Topic: Saviour or urban myth?

[john_mac]

Ooohhh for me getting pulled apart for criticising the reds too uch, still there is a first time for everything. I do take offence at being accused of saying that Robbie merely stood on the penalty spot, as one of my all-time favourites, I actually accused him of finding space on the penalty spot, a difficult feat indeed.

The fact is that I do want Milan to do well, I always have, I have consistently said ‘come on, prove me wrong’, and only rarely do I criticise Liverpool players, although Paul Stewart may have a word or to say about that. As for supporting the reds in body if not in spirit, well I think that anybody who knows me would answer that better than I can.

It was never intended to be a rant, As Steve said it was my response to calls on here and in the ground as though Milan was better, sorry far better, than I have ever considered him. I think I can see his strengths but I can’t help but feel that I can also see weaknesses, I don’t mind others disagreeing with me, I am not always right, honest!

I do think that Milan wanted to go elsewhere in the Summer, he has admitted so, he has also admitted to being overweight for the English game when he arrived, and becoming impatient because he was not ready. I can recall his performance in Madrid when I first thought that he had showed more than he had in the reserves, and his finely taken goals at the Reebok.

People can like or dislike my opinions but I think few could honestly claim that I am one for barracking or even lacking support for players or teams, fact is that if everybody was on his case, then I would probably be the one to defend him. I don’t think he is as good as some appear to, end of - there are also plenty out there who think that the calls are over-rated.

Jimmy_Case I do post on two sites usually only two sites, although I did used to use a few others. You tend to get a very different range of responses on this and YNWA although there is a number who use both. They are the two where generally I bother with peoples opinions. I didn’t put the thing on the front page although I have told the mods to feel free to reproduce anything I write in whatever manner they feel fit.

Sometimes an International goal record is a red herring but I do tend to agree with Paul that very few have a record as good as Milan’s. I can’t help but feel that he is not as good as some people obviously feel that he is, and that his style of play does not suit the type of expansive football that I feel that Rafa is trying to achieve. I could be wrong, but it is a honest opinion, as I said in the first place, I’m here to be shot at for the opinion. I was here to b shot at, at the start of last season when I said we would win the league, I was wrong then and I may be wrong now.

But there goes! Fuck it I’m off into town for a jar, I won’t be able to spell me own name till I get home from West Brom, so call me all the c*nts you want now!

[RED1975]

Baros wouldn't be 1st choice at most of the biggest clubs, but I think he'd deffo get a game for all of them

[mindscape]

What is this? Having doubts about 'Selfish' Baros while saying he has a lot to live up to 'utterly selfless' Owen and Fowler. Every team needs a player who will just put the damn ball into the damn net. It doesn't matter how and where he gets it in., just score, just score, score as many goals, the remaining 10 player will do the teamwork for you.  I rather have 10 players who do the team work and 1 player who just put the ball into the net then 11 players who do all the pretty passings and possession football but no breakthrough.

Would Shevchenko, Adriano or Ronaldo be half the player they are if the first thing they thinks is ,"I must pass the ball back." If we somehow signed Shev or Ronaldo, and they behaves in an utterly selfish way but put the ball into the back of the net on a regular basis, you will not be doubting. That's star power for you, you will be drooling at their feet and erecting altars for their worship. If not, if you want someone who does 'teamwork' then bring back Erik Meijer and Emile Heskey.

Maybe its the silly way Baros runs. Gerd Muller was the ultimate individualist, where would Germany be without his goals, rather, where will we be without Milan's goals?

Milan wanted to go somewhere this summer, who can blame him? He has been frozed out of the team for so long, if you were in his shoes, you will say the same things as well. You are ambitious, wants to win things and if everything that you do can't displace the one of the worst Liverpool striker in living memory and 'in and out of form' Owen....sit down and be contented (yeah rite).

Milan was born a million miles from Liverpool....geez, we do not require such players to be lifelong Liverpool fans and swore blood and loyalty to the club for life. All I am asking for Milan is for him to play his best when he is picked and do not disappoint us, which he (as of today) still doesn't.

