Author Topic: Turkey - military on the streets  (Read 34283 times)

Offline Gerry Attrick

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Re: Turkey - military on the streets
« Reply #200 on: July 16, 2016, 09:34:00 pm »

Offline Xxavi

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Re: Turkey - military on the streets
« Reply #201 on: July 16, 2016, 09:44:59 pm »
I am sad for the state of Turkey. The way things are, it is going to get only worse. Given Erdogan's history, one does really wonder if this was staged.

Well... let's see how it plays out.

Offline Gerry Attrick

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Re: Turkey - military on the streets
« Reply #202 on: July 16, 2016, 09:49:15 pm »
I am sad for the state of Turkey. The way things are, it is going to get only worse. Given Erdogan's history, one does really wonder if this was staged.

Well... let's see how it plays out.

While I wouldn't go as far as to say this was staged I do think this attempted coup provides Erdogan all the excuse he might've needed to push through reforms.

Offline Xxavi

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Re: Turkey - military on the streets
« Reply #203 on: July 16, 2016, 10:04:36 pm »
While I wouldn't go as far as to say this was staged I do think this attempted coup provides Erdogan all the excuse he might've needed to push through reforms.
Yeah, I am not there and then to say who plotted the coup, why they did it etc. But unfortunately, Erdogan's dictatorship will only get worse now, and Turkey's population will be even more polarized. This is not good.

In the end, a large part of Erdogan supporters KNOW and ACKNOWLEDGE the fact that he is a liar, he has been involved in many shady deals, and that he is basically a very corrupt dictator. I say this because I have discussed these issues (~4 months ago) with a Turkish guy I know. And his response is classic, "yeah, but the previous Prime Ministers were much worse you see... they did this, they did that". That is, previous ones were worse, so this one is a corrupt dictator, but still better than the previous. OK, let's take that, but I said that dictatorship never ends well, and it is going to get worse in Turkey (in terms of their democratic rights). He again, "well, there is no alternative to Erdogan, you criticize, but who is better?".

Again, this is a classic line, excuse that is said for so many countries with dictatorial rule. If you go to Russia, there is no alternative to Putin, in Turkey, no alternative to Erdogan, in Egypt, in Syria... you name it. I told him just that, that a dictator gets rid of all dissent and opposition as soon as he can. Of course you wouldn't know and hear from any other viable candidate. But I asked him to think for a moment, that a country as large as Turkey with its 60-70m population, or Russia with its 140m population, do they have only Erdogan and Putin and the rest are complete idiots and sheep? Of course not, these countries had Nobel Prize winners FFS. These countries will go on even after these dictators die.

Unfortunately, these discussions and debates are useless. Some of these Erdogan supporters are ready to accept ANY proof that he is corrupt, that he and his family are using their positions for financial gain. It doesn't matter to them, they are OK. It's really crazy, and this guy is an educated guy, how can he accept this so easily? I am afraid in 5-10 years if Turkey turns into a shithole, the Erdogan supporters will have their regrets.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2016, 10:07:32 pm by Xxavi »

Offline outlaw_nas

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Re: Turkey - military on the streets
« Reply #204 on: July 16, 2016, 10:07:03 pm »
Love the words used to describe erdogan and yet stay silent on war criminals like Tony Blair.

If a coup happened in America and the leader was living in turkey, no doubt America would be sending drones into turkey!


Offline Mouth

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Re: Turkey - military on the streets
« Reply #205 on: July 16, 2016, 10:09:16 pm »
Love the words used to describe erdogan and yet stay silent on war criminals like Tony Blair.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence
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Offline B0151?

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Re: Turkey - military on the streets
« Reply #206 on: July 16, 2016, 10:10:20 pm »
Love the words used to describe erdogan and yet stay silent on war criminals like Tony Blair.

If a coup happened in America and the leader was living in turkey, no doubt America would be sending drones into turkey!

Why are you talking about Tony Blair and America?

Offline Xxavi

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Re: Turkey - military on the streets
« Reply #207 on: July 16, 2016, 10:10:42 pm »
Love the words used to describe erdogan and yet stay silent on war criminals like Tony Blair.

If a coup happened in America and the leader was living in turkey, no doubt America would be sending drones into turkey!


Yeah, what do you want to hear mate? This thread is about Turkey and Erdogan, of course he is discussed. Tonly Blair is an asshole, too. OK, so what?

I love it that you cannot refute all these facts about Erdogan but decide the usual trick "but others are also bad". OK then, let's watch Erdogan fuck Turkey and democracy. You cannot say anything about him without getting jailed or at least having no negative effect. The guy is a fucking lunatic, you cannot write anything bad about him on twitter, facebook or internet. You can write here about Bush, Blair etc., and nobody will bother you.

Go to Turkey and test your bravery. Write on your twitter account that Erdogan is a corrupt dictator and watch what happens next. Then you can come and debate and refute my theory that Erdogan is crippling Turkey's democracy.

