Topic: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation

[[new username under construction]]

I do like starting arguments

[spider-neil]

Well, I hope it happens because our current fitness team have been in charge where 3 of the last 4 four seasons has seen history making levels of injuries.

[killer-heels]

Well, I hope it happens because our current fitness team have been in charge where 3 of the last 4 four seasons has seen history making levels of injuries.

Konate had injury issues before we signed him, as did Thiago. Jota also had lots of niggly spells out for Wolves and we signed Nunez despite him having suffered an ACL rupture a few years ago. Maybe we should look at players who have proven that they have a good availability record?

[Garlic Red]

So does that mean it’d be ok for Hughes to make a fuck up of our transfers this summer if it’s early on and it’s his first season at a big club? I think this summer, we need to get at least 3 or 4 transfers spot on or else we’ll be sliding even further behind city and Arsenal who will no doubt strengthen their squads as well.

It doesn’t mean it would be ok because there are no parallels to be made.

One was his first transfer window as a TD, not long after retiring as a player. He’s coming here with 7-8 years of experience under his belt in the job. The expectation here is every signing is a good one, they present good value and he gets the deal done in a good time to maximise the opportunity of a pre season and minimise the settling in period.

[rob1966]

Konate had injury issues before we signed him, as did Thiago. Jota also had lots of niggly spells out for Wolves and we signed Nunez despite him having suffered an ACL rupture a few years ago. Maybe we should look at players who have proven that they have a good availability record?

Matip was hardly ever injured in Germany.

[Peabee]

So does that mean it’d be ok for Hughes to make a fuck up of our transfers this summer if it’s early on and it’s his first season at a big club? I think this summer, we need to get at least 3 or 4 transfers spot on or else we’ll be sliding even further behind city and Arsenal who will no doubt strengthen their squads as well.

it's not just Hughes making the decisions. We have a whole team behind him. He'll be taking negotiations etc though.

[killer-heels]

Matip was hardly ever injured in Germany.

He wasnt and don't get me wrong, I would question why players like Alisson gets injured a lot for a goal keeper.

But generally the biggest predictor of future injuries is past injuries and if we are listing our most injury prone players then most fans would have Konate, Gomez, Thiago, Jota at the top of that list and low and behold, 3 of those had history of having injury issues before they joined us.

I really like Olise, but if we were to sign him and he spends a number of weeks out next season with hamstring injuries, then we only have ourselves to blame.

[SerbianScouser]

I know hardly anyone here will adhere to it but no manager should be judged in their first year.

First year he needs time to instill his culture, habits. He needs time to learn properly about the players, how they behave in different situations during the season, which players meet his requirements , which don't etc.

For me the second year - if you're a good manager - there has to be progression compared to your first season, if there's not it's a huge red flag imo. You had a whole year to build your foundations, figure out which areas you can improve with new players - there has to be clear improvement.

Obviously there's a minimum for the first year - we can't be bottom half and stuff like that - anything other than that for me it's about whether we'll see some hints and signs that indicate Arne can build on top of his first year and properly compete in his second year.

Good thing is that even if it's a transitional season considering how good our squad is we can easily achieve great things even this kind of circumstances.

[danm77]

I know hardly anyone here will adhere to it but no manager should be judged in their first year.

First year he needs time to instill his culture, habits. He needs time to learn properly about the players, how they behave in different situations during the season, which players meet his requirements , which don't etc.

For me the second year - if you're a good manager - there has to be progression compared to your first season, if there's not it's a huge red flag imo. You had a whole year to build your foundations, figure out which areas you can improve with new players - there has to be clear improvement.

Obviously there's a minimum for the first year - we can't be bottom half and stuff like that - anything other than that for me it's about whether we'll see some hints and signs that indicate Arne can build on top of his first year and properly compete in his second year.

Good thing is that even if it's a transitional season considering how good our squad is we can easily achieve great things even this kind of circumstances.

Agree. Arne is going to need some time. Even Klopp in his first year finished 8th, albeit he only joined in October and got us to two cup finals.

The only manager that we wanted out very quickly was Roy, and that's because he was never the right fit.

[Crosby Nick]

I think Klopp but would have finished well above 8th had we not reached those cup finals. We had a very hectic January and then he heavily rotated during the QF and SF Europa games.

The league does have more stronger sides now. When you see the likes of Chelsea, United and moneybags Newcastle ‘battling’ it out for about 6th-8th you see how virtually half the league would expect a top 4 challenge these days. That does make it tricky for someone coming, especially if they get off to a slow start.

[mattD]

Wasn't he, though. He might be the best player of the Klopp era for me. He was as good defensively as he was attacking. Remarkably well-rounded player. He did everything well!

I'd agree, his defensive work was incredible. The most complete player I've seen at Liverpool for a long long time. Diaz, Nunez and Gakpo are nowhere near that, I wonder how much that impacts our defensive record.