Will he be a legend? Top scored in Euro 2002 at the age of 22/23. On the way to 30 goals this season. What more does he want? Encouragement and more encouragement. Adriano is also a very individualistic player, but still he bangs in the goals for Parma and Inter and still only 22, its sad that while Italy recognizes its foreign stars, England (except when you are a rival team) is always wamer to the likes of Rooney and all the 'Great' English players'.

Players like Baros, Heinze (excellent this season), almost never get recognized and the worst thing is Baros is still not universally accepted by many fans who think they know better. I have heard things like 'Baros will fail, mark my words!' Yeah rite.

[fudge]

For me i personally can't understand how a player with his International record and eye for goal can really be questioned .

He is without doubt one of the hardest working quick thinking strikers in the game and its no suprise to see a team like Barca sniffing around. If we don't appreciate his qualities we'll be watching and regretting it for years, as he scores time and time again against us in the champions league.

[Paul Tomkins]

What is this? Having doubts about 'Selfish' Baros while saying he has a lot to live up to 'utterly selfless' Owen and Fowler. Every team needs a player who will just put the damn ball into the damn net. It doesn't matter how and where he gets it in., just score, just score, score as many goals, the remaining 10 player will do the teamwork for you.  I rather have 10 players who do the team work and 1 player who just put the ball into the net then 11 players who do all the pretty passings and possession football but no breakthrough.

Would Shevchenko, Adriano or Ronaldo be half the player they are if the first thing they thinks is ,"I must pass the ball back." If we somehow signed Shev or Ronaldo, and they behaves in an utterly selfish way but put the ball into the back of the net on a regular basis, you will not be doubting. That's star power for you, you will be drooling at their feet and erecting altars for their worship. If not, if you want someone who does 'teamwork' then bring back Erik Meijer and Emile Heskey.

Interesting points which I agree with - but confusing, as Baros DOES work hard for the team; he works his knackers off. He just doesn't always pass at the end of it.

The best strikers are the greedy ones, as they are the ones who put themselves on the line by daring to miss. He who doesn't dare, doesn't score.

I think people are confusing the 'confused' Baros of last season with the one playing this season. Last year he was coming back from injury, and getting games intermittently. His instruction from GH was to run with the ball - but he perhaps took that too far. Now he's showing more awareness, but also still beautifully single-minded around the box.

Owen and Baros were always unlikely to make the best partnership, as both want to do the same things; neither was a linking player. As the main man, Owen overshadowed Baros (as was Owen's right at the time, as the senior goal-sniffer). Baros (like Owen) would benefit from playing alongside someone like Morientes; the irony is that Owen linked brilliantly with Morientes in the Spanish cup, but El Moro has not had a look-in in the league. Morientes is also a natural goalscorer, but from different kinds of chances; he also links play and holds it up brilliantly.

Don't forget Baros has been a shining light, despite playing on his own up front, or with Cisse, and then Mellor, and then Kewell, and then Luis Garcia, and even Steven Gerrard. A regular experienced partner for Milan, and you might actually find his game improves yet further, and even more goals start going in.

[scottishRED]

let me first say this: i am a fan of milan baros and i agree with the points already made by paul tomkins in relation to milan's ability.

there is only really one point which i want to address. tje point has been made a number of times in this thread and it goes something like this:

" 1) baros is idolised
   2) baros is not as good as fowler + owen + rush
   3) fowler + owen + rush were idolised
   4) so why does baros deserve to be idolised? he doesn't because of point 2);"

this argument is flawed in a number of ways. for a starter, point 1), that baros is idolised, is clearly rubbish. this thread shows that fans in general have mixed feelings about him. just because his name gets chanted at matches does not mean he is "idolised" - it is simply the fans getting behind the redmen. igor biscan gets his name chanted - does anyone think he is "idolised"?

point 2) is correct at the moment, but is IMHO a bit premature. as paul tomkins has pointed out a number of times already - how can we judge someone who is yet to be given a full season as a regular striker and who is so young? also, milan has qualities which none of these players had - not only is he a goalscorer but the way he runs at defenders and pulls them all over the place is brilliant. similar to henry's style of play.

point 3) is clearly correct, but the conclusion which people seem to be drawing from it - i.e. point 4) that baros doesn't deserve it is bullshit. so what if he's not as good as they are? he's the best striker we have AT THE MOMENT, and as such he is going to get all the support I (and most other fans) can give.