Offline outlaw_nas

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Re: Turkey - military on the streets
« Reply #208 on: July 16, 2016, 10:11:13 pm »
Yeah, obviously a fairly large segment of the public, I imagine including you, does love him. I don't think that's in doubt. But I'm not getting all of my news from Sky or CNN (actually I'm not getting any news from those particular sources) - I'm getting it from Turkish people. I teach ESL, and that means loads of people from all around the world come in and out of my school all the time. We've had lots of Turkish folks in the last few years, ranging from young cosmopolitans who could have been from anywhere in the Western world to devout women replete with headscarves and abayas. These aren't emigres, either; they're people with a vested interest in the future of their country (though they are usually pretty wealthy, which is worth noting). Every Turkish student I've met barring a few of the extremely religious ones have made unsolicited comments about how much they hate Erdogan.

Let's say they represent even as low 1/3 of the population. Erdogan tightening his grip is catastrophic for tens of millions of people. And that's not to mention the rest of the world.

People seem to forget how the religious leaders were prisons if not killed by attaturk.
Erdogan has made turkey strong and in my eyes has shown that you can have seculism and religious state live side by side peacefully.
He has stood up to the bullies(Putin, Israel, Assad etc).

Yes he has his faults but he's done more good for the people of Turkey and last night the people showed that. There's prties on the streets today.

But I guess the external forces will make him fall one day or another.

Offline B0151?

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Re: Turkey - military on the streets
« Reply #209 on: July 16, 2016, 10:12:57 pm »
The comment on Tony Blair is especially strange considering the much publicised and talked about report that got published around about 10 days ago!

Iraq was a massive talking point for years and plenty of Erdogan's critics in this country would be people highly critical of Blair - some, like you, would consider him a war criminal. It's irrelevant to what someone thinks about Erdogan though.

Offline Xxavi

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Re: Turkey - military on the streets
« Reply #210 on: July 16, 2016, 10:14:16 pm »
People seem to forget how the religious leaders were prisons if not killed by attaturk.
Erdogan has made turkey strong and in my eyes has shown that you can have seculism and religious state live side by side peacefully.
He has stood up to the bullies(Putin, Israel, Assad etc).

Yes he has his faults but he's done more good for the people of Turkey and last night the people showed that. There's prties on the streets today.

But I guess the external forces will make him fall one day or another.
Oh dear... he stands up for his interests, nothing much else. He is power-crazed like all other dictators are, cannot let power go. Was a Prime Minister, extended it as much as he could, then decided to become a President and gave all the power to himself. You know this for a fact, forget about conspiracy theories, these are fucking facts. Does he sound like a guy who will have interest of others in his head? He loves himself, he loves power, and as such, he is a populist dictator.

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Re: Turkey - military on the streets
« Reply #211 on: July 16, 2016, 10:17:01 pm »
Is Erdogan the dude who is buying cheap oil from Isis?  I heard some country down there was doing that but I don't know which one...  ???
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Offline HighSix

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Re: Turkey - military on the streets
« Reply #212 on: July 16, 2016, 10:17:13 pm »
Whatever you may think about Erdogan, its fair to say that the coup was one of the most stupid military and political moves ever.

Seemed odd focusing so much on tv & papers while leaving the internet if a genuine attempt to take over.

No idea how easy it is to disrupt but surely you do both the internet & media or neither focusing your limited resources on other targets.

Offline lindylou100

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Re: Turkey - military on the streets
« Reply #213 on: July 16, 2016, 10:19:44 pm »
While I wouldn't go as far as to say this was staged I do think this attempted coup provides Erdogan all the excuse he might've needed to push through reforms.

I'm convinced it was staged, what kind of dumbass coup leader decides to take over the country when Erdogan is out the country? it's coup 101 to grab him and other politicians simultaneously. Why attack an empty parliament building on a friday night? how did Erdogan manage to land at one of Istanbuls airports during a coup unchallenged? why did coup soldiers just allow themselves to be arrested with very little resistance despite be heavily armed? all of it coming to an end in 12 hours without much of a fight then afterwards top judges round the country are fired and some arrested, same with miltary generals and personnel. All of this happening neatly over a weekend  while the markets are closed thus limiting damage to the turkish economy.

The only thing the Turkish people have to look forward to is voting for erdogan every 4 years, just like the russians and Putin.

Offline Mouth

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Re: Turkey - military on the streets
« Reply #214 on: July 16, 2016, 10:20:54 pm »
Well, he has started blaming the yanks and he looks a bit and behaves a bit like Hitler, which was always one of the main justifications they used for going after Saddam. No problem over WMD either, they're certainly in the country. Yeah, they're on a NATO base, but still I am sure they can spin having to knock the country over for the sake of western security.

Clocks ticking, he's a fucking dead man.
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Offline TipTopKop

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Re: Turkey - military on the streets
« Reply #215 on: July 16, 2016, 10:24:47 pm »
Clocks ticking, he's a fucking dead man.
Sincerely hope so.

Offline lindylou100

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Re: Turkey - military on the streets
« Reply #216 on: July 16, 2016, 10:28:17 pm »
People seem to forget how the religious leaders were prisons if not killed by attaturk.
Erdogan has made turkey strong and in my eyes has shown that you can have seculism and religious state live side by side peacefully.
He has stood up to the bullies(Putin, Israel, Assad etc).

