Author Topic: The Beatles (Read 26217 times)

Sir Capon of Debaser · « **Reply #160 on:** January 5, 2009, 12:14:55 am »

i have 2 copies of the quarrymen's 1st single on bootleg copy.ill have to root em out like.but phoned up an auction house(well i phoned a few actually) about prices etc and they told me i couldnt sell em in their as they are bootlegs.and its illegal

must be worth a bit though

nutmeg94 · « **Reply #161 on:** January 5, 2009, 12:36:15 am »

Quote from: Jankulovski on January 5, 2009, 12:06:48 am

Not meaning to be cynical, I love the Beatles and everything, but if you're looking at all the reasons that they're still so successful, you could look at the fact that one of the members, and one of the most well known people on the planet, was shot dead when he was only 40. Obviously not the only reason for their success, far from it, but there's definitely something there; look at the enduring reputations and fan bases for James Dean, Marilyn Monroe etc.

I've no doubt that if Lennon was alive and well today, they'd still be the most popular band of all-time.

Can see where you're coming from though.

Sir Capon of Debaser · « **Reply #162 on:** January 5, 2009, 12:39:53 am »

Quote from: nutmeg94 on January 5, 2009, 12:36:15 am

I've no doubt that if Lennon was alive and well today, they'd still be the most popular band of all-time.

Can see where you're coming from though.

Doubt it mate.

12 copies were sold before Lennon was shot.and then record sales went through the roof as well as glasses

Jankulovski · « **Reply #163 on:** January 5, 2009, 12:45:02 am »

Quote from: nutmeg94 on January 5, 2009, 12:36:15 am

I've no doubt that if Lennon was alive and well today, they'd still be the most popular band of all-time.

Can see where you're coming from though.

Definitely agree, you look at their popularity when they were all still together, it was unprecedented. However, I think Lennon's death certainly won't have damaged record sales and the like.

Sir Capon of Debaser · « **Reply #164 on:** January 5, 2009, 12:47:09 am »

Quote from: Terry De Niro on January 5, 2009, 12:07:51 am

Fucking hell. Don't get me started..

The toast one was a good place to start

Terry de Niro · « **Reply #165 on:** January 5, 2009, 01:10:14 am »

Quote from: Capon Debaser on January 5, 2009, 12:47:09 am

The toast one was a good place to start

Here you go..

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyUPlMnlOLs

Phil M · « **Reply #166 on:** January 5, 2009, 01:14:49 am »

Quote from: Terry De Niro on January 5, 2009, 01:10:14 am

Here you go..

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyUPlMnlOLs

Knew it wouldn't be long.

Mackeroo · « **Reply #167 on:** January 5, 2009, 03:41:42 am »

Simply because they were so far ahead of their time.

Sgt. Peppers was made in 64 and is still relevant and a fucking top, top album.

A Day In The Life is an amazing tune, so much depth and so many parts to it. Compare that to the other shit that was on the radio back then and there's actually no comparison.

The Beatles were revolutionary. If you made that album nowadays you'd be well pleased with yourself, let alone 45 years ago!

Terry de Niro · « **Reply #168 on:** January 5, 2009, 03:47:17 am »

Quote from: Mackeroo on January 5, 2009, 03:41:42 am

Sgt. Peppers was made in 64 and is still relevant and a fucking top, top album.

66/67 mate..

Mackeroo · « **Reply #169 on:** January 5, 2009, 03:56:58 am »

Quote from: Terry De Niro on January 5, 2009, 03:47:17 am

66/67 mate..

Apologies Terry, I'm still young and foolish!

SalisburyRed · « **Reply #170 on:** January 5, 2009, 08:13:01 pm »

Great lyrics.
Great tunes.
Great riffs.
Way ahead of their time.

Stussy · « **Reply #171 on:** January 5, 2009, 08:23:42 pm »

Yeah as Terry said, George Martin really focussed them and channeled their ideas, imposed order on their ideas in the latter part of their career, no doubt about it at all, he was, musically, the fifth Beatle.