[cornelius]

I agree in the main with pretty much everything John Mac has written there.

I think it certainly highlights something which has been bothering me for a while and that is the level of fawning and hero worshipping that some people are so quick to bestow on these forums and others. Likewise these fickle types, who are great in number, are unbelievably quick to write things off be it a player or our chances of a top four finish etc. I guess it's the nature of today's average football fan.

The Baros worship doesn't surprise me, in recent months I've seen red tinted views on how Salif Diao, Igor Biscan and Bruno Cheyrou will soon be battling it out for World player of the Year and how El Hadji Diouf will go on a road to Damascus style conversion if we just 'showed some patience and got behind them'.

I'm sure we've made a fantastic appointment in Rafa Benitez but some people seem to be setting themselves up for a fall by placing a Shankly-like status on him just a few short, albeit positive, months in charge. I'd rather suck it and see. What happened with the last manager certainly left my heart a bit battered and bruised.

For what it's worth I like Baros a lot but there are moments when he frustrates the hell out of me, I still have a few reservations which I think John illustrates perfectly and I still need 'winning over' before I reach for a pedastal for Milan. I swear there's others out there who wouldn't hesitate to put him in an all time XI.

[karrmadamaii]

I'm not on the Milan side, questioning his style of play may be warranted given the number of times many of us were left frustrated, and wondering if his sudden cult status deserves itself is reasonable considering he is only getting his first full season at the club after 3 years here, but mentioning in such a deragatory manner makes it sound as if his goals weren't good enough for us.

Without him, we would've dropped a total of 8 points in the league, losing to Blackburn & Crystal Palace whilst drawing with Man City, with a goal diff of +3, and a league position of 13th, ahead of Birmingham on goal difference, below Newcastle by 1 point. Hardly a pleasing sight.

I don't know how many assists he has had, it won't be much, but I figure without his skewed shot against Fulham, we'd have dropped another 2 points from that game, which would put us further down the table.

Maybe 6 months in the first team doesn't warrant him such "cult" status, I agree on that, but questioning that "cult" status with a comparison to what our previous goal-scoring greats have achieved, his style compared to those greats and him stating his dream to play for another team, as much as it is valid, is a little unreasonable. You do not have to be a Scouse to be granted such status do you? Even if this reasoning is accepted, dismissing his records and what he has achieved for us in the past 6 months without considering the impact and effect those goals and runs had on the team, the coaching staff and the coach, not to mention on the progress of the curent squad is plain ungrateful.

If Meijer were to become a supersub, scoring a hatful in some significant games, and then getting a cult status amongst the fans before leaving back for Germany, would the same judgement or opinion be made of him?

I agree with John in the context of totally understading his arguments, but like John, I have my own opinions as well. We don't have to take such a cynical view on things like how vladallover put his opinion across. Baros is providing Rafa half of the solution to the problem he's trying to solve right now, which is getting goals. Is that not enough for some of you?

I have no problems/issues with the opinions, its just the way some of them were presented really painted a rather negative picture of the posters and the debate as a whole.

In finality, I really really hope that Milan and Rafa proves you (all of those who has doubted and is doubting Milan now) wrong too.

[Paul Tomkins]

He doesn't have to be put on a pedastal - but that doesn't mean he needs knocking down either. If people worship him too much, that's their problem with a lack of perspective. Similarly, those who can't see his gifts are sadly missing something I believe is pretty special (not God-like, I'll add).