Yes he has his faults but he's done more good for the people of Turkey and last night the people showed that. There's prties on the streets today.

But I guess the external forces will make him fall one day or another.

If by standing up to bullies you mean kissing Putins ring then yep and last I looked Assad is still in power thanks to the same Putin. In the meantime he's had apologize to said bullies because turkish tourism is in the toilet without russian roubles.

Offline lindylou100

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Re: Turkey - military on the streets
« Reply #217 on: July 16, 2016, 10:33:00 pm »
Well, he has started blaming the yanks and he looks a bit and behaves a bit like Hitler, which was always one of the main justifications they used for going after Saddam. No problem over WMD either, they're certainly in the country. Yeah, they're on a NATO base, but still I am sure they can spin having to knock the country over for the sake of western security.

Clocks ticking, he's a fucking dead man.

Nah Erdogans ok for the time being as stability in the region is paramount to the west and turkey is a buffer, the US won't care what he's doing to his own people as long as he doesn't actively interfere in theirs. The US doesn't have the stomach for yet another war right now.

Offline Xxavi

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Re: Turkey - military on the streets
« Reply #218 on: July 16, 2016, 10:35:59 pm »
It is really becoming a joke of a state thanks to Erdogan. Due to his hatred toward Gulen, apparently, he is also trying to punish him and every one of his followers. I heard that Turkish citizens can inform about a Gulenist they know. Whether the Gulen sympathizer is in Turkey or elsewhere, it doesn't matter, apparently, they could get jailed.

This is the classic police state where undesirables are punished, and informants help with that. Unfortunately, these dense Erdogan supporters do not know what kind of monster they are creating. Erdogan's list of enemies won't finish with Gulen and Gulenists, next, it will be somebody else, and they will turn Turkey to a classic police state in no time. It seems, it already is a police state.

Offline Purple Red

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Re: Turkey - military on the streets
« Reply #219 on: July 17, 2016, 12:29:07 am »
I'm convinced it was staged, what kind of dumbass coup leader decides to take over the country when Erdogan is out the country? it's coup 101 to grab him and other politicians simultaneously. Why attack an empty parliament building on a friday night? how did Erdogan manage to land at one of Istanbuls airports during a coup unchallenged? why did coup soldiers just allow themselves to be arrested with very little resistance despite be heavily armed? all of it coming to an end in 12 hours without much of a fight then afterwards top judges round the country are fired and some arrested, same with miltary generals and personnel. All of this happening neatly over a weekend  while the markets are closed thus limiting damage to the turkish economy.

The only thing the Turkish people have to look forward to is voting for erdogan every 4 years, just like the russians and Putin.

I'm not normally one of the tin foil hat brigade but it does seem to have 1933 Reichstag fire written all over it.

Offline elsewhere

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Re: Turkey - military on the streets
« Reply #220 on: July 17, 2016, 01:45:40 am »
It is really becoming a joke of a state thanks to Erdogan. Due to his hatred toward Gulen, apparently, he is also trying to punish him and every one of his followers. I heard that Turkish citizens can inform about a Gulenist they know. Whether the Gulen sympathizer is in Turkey or elsewhere, it doesn't matter, apparently, they could get jailed.

This is the classic police state where undesirables are punished, and informants help with that. Unfortunately, these dense Erdogan supporters do not know what kind of monster they are creating. Erdogan's list of enemies won't finish with Gulen and Gulenists, next, it will be somebody else, and they will turn Turkey to a classic police state in no time. It seems, it already is a police state.

Exactly, as a Turk i can tell you are 100% on spot. Check these out. He came up with a rule "insult to president" law , for which he made it literally impossible for anyone to criticize him. Not to mention, not a single can journalist him on tv or newspapers god knows for how many years now.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/02/turkeys-justice-minister-defends-allowing-1845-insult-cases-to-go-ahead

President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan accused of aggressively using law that bars insulting Turkish leader

Turkey’s justice minister says as many as 1,845 cases have been opened against people accused of insulting President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan since he came to office in 2014.

Erdoğan has been accused of aggressively using a previously seldom-used law that bars insults to the president, as a way to muffle dissent. Those who have gone on trial include celebrities, journalists and even schoolchildren.

Critics say Erdoğan, who has been accused of increasingly authoritarian behaviour, even considers strong criticism as insults.

Responding to questions in parliament on Monday, Bekir Bozdag said his ministry had allowed 1,845 cases on charges of insulting Erdoğan to go ahead.

He defended the prosecutions, saying: “I am unable to read the insults levelled at our president. I start to blush.”


----------------------------------------------------------

2)
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/05/turkey-guilty-insulting-erdogan-160531133729297.html

Model Merve Buyuksarac given 14-month suspended prison sentence for insulting Turkey's president through Instagram post.

A former Miss Turkey has been handed a 14-month suspended prison sentence for insulting President Recep Tayyip Erdogan through a poem she shared on social media.

She is the latest of at least a dozen Turks to face such a sentence.


Turkey: media showdowns and legal breakdowns - The Listening Post (Full)
An Istanbul court found model Merve Buyuksarac, 27, guilty of insulting a public official but suspended the sentence on condition she does not repeat the act for the next five years, local media said on Tuesday.

