Topic: Saviour or urban myth?

[Mottman]

I think the people on here know EXACTLY how I feel about Baro's so I'll leave it at that.

All's I'll add is if me young 10 year old lad want's Baro's on his new LFC shirt, I know for fact I won't be going to down JJB to get his name put on it.

Think we should resign Richard Money again... MONEY on the back just about sum's it up for me.

I want my lad to wear the shirt with pride [As he does, been in loads of playground scraps lately] and I want him to have a name on the back which means something to HIM.

I can only think of two for him Carragher and Gerrard, how can he worship people who don't know what playing for LFC really means?

[koolkamal]

I think the people on here know EXACTLY how I feel about Baro's so I'll leave it at that.

All's I'll add is if me young 10 year old lad want's Baro's on his new LFC shirt, I know for fact I won't be going to down JJB to get his name put on it.

Think we should resign Richard Money again... MONEY on the back just about sum's it up for me.

I want my lad to wear the shirt with pride [As he does, been in loads of playground scraps lately] and I want him to have a name on the back which means something to HIM.

I can only think of two for him Carragher and Gerrard, how can he worship people who don't know what playing for LFC really means?

Maybe your kid can put daddy on the back of his shirt if love my kid to do that (if i had one)

[realtarragona]

I've never been a huge fan and I certainly wasn't worrying about losing him in the summer when Barcelona were interested in him. I'm beginning to change my mind on him now though. He's a talented player there's no doubt about that but I've always found him equally frustrating. There's definite signs though that he's improving his all round game. If Benitez can teach him to become more of a team player, basically keeping his head up and learning how to bring others into the game, then he'll be a top class striker. While six months ago I couldn't see it happening, now I'm starting to think it could. Only thing is, as already touched upon, I'm not so sure he sees his long term future at the club. Considering his current contract situation, I guess we'll find out soon enough though.

[woof]

Baros is having a good run but it's still too early to say that he'll be a legend like Rush or Aldridge. He may be. One thing I do appreciate about Milan is the hunger in him for scoring goals. Everytime he drops his head, you know he'll stop at nothing to score a goal. That is what we require at the moment. That may be the cutting edge we are missing.

John, I disagree with your notion of Rafa building a team around somebody. In today's game, you are as good as your last game. Players come and go and it's quite impossible to build a team around certain player. As Ferguson and Wenger had shown in their premiership glories, you definitely need to build a team around a core group of players. Successful teams are ones with a reliable defence and a good engine in the midfield to control play and provide feeders to the strikers. A striker's job is to put the ball away into the opposition's net. If Baros is doing that at the moment, why can't he be entrusted to that task? I mean, why change things when it is currently working? All Baros needs now is a striking partner and a backup in case he's out injured.

As for improvements in January, I hope something can be done with our defence - I see that Hyppia is now the weakest link with his lack of pace. The way we are playing now, it is better to get a pacy centreback. And I think Pongolle can be deployed on the right.

[red-cisse]

the quality of articles on rawk is getting more shite

[WalkOn]

yakyakyakyakyakyakyakyakyakyakyakyak Legend??!! yakyakyakyakyakyakyakyakyakyak Owen yakyakyakyakyakyak Fowler yakyakyakyakyakyak Rush  yakyakyakyakyakyak

As long as he keeps bangin in the goals, doesn't matter how he score them , even if he  scored them with his groin!

11 goals , with the CL, League Cup and FA Cups and half a season still to come?

that's more than good enough for now.

Think less. Sit back .Relax . Enjoy . Support!

[karrmadamaii]

John, my comment to you is - I hope Milan and Rafa proves you wrong too.

 

Merry Christmas everyone. 

[Red Hell]

Good post... hopefully we'll see a better all round team player by the end of the season (injury free of course)...

[Paul Tomkins]

Paul, come on. Baros is an out and out striker, Smicer is not. (And I did say virtually a goal every other game. Is it a pre requisite to be pedantic now?) His goal tally is therefore as good as Baros considering the position he plays. Baros is a good striker. I'm not and never have disputed that. But as for being in the same class as Owen or even World Class, that's not a description I'd subscribe to.