I think people are just enjoying his football this season; in the absence of Owen, and with Cisse's injury, and with Mellor only just emerging in terms of the first team, Milan is our one recognized goalscorer. People are rightly saluting and applauding him, and his name gets chanted by the Kop as he's just one of those players people warm to. He has an infectious style where he runs hard, and tries his best. People like him a lot, but I've not seen much evidence of people getting carried away. At this moment in time I wouldn't swap him for Michael Owen, but that doesn't mean I think he's achieved for us all that Owen did. When a Liverpool player is doing well, I like to look forward, not back.

I was at the Man City game and Milan's performance blew me away. Then the next game he infuriated me. I came to realize that this is just a fact of football life; but he's never absent from the heart of the play, never anonymous. Since then he's found more consistency. But he's a player who tries stuff that doesn't always come off.

Players like Owen could do nothing all game and then notch a goal; or maybe do nothing all game and not notch one; or have a blinder and score a hat-trick. Milan isn't like that - he'll infuriate, but he's not one of those strikers who just pops up with goals out of nothing. He is always on the move, always looking for the ball, always positive. People need to realize how crucial that is. All he needs now is a 'steady' strike partner he can play off of.

[hooded claw]

Just a quick thought- I wonder whether all the Henry hype affects our views at all; in the sense that Henry has raised the bar of what we want to see in a striker. His pace, finishing, vision, control are all exemplary, so all others are judged by that standard- typically, of course, to their detriment. But Henry is a one-off (at the moment, anyway), so instead of recognising that he belongs almost in a category of his own, all who fail to meet his criteria are overlooked?

[Holiara]

Just a quick thought- I wonder whether all the Henry hype affects our views at all; in the sense that Henry has raised the bar of what we want to see in a striker. His pace, finishing, vision, control are all exemplary, so all others are judged by that standard- typically, of course, to their detriment. But Henry is a one-off (at the moment, anyway), so instead of recognising that he belongs almost in a category of his own, all who fail to meet his criteria are overlooked?

I hadn't seen it from this angle, but I think you're right. Henry is in a different class and that's what I meant when I said that there are better strikers out there at the moment. Still, even Henry's game could improve in some parts as he tends to "disappear" a little when the defenders get tough, something that wouldn't happen to Milan. Nobody is perfect, not even Henry.

[reds88]

What does it matter if Milan feels that sometime in the future he wants to move on when it's obvious that he's busting his gut his time he plays?  You can't ask for more.   

He's doing his job by scoring goals.  He's not a complete player yet so give him time.  Give him a break.

[jimmy_case]

The fact is that I do want Milan to do well, I always have, I have consistently said ‘come on, prove me wrong’, ...

Jimmy_Case I do post on two sites usually only two sites, although I did used to use a few others. You tend to get a very different range of responses on this and YNWA although there is a number who use both. They are the two where generally I bother with peoples opinions. I didn’t put the thing on the front page although I have told the mods to feel free to reproduce anything I write in whatever manner they feel fit.

Sometimes an International goal record is a red herring but I do tend to agree with Paul that very few have a record as good as Milan’s. I can’t help but feel that he is not as good as some people obviously feel that he is, and that his style of play does not suit the type of expansive football that I feel that Rafa is trying to achieve. I could be wrong, but it is a honest opinion, as I said in the first place, I’m here to be shot at for the opinion....

Hey John, first off - as I only later saw in Rushian's post, I admit I did misunderstand why your post was on the front page: as I said initially, I came to the site via a "News" feeder site so it read more as an article than an opinion.

I still don't, though, understand why you post an opinion with nothing to substantiate it? Unfounded opinions with nothing to base them on are pointless and, when as negative as yours, just destructive (especially given that you seem to be a respected poster here).

As has been mentioned elsewhere, Baros has not yet finished one full season as a first team player for us yet you have already formed a negative opinion of him. I see it above in the bit of your post I quoted, "I hope he proves me wrong". Why have you already decided he is no good before he has even finished a full season? Is that not a clear sign of prejudice against the player? As an analogy, you apparently have judged him guilty and now he must prove his innocence - hardly a fair state of affairs?

