Topic: Liverpool FC 1-1 Southampton FT

[Smellytrabs]

Shelvey left because he wanted 90 minutes a week and at the time the manager was still in his 'welsh xavi' phase.  He was always going to develop strongly..for his age he was fantastic and that cocksure attitude is often as important as the talent when determining if a player makes it at the top level.

Shelvey would be first choice for us every week now.  No question.

True that. I said yesterday after the game that he would be perfect for us at the minute. If we could get him back for a reasonable price we should consider it.

[TSC]

Shelvey left because he wanted 90 minutes a week and at the time the manager was still in his 'welsh xavi' phase.  He was always going to develop strongly..for his age he was fantastic and that cocksure attitude is often as important as the talent when determining if a player makes it at the top level.

Shelvey would be first choice for us every week now.  No question.

Yep I wouldn't argue with that Shelvey would walk into our midfield right now.  Which is a reflection of not just his development but also how our quality there has reduced.

[Ken-Obi]

We need scapegoats - this game's is Lallana who ironically had no hand in the late goal conceded to Manč. If we ended with 3 points, nobody would even bother. Why is no one talking about the defence?

[steveeastend]

True that. I said yesterday after the game that he would be perfect for us at the minute. If we could get him back for a reasonable price we should consider it.

But, again, what we are gonna do with all the rest we have now.... I am glad we have a big boy as a manager now who is strong enough and offers the reputation for taking on those really important and crucial decisions upcoming..

[rickardinho1]

It really is so poor how nobody challenged for Pelle's knock on header for their goal, everyone just sank deep.

Perhaps Lovren would solve that sort of issue? Would think that he wouldn't have allowed that first knock-on header on the edge of our box by Pelle, as he's more likely to have challenged that header rather than collapse backwards.

[red mongoose]

Yep I wouldn't argue with that Shelvey would walk into our midfield right now.  Which is a reflection of not just his development but also how our quality there has reduced.

Has he done something to address his lack of consistency? I haven't been watching them closely this season, but up until now he has had three or four poor or invisible performances for every good one. I just don't see the need for him and I would hope we are aiming higher than that, and I am very confident that we will be.

[Smellytrabs]

It really is so poor how nobody challenged for Pelle's knock on header for their goal, everyone just sank deep.

Perhaps Lovren would solve that sort of issue? Would think that he wouldn't have allowed that first knock-on header on the edge of our box by Pelle, as he's more likely to have challenged that header rather than collapse backwards.

Lovren is just nowhere near the quality of defender that Sakho and Skrtel are. I thought they both did well yesterday, and although the manner in which we conceded wasn't great i don't think Lovren is the answer. The initial flick on header on the edge was in front of the central defence, if you look at the flight of the ball Firmino is the player who should be winning the header. Maybe defending in the air isn't one of strengths, if it was maybe Lucas in that position it would have been cleared, or the flick-on at least wouldn't have been as clean as it was.

[Gene]

I don't understand the questions over Can. He's got an awful lot in his locker. Sure he's wasteful at times in the final third, but his technique is sound, he works hard, and is a physical presence that we need. He suffers from those in front of him not doing a job, but everyone does in our side right now. Our general play has been poor, hard to really single him out.

[DonkeyWan]

It really is so poor how nobody challenged for Pelle's knock on header for their goal, everyone just sank deep.

Perhaps Lovren would solve that sort of issue? Would think that he wouldn't have allowed that first knock-on header on the edge of our box by Pelle, as he's more likely to have challenged that header rather than collapse backwards.

There are a number of scenarios where I can see Lovren proving of real value.

1] A handy Lovren draft excluder. Considering he falls flat on his face  five or six times a game,  he could use this skill to instead lie across the base of the changing room door and help keep the dressing room snug and warm.

2] A mobile sign post. Standing outside Melwood he would hold up a sign over his head saying 'Training, this way lads, I will be there later, when I figure out how to do a six yard pass to my own team mate'. At the end of the day he could pack his sign away and drive home, though he might end up sliding sideways into the next street by accident.

3] A helpful light bulb changer. So for example if the light bulb blew in the physio room, rather than Sturridge jumping up and potentially having a career ending knee knack, he could lie back while Lovren reached up and put in a new, longer-lasting bulb. He could then flick the switch and pretend a light bulb had gone off over his head indicative of his usual once-a-match brain meltingly good idea/bad idea, right before he ran across the room and booted a ball through the roof and over the walls of the training ground.