If Baros does it season in, season out for 5 or 6 seasons, then I'll tend to agree with you and others about his status.

I'm not being pedantic, but your distinction between the two positions the two play is fair enough.

However, as an out-and-out striker, Baros has an excellent record for the Czechs, and in his first "true" season for us as main man he has one for LFC this season. You will find decent strikers (such as Marcus Allback) with very good goalscoring records for their country, at roughly one-in-two; and lots of 'great' strikers like Henry, Trezuguet, Kluivert, Owen and Raul have roughly one-in-two ratios.

But Baros' is up there with Ronaldo's at two-in-three, and that's without penalties too. In world football (ignoring countries who only ever play whipping boys) I can't think of another striker with a two-in-three ratio after 30+ games. That's my point: not that his international record is good - but that it is staggering. And that's no fluke, especially as he started for the Czechs as a very raw young lad. International football may be different, but it doesn't mean you can ignore stats like Milan's.

Perhaps people worshipping Baros is going too far at this stage. But you say he needs to do it for five or six seasons? - well, our judgements are based on what we've seen in the last six months, as that's all we've got to go on; before then he'd never had a fair crack of the whip. Without a crystal ball, what else can we do? He hasn't had five or six seasons as first choice, has he?

If he doesn't yet deserve to be compared to Owen, he certainly doesn't deserve comparison with Ronny Rosenthal. And anyway, why does he have to be compared with Rush, Fowler and Owen at this stage? What more can Baros do now he's got a place in the side than go out and score goals? And, unlike Rush and Aldridge, he's not playing in a side dominating each and every match...

[Shamir Patel]

Milan is awesome, his running with the ball and direct approach reminds me of the young Owen. I think the club should fight just as hard to keep him as they should Steven Gerrard, Milan is world class, along with Xavi and SG and we need to keep these type of players. Granted he can be a little selfish but that is trait many of the best strikers have. His assist for Mellor against Newcastle shows he's improving in this department as well they guy is a phenomon IMO, true like SG he has been voicing his desire to leave, but we should do all we can to keep him.

[Fitzy.]

I agree with the potential attitude problem, however, I honestly believe he has such a desire to succeed that he will always be an asset to any team. We're lucky to have him and must be grateful to Houllier for his astute signing. I believe that Rafa knows his short-comings (selfishness) , this was displayed after the Palace hat-trick when 10 minutes after the final wistle Raf took Milan to the centre circle, probebly to explain how he can improve his running and distibution. I believe that Rafa can make any player better! 

[john_mac]

John, I disagree with your notion of Rafa building a team around somebody. In today's game, you are as good as your last game.

I never said that he would or that he should. I asserted that to get the best out of Baros you have to play to his strengths, and that may involve shaping a team around his strengths.

[Paul Tomkins]

I never said that he would or that he should. I asserted that to get the best out of Baros you have to play to his strengths, and that may involve shaping a team around his strengths.

But when do you ever want to play to a player's weaknesses? So long as it doesn't become our only tactic (as it did with Owen), we'll be okay; I don't see Rafa relying on one player, when there's also Gerrard, Alonso, Luis Garcia, Kewell, Mellor, Flo, Cisse (next season) and Morientes possibly this season.

Baros is unique, an individual - but that doesn't mean he can't fit into a team; he does for the Czechs, and now he's doing that in this more expansive LFC side. He can be blinkered, but he does create chances for others, both directly, and indirectly (with his running at defenders causing panic). He can also create chances for himself. A class act. Full stop.

[Life]

....When he first came onto the scene, I have to admit that I couldn't decide what sort of a player he was. I just wonder whether your doubts are because of the difficulty in pigeonholing him?