Personally, I don't want Baros to prove me wrong at all as I have high expectations for the player based on his performances at the Euros and his start to this season. I consider it a great tonic to see a player with such high skill and talent, plus loads of potential, turn out for the reds each week and I hope I can still sing his praises as a Liverpool player in years to come.

[Consigliere]

The title of the article - "Saviour or urban myth?" - immediately hurts the credibilty of the opinion expressed.

It's not an accurate or legtimate headline. It's a tabloidesque headline designed to provoke.

It's not difficult to pick the article to pieces, line by line, but I for one, am not prepared to engage in reasoned debate with someone who's taking the stance of agent provocateur. Rushian and PT, I could yadda all day with, but John Mac on this occasion, isn't getting anything more than a token amount of my breath. If the point of the article is to stir up some reaction, then John's succeeded. But it's at the expense of reputation. All the more disappointing that its from a respected website.

Perhaps its better to have these sort of articles in a 'Mark Lawrenson' type section - at least then you know what to expect. The other articles can then go in the Alan Hansen (before he started believing his own hype)  / Guillem Balague / Sid Lowe type section.

[Rushian]

Consigliere - you're so right about Alan Hansen

But as a site we reserve the right to publish anything well writteneven if we disagree with it (and me and john_mac couldn't be further apart on this, even if on other subjects we could be sleeping together). What you can guarantee with RAWK is that anyone who gets something on the front page loves Liverpool with a passion unseen in 99% of Liverpool fans.

And when it comes to john_mac I genuflect as he's been to more games, more grounds, more countries and more continents than virtually any other Red fan alive on Earth in support of this great club and players.

I know that for every Baros goal he is bouncing up and down in the Upper Anny front row or at some obscure away ground. I know he'd like nothing more than Milan becoming the next Pele. But ..... and it's an honest but, he has posted his view, And I, as editor and someone who disagrees with him fundamentally on this one issue, am happy to publish it as it sits comfortably with our front page policy.

[What else but RED]

I think the people on here know EXACTLY how I feel about Baro's so I'll leave it at that.

All's I'll add is if me young 10 year old lad want's Baro's on his new LFC shirt, I know for fact I won't be going to down JJB to get his name put on it.

Think we should resign Richard Money again... MONEY on the back just about sum's it up for me.

I want my lad to wear the shirt with pride [As he does, been in loads of playground scraps lately] and I want him to have a name on the back which means something to HIM.

I can only think of two for him Carragher and Gerrard, how can he worship people who don't know what playing for LFC really means?

Just curious, how do you know that Carragher and Gerrard know what playing for LFC really mean? Does it mean as long as they are local lads means whatever effort they put into a game will count for more than the rest of the players? i see Baros running his socks off, less effort??? 

I believe that Barce link did some harm to Baros, but what the heck, he won the golden boot in Euro 2004 and yet he was still behind Heskey in the pecking order at Anfield. Put yourself in his shoes, would you say you would like to move to Barce at that point in time? He was frustrated and he said what he felt. 

Put this into the same perspective as Gerrard's "prove me that 'pool is capable of winning major trophies or i'm gone"  ..........what's the difference in mentality of both players at that point in time 

[Obi Wan Gomi]

There hasn't been a game this season where I've had to say, "Baros didn't play well today."

Even more telling is that presently we are a better team when Baros is playing. We are a better team - we win more matches, and we play better football when he is on the pitch. He works his socks off for us and he wins us games. He has made some misguided comments before but right now he is a Liverpool player, a GOOD Liverpool player, and one who never stops running for the team. For that, we should give him all the support we can.

So he might'nt be as good as Rush or Owen, but very few are. The worst thing would be for another top striker to leave in part because he felt underappreciated by the 'most knowledgeable' fans in football.

[zigackly]

Forget his international record. That's just a strawman argument, in the context of his playing for Liverpool. Look at his goal-scoring record for us this season, and tell me it's not as good as anyone we've had at the club in the last five years.

[cornelius]

When a Liverpool player is doing well, I like to look forward, not back.
 