Buyuksarac, who was crowned Miss Turkey in 2006, was briefly detained last year for sharing the poem on Instagram in 2014.

It was called "the Master's Poem" and referred to a high-level Turkish corruption scandal in 2014.

Her lawyer, Emre Telci, said he would file a formal objection to the verdict and appeal her case at the Strasbourg, France-based European Court of Justice.

"These insult trials are being initiated in series, they are being filed automatically," Telci told The Associated Press news agency by telephone after the verdict.

"Merve was prosecuted for sharing a posting that did not belong to her. My client has been convicted for words that do not belong to her."

WATCH: Turkey's media takeover

Before the verdict was announced, Erdogan's lawyer argued in court that Buyuksarac's Instagram post had gone beyond "the limits of criticism" and amounted to "an attack" on the Turkish leader's personal rights, the state-run Anadolu Agency reported.

Insulting the president is a crime punishable by up to four years in jail in Turkey. The law was used infrequently until Erdogan became president in August 2014, since which time prosecutors have opened more than 1,800 cases for insulting him, including against cartoonists, journalists and teenagers.

Prosecutors are also pursuing a case against a German comedian who mocked Erdogan on German television.

----------------------------------------------

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32302697

The problem with insulting Turkey's President Erdogan
« Last Edit: July 17, 2016, 01:59:14 am by elsewhere »

Offline elsewhere

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Re: Turkey - military on the streets
« Reply #221 on: July 17, 2016, 01:52:47 am »
and whoever was thinking he is clean/honest person and surprised to hear someone calls him corrupt; he has over 10 billion$ of assets since being in power, his wife and kids had nothing before that. Now they have ship companies, private hospital ownerships, construction firms valued more than a few hundred million dollars. check this on wikipedia

2013 corruption scandal in Turkey

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_corruption_scandal_in_Turkey

The 2013 corruption scandal in Turkey refers to a criminal investigation that involves several key people in the Turkish government. All of the 52 people detained on 17 December were connected in various ways with the ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP). Prosecutors accused 14 people – including Suleyman Aslan, the director of state-owned Halkbank, Iranian businessman Reza Zarrab, and several family members of cabinet ministers – of bribery, corruption, fraud, money laundering and gold smuggling.[1]

At the heart of the scandal was an alleged "gas for gold" scheme with Iran involving Aslan, who had US$4.5 million in cash stored in shoeboxes in his home, and Zarrab, who was involved in about US$9.6 billion of gold trading in 2012. Both men were arrested.[2] The scheme worked after officials of the Turkish government found a loophole in U.S. sanctions against Iran that allowed them to get Iranian oil and gas. The Turks exported some US$13 billion of gold to Iran directly, or through the UAE, between March 2012 and July 2013. In return, the Turks received Iranian natural gas and oil. The transaction was carried out through Turkish state-owned bank, Halkbank. In January 2013, the Obama administration decided to close this loophole but instead of immediately charging Halkbank, the U.S. government allowed its gold trading activities to continue until July 2013, because Turkey was an important U.S. ally regarding U.S. policy in the Syrian Civil War, and the U.S. had been working on a nuclear deal with Iran.[2]

Then-Prime Minister Erdoğan (now President of Turkey) was out on a foreign tour of Pakistan when the scandal broke, which analysts believe changed the response of the AK Party or influenced those with the tapes to leak them at a time when Erdoğan was touring a key ally (Pakistan) abroad.[3]

Second wave[edit]
Several newspapers reported that a new investigation was expected on 26 December, possibly involving then-Prime Minister (now President of Turkey) Erdoğan's sons, Bilal Erdoğan and Burak,[13] as well as certain Al-Qaeda affiliates from Saudi Arabia such as Sheikh Yaseen Al Qadi and Osama Khoutub.[14] The police officers in Istanbul Security Directorate, newly appointed by the government just a few days previously, refused to carry out their orders, and the Deputy Director of Public Prosecutions did not approve this new operation. The man behind this second investigation, Prosecutor Muammer Akkaş, was dismissed on the same day.[15] Akkaş said he was prevented from performing his duty.[16]

A second wave of arrests was planned, and a list was leaked to the press.[17]

At midnight on 7 January, a government decree was published removing 350 police officers from their positions, including the chiefs of the units dealing with financial crimes, smuggling and organised crime.[18] Islamic community leader Fethullah Gülen described the decree as a purge of civil servants, while then-Prime Minister Erdoğan (now President of Turkey) described the corruption investigation as a "judicial coup" by those jealous of his success, namely the former's secretive Gülen movement, backed by foreigners.[19]

Since the beginning of the investigation, the Justice and Development Party (AKP) government has started a purge in the police force; sacking dozens of police chiefs, most notably Hüseyin Çapkın, the Chief of Police in Istanbul.[20] The Ministry of the Interior and the Ministry of Justice also changed their regulations, forcing security forces to inform their seniors of their actions at all times.[21] This received criticism from the Union of Turkish Bar Associations, who are taking the case to the Turkish Council of State.[22] The Turkish Council of State overturned the change of these regulations on 27 December, much to the disappointment of Prime Minister Erdoğan.[23]