4] A useful snow plough. With his manic lunges, pointless lollipops and 50 yard slide dashes that totally miss opposition players, he could quickly and effectively boot snow off the training pitches during winter.

5] An entertainer at a children's party. With his amazing, innate skill of doing something incredibly stupid and dangerous at inappropriate moments, he would have the wee wains rolling and spluttering with laughter for hours on end.

These are all the scenarios I could picture where Lovren would be useful None of them are on a  football pitch though.

[Smellytrabs]

Has he done something to address his lack of consistency? I haven't been watching them closely this season, but up until now he has had three or four poor or invisible performances for every good one. I just don't see the need for him and I would hope we are aiming higher than that, and I am very confident that we will be.

We should of course be also looking at a level above Jonjo. We do however find ourselves in a situation where it is close to impossible to select a balanced midfield with the players we have brought in over the last 3-4 years. We need to bring in players quick to rectify this. Although Jono is not world class, he is a fine player with lots of attributes that we are crying out for. He works hard, he puts in his tackles, he never hides from a game, he constantly shows for the ball, he’s intelligent, he can play centrally or further wide. For me he would start over anybody in yesterday’s midfield with exception of Lucas and Coutinho.

[Pistolero]

I just hope Jurgen reads this thread...he seems lost and in need of the valuable advice that is overflowing in here.

[Smellytrabs]

I don't understand the questions over Can. He's got an awful lot in his locker. Sure he's wasteful at times in the final third, but his technique is sound, he works hard, and is a physical presence that we need. He suffers from those in front of him not doing a job, but everyone does in our side right now. Our general play has been poor, hard to really single him out.

I think there are big question marks over what he can consistently bring to the table, and where he should actually play. There are several flaws in his game that makes me think he’s not going to make it with us.

[Smellytrabs]

I just hope Jurgen reads this thread...he seems lost and in need of the valuable advice that is overflowing in here.

 

[Redshadow]

I just hope Jurgen reads this thread...he seems lost and in need of the valuable advice that is overflowing in here.

Good, so let me add.. Get rid of Lallana, a Rolls Royce of a player with not output ... 

Having both him and Coutinho is a luxury as both tend to lose balls, but in Coutinho we at least know what we can get; he's done it.

Ich hoeffe dass Sie diesen kommentar doch lessen koennen, Herr Klopp.

[steveeastend]

I just hope Jurgen reads this thread...he seems lost and in need of the valuable advice that is overflowing in here.

For some reason, don't know why really, I have this feeling that he might know by himself... I can be wrong, but it's not out of the word, defintiely not..


Wir müssen uns verändern, von Zweiflern zu Gläubigen.. but yeah... yours way more charming..

[Caston]

I think there are big question marks over what he can consistently bring to the table, and where he should actually play. There are several flaws in his game that makes me think he’s not going to make it with us.

He's 21

[Smellytrabs]

He's 21

What position do you think he should play?

[fowlermagic]

2nd half looked a lot better and that is what you get with one class striker so god knows what we will do with two class acts once they start together. Anyone who keeps beating the drum to start one striker up front and 10 other guys behind him who combined might bring you 10 league goals by season's end should be beaten to death with their 3-4-2-1 / 5-4-1 / whatever plus 1 formations. If we had the likes of Hazard, Robben, Messi & Co then fire away but instead we have a pick of midfielders who's assist / goals tallies have been very poor in the red of Liverpool excluding Henderson (and he is not the solution).

Anyway things will get better, they have to but can we stop defending set pieces with 30 yards btw us & Simon allowing the free taker acres of space to aim his cross and our lads all are on their back heels falling back trying to get to the ball faced to their own goal. Silly stuff

[plura]

It still looks like the ball was going out for a throw-in, but they got a corner out of that. It cut away when live so I didn't see.

Yep it definitively went out for a throw-in. Guess neither of the refs had a chance to keep up.

[Gaz123456]

Yep I wouldn't argue with that Shelvey would walk into our midfield right now.  Which is a reflection of not just his development but also how our quality there has reduced.

Would Swansea be tempted with a swap for Joe Allen (and a few quid no doubt?)

[Caston]

What position do you think he should play?

Midfield. He's a good option for CB too, but he's still very young and hasn't played that much in center midfield. Luckily he has one of the best managers around to make him for-fill his potential.