An interesting point this.
Milan reminds me of the lad at school who was dead good at playtime.  He'd go round loads of players and he was the one who you always passed to - but never passed back to you.  You thought he was the best player in the world, but it turned out that he got a trial at a few pro clubs and got turned down at them all.  Then he went on to play for the "town" team and eventually was getting lumps kicked out of them at pub football.

Do you see my point - cos it's not a flippant one.  You very, very rarely see players like Milan because I don't think they often make it at the top.  The selfish, head down approach isn't usually one that will work in professional football.  The team suffer at the expense of the individual.  You can have your solid strikers that know nothing else but hold off defenders and slam the ball in the net a la Toshack.  You can have finishers who get on the end of things like Rush.  Skillful players who bring other players into the game and score a few themselves like Henry.  But a head down "I'm going to try to take you all on and then score" players like Baros are few and far between.  Do you know who he reminds me of?  Darren Huckerby.  On his day, you marvel at how he's never made it at a top club - but when he's not on his day you realise.  As a sub he's incredibly effective, charging at opposition players and causing mayhem.  From the start, and against a decent defender, he gets nothing because he's shown the outside and they know he can't/won't pass to anyone anyway.

Anyway, I like the player, I like his work-rate and his goals ratio isn't to be sniffed at.  I'm glad we've got a player like him as our No.2 ( ) - I just share some of the concerns others have pointed out above - and don't think he cares in the slightest about Liverpool FC.  I don't think we need only players who spent their whole life with Liverpool posters on the wall - but I'm uncomfortable that we worship a player whose openly stated he dreams of wearing a Barca shirt.

[smicer07]

Never really liked him as a person or a footballer (greedy) but to be fair he has been excellent this season and we missed him when he was out injured.

[sweeney]

*Best Mr T accent*  CRAZY FOOL !

[Huyton_Red]

Baros has pace, he's good in the air, he runs at defenders with the ball which they hate and whenever he's played for LFC he's scored goals. However there is room for improvement and he needs to improve his 1st touch, look up when he's on the ball
and stop overrunning the ball.

I have never believed that he's a better player for Czech Republic than he is for us and firmly believe he can become one of the world's top strikers given the oppurtunity.

A) He is quick, string, beats players, has a brilliant first touch, works harder than any player I have ever seen and can finish inside and outside the box. And he is working on his awareness as you saw on Sunday, oh and he is only 23

B) He played better for the czechs than he did for us because he has the condifence of his manager and as such had a regular run of games, when he was with the czechs he didnt have to sit on the bench every week and watch heskey play instead of him, now he is playing regulary for us he is starting to play for us like he does for the Czechs

Not only does he have a better all round game than Owen but he will also scored 20 league goals this season something Owen couldht do

And I agree, he will become one of the worlds top strikers in a couple of years

The original article, was well written as they usually are considering the author however the content was absolute rubbish

[Consigliere]

Just noticed this article on the RAWK main page.

Always loved RAWK, because the views are so much more 'sensible' and considered than other websites, but I have to say that I found it very disappointing that such a unfairly critical and in places factually inaccurate article is given such a prominent place.

Love PT's articles, but have just lost a boatload of respect for RAWK.

[TSC]

Got fed up reading this thread - didn't think there were so many who don't rate Baros long term (still a minority thankfully).  I never rated him either at the start, but he's come a long way since then.

Didn't like playing second fiddle to Owen some have commented?  Wrong.  It was probably sitting on the bench watching the big oaf Heskey fluff chances left, right and centre that peeved him.

The lad's scored at the highest level regularly, won golden boot at Euro 04, etc, etc.  Of course he's no Rush or Fowler - who is?  Those types of players come around once in a generation (if that) - we got lucky with the fact that the two of them came around in almost the same generation.

Anyway, we don't have many options at the moment.  He's carrying us up front at the mo.  I'd hate to see reactions if he starts having a bad run.  Give him a chance ffs.