Various opposition sources accused the government of trying to influence the judiciary system and covering up the corruption. Among them was the Nationalist Movement Party MP Oktay Vural.[24] A heated controversy erupted after the release on YouTube of audio recordings in which Erdogan was reportedly heard telling his son, Bilal, to urgently get rid of tens of millions of dollars. Erdogan has claimed the recordings were a montage but the experts begged to differ.[1]

Erdoğan blamed the investigation on an international conspiracy and vowed revenge on the Islamic community of the preacher Fethullah Gülen.[27] There had been an antagonism between Erdoğan and Gülen for some time: Hakan Şükür, who is often regarded as a disciple of Gülen, had resigned his post in Justice and Development Party on 16 December.[28] Government officials accused Gulen and his followers of treason and started referring to them as "terrorists."[1]

Erdogan defended Halkbank chief executive Süleyman Aslan, describing him as "honest person". Aslan was charged with taking bribes by the prosecutors while the police are said to reportedly have found US$4.5 million in cash stored in shoe boxes in Aslan’s home.[29] After Aslan was arrested the bank's stock went down 32% for the year.[30] Erdoğan also threatened Francis Ricciardone, the U.S. ambassador to Turkey, with expulsion.[31]

Erdoğan left the country for an official visit to Pakistan on 23 December, while the scandal was dominating the headlines.[3]

Erdogan's government dismissed or reassigned thousands of police officers and hundreds of judges and prosecutors - including those leading the investigation - and passed a law increasing government control of the judiciary.[43]

Offline Xxavi

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Re: Turkey - military on the streets
« Reply #222 on: July 17, 2016, 01:57:00 am »
.
It's a scary, scary road Turkey are on right now. And many Turks don't realize this because they believe Erdogan's lies about Gulen and his followers. Fine, Gulen is an old guy, he will die sooner or later, probably sooner anyway. Will that be the end of Erdogan's enemy list? Will the country go back to being democratic and open? Nah, it won't. The guy is gathering more and more power, and unfortunately for Turkey, even if Erdogan dies, the next person in his position will not willingly give away all the power available. So it will be a continuing dictatorship.

Can't they see so many countries in that region that are dictatorships? There is no end to that. Gulen is a convenient outside enemy, and I don't believe he is as powerful as Erdogan is making him out to be.

I am also baffled that here in the US, there are a bunch of Erdogan supporting Turks who are making statements supporting Erdogan and his views. Apparently, they are even thinking of going to Pennsylvania and staging demonstrations (haven't checked if they actually did). Do these idiots realize that Erdogan is now declaring the US an enemy? He has been hinting that for years, but he did it again after the coup attempt. So if these Erdogan sympathizers are in agreement with their dear leader Erdogan, then they should get the fuck out of here and go back and live under his rule. There I said it. Yeah, you don't like the US harboring a political asylum seeker, a person with no voice who is blamed by a tyrant for all the problems of his country, and you think Erdogan is not a lunatic in his blames of the US, fine then, fuck off.

Offline Xxavi

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Re: Turkey - military on the streets
« Reply #223 on: July 17, 2016, 02:12:36 am »
It's also funny that Erdogan is trying to show his power to the world. What power? You are showing your bare ass man. First Russia, now the US. It is one thing if you have something to backup your bravado. Just because you (correctly) believe that turning the world into a further shithole is in nobody's interest, it doesn't mean that you have to go around acting like a mad dog barking at everybody FFS.

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Re: Turkey - military on the streets
« Reply #224 on: July 17, 2016, 02:27:12 am »
good article by Finked

Turkey was already undergoing a slow-motion coup – by Erdoğan, not the army
Andrew Finkel

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/16/turkey-coup-army-erdogan?CMP=share_btn_fb

What happens in Turkey matters. It is a G20 economy in a sensitive part of the world, sharing borders with Iraq, Iran and Syria. Turkey is an asset to its Nato partners when it is able to exercise a leadership role. It can be a liability when its own problems – like the tension with its Kurdish population – spill over those frontiers. And it can be a millstone around the world’s neck when it decides, as it did on Friday, to self-harm.

The coup attempt that night was, by any account, a cack-handed affair. It was an attempt to grab the reins of a complex society with the almost quaintly antediluvian tactics of seizing the state television station and rolling some tanks on to the streets. It is as if the plotters had never heard of social media, while the Turkish president himself to addressed his supporters via FaceTime, urging them out on the streets. Crowds played chicken with the putschists, betting they would return to their barracks rather than have the streets run red with blood. Even then, at least 180 people – civilians, police and coup makers – died.

Indeed, the question is less why the coup failed than why it was ever carried out. If it had an air of amateur desperation, it is because its perpetrators probably assumed that this was their last chance to stop the government of President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan from getting the military completely under its control. At the beginning of August, the military high council will meet, as it does every year, to consider who gets promoted, retired or pushed aside. In the last few days, the pro-government press has been more than hinting that a spring cleaning of the ranks is long overdue.

Indeed, many would argue that Turkey was already in the throes of a slow motion coup d’état, not by the military but by Erdoğan himself. For the last three years, he has been moving, and methodically, to take over the nodes of power.

