Author Topic: Unpopular Opinions  (Read 135375 times)

Online Crosby Nick

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #3200 on: February 28, 2024, 03:45:05 pm »
Being on trial is terrifying enough (I imagine) but you lot will now make me feel even worse if I’m ever up on a charge for anything!

Always quite liked the thought of doing jury duty in terms of a bit of time off work and the possibility of an interesting case but the reality sounds like a lot more hassle than it’s worth!

Offline bradders1011

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #3201 on: February 28, 2024, 03:58:54 pm »
I dread it. Imagine getting one that goes on for months and you can't do anything.
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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #3202 on: February 28, 2024, 04:00:03 pm »
Being on trial is terrifying enough (I imagine) but you lot will now make me feel even worse if I’m ever up on a charge for anything!

Always quite liked the thought of doing jury duty in terms of a bit of time off work and the possibility of an interesting case but the reality sounds like a lot more hassle than it’s worth!

The trial I sat through I had no part in, but could've been called as a witness so was there for the duration.

The accuser gave their testimony over the first day and a half, then they had 3 witnesses called to the stand then a 4th witness gave a written testimony as they couldn't attend on health grounds.
The first 3 witnesses all contradicted the accuser's account of what they alleged to have happened, this despite their account of it coming directly from the mouth of the accuser. The 4th witness actually backed the account of the accused.
The accused had 5 witnesses, all giving a consistent account.
There was no actual evidence of anything, so completely someone's word against another. It was a crown case so the onus was on the accuser to prove beyond a reasonable doubt.
Absolutely no idea how the jury reached their verdict.

So aye, jury trials are a sham based on my experience of 1 case  :D
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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #3203 on: February 28, 2024, 05:18:52 pm »
was in a similar situation with the second one I was on, I was firm on not guilty because I didn't believe they'd provided sufficient proof and that's the test. It's not whether I could believe it's possible, it's without doubt and I couldn't so I wouldn't move - it's someone's life you're talking about. The rest of the jury bullied an old man into changing his mind because they wanted it to be over and the judge accepted the 11-1.

if that had happened on my second go when I was 10 years older, I'd have reported the lot of them and got it re-tried.


Done JS twice. The first time destroyed my faith in the jury system - like others because of the prejudices (negative and positive) of people, which stops them reaching a verdict based just on the facts of that particular case.

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Offline tubby

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #3204 on: February 28, 2024, 06:01:30 pm »
All evidence should be admissible, regardless of how it was obtained, even if was illegally.
Sit down, shock is better taken with bent knees.

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #3205 on: February 28, 2024, 06:28:08 pm »
All evidence should be admissible, regardless of how it was obtained, even if was illegally.

Sheikh Mansour doesn’t like this.

Offline Mumm-Ra

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #3206 on: February 29, 2024, 05:00:39 pm »
All evidence should be admissible, regardless of how it was obtained, even if was illegally.

Then you're in a world where police are kicking in doors with no warrants whenever they want

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #3207 on: February 29, 2024, 05:03:13 pm »
Sheikh Mansour doesn’t like this.
Adolf Hitler would have.

Offline tubby

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #3208 on: February 29, 2024, 05:07:36 pm »
Then you're in a world where police are kicking in doors with no warrants whenever they want

They'd still need a warrant?  I'm talking about in court.  If the evidence is obtained illegally, it should be admissible, but there should also be separate punishments for the illegal activity that obtained it in the first place.
Sit down, shock is better taken with bent knees.

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #3209 on: February 29, 2024, 05:29:45 pm »
I’m assuming Tubby is saying that for example say I had murdered someone and videoed it on my phone (I haven’t). And my phone was stolen/hacked, that evidence could still be used against me. Don’t even know if that’s different to how things are now.

Do I have that correct Tubothy?

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #3210 on: February 29, 2024, 05:31:03 pm »
I’m assuming Tubby is saying that for example say I had murdered someone and videoed it on my phone (I haven’t).

 ;)
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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #3211 on: February 29, 2024, 05:33:36 pm »
Always quite liked the thought of doing jury duty in terms of a bit of time off work and the possibility of an interesting case but the reality sounds like a lot more hassle than it’s worth!

It's quite tedious. You wait around in the pool to see if you'll even get selected, and then you're constantly sent in and out of the courtroom as points of law are discussed. One time we came back from lunch, sat around in the waiting area for an hour, went up to the courtroom only to be dismissed for the day. Ours went on like that for 6 or 7 days, weeks and weeks would be a right pain (notwithstanding a case like that being full of upsetting material, I consider myself lucky ours was just drug deals).