[TSC]

Has he done something to address his lack of consistency? I haven't been watching them closely this season, but up until now he has had three or four poor or invisible performances for every good one. I just don't see the need for him and I would hope we are aiming higher than that, and I am very confident that we will be.

From watching him on a few occasions this season he appears to have improved considerably.  I'm not suggesting he's the 'answer' to a lack of creativity in midfield, of course there are better players out there.  Merely pointing out that he's better than what's here at the moment.

[fowlermagic]

In regards to shelvey his time has come & gone here. I doubt if Klopp even knows who he is and if I was a betting man, I really doubt Klopp would be looking to Swansea to improve our midfield to a top 4 / CL quality. The man will be raiding Top 4 / CL quality sides for their best players not Swansea's.

[Il Conte]

2nd half looked a lot better and that is what you get with one class striker so god knows what we will do with two class acts once they start together. Anyone who keeps beating the drum to start one striker up front and 10 other guys behind him who combined might bring you 10 league goals by season's end should be beaten to death with their 3-4-2-1 / 5-4-1 / whatever plus 1 formations. If we had the likes of Hazard, Robben, Messi & Co then fire away but instead we have a pick of midfielders who's assist / goals tallies have been very poor in the red of Liverpool excluding Henderson (and he is not the solution).

Spot on. Hopefully the fact that we have three very capable strikers in Sturridge, Benteke and Ings will be what really gets us going. Klopp could make that trio unplayable with  players like Coutinho and Firmino pulling the strings from deeper positions.

[ThePeetmix]

I think there are big question marks over what he can consistently bring to the table, and where he should actually play. There are several flaws in his game that makes me think he’s not going to make it with us.

He's already made it with us. He's a regular first team player. Long term I think he'll be a holding midfielder, but he does a good job next to Lucas.

[robertobaggio37]

We could buy Shelvey, I reckon he will be picked up anyway by one of the top 4...

If we want a player from Swansea then it's Gylfi for me. Great little player and still only 26. Underrated by many but I think he'd be perfect for us and he's a free kick specialist too.

[BabuYagu]

Itīs really sad to see so many people looking for scapegoats again. Milner, Coutinho, Divock, Can, I even see Lucas, Moreno and Lallana taking a lot of it despite being in the top performers every game since Klopp joined.

Try to just calm the fuck down and stop acting like a bunch of twats. For the past 18 months the players have been coached to play a slow tempo and use 1 v 1 skills to unlock defences. No idea why but you seen in every single game. We plod up to the edge of the box, then just fuck around waiting for a moment of individual brilliance to get us a goal. Unfortunately there wasnīt enough individual brilliance and so Rodgers was sacked.

Now all the players who were tasked with doing this (Lallana, Coutinho, Ibe etc) have all been in poor form, all slow down our attacks and all hold the ball way too long. You canīt just flick a switch and expect them to instantly play quick, 1 touch football. Also players who are new to the club like Milner, Firmino etc are/were trying to play a quicker tempo but because they were on a different wave length to their new team mates, they struggled. Players like Markovic who refused to adapt to the way ROdgers wanted were shipped out. Yet seem exactly what we need now. Players who want to play a quick, direct, incisive way. Lots of 1-2īs etc.

So we are were we are. Klopp is focusing more on shape and pressing and therefore hasnīt set aside much time to dealing with out ponderous attacking play carried over from the Rodgers era. He will though but it just takes time and patience. Two things our fan base doesnīt seem to have. It also will need us to not react like little bitches every time we donīt win a game. Something which seems impossible for a lot of RAWK.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

2nd half looked a lot better and that is what you get with one class striker so god knows what we will do with two class acts once they start together. Anyone who keeps beating the drum to start one striker up front and 10 other guys behind him who combined might bring you 10 league goals by season's end should be beaten to death with their 3-4-2-1 / 5-4-1 / whatever plus 1 formations. If we had the likes of Hazard, Robben, Messi & Co then fire away but instead we have a pick of midfielders who's assist / goals tallies have been very poor in the red of Liverpool excluding Henderson (and he is not the solution).

Anyway things will get better, they have to but can we stop defending set pieces with 30 yards btw us & Simon allowing the free taker acres of space to aim his cross and our lads all are on their back heels falling back trying to get to the ball faced to their own goal. Silly stuff

If the second half looked a lot better, I'm assuming you had a shed load of ale at half time (And who could blame you?)