The pressures on the media have been well documented, as the country slides in international ratings by organisations such as Freedom House, from partly free to not free at all. Opposition newspapers have been taken over by court-appointed administrators. Dissident television stations have had the plug pulled from satellites; digital platforms are no longer seen in people’s homes. Erdoğan curses the very social media which this weekend helped to save his skin.

Increasingly, the government has put the judiciary under its thumb. It is now a brave judge who rules in a way he knows will give official offence. So while the Turkish parliament congratulated itself on a long night’s defence of democracy, many wonder why its members connived in the decline of the rule of law.

nd still Erdoğan craves greater authority. Last May, he discarded one prime minister in favour of another more sympathetic to his plans to change the parliamentary system into a strong executive presidency. When the coup plotters stand trial, they may suffer the additional indignation of seeing their attempts to put Erdoğan in his place backfire, by providing a mandate for such increased powers. The president has already promised a purge of those still connected to the exiled dissident cleric Fethullah Gülen – Erdoğanspeak for anyone who opposes his will.

To the outside world, this spectacle should cause dismay. Turkish ambitions to project power, to assist in the fight against Islamic State, to help forge a settlement in Syria will be much harder to realise if the government is at war with its own military and the army at war with itself. A Turkey that governs through consensus is the more valuable ally. The Turkish economy, too, will be more buoyant if relieved of the weight of political risk.

The lesson of the failed coup is that Turkey needs a leader who can bring different sides of a divided society together – or at the very least, one who is willing to try.

Offline SP

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Re: Turkey - military on the streets
« Reply #225 on: July 17, 2016, 02:32:31 am »
People seem to forget how the religious leaders were prisons if not killed by attaturk.
Erdogan has made turkey strong and in my eyes has shown that you can have seculism and religious state live side by side peacefully.
He has stood up to the bullies(Putin, Israel, Assad etc).

Yes he has his faults but he's done more good for the people of Turkey and last night the people showed that. There's prties on the streets today.

But I guess the external forces will make him fall one day or another.

Ah, the Mussolini made the trains run on time argument. Always good to give the classics an airing.

Offline cptrios

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Re: Turkey - military on the streets
« Reply #226 on: July 17, 2016, 02:42:27 am »
Whatever you may think about Erdogan, its fair to say that the coup was one of the most stupid military and political moves ever.

Except that it wasn't, at all. Maybe stupid for the people directly involved at a certain level, sure, but anyone who looks at this and doesn't see Erdogan's fingerprints all over it is being willfully ignorant. It doesn't even require a single square centimeter of tinfoil upon the head.

- Erdogan somehow manages to leave his vacation home (or hotel or whatever) unscathed, then lands at Istanbul and feels totally comfortable walking through a massive crowd of people without a security detail. The military, despite theoretically flying some F-15s around and being, you know, the military, fails to do so much as leave one guy with a Stinger missile at the airport.

- Said army, despite being armed with assault rifles and tanks, manage to get themselves rounded up by the police. Some reports even suggest that many of the soldiers' guns had no ammunition.

- Did I mention the tanks? Only a few of them actually do anything, and several are taken over by civilians in the streets (I don't know anything about tanks, but I can't imagine that's an easy thing to do). If they'd really all been under orders to fire on people, as the existence of civilian deaths would suggest, we'd be talking about thousands of casualties right now, but..

- ...there were fewer than 200. Just enough to ensure nobody's going to feel good about supporting the rebels.

- That's not to mention the remarkably quick coordination Erdogan managed both during and after the coup, which has been discussed plenty.

Kingz and outlaw_nas and any other Erdogan supporters who might be around, do you really look at this and not see anything slightly suspicious? And do you really feel good about your colleagues, in your first-world country with all of that strong economy and global respect you've been talking about, cutting off soldiers' fucking heads like a gang of barbarians?

And no, I don't really expect an answer to that, given that you quite literally could be put in jail for agreeing with me. I really, really hope that you guys come out of all of this alright, whoever you support. It's completely terrifying.

Offline cricketrocks

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Re: Turkey - military on the streets
« Reply #227 on: July 17, 2016, 08:52:43 am »
Exactly, as a Turk i can tell you are 100% on spot. Check these out. He came up with a rule "insult to president" law , for which he made it literally impossible for anyone to criticize him. Not to mention, not a single can journalist him on tv or newspapers god knows for how many years now.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/02/turkeys-justice-minister-defends-allowing-1845-insult-cases-to-go-ahead

President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan accused of aggressively using law that bars insulting Turkish leader

Turkey’s justice minister says as many as 1,845 cases have been opened against people accused of insulting President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan since he came to office in 2014.

Erdoğan has been accused of aggressively using a previously seldom-used law that bars insults to the president, as a way to muffle dissent. Those who have gone on trial include celebrities, journalists and even schoolchildren.

Critics say Erdoğan, who has been accused of increasingly authoritarian behaviour, even considers strong criticism as insults.

Responding to questions in parliament on Monday, Bekir Bozdag said his ministry had allowed 1,845 cases on charges of insulting Erdoğan to go ahead.