I was the foreman so had to stand up and send two of the accused down, which was quite stressful as I'm not usually one for attention (in real life). Obviously I stared directly at the clerk & the judge whilst reading the verdict and made no attempt to look over at the defendants as we left.
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Offline tubby

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #3212 on: February 29, 2024, 05:48:20 pm »
I’m assuming Tubby is saying that for example say I had murdered someone and videoed it on my phone (I haven’t). And my phone was stolen/hacked, that evidence could still be used against me. Don’t even know if that’s different to how things are now.

Do I have that correct Tubothy?

Correct, Nicholas.
Sit down, shock is better taken with bent knees.

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #3213 on: February 29, 2024, 05:49:15 pm »

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #3214 on: February 29, 2024, 06:26:02 pm »
I’m assuming Tubby is saying that for example say I had murdered someone and videoed it on my phone (I haven’t). And my phone was stolen/hacked, that evidence could still be used against me. Don’t even know if that’s different to how things are now.

Do I have that correct Tubothy?
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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #3215 on: February 29, 2024, 07:51:49 pm »
The programme is on CH4, its called The Jury:Murder Trial. As I said its actors playing the roles, but members of the public are split into two juries and are treating it like a real trial. Its based on a real court case where a fella is accused of killing his wife with a hammer. He (the actor) has shed a tear as he describes his wife calling him names including fat and one of the "jurors", who has weight issues said "she was asking for it". Its scary as they make assumptions based on how they think or what they have experienced or what they think the victim and accused were feeling.

Its fucking scary.
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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #3216 on: March 1, 2024, 08:14:46 am »
I’m assuming Tubby is saying that for example say I had murdered someone and videoed it on my phone (I haven’t).

So you have murdered someone but you didn't video it on your phone?
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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #3217 on: March 1, 2024, 08:19:08 am »
The programme is on CH4, its called The Jury:Murder Trial. As I said its actors playing the roles, but members of the public are split into two juries and are treating it like a real trial. Its based on a real court case where a fella is accused of killing his wife with a hammer. He (the actor) has shed a tear as he describes his wife calling him names including fat and one of the "jurors", who has weight issues said "she was asking for it". Its scary as they make assumptions based on how they think or what they have experienced or what they think the victim and accused were feeling.

Its fucking scary.

Only seen the first couple of episodes and I completely get you points, but my overriding thought when watching is that a lot of these jurors would get nowhere near a case like this in real life. Like one of the women has been a victim herself of domestic abuse so there's zero chance she would be selected for such a trial.

But you're spot on that people make assumptions and quickly choose a side based on things unrelated to the actual evidence. Once those assumptions are made, everything presented can just be aligned or flipped to suit the narrative you've created.
And if the rain stops, and everything's dry.. she would cry, just so I could drink tears from her eyes.

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #3218 on: March 1, 2024, 09:49:26 am »
Only seen the first couple of episodes and I completely get you points, but my overriding thought when watching is that a lot of these jurors would get nowhere near a case like this in real life. Like one of the women has been a victim herself of domestic abuse so there's zero chance she would be selected for such a trial.

But you're spot on that people make assumptions and quickly choose a side based on things unrelated to the actual evidence. Once those assumptions are made, everything presented can just be aligned or flipped to suit the narrative you've created.


I don't remember anything like that sort of vetting. You have to declare if you know any parties involved in the case, but not if you've been a victim of a similar crime or anything.

Agree fully with your last para.

One of the cases I did was a woman had dipped a rag in some liquid polish, lit it, and shoved it through the letterbox of a woman's house that her husband had left her for. In the house were her husband, his new girlfriend, and her two kids. The burning rag luckily didn't burn the house down; just scorched the laminate floor a bit. Prosecution laid out their case, presented evidence (like fingerprints and CCTV from down the road that showed the defendant there at the time) and called some police to give their testimony. The woman had done other things to harass the woman and her estranged husband. It was clear that evidence pointed to woman definitely committing this act. Seemed open and shut to me.

First jury break after initial opening of the case and almost all were thinking 'guilty' - but I was flabbergasted that a couple (I remember both were women) were saying 'I don't think she's guilty' (I assumed they would come round during more discussion if we focused on the facts)

Then came the defence case and witnesses. The husband came across as an unfeeling arsehole. The defendant came across as proper downtrodden and broken. An expert in flammable materials said the polish wasn't flammable (my take was that the woman wasn't necessarily to know that so it didn't make a difference to me)

I sympathised with her, but her actions could have killed four people, including two kids. And that was what this case was about.