The Beatles themselves named three men as 'the fifth Beatle' -- Brian Epstein, Neil Aspinall, their friend from the start, started off as their roadie, and became their business manager and head of Apple Corps, and George Martin the music producer.

nutmeg94 · « **Reply #172 on:** January 5, 2009, 08:38:51 pm »

Quote from: Mackeroo on January 5, 2009, 03:41:42 am

A Day In The Life is an amazing tune, so much depth and so many parts to it. Compare that to the other shit that was on the radio back then and there's actually no comparison.

What a song. Wouldn't dare say the music on the radio was shit in '67 though.

Especially compared to today's shite.

rushyman · « **Reply #173 on:** January 5, 2009, 08:46:54 pm »

I love the fact that Ive met people in bands who say the beatles are boring but are totally derived from their music along with the people they do like. Wouldnt exist without them in fact

Ignorant and respectless and always always arrogant and big-headed in the extreme

FinnishRed · « **Reply #174 on:** January 5, 2009, 09:27:15 pm »

Stussy's and Timbo's replies are absolutely brilliant and spot on. Those and a pile of Beatles albums are the answer to the first post.

FinnishRed · « **Reply #175 on:** January 5, 2009, 09:35:44 pm »

It's also stunning how far The Beatles progressed in such a short space of time they existed as a band. I mean from fifties three chord rock n roll songs to songs like Tomorrow Never Knows, A Day In Life, Revolution 9, Eleanor Rigby and lots of others. They were the first to do so many many things others at that time couldn't even dream of.

gadair · « **Reply #176 on:** January 5, 2009, 09:43:01 pm »

love the beatles fuckin boss listen to them loads on the ipod

courty61 · « **Reply #177 on:** January 5, 2009, 09:45:46 pm »

As Kurt Kobain said about where he wanted to take Nirvana (before he blew his head off):

"I want to be as innovative as The Beatles were, they went from 'She Loves You' to 'Sgt. Pepper' in 5 years"

Ray K · « **Reply #178 on:** January 5, 2009, 09:51:22 pm »

Quote from: coffeehead on January 4, 2009, 10:19:40 pm

If you haven't seen it already I suggest you beg/borrow or download a copy of the Lennon and McCartney episode of Howard Goodall's Twentieth-Century Greats, which will give you a really comprehensive introduction into their creative abilities and their influence

Great shout mate. Looked it up again on youtube:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Zddh5Vp-ApI Part 1
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=kb5jt6BD3Ik&feature=related Part 2 etc

The part on Tomorrow Never Knows is particularly good:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ffZQWDDQwWM&feature=related pt 6

FinnishRed · « **Reply #179 on:** January 5, 2009, 09:51:56 pm »

Quote from: courty61 on January 5, 2009, 09:45:46 pm

As Kurt Kobain said about where he wanted to take Nirvana (before he blew his head off):

"I want to be as innovative as The Beatles were, they went from 'She Loves You' to 'Sgt. Pepper' in 5 years"

Talking about Nirvana, I was waching a document of their classic album Nevermind the other day. At first, Kurt didn't want his vocals on the album to be double tracked, but only after the producer told him about Lennon's doubletracked vocals on Beatles albums, Kurt wanted them to be done the same way as his heroes had done.

Stussy · « **Reply #180 on:** January 5, 2009, 09:55:02 pm »

Quote from: FinnishRed on January 5, 2009, 09:35:44 pm

It's also stunning how far The Beatles progressed in such a short space of time they existed as a band. I mean from fifties three chord rock n roll songs to songs like Tomorrow Never Knows, A Day In Life, Revolution 9, Eleanor Rigby and lots of others. They were the first to do so many many things others at that time couldn't even dream of.

Their range is incredible. Take one step further back to get a sense of it all.