Is precisely the right attitude to take (although I admit that I myself sometimes don't follow this rule) but then I see comments like this...

There hasn't been a game this season where I've had to say, "Baros didn't play well today."

which illustrates exactly what I was trying to say about having a red-tinted view of the world. Portsmouth at home springs immediately to mind.

I want to make it clear before anyone jumps in - I'm not Baros bashing and I'm as glad as anyone that he is doing well for us but like John Mac I have a few niggling doubts about certain things. I'm not neccesarily reffering to his playing capabilities but am I the only person here who thinks that Milan seemed childishly pleased when Cisse got injured? That might seem controversial to some but he's clearly knuckled down to the task since and has shown less signs of stroppy behaviour. I just wonder how he'll handle it if we really do bring in both Anelka and Morientes or even just one of the two. There's no doubt in my mind that he likes to be the main man, ironically a criticism levelled at Owen.

[jimmy_case]

... but am I the only person here who thinks that Milan seemed childishly pleased when Cisse got injured?

Wow! There's a John Mac type of prejudice ... and then there's this whole other level you can descend to... What a horrible comment to make. Amazing. I think you can be pretty sure you are the only one, by the way.

[Obi Wan Gomi]

which illustrates exactly what I was trying to say about having a red-tinted view of the world. Portsmouth at home springs immediately to mind.

i love my red-tinted view then - makes things more rosy 

But alright, I concede - he wasnt at his best v Pompey. However this

I'm not neccesarily reffering to his playing capabilities but am I the only person here who thinks that Milan seemed childishly pleased when Cisse got injured?

is going slightly over-the-top. I dont think he was pleased his teammate broke his leg. He might have thought to himself, well this is my chance to be the main man and to prove myself, and he might have relished that opportunity but would you have it any other way? That has to be the way to react. Like I said his attitude might have been questionable early on but he is making the right noises (and showing the right kind of effort) now so get off his back a bit.

[Paul Tomkins]

Milan and Cisse were becoming good friends, so I don't buy that. They were also (after a stint of alternating) being used as a partnership, and Milan has said he likes a striker partner.

I do think that all footballers are secretly pleased when a rival for their place gets injured; I am just not sure they were still rivals, as Cisse was the one being shunted out to the right if Rafa changed formations; and while players hope their rivals for a spot get injured, they don't wish that on their own teammates.

I also think EVERY striker likes being the main man. Look at Fowler when Owen burst onto the scene; look at Owen and Rooney for England, and so on. Strikers take a lot of confidence from being the 'hero', the players others look to. When you get strikers who are happy to just play it simple - those who have no ego - you end up with an Emile Heskey. Desire to be the best, and score the most goals, is what makes goalscorers tick. I've heard the same criticisms of arrogance and 'ego' aimed at Thierry Henry.

[karrmadamaii]

I want to make it clear before anyone jumps in - I'm not Baros bashing and I'm as glad as anyone that he is doing well for us but like John Mac I have a few niggling doubts about certain things. I'm not neccesarily reffering to his playing capabilities but am I the only person here who thinks that Milan seemed childishly pleased when Cisse got injured?

How is speculating, assuming and pre-judging the CHARACTER of player on the basis of "a few niggling doubts" NOT Baros-bashing??!!!

What are your niggling doubts, my friend? Let's see them and find out what everyone thinks about it.

If you have no complaints about Baros's playing capabilities, then where does your doubts come from? Is it because Baros has said that he had dreamed of playing for Barca? If that's so, why would we want to buy Moro for? He wants to come here for first-team footie, and for Rafa, not for Liverpool. How about Gerrard then? He said he can't wait that long.

C'mon vlad, come up with sth better than that. With what you've said ppl won't be having issues with your opinions anymore, they might have problems with you instead.

[cornelius]

Well I did say it was controversial and its only an opinion. I'm not saying he was pleased at the nature of the injury but pleased that a rival for his team place was injured.

How is speculating, assuming and pre-judging the CHARACTER of player on the basis of "a few niggling doubts" NOT Baros-bashing??!!!