[DonkeyWan]

I have to say I'm really surprised with some responses so far. I'm happy to wait and see what happens this season, but from what I've seen we have a 23-year old who is only this season getting a good run of games to prove himself, has been generally excellent so far this season making a key difference in some games and has a world-class scoring record with a European country including top-scorerin a major international tournament, in the only other area (internationals) that he can prove himself in. He's got a good shot, guile with his finishing, enough pace, he's strong, very hard working, can beat his man, is a decent header of the ball...sure he's got some weaknesses, such as his head-down play, but these are areas he can work on - he's only 23! And he's shown he's working and improving.

I'm sorry, I just don't get it. I'm with Paul Tomkins here. I'm not calling him a world-beater just yet, but I'm amazed that people can be doubting his excellent qualities at this stage. I for one am perfectly happy for us to build around him as a focal point for our attack. If it doesn't turn out well, then so be it, but on the evidence so far, he absolutely deserves to be where he is - as our number one striker.

Agree one hundred percent. Milan bust his balls every week for the club, one of the hardest working strikers I have ever seen. His goals to games ratio is excellent and he could easily make a run for top goal scorer this season. Instead of appreciating the player, people are picking at parts of his game that are improving week by week. Against Newcastle he was involved in winning the corner, (rightly) lambasted Mellor for having a pot at goals outside the box, when he was clean through, THEN set up Mellor for the second before excellent work for the third. A superb performance and back to his form pre-injury. He has performed superbly this season for us and is getting better an dbetter. And instead of people saying "class, he's definitely gonna show good this year, and prove himself an excellent and cheap buy" people are saying "he's not Owen, is he? Fowler was better. I don't like him that much myself". Madness. Owen was a player I found frustrating, as he disappeared for long spells and popped up for two minutes to score a goal and then went back into his shell again. He was still an excellent striker, simply because he scored at all levels at all times. Baros too, looks an excellent striker, as he also scores at all levels at all times (something I believe is incredibily important in a striker), but also adds to this an incredible workrate and a willingness to stick at it to the end....I rate him, I rate him very highly, but until he's statistically up there, people won't give him credit...

[Paul Tomkins]

Three points.

First: Rushie was shite in Italy - just 7 league goals in his season thdere. Therefore, he's shite - I mean, how can he be called world-class? (of course, I am joking -  but also pointing out that settling into a new country can be hard, especially when you're not given ample opportunities to shine).

Second: why does it have to be Baros is great and Owen was lazy, or Owen was great and Baros is selfish? Before it was Owen vs Fowler, now suddenly people are making it Owen vs Baros.

Third: as for being selfish/greedy, just watch the guy - Mellor shot weakly when he should have laid Milan in, and yet when the position was reversed Milan made the pass (is Mellor greedy? Or is he just trying shots, as good strikers do? If you don't shoot, you don't score).

But also watch Milan hit the byline, close to the six yard box - he does it game after game. He wins corners, or he pulls the ball back - such as for Luis G in the third minute on Sunday. Sometimes you want your strikers to run with the ball and commit men in the area - tv replays have shown that Milan should have won another five penalties this season, but for shit referees.

[Paul Tomkins]

Going back to an earlier point I made, Morientes' record, according to .tv, is 23 goals in 36 games in the red of Spain.

So that makes him more-or-less equal to Baros. Would nice to link the two of them...

[Life]

I think some of you need to realise that this is a reasoned debate on the merits of a Liverpool player - specifically in regard to the hero worshipping he gets and how he complements the team - or not.
I don't think anyone has said he's shite.
I don't think anyone has questioned the effort he puts in.
I don't think anyone is questioning that he gets his fair share of goals.

He's not on a bad run and people getting on his back.  No-ones saying "sell him while we can".  We're just debating "Meeeeelan" the phenomenon.

And talk of losing respect for RAWK because of this thread is sanctimonious, pompous and a little bizarre.  I think most posts on this have been well thought out - rather than one liner knee-jerk responses.  "Sensible and considered" you could say....what RAWK's all about eh?

[kneejerk]

why is milan so popular with the fans?
during houlliers reign there was a lot of very turgid games.baros represented plan b to some folk,or a glimpse of exciting attacking football we might possibly play in the future. players beating players is a joy to watch. i am still a big fan,and  its great to see a more attacking side this year.