When they first got into music Paul and John and George were messing around in their bedrooms and backyards playing skiffle music with a spoon on washboards, picked up their guitars, sang simple three chord rock and roll, and a decade later they were incorporating complex Indian raga structures into their music. It's just phenomenal, their range. And all the important work was completed in the space of a decade. The entire history of music altered in a decade. They took everything from American delta blues to Eastern sitar music, English music hall, folk songs, orchestral classical, ballads, sea shanties, every single thing they'd ever heard or felt, intertwined it all with the wit and sensibility and imaginary landscapes formed by their Liverpool upbringing, and just blended it into their brew and made music that was utterly original and universal and most of all, timeless. All this in just ten years.

lurganboy · « **Reply #181 on:** January 5, 2009, 10:04:37 pm »

They began almost in a banal fashion. Love Me Do is a shite, plodding song. But their evolution was astonishing. Please please me - their second single - is fantastic. Their B-sides, stuff like There's a place and This Boy just showed a band in artistic lift-off.

And once they reached their mid-period zenith they reached a place no-one else has ever touched. The quality of the music, the lyrics, the conceptulism, the audacity, the wit, the production.

I still find to listen to songs like I'm Only Sleeping, Yesterday, Tomorrow Never Knows, I am the Walrus, The Long and Winding Road (though strictly the Naked version, not its Phil Spector Let It Be travesty) to be an astonishing experience. They sound almost too perfect to be true.

FinnishRed · « **Reply #182 on:** January 5, 2009, 10:17:15 pm »

Quote from: Stussy on January 5, 2009, 09:55:02 pm

Their range is incredible. Take one step further back to get a sense of it all.
When they first got into music Paul and John and George were messing around in their bedrooms and backyards playing skiffle music with a spoon on washboards, picked up their guitars, sang simple three chord rock and roll, and a decade later they were incorporating complex Indian raga structures into their music. It's just phenomenal, their range. And all the important work was completed in the space of a decade. The entire history of music altered in a decade. They took everything from American delta blues to Eastern sitar music, English music hall, folk songs, orchestral classical, ballads, sea shanties, every single thing they'd ever heard or felt, intertwined it all with the wit and sensibility and imaginary landscapes formed by their Liverpool upbringing, and just blended it into their brew and made music that was utterly original and universal and most of all, timeless. All this in just ten years.

Wonderfully said again mate.

Their range being truly phenomenal must have been one of the reason too why they touched so many people during their time. Of course the Eppy -made clean imade was another factor too. (John and the band 'had to sell' themselves for Establishment he so much hated.) Good music the most important reason after all though. But anyway, what I mean is, that anyone could find a Beatles song they would like, as there was so many different kind of songs and different styles to choose from. While the fifties rock n roll was basically just a teenagers' music, The Fabs were the first band to be liked and listened by all kinds of people, nevermind what your age, background, social status, race, colour or anything was.

shelovesyou · « **Reply #183 on:** January 5, 2009, 11:02:49 pm »

the beatles are bigger than Jesus ................
there, ive said it

Bobby Fury · « **Reply #184 on:** January 6, 2009, 06:55:31 pm »

There's not much I can add here. There are some excellent points that have been discussed. Nice job everyone!

What I can add is that The Beatles were always moving forward. They rarely, if ever repeated themselves. I can't think of any "new" songs they wrote that was just a remake of one of their previous hits. And, they were always looking for new sounds while they were recording.

Another point about George Martin: When he was auditioning them, the philosophy at the time was to chose one band member as the lead singer/star. He realized that he had two very strong singers/personalities and didn't have to follow that line of thinking. Also, he was very open to any ideas they had, especially as they got more accustomed to working in the recording studio.

۩ Imperator ۩ · « **Reply #185 on:** January 6, 2009, 07:04:29 pm »

As Victor Lewis-Smith said, "The Beatles are dying in the wrong order".