What are your niggling doubts, my friend? Let's see them and find out what everyone thinks about it.

OK I concede these points but I guess we'll see just what his attitude is like if we do sign Anelka, Morientes or Both.

I've heard the same criticisms of arrogance and 'ego' aimed at Thierry Henry.

Very true but I don't think he'd have his nose put out of joint like Baros's was.

With what you've said ppl won't be having issues with your opinions anymore, they might have problems with you instead.

Is this a threat?

[karrmadamaii]

Is this a threat?

Far from it, instead I'm just trying to put across my opinion, which is, while ppl might not have anything much against your opinion (as you are entitled to it), they might have sth against how you formed your opinion, which might just make it a little more personal than it should be. MIGHT.

It's just my opinion, and given your own admission that your own opinion is controversial, you should know how controversy attracts animosity, in whatever forms, be it mild or intense, words or actions.

 

[Paul Tomkins]

Okay, leave it at that on the threats/animosity front!

[karrmadamaii]

Don't worry Paul, no harm intended. 

[Vinay]

FFS! For the first time in 10 years it looks like we have got someone  who can score 20+ goals in the Premiership.
Give the kid a break!!!

[cornelius]

FFS! For the first time in 10 years it looks like we have got someone  who can score 20+ goals in the Premiership.
Give the kid a break!!!

OK maybe it's my fault but I just cannot relate to today's footballers. I don't have any heroes anymore and I'll be honest I love football, I love liverpool but I think that nearly all of today's footballers are a set of c**ts. The issue in the main that I was trying to air my views on was that I get pissed off with the amount of undue hero worship that goes on towards what are in the main a set of overpaid brats with bad attitudes. Maybe at 27 I've reached that pivotal point in my life where my child-like obsessions aren't what they were.

I suppose whatever my views on Baros as a player or a man, he is no different from anyone else in today's game. So I apologise to anyone who took offence to my earlier comments but I do genuinely believe what I wrote. I have my doubts about Baros' attitude and I don't think he is as good as many suggest. That is not to say I don't like him or think that he might become that player.

I was 10 when John Barnes signed for Liverpool and so for obvious reasons he was my absolute idol during my teenage years. Sadly I don't think I'll ever feel the same way about another player.

[Rashid]

My one criticism of Baros is that his awareness lets him down - he is not the most intelligent of players but his direct running and eye for goal more than makes up for it.

But look at this objectively, Owen couldn't score as many goals from outside the box like Milan has, and Robbie certainly couldn't dribble like Milan can. Milan is also stronger than both.

There are not many 'complete' strikers around these days - neither Ronaldo or Henry can header a ball and Shevchecnko having seen him live does not possess the skill of these two. Every striker will have his faults.

Hypothetically, when Owen left us this summer and if we were looking for a striker I hazard a guess we would have loved the Euro 2004 top scorer but would never have got him as Barcelona and Real Madrid wanted him - he stayed with us  and those two clubs went for Owen and Eto' instead.

I am just happy that we have him, he is scoring goals and was superb against Newcastle.

John has been there, seen and and done it as far as watching this club and its famous strikers... but all these strikers had the best in the business behind them (barring Robbie who is excellent and Owen who had the whole team built around him) - maybe Baros will be even better if we get better playars around him and he also manages to correct his mistakes. Time will tell.

[realtarragona]

I've read all the replies and I just do not see the problem. It's a good article. Towards the end of the Houllier era our fans were overly negative about everything to do with the club. Now it seems we have just gone from one extreme to the other. Benitez is a supposed legend already and heaven forbid anyone should have anything 'negative' to say about him or any of the players. I agree with parts of the article and as I said earlier, I've always found Baros to be over-hyped but recently I'm starting to think maybe he is the real deal. Either way though, everyone's entitled to their opinion and just because he isn't rambling on about how great everything or someone is, doesn't make it a poor article and it's certainly nothing to get worked up about.

[Gnurglan]

He is always on the move, always looking for the ball, always positive. People need to realize how crucial that is. All he needs now is a 'steady' strike partner he can play off of.