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Itīs really sad to see so many people looking for scapegoats again. Milner, Coutinho, Divock, Can, I even see Lucas, Moreno and Lallana taking a lot of it despite being in the top performers every game since Klopp joined.

Try to just calm the fuck down and stop acting like a bunch of twats. For the past 18 months the players have been coached to play a slow tempo and use 1 v 1 skills to unlock defences. No idea why but you seen in every single game. We plod up to the edge of the box, then just fuck around waiting for a moment of individual brilliance to get us a goal. Unfortunately there wasnīt enough individual brilliance and so Rodgers was sacked.

Now all the players who were tasked with doing this (Lallana, Coutinho, Ibe etc) have all been in poor form, all slow down our attacks and all hold the ball way too long. You canīt just flick a switch and expect them to instantly play quick, 1 touch football. Also players who are new to the club like Milner, Firmino etc are/were trying to play a quicker tempo but because they were on a different wave length to their new team mates, they struggled. Players like Markovic who refused to adapt to the way ROdgers wanted were shipped out. Yet seem exactly what we need now. Players who want to play a quick, direct, incisive way. Lots of 1-2īs etc.

So we are were we are. Klopp is focusing more on shape and pressing and therefore hasnīt set aside much time to dealing with out ponderous attacking play carried over from the Rodgers era. He will though but it just takes time and patience. Two things our fan base doesnīt seem to have. It also will need us to not react like little bitches every time we donīt win a game. Something which seems impossible for a lot of RAWK.

Why are people twats for being honest?

Accepting that there is a way to go and that'll take time isn't an issue. Bouncing optimism and 'pretend we're ace' stuff isn't that helpful.

[Sangria]

We could buy Shelvey, I reckon he will be picked up anyway by one of the top 4...

If we're talking about former players who could do a job for us, then Kuyt better fits the description. What we're lacking most is someone who will consistently run into threatening positions with the mentality to finish chances. Going back to the end of the 10-11 season, our attack consisted of Suarez plus 3 generic runners. We don't have Suarez now, but our attack is still overloaded with players who create for others. Get a few runners in, either from the treatment table or the transfer market, and our attack will look much better.

[ThePeetmix]

Why are people twats for being honest?

Accepting that there is a way to go and that'll take time isn't an issue. Bouncing optimism and 'pretend we're ace' stuff isn't that helpful.

No-one is pretending we're ace. People are criticising performances and identifying where we're going wrong currently.

Saying players won't make it here or saying that sunday league players are better than Lallana is the kind of thing you expect to see on facebook, not RAWK.

[Twelfth Man]

Itīs really sad to see so many people looking for scapegoats again. Milner, Coutinho, Divock, Can, I even see Lucas, Moreno and Lallana taking a lot of it despite being in the top performers every game since Klopp joined.

Try to just calm the fuck down and stop acting like a bunch of twats. For the past 18 months the players have been coached to play a slow tempo and use 1 v 1 skills to unlock defences. No idea why but you seen in every single game. We plod up to the edge of the box, then just fuck around waiting for a moment of individual brilliance to get us a goal. Unfortunately there wasnīt enough individual brilliance and so Rodgers was sacked.

Now all the players who were tasked with doing this (Lallana, Coutinho, Ibe etc) have all been in poor form, all slow down our attacks and all hold the ball way too long. You canīt just flick a switch and expect them to instantly play quick, 1 touch football. Also players who are new to the club like Milner, Firmino etc are/were trying to play a quicker tempo but because they were on a different wave length to their new team mates, they struggled. Players like Markovic who refused to adapt to the way ROdgers wanted were shipped out. Yet seem exactly what we need now. Players who want to play a quick, direct, incisive way. Lots of 1-2īs etc.

So we are were we are. Klopp is focusing more on shape and pressing and therefore hasnīt set aside much time to dealing with out ponderous attacking play carried over from the Rodgers era. He will though but it just takes time and patience. Two things our fan base doesnīt seem to have. It also will need us to not react like little bitches every time we donīt win a game. Something which seems impossible for a lot of RAWK.

Exactly how is see it. We have too many tiki-taka players. Klopp from what I have read, wants to be more direct, get the ball in the penalty box as quick as we can. We relied on Gerrard to provide that killer pass. Hope Klopp can find or coach someone to take up that role. The key thing is that teams are creating less chances against us, we look a lot more solid at the back. He said you start with the defence and then move up from there. That we can see signs already is a measure of just how good a coach/manager he is. Patience.