Lennon was the inspiration.
Harrison was the execution.
Starr is a little bit useless.
McCartney is a prize c*nt.

shelovesyou · « **Reply #186 on:** January 6, 2009, 07:16:55 pm »

dont forget they gave us the Music Video aswell ..........
the other thing is they mastered all genres of music and didnt just stay within their saftey net of catchy love songs , they experimented , they almost invented some genres of music , Tomorrow Never Knows was probably the first ever Dance tune - they never settled with what they could do and its alot to do with the fact they gave up touring , they just wouldnt of developed as much if they hadnt of done

coffeehead · « **Reply #187 on:** January 6, 2009, 07:36:20 pm »

Quote from: Stussy on January 5, 2009, 09:55:02 pm

. All this in just ten years.

And at such a young age. I keep banging on about it but their ability as composers, particularly McCartney was phenomenal for their age and given they had no musical training and couldn't read or write music.

Whether they always deliberately utilised all those influences or whether some (particularly the ones from times past) just appeared because they'd absorbed them listening to other music as they grew up is unclear.

What's also odd is that, in my opinion at least, McCartney lost a lot of his creative flair very quickly post-Beatles

ConnieLFC · « **Reply #188 on:** January 6, 2009, 08:23:47 pm »

Quote from: Bobby Fury on January 6, 2009, 06:55:31 pm

Another point about George Martin: When he was auditioning them, the philosophy at the time was to chose one band member as the lead singer/star. He realized that he had two very strong singers/personalities and didn't have to follow that line of thinking. Also, he was very open to any ideas they had, especially as they got more accustomed to working in the recording studio.

Interesting this comment about Martin and one earlier in the thread from Stussy about how he channeled their ideas and focused them.... Certainly not taking anything away from Martin's contributions as they were immense *but*...

I can't imagine there's any way either John or Paul would have stood for the other being the sole lead vocalist in the group. Not sure Martin deserves credit for that so much as those two wouldn't have done it any other way.

And re the studio bit... I'm currently reading Geoff Emerick's book (initially asst recording engineer, then eventually chief engineer for the group at EMI). While what Stussy said about Martin is certainly true, guys like Norman Smith and Emerick were just as pivotal (and in some ways more so) to the music and no doubt partially explain how the group was able to transition so quickly from the basics of Love Me Do to a Tomorrow Never Knows. When you start hearing sounds you never thought possible while fooling around in the studio, you start imagining what else you can do...

Certainly Martin gets full credit for the musical arrangement/embellishments that were a big part of their material but the whole aural landscape that we love in their recordings (whether the raw/live feel of the earlier stuff to the sonic wash in some of the later) was down to having some stellar folks pushing the buttons/moving the mics/twiddling the dials behind the scenes as well.

kavah · « **Reply #189 on:** January 6, 2009, 08:49:08 pm »

I was talking to a colleague in Hamburg today, he is in his 60s and saw them a few times ( which I believe as he's not a bullshitter).

he reckons the Hamburg experience made them become slick / tight as fuck and understand how to please a crowd / get them going and bring the mood down again depending on how the evening was going.

so when they returned to Liverpool and started recording and touring they were seasoned pros despite being very young.

he also pointed out Astrid gave them cool as fuck haircuts too.

shelovesyou · « **Reply #190 on:** January 6, 2009, 08:52:09 pm »

Quote from: kavah on January 6, 2009, 08:49:08 pm

I was talking to a colleague in Hamburg today, he is in his 60s and saw them a few times ( which I believe as he's not a bullshitter).

he reckons the Hamburg experience made them become slick / tight as fuck and understand how to please a crowd / get them going and bring the mood down again depending on how the evening was going.

so when they returned to Liverpool and started recording and touring they were seasoned pros despite being very young.

he also pointed out Astrid gave them cool as fuck haircuts too.

Hamburg made the beatles , they played 10 hours a day every day for weeks and thats gonna do yer group massive favours in terms of getting tight and knowing eachothers playing etc , shame that Harrison was busted for being too young but it fuckin made them im tellin yer

Sasquatch · « **Reply #191 on:** January 7, 2009, 09:58:15 am »

It's not just the Beatles who are still popular. Other older acts like Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd are still very very popular too (witness the demand for their reunions), while the Stones keep getting huge crowds coming to see them. Elvis is also still popular.