Next break, the 'not guilties' had risen to 3 or 4. I was trying to keep the focus on dispassionately looking at the facts of the case, but the line from the 'not guilties' was that this poor, wronged woman had just cracked but not been serious about burning the house down - because after all the polish wasn't flammable.

Over the next few hours of back and forth, I saw the 'guilties' switch one by one until it was 9-3 'not guilty'. We were called into court and the foreman advised we'd not reached a verdict. The judge said he'd accept an 11-1 majority. Back we went to our room. One of the 'guilties' flipped straight away (saying something like 'the not guilties aren't going to change their mind so I might as well say not guilty', which pissed me off. That left me and another guy sticking it out. By that point, nobody was trying to convince anyone of the other side and we just sat round chatting. Get's to mid-afternoon and we're called back in. I presumed the judge would now consider a retrial. Nope, he sent us out again and said if we didn't reach a sufficient majority within the next hour we'd be discharged for the day and have to return tomorrow.

We get back to our room, the other remaining 'guilty' lad says he's bored and can't be bothered coming back tomorrow on this case yet again and flips.

The woman was found not guilty on an 11-1 count. I thought it a travesty.

« Last Edit: March 1, 2024, 09:54:12 am by Nobby Reserve »
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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #3219 on: March 1, 2024, 09:59:06 am »
I dread it. Imagine getting one that goes on for months and you can't do anything.

if there's a chance of selection for a case that'll extend beyond the 10 days you have to fill in a form that will gauge your suitability and you are told about potential length of the trial. When I did it first time, there was a case starting that they said would run for 3 months, never been so nervous filling in a form ;D As it turned out, I was there for 11 days and the 3 month trial ended in 6 days because they all changed their pleas and that lot all got sent home early!

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #3220 on: March 1, 2024, 10:34:43 am »
So you have murdered someone but you didn't video it on your phone?

I’ve said too much.

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #3221 on: March 1, 2024, 10:35:31 am »
Jurgen YNWA

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #3222 on: March 1, 2024, 10:37:04 am »
I set it up
you're admitting to being an accomplice?

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #3223 on: March 1, 2024, 10:39:05 am »
you're admitting to being an accomplice?


Nah, just losing my religion
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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #3224 on: March 1, 2024, 12:08:09 pm »
if there's a chance of selection for a case that'll extend beyond the 10 days you have to fill in a form that will gauge your suitability and you are told about potential length of the trial. When I did it first time, there was a case starting that they said would run for 3 months, never been so nervous filling in a form ;D As it turned out, I was there for 11 days and the 3 month trial ended in 6 days because they all changed their pleas and that lot all got sent home early!


My second stint had one. On my first day, about 40 of us were led into a courtroom that wasn't being used, told to find anywhere to sit, and left there for about an hour. Two court workers then came in and did ask more specific questions to everyone. They explained that there was a major trial starting involving organised crime that was expected to last 12-16 weeks. If that would be a problem for anyone, they'd be allowed to make a case to the judge - but it had to be a good reason. We were then led into a packed courtroom. One by one, those who wanted to get out of that trial had to walk up and stand before the judge, who would listen to our reasons. About half the 40 or so did, including me. Then we were all escorted back to the empty courtroom. Waited a bit. Then in comes an usher to read out 12 names with I think a couple of 'reserves'.

Thankfully I wasn't picked - because I think they had enough to choose from.

Someone I'd been chatting to earlier was picked and, in the second week, I bumped into them in the Jury common area and was chatting again. They told me it was a nightmare - and that every morning they were collected from their home, taken to a random location where they'd be transferred to a minibus or cars, then brought into the court through the secure entrance. Had to repeat a variation when leaving, too.
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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #3225 on: March 1, 2024, 01:25:38 pm »
I set it up

while walking through the park in your white trabs?

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #3226 on: March 1, 2024, 09:41:45 pm »
Sue Barker.  Good riddance from our screens.

Never has there been a more personality free, bland, insipid shower of beige than her.
« Last Edit: March 1, 2024, 10:03:55 pm by TepidT2O »
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Offline BarryCrocker

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #3227 on: March 1, 2024, 09:56:15 pm »
Bring back the 1990's.
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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #3228 on: March 2, 2024, 04:07:23 am »
I suddenly see George Galloway in a different light and I like him after giving this response to someone asking if he is a racist

I would have put this in the news and current affairs forum, but Im still banned from posting in there.