[kneejerk]

I’m definitely here to be shot at

had crosshairs on your window for half an hour now,open the bloody curtains.

[Tarpaulin]

That is a very good post, and excellently communicated - as always.

I do agree with quite alot of it, but at the same time there is a slight niggle in the back of my mind that we cant really judge him until he has had a full season in the 1st team playing consistantly, be it with a perminant partner or not.

The points you make about the team having to accomodate him [similar to Macca in the mid 90's] is a point ive questioned in the past. But, do we do that already with Gerrard?

[Aidan_B]

I think that Baros has the potential to do very well for Liverpool, Benitez will certainly nurture his game and won't let him become Darren Huckerby.  He has many of the attributes to be a top class striker, not least the eye for goal and a good shot.  This is the reason for his incredible goal-scoring record at International level and his very good record for Liverpool.

I think the reason he has a huge backing from the Kop is simply that towards the end of Houlliers reign Heskey was the butt of many fans anger, whether they be match going, TV watching or keyboard warriors (ie, a complete cross-section of fans had lost patience with him).  Baros was not Heskey.  This argument is obviously a simplification, and ignores other factors (such as fans enjoying watching players beat a man) but I feel is a large reason for his popularity.

[jimmy_case]

Three points.

First: Rushie was shite in Italy - just 7 league goals in his season thdere. Therefore, he's shite - I mean, how can he be called world-class? (of course, I am joking -  but also pointing out that settling into a new country can be hard, especially when you're not given ample opportunities to shine).

Second: why does it have to be Baros is great and Owen was lazy, or Owen was great and Baros is selfish? Before it was Owen vs Fowler, now suddenly people are making it Owen vs Baros.

Third: as for being selfish/greedy, just watch the guy - Mellor shot weakly when he should have laid Milan in, and yet when the position was reversed Milan made the pass (is Mellor greedy? Or is he just trying shots, as good strikers do? If you don't shoot, you don't score).

But also watch Milan hit the byline, close to the six yard box - he does it game after game. He wins corners, or he pulls the ball back - such as for Luis G in the third minute on Sunday. Sometimes you want your strikers to run with the ball and commit men in the area - tv replays have shown that Milan should have won another five penalties this season, but for shit referees.

I registered here solely due to seeing this article referred to on one of them News Feed websites and was totally shocked at the biased and prejudicial twaddle I read. Happily, some posters here - as the above quote testifies - seem to have a more balanced and informed view of things but for a supposedly Liverpool Supporter's site, how you can publish articles of such poor excremental quality that are essesntially, even if denied, an attack on one of our players, is beyond me. I felt like I was reading from one of the poorer quality tabloids which I won't mention:

To see Baros being likened to Camara and Rosenthal, to make comparisons with how football was played 10 and 20 years ago as some sort of standard for his play today (Robbie always stood on the penalty spot was one particularly bizzarrely point, but indicative of the moronic simplicity of the article), to complain that he was ambitious enough to want to be the main striker sat the club, to infer Rafa was devasted at losing Owen and only then turned to Baros, to infer Baros still is just waiting to get to Barca, to ignore the fact that this is his first full season yet compare him with Rush etc, to clam he is "Seeing out time" blatantly ignoring the passion he shows each week on the pitch, etc etc .... all comments which would barely be acceptable on the back pages of the weaker tabloid press and all essentially an "attack" on Baros, one of Liverpool's most exciting players at the moment and a terrific young prospect who could become a real hero for the club (though with such obvious prejudice being shown against him already, in just his first full season, I guess that's actually going to be impossible).

[Paul Tomkins]

RAWK publishes articles that lead to debate - John Mac is often very positive. I disagree with him on this one, although sometimes he can be a little mischievous (and post stuff as a 'devil's advocate'). That a fair few people share his views on this one is interesting to me, but then we all see things differently.