Legends live on and never fade away. That's the real answer.

IfOnlyYouKnew · « **Reply #192 on:** January 7, 2009, 10:26:54 am »

That's a tough one. People might say TIMING, some others think it's because
they played over 250 gigs together on UK and Hamburg circuits,
honing their skills as song writers and getting very very tight and polished.

I believe that they we're just EXTRAordinary. Genius I think would be the word. Popular music's mozart. One thing is for sure they will NEVER be surpassed.

When one considers that their recording life was little more than 6 years (63-69), and that bands the likes of Oasis have now been together for 16 years, then that gives you an idea of how amazing they were. In six short years they went from LOVE LOVE ME DO to HELTER SKELTER. The fact that tracks such as TOMORROW NEVER KNOWS is now 43 years old is quite remarkable. But the one thing that sets them apart from ANY other band, was that (bar experimental stuff such as YELLOW SUBMARINE/ Revolution Number 9 etc) EVERY single track...even the so called 'album fillers' was nigh on perfection.

These are the reasons (and the fact that Lennon was executed) that the Beatles are Still popular today!!!

IfOnlyYouKnew · « **Reply #193 on:** January 7, 2009, 10:30:40 am »

Quote from: ? Imperator ? on January 6, 2009, 07:04:29 pm

As Victor Lewis-Smith said, "The Beatles are dying in the wrong order".

Lennon was the inspiration.
Harrison was the execution.
Starr is a little bit useless.
McCartney is a prize c*nt.

Then its Victor Lewis-Smith who is the prize c*nt!
The Beatles where 4 sides of the same coin. A chain! Yes there were stronger links than others...but lose any of the links and the chain would have...well you know what I'm saying

FinnishRed · « **Reply #194 on:** January 7, 2009, 03:02:05 pm »

Quote from: kavah on January 6, 2009, 08:49:08 pm

I was talking to a colleague in Hamburg today, he is in his 60s and saw them a few times ( which I believe as he's not a bullshitter).

he reckons the Hamburg experience made them become slick / tight as fuck and understand how to please a crowd / get them going and bring the mood down again depending on how the evening was going.

so when they returned to Liverpool and started recording and touring they were seasoned pros despite being very young.

he also pointed out Astrid gave them cool as fuck haircuts too.

Quote from: shelovesyouyehyehyeh on January 6, 2009, 08:52:09 pm

Hamburg made the beatles , they played 10 hours a day every day for weeks and thats gonna do yer group massive favours in terms of getting tight and knowing eachothers playing etc , shame that Harrison was busted for being too young but it fuckin made them im tellin yer

Is right. The Beatles themselves always said the same, that it was the Hamburg experience that made them. 'Being forced' to play and entertain 7-8 hours a night either made them quit very fast, or made you very very tight as a group and good musically.

George was deported because The Beatles had moved to Peter Echorn's Top Ten Club at the time they when they were still under a contract to previous (and second) club they played at Hamburg, Kaiserkeller. The owner Bruno Koschmider being furious about this, and knowing George was still under age, let the local authorities know about this and get him out of the country. Or that's how the legend goes. Paul and Pete also got themselves sent back to Liverpool thanks to setting the condom on fire at Koschmider's Bambi Kino where they were staying then, the owner claiming they tried to burn down the whole place. Bit of a boyish prank.

The group having returned back to Liverpool and billed as 'direct from Hamburg' were pretty much a sensation back home, many girls and teenagers believing they were actually a German band. This being late 1960, the group went back to Hamburg to play more shows during the next to years 61 & 62.

If anyone has Live At Hamburg Star Club 1962, you can hear the savage young Fabs doing their repertoire during that era. Full of energy, some very fast songs, lots of passion etc.

Ray K · « **Reply #195 on:** January 12, 2009, 09:06:51 pm »

This thread has made me dig out my Ian McDonald book and I came across a fact that i find mind-boggling.