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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #3229 on: March 2, 2024, 12:36:41 pm »
Bring back the 1990's.
Bring back the 1970's

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #3230 on: March 2, 2024, 12:40:46 pm »
I'm fairly sure I've mentioned it in this thread before but if not ... leaked team selections. Don't really see the big fuss one way or the other. Better it doesn't get leaked like, but when it does I've never really minded. Maybe I'm just impatient and can't be arsed waiting until the hour before kick off  ;D
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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #3231 on: March 2, 2024, 10:13:15 pm »
I'm fairly sure I've mentioned it in this thread before but if not ... leaked team selections. Don't really see the big fuss one way or the other. Better it doesn't get leaked like, but when it does I've never really minded. Maybe I'm just impatient and can't be arsed waiting until the hour before kick off  ;D

It's not a big deal at all and I think people need to wind their neck in about it.
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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #3232 on: March 3, 2024, 05:11:20 pm »
Don't like the crazy amounts of added time nowadays. I know we took advantage, but the game against Forest was 100 minutes of playing time, that's about 10% more than what used to be playing time. Or, with out current schedule of two matches per week, about an extra game per month. It's too much. Go back to 2-3 minutes of injury time, unless something really lengthy happened.
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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #3233 on: March 3, 2024, 06:40:42 pm »
Don't like the crazy amounts of added time nowadays. I know we took advantage, but the game against Forest was 100 minutes of playing time, that's about 10% more than what used to be playing time. Or, with out current schedule of two matches per week, about an extra game per month. It's too much. Go back to 2-3 minutes of injury time, unless something really lengthy happened.

Missus asked me before what time we'll be home from the match next Sunday, deciding whether to get the Mothers day Chinese tonight or next week. I reckon, with the 3:45 kick off, gane should be done by 5:45. Easily see 15 mins of added time across the 90 mins, which is ridiculous

All the refs had to do was enforce the existing laws, book keepers for time wasting in the first ten minutes and it stop and we'd have no need for it. Sky's pet ref said on comms, when asked about the 6 second rule being done away with that it still applies, but they just don't bother enforcing it
« Last Edit: March 3, 2024, 06:49:37 pm by rob1966 »
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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #3234 on: March 4, 2024, 06:23:05 am »
it's getting silly now - even games with no injuries, the board goes up and everyone is saying "what? where TF did that come from?"

pretty soon a standard game won't fit into a 2-hour tv timeslot.  as soon as that starts to happen a few times, they'll stop adding so much extra time on.

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #3235 on: March 4, 2024, 06:46:12 am »
Don't like the crazy amounts of added time nowadays. I know we took advantage, but the game against Forest was 100 minutes of playing time, that's about 10% more than what used to be playing time. Or, with out current schedule of two matches per week, about an extra game per month. It's too much. Go back to 2-3 minutes of injury time, unless something really lengthy happened.

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #3236 on: March 4, 2024, 01:42:34 pm »
Watching Stevenage must be torture.
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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #3237 on: March 4, 2024, 01:47:59 pm »
Watching Stevenage must be torture.

Especially for Steven's poor little kids.

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #3238 on: March 4, 2024, 01:53:14 pm »
Don't like the crazy amounts of added time nowadays. I know we took advantage, but the game against Forest was 100 minutes of playing time, that's about 10% more than what used to be playing time. Or, with out current schedule of two matches per week, about an extra game per month. It's too much. Go back to 2-3 minutes of injury time, unless something really lengthy happened.

That could be easily resolved if they stopped the refs controlling the clock, & have an official timekeeper like they do in Rugby, so everyone can in the stadium & watching on TV see when the clock stops & howe long is left.

Incidentally didn't Forest have a couple of players booked in stoppage time for time wasting, one of the reasons the ref added more time on at the end of added time, & added time is always minimum [not maximum] added time.

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #3239 on: March 4, 2024, 02:21:57 pm »
Don't like the crazy amounts of added time nowadays. I know we took advantage, but the game against Forest was 100 minutes of playing time, that's about 10% more than what used to be playing time. Or, with out current schedule of two matches per week, about an extra game per month. It's too much. Go back to 2-3 minutes of injury time, unless something really lengthy happened.

It's a bit shit, but the players are mostly to blame. Especially players from clubs like Arsenal, Newcastle and Man United.
All they do is fuck themselves to the floor at the earliest opportunity and scream like fuck because an opposition player shared the same postcode with them. Now we've got feigning head injuries to add into the mix too because players know the ref will stop the game instantly whether there's been contact or not. Lie on the ground and touch your head and there's a wee break for you and your defence.
Managers using tactical subs to waste time is also a factor.

So they're not actually playing for 100 minutes, they're playing for 90 like they should be. The 7 extra minutes (taking out 3 for goals and subs as was about standard) is standing about doing fuck all while a player gets on like a c*nt when there is nothing wrong with them.
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