[Peabee]

I think Klopp but would have finished well above 8th had we not reached those cup finals. We had a very hectic January and then he heavily rotated during the QF and SF Europa games.

The league does have more stronger sides now. When you see the likes of Chelsea, United and moneybags Newcastle ‘battling’ it out for about 6th-8th you see how virtually half the league would expect a top 4 challenge these days. That does make it tricky for someone coming, especially if they get off to a slow start.

And with City camped out at the top, there's really only 3 places spare in the top 4. On current form, you could argue 2 spaces with Arsenal likely to be up there again next season.

[killer-heels]

Agree. Arne is going to need some time. Even Klopp in his first year finished 8th, albeit he only joined in October and got us to two cup finals.

The only manager that we wanted out very quickly was Roy, and that's because he was never the right fit.

Klopp’s first season cannot be used as a barometer for Slot’s first season. Firstly he had to practically overhaul a side and a club. In his first full season we were challenging up to Christmas and finished 4th.

If Slot comes in and finishes below 4th then, short of winning the CL, its a failure.

[killer-heels]

I know hardly anyone here will adhere to it but no manager should be judged in their first year.

First year he needs time to instill his culture, habits. He needs time to learn properly about the players, how they behave in different situations during the season, which players meet his requirements , which don't etc.

For me the second year - if you're a good manager - there has to be progression compared to your first season, if there's not it's a huge red flag imo. You had a whole year to build your foundations, figure out which areas you can improve with new players - there has to be clear improvement.

Obviously there's a minimum for the first year - we can't be bottom half and stuff like that - anything other than that for me it's about whether we'll see some hints and signs that indicate Arne can build on top of his first year and properly compete in his second year.

Good thing is that even if it's a transitional season considering how good our squad is we can easily achieve great things even this kind of circumstances.

What position though? How can we have a good squad if we finish outside the CL?

What signs are we looking for? All the media briefings have been about him being chosen because his style suits our players. Why do players need a season long bedding in period? Even Fat Ange has got Spurs doing better than last season,

[John C]

For those questioning what Tepid means by "be patient", I think it's axiomatic.
Not only does Slot need to assess his squad, bed-in his own new players, get a feel for the variances in the tempo of the PL, but we can't expect him to win his first 4 games. And if he does win his first 4 games don't expect him to win the next 4.

Be patient

[SerbianScouser]

If Slot comes in and finishes below 4th then, short of winning the CL, its a failure.

Just look at Klopp's and Pep's first seasons.

It was nowhere near the level they achieved in the following seasons. Looking at points and positions specifically is short-sighted. They need time to reach the peak of their work - it's about improving and being better the season before. Do that and the success will take care of it self. Don't do that and we'll have to find someone else.

[Son of Spion]

I’m the opposite, we’ve needed a reset for some time, defence can’t stop conceding, too many injuries, front line going through spells of fluffing their lines far too regularly.

We were a team built around Klopps energy and that has clearly waned, so a new direction is what everyone needs as sad as that is.

I'm with you there. The light that burns twice as bright, burns half as long. Jürgen is burnt out and we've gone stale. It's natural progression. When Klopp came in he was a fresh broom. He swept away the cobwebs, opened the curtains and created something new. He reset the club. His journey is now complete and a new broom with fresh impetus is required.

I'm quite excited to see where our new direction takes us. We really don't know what to expect, and neither do our opponents. It could be a lot of fun finding out.

[danm77]

Good conversation here about Slot with European Football Expert Andy Brassell:

https://youtu.be/ldXxE65vlr0?si=ZcKNfoYKor3hqHUJ

[duvva 💅]

For those questioning what Tepid means by "be patient", I think it's axiomatic.
Not only does Slot need to assess his squad, bed-in his own new players, get a feel for the variances in the tempo of the PL, but we can't expect him to win his first 4 games. And if he does win his first 4 games don't expect him to win the next 4.

Be patient

And try not to consider him a transition manager and start planning for his failure

[B0151?]

I have left football alone for the past week, I'm sure there's been some good analysis here that I will catch up on eventually. (I'm being kind, probably more shite than anything considering the current mood)

For all the talk of him being like Klopp, I notice from quotes of him he seems to be more a Pep disciple. Although of course I'm sure he has his own ideas too. But perhaps considering the success of Arteta and obviously continued success of Pep, the appointment makes sense...  i know people like to moan about those 2, but at the same time, Rafa was a hero here and was a defensive manager. I

Also it's good to read that his personality is being promoted as a big factor as that is definitely a key part of being successful at a top club, perhaps some of the rival contenders were lacking in that assessment. If he's a good bloke, plays progressive footy and we can get off to a good start, fans and players will fully be behind him, I don't doubt that.