Macca wrote Let It Be and The Long & Winding Road on the same day.

Now, us mere mortals, (if we ever had any talent and what-not) if any of us had written a song like Let It Be, we would probably think 'Fuck me, that was a good day. I think I'll watch countdown and eat some hob nobs while web surfing'.
McCartney went and wrote the Long & Winding Road afterwards. Another song of sheer perfection (despite Spector's ham-fisted sabotage job).

Music must have poured out of Lennon & McCartney during the 60's. Their work ethic was incredible (and this was pretty much at a time that they loathed each other).

jp2 · « **Reply #196 on:** January 12, 2009, 09:46:39 pm »

Quote from: kavah on January 6, 2009, 08:49:08 pm

he reckons the Hamburg experience made them become slick / tight as fuck and understand how to please a crowd / get them going and bring the mood down again depending on how the evening was going.

Malcom Gladwell's new book Outliers makes this point through the lens of social science:

Quote

All told, they performed for 270 nights in just over a year and a half. By the time they had their first burst of success in 1964, they had performed live an estimated 1,200 times, which is extraordinary. Most bands today don't perform 1,200 times in their entire careers. The Hamburg crucible is what set the Beatles apart.

Great posts above - I'd like to add that the complimentary nature of Lennon and McCartney was incredibly fruitful. McCartney was a great musician in every sense, especially with structure. Lennon added his touch of imagination (no pun intended) and creativity that took a lot of their songs to a new, different and special level.

Stussy · « **Reply #197 on:** January 12, 2009, 10:51:28 pm »

Quote from: rk8386 on January 12, 2009, 09:06:51 pm

This thread has made me dig out my Ian McDonald book and I came across a fact that i find mind-boggling.

Macca wrote Let It Be and The Long & Winding Road on the same day.

Now, us mere mortals, (if we ever had any talent and what-not) if any of us had written a song like Let It Be, we would probably think 'Fuck me, that was a good day. I think I'll watch countdown and eat some hob nobs while web surfing'.
McCartney went and wrote the Long & Winding Road afterwards. Another song of sheer perfection (despite Spector's ham-fisted sabotage job).

Music must have poured out of Lennon & McCartney during the 60's. Their work ethic was incredible (and this was pretty much at a time that they loathed each other).

Macca says in an interview somewhere that he just woke up one day with a melody in his head and wrote Yesterday. Then he didn't do anything with it for a while because it came so easily to him and sounded so timeless he assumed he'd just copied some other tune from his sub-conscious that he'd heard somewhere else, but couldn't remember what it was or where he heard it.

Corkboy · « **Reply #198 on:** January 12, 2009, 10:57:59 pm »

Re original query, I don't like or dislike the Beatles, they're like part of the musical Earth. Every tune of theirs (and those boys wrote great tunes) is like a nursery rhyme from your childhood, just rolls along long burned neural pathways. I've never bought a Beatles record in my life (seventies child - barely) but they got to me anyway.

My wife, on the other hand, dislikes their music with a passion. I'm not sure why.

shelovesyou · « **Reply #199 on:** January 13, 2009, 12:35:30 am »

Quote from: rk8386 on January 12, 2009, 09:06:51 pm

This thread has made me dig out my Ian McDonald book and I came across a fact that i find mind-boggling.

Macca wrote Let It Be and The Long & Winding Road on the same day.

Now, us mere mortals, (if we ever had any talent and what-not) if any of us had written a song like Let It Be, we would probably think 'Fuck me, that was a good day. I think I'll watch countdown and eat some hob nobs while web surfing'.
McCartney went and wrote the Long & Winding Road afterwards. Another song of sheer perfection (despite Spector's ham-fisted sabotage job).

Music must have poured out of Lennon & McCartney during the 60's. Their work ethic was incredible (and this was pretty much at a time that they loathed each other).

now thats what i call a good day at the office ,
Imagine if youd written either one ..... youd just look at yerself in the mirror and say to yerself

" I am a fuckin genius "