He defended the prosecutions, saying: “I am unable to read the insults levelled at our president. I start to blush.'
Douglas Murray ran a poetry competition to insult Erdogan.  ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyfTVV4K8mE

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Re: Turkey - military on the streets
« Reply #228 on: July 17, 2016, 09:33:05 am »
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

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Re: Turkey - military on the streets
« Reply #229 on: July 17, 2016, 09:35:07 am »

Lol @ the conspiracy theorist saying it was a set up. No will risk it knowing the history of military coups in The past.
If you the people on your side you do a risk free "pearl harbour" or something like a 911.

Simple facts are the coup was a flop because the people sided with the elected party/erdogan.

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Re: Turkey - military on the streets
« Reply #230 on: July 17, 2016, 09:48:53 am »
What you should know about Turkey's President, Recap Tayyip Erdogan:

1. The Turkish economy between 2002 and 2012 caused a growth of 64% in real GDP and a 43% increase in GDP per capita.

2. Erdoğan inherited a debt of $23.5 billion to the IMF, which was reduced to $0.9 billion in 2012. He decided not to sign a new deal. Turkey's debt to the IMF was thus declared to be completely paid and he announced that the IMF could borrow from Turkey.

3. In 2010, five-year credit default swaps for Turkey's sovereign debt were trading at a record low of 1.17%, below those of nine EU member countries and Russia.

4. In 2002, the Turkish Central Bank had $26.5 billion in reserves. This amount reached $92.2 billion in 2011. During Erdoğan's leadership. Inflation fell from 32% to 9.0% in 2004.

5. Under Erdoğan's government, the number of airports in Turkey increased from 26 to 50.

6. Between 2002 and 2011, another 13500 km of expressway were built.

7. For the first time in Turkish history, high speed railway lines were constructed, and the country's high-speed train service began in 2009. In 8 years, 1076 km of railway were built and 5449 km of railway renewed.

8. Erdogan put greater investments into the healthcare system than any predecessor. As part of the reforms, the "Green Card" program, which provides free health benefits to the poor.

9. Erdoğan increased Education spending from 7.5 billion lira in 2002 to 34 billion lira in 2011, the highest share of the national budget given to one ministry and number of universities in Turkey nearly doubled, from 98 in 2002 to 186 in October 2012.

10. In 1996 1$=222 Lira and in 2016  1$=2.94 Lira, even after the recent turmoil.

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Re: Turkey - military on the streets
« Reply #231 on: July 17, 2016, 09:59:44 am »
What you should know about Turkey's President, Recap Tayyip Erdogan:

Is this your own work or is it just lifted from Reddit?
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

Offline lcjpm01

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Re: Turkey - military on the streets
« Reply #232 on: July 17, 2016, 10:12:19 am »
Is this your own work or is it just lifted from Reddit?
Ripped off from https://www.facebook.com/pafopakistan/?fref=nf

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Re: Turkey - military on the streets
« Reply #233 on: July 17, 2016, 10:27:34 am »
Outlaw_nas cut the crap, 1$ was 1.41 turkish lira when AKP came to government in 2002.
I have no idea why the fuck you would mention 1996 numbers.

If you are criticizing 1996 numbers, country was lead by Refah Party, all Erdogan and key political figures of AKP was actively part of that party until they formed AKP.

And give me a fucking break about Gulen. He is as bad as your erdogan that you worship. You wont mention Gulen and his followers were put in key positions, billion dollars were corropted together for 10 years together until their releationship was ended by conflicts of interest. Your Erdogan was sitting on their lap for 10 plus years.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2016, 10:30:57 am by elsewhere »

Offline elsewhere

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Re: Turkey - military on the streets
« Reply #234 on: July 17, 2016, 10:33:15 am »
Biggest thing AKP did for this country is, many flock of sheep realized how valuable democracy and secularism is after seeing them.

Offline Alan_X

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Re: Turkey - military on the streets
« Reply #235 on: July 17, 2016, 11:51:35 am »
On the first, concerning females, I noticed this too and was very surprised that not one news outlet gave it a mention.

But on the bold, uncanny that one has only seen that mentioned on social media...categorically smells to high heaven.  This "coup" plays into Erdoğan's hands as he's now able to change things towards his own ideology using it as an excuse.  As mentioned re. judges, he's already started.

Just because Erdogan is likely to use it to his benefit, doesn't mean the coup wasn't real. Social media has a fairly shit record when it come to making considered responses to events like this. 
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Re: Turkey - military on the streets
« Reply #236 on: July 17, 2016, 11:56:28 am »
Erdogan is great man and leader . People going out to the streets against the military is a proof of this.
What you should know about Turkey's President, Recap Tayyip Erdogan:

1. The Turkish economy between 2002 and 2012 caused a growth of 64% in real GDP and a 43% increase in GDP per capita.

2. Erdoğan inherited a debt of $23.5 billion to the IMF, which was reduced to $0.9 billion in 2012. He decided not to sign a new deal. Turkey's debt to the IMF was thus declared to be completely paid and he announced that the IMF could borrow from Turkey.

3. In 2010, five-year credit default swaps for Turkey's sovereign debt were trading at a record low of 1.17%, below those of nine EU member countries and Russia.