[Avens]

Just look at Klopp's and Pep's first seasons.

It was nowhere near the level they achieved in the following seasons. Looking at points and positions specifically is short-sighted. They need time to reach the peak of their work - it's about improving and being better the season before. Do that and the success will take care of it self. Don't do that and we'll have to find someone else.

Agree with this. Top 4 sounds like the minimum aim on paper, but it's really not that simple. I know it sounds vague, but we need to remember that progress isn't linear and sometimes it's not based on specific markers. I just want to see us building something new next season, whatever that means.

[Suareznumber7]

I know hardly anyone here will adhere to it but no manager should be judged in their first year.

Of course they should.   Edwards and co. will have clear expectations for year #1 and the new manager will be judged by those expectations. 

[killer-heels]

Just look at Klopp's and Pep's first seasons.

It was nowhere near the level they achieved in the following seasons. Looking at points and positions specifically is short-sighted. They need time to reach the peak of their work - it's about improving and being better the season before. Do that and the success will take care of it self. Don't do that and we'll have to find someone else.

Guardiola and Klopp had to turnover a lot of their squads. Does Slot need to do that.

It has to be top four minimum.  He has to be judged from season 1.

[B0151?]

Guardiola and Klopp had to turnover a lot of their squads. Does Slot need to do that.

It has to be top four minimum.

I think it's more if you start putting targets on him soon as he gets in the door, if we get off to a rough start people will be wanting him out already and ignore any context.

I think everyone, him included, knows the squad should be good enough for top 4. One thing is though, as much as i think our squad is solid base, he needs to be backed in the summer so that he can't be derailed by any injury crisis that we've been prone to last few years.

[Barefoot Doctor]

Really good article in the Athletic from Adam Crafton, who spend a day meeting Slot and others at Feyenoord last summer. Tons of insight into Slot's managerial approach, how he works with the recruitment team etc.

Interestingly, says he tried and failed to bring a former assistant - Marino Pusic - with him to Anfield. That's because he joined Shakhtar as head coach in October and wants to stay there.

https://theathletic.com/5453208/2024/04/29/arne-slot-liverpool-feyenoord-head-coach/

[crewlove]

Assuming we all agree we are being left in a good position, Top 4 should be a minimum. We all wanted Top 4 before Klopp came and personally it would be weird not to expect it now.

If he won't be backed during the summer and/or we will lose some key players, then we are taking a step back and expectations could be lowered. But still, I think Top 4 should be non-negotiable.

I understand his appointment is also understood to be in some ways a continuity on what we have, therefore Klopp's arrival and this situation are not really comparable.

[SerbianScouser]

Assuming we all agree we are being left in a good position, Top 4 should be a minimum. We all wanted Top 4 before Klopp came and personally it would be weird not to expect it now.

So if he's 5th for example you sack him?

[disgraced cake]

My expectations for next season are the same as they were coming into this one, comfortably top 3 and silverware elsewhere. We've achieved that even though I'd have preferred to win in Europe over the League Cup.

That might be a difficult ask for some managers but it shouldn't be treated as such, we can't erode standards. I think there's things about a new manager that can make us better even if he's obviously not Klopp's level. What could help us achieve that too is a good Summer transfer window, add some top quality players in who are ready to contribute, say on the level that Mac Allister has this season.

City are obviously there, Arsenal look like they'll probably stay up there the next couple of years if not winning anything, and we're still a very good team who haven't shown exactly what we're all about this season, we only really threatened to. The rest is pure mediocrity at best, you've got Villa who are a good outfit but more than likely can't keep it up next season, United/Spurs/Chelsea all dross, Newcastle about a billion quid off it if not more.

It won't be a seamless transition and I am a bit concerned about the future but if this side finishes below 3rd next season then I'd be a bit more worried.

[rob1966]

I know hardly anyone here will adhere to it but no manager should be judged in their first year.

First year he needs time to instill his culture, habits. He needs time to learn properly about the players, how they behave in different situations during the season, which players meet his requirements , which don't etc.

For me the second year - if you're a good manager - there has to be progression compared to your first season, if there's not it's a huge red flag imo. You had a whole year to build your foundations, figure out which areas you can improve with new players - there has to be clear improvement.

Obviously there's a minimum for the first year - we can't be bottom half and stuff like that - anything other than that for me it's about whether we'll see some hints and signs that indicate Arne can build on top of his first year and properly compete in his second year.

Good thing is that even if it's a transitional season considering how good our squad is we can easily achieve great things even this kind of circumstances.

Deffo, he's got to learn the players and impose his own style on the team, work out what works and what doesn't. I think we can all see a focus on defending, the forwards must be sick to death of knowing they need to score at least two every game, as the defence WILL let one in, usually before half time.