[jimmy_case]

RAWK publishes articles that lead to debate - John Mac is often very positive. I disagree with him on this one, although sometimes he can be a little mischievous (and post stuff as a 'devil's advocate'). That a fair few people share his views on this one is interesting to me, but then we all see things differently.

I've just come across the article on a second Liverpool site/forum. For someone just supposedly interested in raising debate, he seems quite committed to spreading the attack on Baros elsewhere too. Is there a constructive reason to wanting to publish anti-Baros rants in as many places as possible?

[hooded claw]

  Is there a constructive reason to wanting to publish anti-Baros rants in as many places as possible?

The fame and the glory- you'll have to answer this Paul, if you can ask the supermodels to desist from pleasuring you as a result of your widespread acclaim...

[Spartacus.]

I've just come across the article on a second Liverpool site/forum. For someone just supposedly interested in raising debate, he seems quite committed to spreading the attack on Baros elsewhere too. Is there a constructive reason to wanting to publish anti-Baros rants in as many places as possible?

It is not a rant – it’s a well reasoned and thought out post – a post that as you can see just as many people agree with as do not, Johns post has lead to a good football debate that’s what we all like.

[Paul Tomkins]

I've just come across the article on a second Liverpool site/forum. For someone just supposedly interested in raising debate, he seems quite committed to spreading the attack on Baros elsewhere too. Is there a constructive reason to wanting to publish anti-Baros rants in as many places as possible?

You'd have to ask John! Anyway, welcome to RAWK. There's a wide range of opinions on the site, but most will be well argued, even if you disagree.

The fame and the glory- you'll have to answer this Paul, if you can ask the supermodels to desist from pleasuring you as a result of your widespread acclaim...

Could only get a catalogue model today - all the 'supers' were busy!
 

[hooded claw]

Could only get a catalogue model today - all the 'supers' were busy!
 

Jammy sod- all I could get to come round here were Airfix models...

[roym]

the guy scores......runs for lost causes......NEVER EVER HIDES......No excuses

The problem of not looking up: remember vs the blue shyte...pass to MO, last weekend pass to Mellor.....hes got some learning to do (but then again..who doesn't)
This is his first season as a starter, halfway through he's top scorer and MOTM at least twice

i call that significantly above average...... i'd have him anytime

[Tarpaulin]

The thing is Jimmy_Case, its all a matter of opinion.

Those of us that use RAWK [and other forums] quite a bit, know JohnMac, and know how much he sacrifices to watch the Redmen play all over the country & world. His opinion is respected, and I feel that although his post is a bit "out of left field" on this occassion, that he has put it across so well that I can understand many of the points made.

[Rushian]

Just noticed this article on the RAWK main page.

Always loved RAWK, because the views are so much more 'sensible' and considered than other websites, but I have to say that I found it very disappointing that such a unfairly critical and in places factually inaccurate article is given such a prominent place.

Love PT's articles, but have just lost a boatload of respect for RAWK.

The RAWK front page acts as an online fanzine - it's not a place for news stories. As such I will (as editor) consider anything well written and well considered even if I fundamentally disagree with the views therein.

I think john_mac's piece which I moved to the front page (he didn't submit it as an article) was in direct response to the following I wrote on Baros on the forum:

The most important signing for us in January ....

.... would be Milan Baros. I think it's imperative the club gives him a large pay rise as soon as possible and signs him up to a long term contract.

Since his return from injury he has been phenomenal. He should have played more at the end of last season (in fact it was mystifying he didn't - I know his non-selection was the last straw for a couple of ultra-Houllier loyalists).

I was lucky enough to see him live out in Portugal in Euro2004 where he shone brighter than any other striker with his pace, power and finishing. His performance in the Czech comeback from 2 down to beat Holland 3-2 will live long in the memory. What a game.

And now we have sustained evidence of his world class ability in a Red shirt. He clearly has the confidence of the manager and is taking it on the field and producing the goods. His display against C. Palace was as good as any Steven Gerrard has produced in the last year. Sunday's display against Newcastle provided further proof of his burgeoning talent.