Exactly.

[walshys_mullet]

Sorry, read the main article and the first two and a half pages and i was genuinely shocked, and i understand people have their opinions and thats fine, but i couldnt fathom why so many people express some negativity towards a plyer who gives 100% every game.

Its funny though, when people expressed concern over a rapidly increasing inconsistent Heskey, a lot of people defended him to the hilt for his workrate, yet we have here a player who offers this workrate, running and goalscoring almost week in week out. Yeah he needs to improve his game, but so does Alonso, so does Gerrard and so does Carra. Theres never a complete player is there? For all Rushies pace and finishing you hardly saw him score from distance did you, and he was hardly a great pen taker was he? But then thats being pedantic and taking away from what he was.

Also Ronny Rosenthal...what was wrong with him? He did a job for us, sub or not, he helped us to our last championship, scored crucial goals from the bench, frightened the opposition.

I just dont see the point in these comparisons.

[hide5seek]

To put it simply I think Baros will prove his doubters wrong.

[Hinesy]

having read all the posts, I think the 2 camps are very well represented.

I tend to fall in with john on this one, purely because I still see a selfish player adapting and learning to play in a team.

i know he's not had a lot of time with the others,
i know he's young
i know he's learning.


however for now, I don't see the indefinable spark of genius, that piece of magic that makes him a 'natural' finisher a la Fowler.

But I do see a high work rate, a willingness to fight and good strength. I think he reminds me of Alan Smith without the knobhead attitude. There is passion but with too much head down'ness', there is skill, but needs to be refined. There are goals but others should have been there,
the only thing I want to see is an intelligent relationship built with a consistent partner and the reason i won't condemn him is that Baros hasn't had that chance yet.

i hope he proves me wrong. And i hate the Meeeelllllaaaann chant.

[MichaelA]

the only thing I want to see is an intelligent relationship built with a consistent partner

Milan and Cisse sitting in a tree... 

[aaronjgomez]

Baros has been our best striker this season. He has been playing generally well. And he was the top scorer in the euro 04. I'll concede that he is selfish at times but look at his assist for mellor against newcastle.  he's got a good strike rate and wins matches for us. Lets appreciate him before another quality striker leaves us. MILAN!!

[The Jackal]

kind of agree with everyone on this thread - weird or what (I'm not schizo or anything - honest..). Read John's article to begin with and found myself thinking - 'spot on mate', but as I read some of the responses, I started seeing things from the other side as well.

 I don't agree with some of the posters that winning the golden boot at Euro2004 is any kind of indicator of quality (that whole tournament didn't exactly go according to the script did it? - Greece winning?!!??), but I do agree that Milan the mystery man has got 'something' God only knows what it is, but it's there...

Maybe Rafa's the man to turn that 'something' into 'something special' - who knows. All I can say at this stage is that the jury's out, and it's too early to judge, but it's gonna be interesting finding out which way it's gonna go..

(He's just a mystery inside a puzzle inside an enigma...  )

[enoder]

After Sundays Derby performance I had to drag this up for another read. We are now further through the season and personally I feel better able to comment - I have to agree I do not think that Milan has the required quality or temperament to be a success at anfield. He has had his chance this year and in comparison to the scraps that Michael Owen had to live of for the past couple of seasons his had the full four courses.

I do not think thi is a knee jerk reaction to the two clear cut chances that he had on Sunday - Should be bread and butter, could you see Henry or Owen missing both of those ? Maybe one, certainly not both. Milan Baros may run hot and cold but more often that not his finishing leaves a lot to be desired - His attitude seems to reek of the 'ME' factor. I do not think his team mates know what he is going to do next - Rafa can't seem to get him to do what he wants either.

I think this summer will be Milans last at Anfield.

[Zappa]

I think its probably his last too, but not because he's a bad player- because Rafa will look for the traditional two-man strike partnership, and I don't think Milan is the right type. He's 100% genuine and puts a lot of effort in but is too ball greedy. If he kept his head up more it might be different.