His targets, as set by the club will be CL qualification as a minimum and a trophy if we can. League Cup or FA Cup could actually be a trophy he wins, although fuck it, lets try to mimic Rafa's first season trophy win

[killer-heels]

So if he's 5th for example you sack him?

No, but lets be honest, he will be 6 months off being under serious pressure. Thats the job.

[Felch Aid]

Top 4 maintained.

Some of the older guard might not stick around or adapt to someone new.

Slot seems ambitious and unfazed which is encouraging.

We will be in significant transition due to the above and to coin the usual phrase he'll need a few transfer windows to mould his team.

[Sheer Magnetism]

It's going to be a transition year, we all know that. He deserves a season at least, especially as he apparently won't be getting a huge amount of help in the transfer market. I don't think a title challenge is going to be realistic.

But on the other hand, you have to judge by your eyes. The win-draw-loss records of Rodgers and Klopp in their first six months weren't amazing but you could see what the team were moving towards and what they could become. With Moyes, you knew three months in it was a disaster, same as Hodgson here. I think a lot of it is realistically going to be vibes, body language and how things actually look on the pitch.

[SerbianScouser]

No, but lets be honest, he will be 6 months off being under serious pressure. Thats the job.

That's fair enough so you're not really expecting Top 4 then.

May I remind everyone we are spending next to peanuts for years now...expecting Top 4 is batshit crazy.

Our only chance is finding a massive overachiever and if Slot is that guy likelihood is he's gonna need some time.

[rafathegaffa83]

Really good article in the Athletic from Adam Crafton, who spend a day meeting Slot and others at Feyenoord last summer. Tons of insight into Slot's managerial approach, how he works with the recruitment team etc.

Interestingly, says he tried and failed to bring a former assistant - Marino Pusic - with him to Anfield. That's because he joined Shakhtar as head coach in October and wants to stay there.

https://theathletic.com/5453208/2024/04/29/arne-slot-liverpool-feyenoord-head-coach/

Incredibly in-depth piece that shows why he was so high up  in Edwards and Hughes' thinking. A lot of parallels with how we already operate. I'd like to think the buy-in for his approach is a lot easier at an elite PL club rather than teams like Leeds and Crystal Palace that he turned down

[Avens]

No, but lets be honest, he will be 6 months off being under serious pressure. Thats the job.

That's fair, but it's a bit different to saying top 4 is the minimum. Having such dichotomous measures of success is just unnecessary and removes the opportunity for nuance or intangibles. If he comes in, seems to get the club, starts building the team in his image, and gets us making progress, that's enough really. Hopefully that also results in something like a top 3 or 4 finish, but that's a secondary measure in the first season really.

[rob1966]

That's fair enough so you're not really expecting Top 4 then.

May I remind everyone we are spending next to peanuts for years now...expecting Top 4 is batshit crazy.

Our only chance is finding a massive overachiever and if Slot is that guy likelihood is he's gonna need some time.

Load of bollocks, this squad is well capable of top 4

[DelTrotter]

May I remind everyone we are spending next to peanuts for years now...expecting Top 4 is batshit crazy.

Rubbish, look at the quality in the squad and hopefully a bit more is added, there's no way we should then be expecting to fall behind Villa, Utd, Chelsea or whatever shit teams you're thinking about.

[Sheer Magnetism]

That's fair enough so you're not really expecting Top 4 then.

May I remind everyone we are spending next to peanuts for years now...expecting Top 4 is batshit crazy.

Our only chance is finding a massive overachiever and if Slot is that guy likelihood is he's gonna need some time.

I don't think it's batshit crazy. Which two teams below us would you automatically expect to finish above us? Spurs have a worse squad than us, Chelsea are in disarray, Villa are going to have a CL campaign to deal with, Newcastle need to sell to meet FFP regulations and Man United may well have their own new manager.

[SerbianScouser]

Load of bollocks, this squad is well capable of top 4

Bollocks?

Our net spend last decade is on the level of fucking championship teams.

The only reason we were expecting Top 4 last decade because we had the biggest massive overachiever this game has ever seen.

To expect Top 4 with the money we spend reeks of arrogance and of complete lack of awareness.

If Slot is not a massive overachiever we're in trouble.

[crewlove]

So if he's 5th for example you sack him?

I am not sacking anybody at this very moment. I think we are about to give him a player base good enough to compete and I hope it improves with backing during the summer. Our styles are understood to be somehow similar, so there is continuity involved. City and Arsenal will be up there, but the rest of competitors don't look specially inspiring and we should be able to finish higher than them.

I don't expect more than Top 4, but I could understand if you'd expect more. Sacking anybody for finishing 5th alone would be stupid, but I agree he would probably be few months off being under the pressure.

Of course, we also need to look whether there is progress, defence is improved or it looks better attacking-wise, but for sure if these things are there we won't be outside of Top 4.