4. In 2002, the Turkish Central Bank had $26.5 billion in reserves. This amount reached $92.2 billion in 2011. During Erdoğan's leadership. Inflation fell from 32% to 9.0% in 2004.

5. Under Erdoğan's government, the number of airports in Turkey increased from 26 to 50.

6. Between 2002 and 2011, another 13500 km of expressway were built.

7. For the first time in Turkish history, high speed railway lines were constructed, and the country's high-speed train service began in 2009. In 8 years, 1076 km of railway were built and 5449 km of railway renewed.

8. Erdogan put greater investments into the healthcare system than any predecessor. As part of the reforms, the "Green Card" program, which provides free health benefits to the poor.

9. Erdoğan increased Education spending from 7.5 billion lira in 2002 to 34 billion lira in 2011, the highest share of the national budget given to one ministry and number of universities in Turkey nearly doubled, from 98 in 2002 to 186 in October 2012.

10. In 1996 1$=222 Lira and in 2016  1$=2.94 Lira, even after the recent turmoil.
Exactly, as a Turk i can tell you are 100% on spot. Check these out. He came up with a rule "insult to president" law , for which he made it literally impossible for anyone to criticize him. Not to mention, not a single can journalist him on tv or newspapers god knows for how many years now.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/02/turkeys-justice-minister-defends-allowing-1845-insult-cases-to-go-ahead

President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan accused of aggressively using law that bars insulting Turkish leader

Turkey’s justice minister says as many as 1,845 cases have been opened against people accused of insulting President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan since he came to office in 2014.

Erdoğan has been accused of aggressively using a previously seldom-used law that bars insults to the president, as a way to muffle dissent. Those who have gone on trial include celebrities, journalists and even schoolchildren.

Critics say Erdoğan, who has been accused of increasingly authoritarian behaviour, even considers strong criticism as insults.

Responding to questions in parliament on Monday, Bekir Bozdag said his ministry had allowed 1,845 cases on charges of insulting Erdoğan to go ahead.

He defended the prosecutions, saying: “I am unable to read the insults levelled at our president. I start to blush.”


----------------------------------------------------------

2)
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/05/turkey-guilty-insulting-erdogan-160531133729297.html

Model Merve Buyuksarac given 14-month suspended prison sentence for insulting Turkey's president through Instagram post.

A former Miss Turkey has been handed a 14-month suspended prison sentence for insulting President Recep Tayyip Erdogan through a poem she shared on social media.

She is the latest of at least a dozen Turks to face such a sentence.

An Istanbul court found model Merve Buyuksarac, 27, guilty of insulting a public official but suspended the sentence on condition she does not repeat the act for the next five years, local media said on Tuesday.

Buyuksarac, who was crowned Miss Turkey in 2006, was briefly detained last year for sharing the poem on Instagram in 2014.

It was called "the Master's Poem" and referred to a high-level Turkish corruption scandal in 2014.

Before the verdict was announced, Erdogan's lawyer argued in court that Buyuksarac's Instagram post had gone beyond "the limits of criticism" and amounted to "an attack" on the Turkish leader's personal rights, the state-run Anadolu Agency reported.

Insulting the president is a crime punishable by up to four years in jail in Turkey. The law was used infrequently until Erdogan became president in August 2014, since which time prosecutors have opened more than 1,800 cases for insulting him, including against cartoonists, journalists and teenagers.
'A Great Man And A Great Leader', indeed.


Cult of personality, or what. Tempted to deliberately misspell that in reference to those who would leap to his defence with such enthusiasm here.
"under-promise and over-deliver"

Offline Alan_X

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Re: Turkey - military on the streets
« Reply #237 on: July 17, 2016, 12:02:35 pm »
I'm convinced it was staged, what kind of dumbass coup leader decides to take over the country when Erdogan is out the country? it's coup 101 to grab him and other politicians simultaneously. Why attack an empty parliament building on a friday night? how did Erdogan manage to land at one of Istanbuls airports during a coup unchallenged? why did coup soldiers just allow themselves to be arrested with very little resistance despite be heavily armed? all of it coming to an end in 12 hours without much of a fight then afterwards top judges round the country are fired and some arrested, same with miltary generals and personnel. All of this happening neatly over a weekend  while the markets are closed thus limiting damage to the turkish economy.

The only thing the Turkish people have to look forward to is voting for erdogan every 4 years, just like the russians and Putin.

That's exactly the kind of shite that I read on InfoWars and conspiracy sites. What the fuck is 'coup 101'? This is the real world not a teenage geek fantasy.

Don't post conspiracy shite unless you have evidence. The evidence so far is that it was a poorly planned and poorly executed plot by people who over-estimated the support they'd get. Erdogan looks like he'll use it to cement his strength in the country.

Conspiracy 101 - correlation does not prove causation.
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Its all about winning shiny things.

Offline johnsmithlfc

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Re: Turkey - military on the streets
« Reply #238 on: July 17, 2016, 12:18:41 pm »
That's exactly the kind of shite that I read on InfoWars


You read Infowars?

 :o
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Offline SP

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Re: Turkey - military on the streets
« Reply #239 on: July 17, 2016, 12:27:41 pm »

You read Infowars?

 :o

Our ex-posters kept linking to it.