[fillmein777]

The real depressing that since Suarez left, we have had four transfer windows to sort the team out and it is weaker than the point at which he left.  Granted injuries have played their part, but how the hell have we gotten here? 

I watched yesterday and saw a distinct lack of quality in most places on the pitch. 

Klopp is right in his message that he needs time - we should give him three years and not question a thing.  The whole place needs rebuilding and re-coaching. 

I know people will say that Hendo and Sturridge coming back will solve a lot (it will) and that we've been unlucky that Ings got injured after a very promising start but all big clubs have big injuries and seem to cope well. 

The game against Chelsea is so big for both teams - if we beat them, it could spell the end of Mourinho (would love that) but if we lose, it could push us quite far away from the top 4 and them closer to it. 

I don't care about the league cup and hope it is a team of kids and the second string.  I'd want Bogdan, Toure, Allen, Ibe, Origi all over that team. 

[BabuYagu]

Why are people twats for being honest?

Accepting that there is a way to go and that'll take time isn't an issue. Bouncing optimism and 'pretend we're ace' stuff isn't that helpful.

Well that is kinda my point. The people who are at either extreme are the problem. I donīt think I said anybody should pretend we are awesome. I said elsewhere before that we are effectively in pre-season right now, so we need pre-season expectations of games. Before it goes right, a lot will go wrong. Klopp even said this himself. People need to make these mistakes first to learn from them.

Also you deem "being honest" people taking a shit on whatever player they decide is to blame for our poor form?

[SerbianScouser]

all big clubs have big injuries and seem to cope well. 

We had our entire forward line out injured recently. Sturridge, Ings, Firmino, Benteke; nobody can cope with that.

[Twelfth Man]

BabuYagu it is the contrasting styles you point out between Rodgers and Klopp that makes the transition a bit more difficult. We have gone from possession for possessions sake to trying to play with purpose. It is going to be difficult for players like Coutinho, Lallana to adapt. Some might not make it, others might get a second chance. It won't happen overnight either way.

[Twelfth Man]

Klopp is right in his message that he needs time - we should give him three years and not question a thing.  The whole place needs rebuilding and re-coaching. 

I know people will say that Hendo and Sturridge coming back will solve a lot (it will) and that we've been unlucky that Ings got injured after a very promising start but all big clubs have big injuries and seem to cope well. 

The game against Chelsea is so big for both teams - if we beat them, it could spell the end of Mourinho (would love that) but if we lose, it could push us quite far away from the top 4 and them closer to it. 

It is a bigger game for them. They already have a side capable of winning the league, and a manager who has been with them for a long-time. For us it is just part of Klopp's learning curve.

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

He will though but it just takes time and patience. Two things our fan base doesnīt seem to have. It also will need us to not react like little bitches every time we donīt win a game. Something which seems impossible for a lot of RAWK.

 

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Well that is kinda my point. The people who are at either extreme are the problem. I donīt think I said anybody should pretend we are awesome. I said elsewhere before that we are effectively in pre-season right now, so we need pre-season expectations of games. Before it goes right, a lot will go wrong. Klopp even said this himself. People need to make these mistakes first to learn from them.

Also you deem "being honest" people taking a shit on whatever player they decide is to blame for our poor form?

Not sure about that. I've had people personally attack me when I've said that we've got a way to go and predicting that we'd get a 1-1 yesterday.

Apparantly I was being 'negative' - and yet managed to predict the score accurately.

I'm not concerned, there is a confidence issue at the club and not winning has its own toll. I was disappointed that we didn't go for the jugular in the Thursday night game - a win and breaking our streak would have made a world of difference. Klopp did change things around. But too little, too late.

But he's got time. If we finished mid-table but pushed on next season then that would be fine. We have a long way to go and hopefully a manager that plans for the future rather than just next week.

[peachybum]

We need scapegoats - this game's is Lallana who ironically had no hand in the late goal conceded to Manč. If we ended with 3 points, nobody would even bother. Why is no one talking about the defence?

Because our defence isn't really the problem. It's scoring goals. Can you imagine the pressure those lads at the back are under knowing that 1 goal conceded almost certainly means we won't win. We're never comfortable. The points are always in danger. No wonder they fuck up now and then. If those attacking players like Lallana could create or convert on a regular bases and give the guys at the back a break then we'd be fine.