 - Bienvenue a Liverpool!
« Reply #846 on: May 15, 2023, 04:26:44 pm »

Me thinking John Lennon is not a local hero is still an opinion. It is my opinion. Lennon never has been, and never will be, a hero to me. Ever. I have my reasons for thinking that, whether you accept them or not. This really isn't complicated! Also, no, it doesn't work like a balance sheet. Lennon can be a good song writer, a hero to many other people, and also be a vile wife-beater at the same time. Because that's exactly what he was. The good doesn't wash away the bad and the bad doesn't wash away the good.

Saying John Lennon being a local hero is BS implies nobody should hold him up as a hero, which suggests you don’t think that is a valid opinion, which is what I disagree with. I don’t really care if someone individually doesn’t idolise him, but to say nobody should is bold. So no, I don’t expect to change your opinion, but nor should you judge others for holding a different opinion either, which was the implication.

What I’m saying about the good outweighing the bad is that this is clearly the view of most people. Simple as that. His legacy is overwhelmingly positive because of the sheer scale of his contribution on one side.

And as mikeb stated, the parts people have mentioned that might taint his legacy were mainly in his youth and were worked on in his later life so he died a better, more well-rounded person. He staged fundraisers for disabled charities, he supported those around him who were subjected to homophobic elements in society and there is no accounts of him ever hitting a woman after his earliest long term relationship, whilst there is many records of him feeling deeply sorry for that behaviour and having changed his ways. Does that obvious development in his character count for nothing, and if so, is there no path to redemption for certain crimes then?
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Offline damomad

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Re: Eurovision 2023 - Bienvenue a Liverpool!
« Reply #847 on: May 15, 2023, 06:05:45 pm »

https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=353610.0

Just a suggestion but the Lennon stuff could be added in there rather than spoiling the Eurovision vibes.
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Offline jillcwhomever

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Re: Eurovision 2023 - Bienvenue a Liverpool!
« Reply #848 on: May 15, 2023, 06:25:16 pm »
Nah. Lennon's solo stuff was mostly awful and, add to that, he was a wife-battering scumbag; I see no reason to continue playing along with the local hero BS that surrounds him.

I liked some of his solo stuff, but he definitely had a dark side to him and it's not as if he even hid it either as he fully admitted it in an interview.
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Offline Elliemental

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Re: Eurovision 2023 - Bienvenue a Liverpool!
« Reply #849 on: May 15, 2023, 06:51:32 pm »
Saying John Lennon being a local hero is BS implies nobody should hold him up as a hero, which suggests you don’t think that is a valid opinion, which is what I disagree with. I don’t really care if someone individually doesn’t idolise him, but to say nobody should is bold. So no, I don’t expect to change your opinion, but nor should you judge others for holding a different opinion either, which was the implication.

What I’m saying about the good outweighing the bad is that this is clearly the view of most people. Simple as that. His legacy is overwhelmingly positive because of the sheer scale of his contribution on one side.

And as mikeb stated, the parts people have mentioned that might taint his legacy were mainly in his youth and were worked on in his later life so he died a better, more well-rounded person. He staged fundraisers for disabled charities, he supported those around him who were subjected to homophobic elements in society and there is no accounts of him ever hitting a woman after his earliest long term relationship, whilst there is many records of him feeling deeply sorry for that behaviour and having changed his ways. Does that obvious development in his character count for nothing, and if so, is there no path to redemption for certain crimes then?

I'm not sure how you read that into my original comment? Whereas I do think the "local hero" stuff is BS, that is strictly my own opinion and applies only to me. If people want to disagree, go ahead. I'm not judging all those tourists having their photos taken next to that statue of Lennon outside the Cavern and I certainly don't want to spoil people's enjoyment of the Beatles as a whole. But I'll stick with my boy George Harrison and stubbornly persist in refusing to use Speke Airport's new(ish) name.


I liked some of his solo stuff, but he definitely had a dark side to him and it's not as if he even hid it either as he fully admitted it in an interview.

Honestly, I think I'd ease up more if more people just acknowledged that that dark side existed. The way it gets swept under the carpet bothers me as much as the "darkside" itself.

Online Musketeer Gripweed

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Re: Eurovision 2023 - Bienvenue a Liverpool!
« Reply #850 on: May 15, 2023, 08:51:19 pm »
Was just shown a tweet, by an Everton fan obviously, stating that this Eurovision was the first time that none of the countries in the top three had red in their flag.

I think that means Everton wins Eurovision or something.

Offline Claire.

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Re: Eurovision 2023 - Bienvenue a Liverpool!
« Reply #851 on: December 17, 2023, 09:53:22 am »
Read today that Olly Alexander (Years & Years) is doing the UK entry for next years 🥰

Offline kaesarsosei

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Re: Eurovision 2023 - Bienvenue a Liverpool!
« Reply #852 on: December 17, 2023, 11:23:32 am »
I'm not exactly a Eurovision fanatic but he seems a very good choice, exactly the right vibe for it.

Offline gazzalfc

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Re: Eurovision 2023 - Bienvenue a Liverpool!
« Reply #853 on: December 17, 2023, 11:35:37 am »
He's going to be vote winner like Sam Ryder.

Offline Claire.

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Re: Eurovision 2023 - Bienvenue a Liverpool!
« Reply #854 on: December 18, 2023, 08:53:16 am »
Yeah, he'll be good getting all over the promo for it and knows how to put on a show.

Offline Elzar

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Re: Eurovision 2023 - Bienvenue a Liverpool!
« Reply #855 on: March 1, 2024, 01:15:02 pm »
Eurovision is for life, not just for when it's hosted in Liverpool!

Olly Alexander's entry -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLNUj7kvn2w

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/lLNUj7kvn2w" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/lLNUj7kvn2w</a>
We already have shit in the country, and the game of Liverpool fills life with joy. Thanks

Offline Crosby Nick

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Re: Eurovision 2023 - Bienvenue a Liverpool!
« Reply #856 on: March 1, 2024, 01:24:21 pm »
Read today that Olly Alexander (Years & Years) is doing the UK entry for next years 🥰

Must be the most famous entrant we’ve had since…Love City Groove (joke).

It’s our year! I reckon we’ll be rewarded for finally taking it quite seriously.

Offline John C

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