I think Milan could become one of the great strikers in world football and he is accelerating towards that sobriquet at an incredible rate. He's allying the pace and power we always knew he had with some greatly assured finishing and an awareness of others on the pitch once thought missing.

He is the real deal. But don't tell anyone Wink

And there's another reason I posted john_mac's views - he's one of the most repsected and considered contributiors to RAWK. Take a look back through his articles in our archive and you'll find many wonderfully supportive yet perceptive articles on our club and players. Thus a contrary view on Baros from him carries far more weight than it would from a doomsayer ...

[jimmy_case]

It is not a rant – it’s a well reasoned and thought out post – a post that as you can see just as many people agree with as do not, Johns post has lead to a good football debate that’s what we all like.

I think it is fair to call it a rant based on the fact that there is so little of its content based on anything observable or on any evidence for its claims. As I mentioned in my first post, the article is based on innuendo, inference and daft juxtapositions of players from different decades and different playing styles.

I can appreciate that people here may accept that John Mac supports the club in body, if not in mind, and may know the guy's positions well etc, but as a fresh face to the site as I am, it reads like an unfounded, unsubstantiated and biased attack on one of this seasons best players which appears to be wholly destructive in intent and though it is just opinion (which is fine here on forum posts), I cannot understand why a Supporters Site would want to publish something of this nature on the main page.

[jimmy_case]

Cross posted there with Rushian, so sorry about that: I can see the point a bit more from his post.

[karrmadamaii]

I linked this article to a thread about Baros which I started in xtratime.org. Found that all the replies so far disagress (to a certain extent), or simply ignores John's opinion. There was no debate the last time I checked that thread, which I figured pretty much shows what the general Liverpool fans think about Baros.

I stay in Malaysia, thus I'm too far from places where you say Meelan-mania are up and thriving, however knowing how different ppl can be in terms of opinion and mentality, to me its a good thing that we have a Meelan-mania.

Most of the fans for a football team doesn't fall into the bracket of the well-informed, opinionated and knowledgeable fans simply because they maybe too far geographically to actually feel what the Kop is actually feeling/seeing. And even across a country as large as England, the Pool fans spread around the country doesn't get to live and breath the Scouse. So for these no-so-"connected" Pool fans, their judgement lies dominantly on what they see from live screenings of our matches, plus some internet forums and the papers. I believe its these ppl who are at the core of the Meelan-mania, which is sth not quite reasonable to John_mac. I understand his arguments, and for one who is very spiritually connected to Pool, he is entitled to his opinion.  He was jsut trying to get his opinion across for debate.

The way I see it, the Meelan-mania is sth good to have. It brings some optimism and enthusiasm as regards to anticipating our games every weekend. It brings the excitement and thrilling sensation that we once felt when we saw Saint Mike burst past defenders to bury a goal into the far corner with either boot. Given the rather subdued excitement that surrounds the club currently, its easy for these not-so-"connected" fans to get excited abt him and how he will affect our progress through out this season. I'm saying this because I am among these not-so"connected" fans, and I can vouch for all the Pool fans in Malaysia that they are as excited abt Milan as the Pool fans in Thailand, Australia, USA and where ever they are outside the city which gave birth to the god we all know.

John, I understand that you are simply not impressed as many of us with Milan. With the points you stated in your article, your opinion is well-taken. He has a lot too improve, but so did Saint Mike during the time before he won the Ballon D'Or. Even SIr Bobby Robson mentioned that Owen didn't have a good first touch and lacks the good technical ability of holding on the ball to keep possesion as a striker of his stature should have. But we are greatful ppl us Liverpool fans are, and we support -without prejudice, pre-judgement, over-judgement and double standards- whoever player that makes us jump up from our seats every weekend and scream at the top of our lungs to celebrate a goal.

Thus, I reiterate - I hope that Milan and  Rafa proves you wrong too.

Cheers mate. You'll Never Walk Alone.