Topic: Honest Opinions Please

[OLDIE]

I read a letter in the Echo today that slated Liverpool Fans for burning the American Flag.

Whilst I am in favour of burning the flag, I am curious to know whether or not I am the only one.

Lets not turn this into an anti American thread, just whether burning the flag whilst shit & shite are in our club is acceptable.

[BernardGarcia]

Personally burning the flag of America is not for me. They don't represent the whole of America. If burning anything then, burn them! (or maybe just pictures of them)

[electricghost]

It's not acceptable to me.  Our fight is against our two owners because of how they have treated the club not because of their nationality. Why risk insulting people who would be on our side on that side of the pond ?    It diminishes the great work that a lot of people are doing at the moment in my view.   

[incredibleL4ever]

Personally burning the flag of America is not for me. They don't represent the whole of America. If burning anything then, burn them! (or maybe just pictures of them)

Good idea, too huge effegies, outside Anfield on July 4.

[Dr. Beaker]

Surely nobody is stupid enough not to realise that the burning of the 'stars and stripes' is entirely due to the hatred of H&G and not directed at the entirety of the USA. People who complain are just sad fuckers in search of a high-horse.

[beardsley4ever]

The American flag means a lot to Americans - more than almost any other country I've been to; almost to the point of being irrational.  So personally I would never burn it in protest of dumb and dumber.

[xerxes1]

H&G are shit owners who happen to be American.

Burning the American flag alienates many potential sympathisers and allies. It also gains sympathy stateside for G&H.

It's a free country - draw your own conclusions.

[eitzel]

In a general sense you could argue most flags deserve to be burnt for one historical reason or other. In this particular case it made 'Liverpool fans' look subnormal, not the best way to appeal to the 'soft' fanbase to rise up.

[hoonin]

Surely nobody is stupid enough not to realise that the burning of the 'stars and stripes' is entirely due to the hatred of H&G and not directed at the entirety of the USA. People who complain are just sad fuckers in search of a high-horse.

I disagreed with it and quite vociferously. If that puts me on a high horse in your opinion, so be it. I can live with not having your approval.

Anyone who wants to burn US flags will do so on Jul 4th, but it's pleasing to see the Union distancing themselves from it publicly. After proper rationalisation, it's something that is a distraction, counter-productive and patently wont bring us any closer to shared goals.

[Planner]

It's not for me, like people have said this is against G&H and not against America.

The people that count (us fans) know why it is being done but there are a hell of alot more people that don't know and that can't do our cause any good (until we have educated them as to why we are doing it)........

[TheVoiceOfRiise]

burning the flag or effegies for that matter, in my opinion, is infantile and pointless.

[BobbyDavro]

It's a disgrace.  I'm all for differing opinions, and usually hate the argument that if you don't agree, you're an idiot - but on this one, thinking burning a countries flag is a good way to get people on-side and promote your cause if plain idiotic.

At best you just look like mad arses in foreign countries who smack statues with shoes and dance round singing slogans for retards.
At worst you alienate support and taint your entire agenda.
Imagine how that looks for a second.  People see things in black and white.  Do you think you look like the kind of people that other people can relate to?  Want to understand your cause?  Or like a reactionary idiots who likelly couldn't string two sentences together, and actually are there for the tear up rather than out of any obvious injustice?
Burn a flag and then expect to sit down with sponsors and put your point across so they put pressure on the club?
Burn a flag and then expect dialogue with the the board?
Burn a flag and expect the papers to side with you?
It makes me want to come down and wrap a bat round your head and I want the same thing you do. 

Burning effiges will still likely make you look stupid and mad-arsey, but at least it won't automatically alienate support.  But for my money, getting your zippo out is the last resort of the retard and will do no good.
Unless it's to keep flags scouse, in which case it's the only way.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

As a symbolic gesture it was very powerful. If a few Americans got upset, so what? I'm upset that  Americans have pretty much destroyed 118 years of history. 

Two large pictures of the Cancers burning would also be good.

[BernardGarcia]

I disagreed with it and quite vociferously. If that puts me on a high horse in your opinion, so be it. I can live with not having your approval.

Anyone who wants to burn US flags will do so on Jul 4th, but it's pleasing to see the Union distancing themselves from it publicly. After proper rationalisation, it's something that is a distraction, counter-productive and patently wont bring us any closer to shared goals.

[Dr. Beaker]

I disagreed with it and quite vociferously. If that puts me on a high horse in your opinion, so be it. I can live with not having your approval.

Anyone who wants to burn US flags will do so on Jul 4th, but it's pleasing to see the Union distancing themselves from it publicly. After proper rationalisation, it's something that is a distraction, counter-productive and patently wont bring us any closer to shared goals.

Whilst I obviously disapprove of you for disagreeing with me, I also agree with most of what you say.
All I am saying is that it will happen; it doesn't mean the perpetrators are against all things american, it's someone burning some cloth. I'd burn all flags if I had my way. People who are offended by it are as idiotic as the people who do it, in my opinion.

[Veinticinco de Mayo]

I'm slightly more equivocal than Gareth, in that I wouldn't advocate burning it but as an impromptu act born of frustration I can see why it got burnt and I don't really have a problem with that.  However I totally agree with Gareth on this bit:

it's pleasing to see the Union distancing themselves from it publicly. After proper rationalisation, it's something that is a distraction, counter-productive and patently wont bring us any closer to shared goals.

[will2003]

I dont agree with it personally but can understand why people would.

[Chakan]

I could understand the burning of the flag if it actually achieved something. But it did nothing.... zero... zip.... to further the cause. It released a bit of frustration by some people, but at the end of the day it did absolutely nothing to further the cause of H&G out of the club. In fact it had a negative affect on some people. What's the point of doing something if it's going to have a negative affect?

[StevenLFC]

I'm 100% against the flag burning. The US flag represents the USA as a country, not two of their citizens. In my opinion the flag burning fans disrespected the American public and probably pissed off a few US based reds who were behind the campaign.

There are many ways to show your anger and Hicks and Gillett without potentially pissing off millions of people in the process.

[slickman]

100% against it portrays our fans in the media as mindless thugs with a brain the size of a peanut .
Having a constuctive protest would draw far more sympathy.
All burning an amercian flag does is make us more enemies whatever idiot came up with the idea needs to take hard look at themselves.

[TheVoiceOfRiise]

DURKA DURKA!
They're all the same, they want to take over all our football clubs and ruin them, burn them all!
DURKA DURKA!

[Ken-Obi]

burning the flag is shit & shite

Personally burning the flag of America is not for me. They don't represent the whole of America. If burning anything then, burn them! (or maybe just pictures of them)

[fromthepen]

I'm against burning a country's flag because of actions of 2 individuals, I think only one of them is american, isn't GG Canadian?

In any case I think it is immature and deeply offensive to American citizens to see it. As someone from Liverpool it gets right on my tits to see all scousers stereotyped time and time again as scallies and thieves so I think it is crass and stupid for a handful of LFC fans to try and lump a whole nation because of the 2 tw.ts ruining our club.

[OneKop]

I could understand the burning of the flag if it actually achieved something. But it did nothing.... zero... zip....

What if we wrapped H&G up FIRST in said flag

[Garstonite]

I got banned for making a comment on this subject last time, so I'll choose my words carefully.

It. Is. A. Bit. Of. Cloth.

[Chakan]

What if we wrapped H&G up FIRST in said flag

That would achieve something

[R.A.La]

Surely nobody is stupid enough not to realise that the burning of the 'stars and stripes' is entirely due to the hatred of H&G and not directed at the entirety of the USA. People who complain are just sad fuckers in search of a high-horse.

This.

If we were given the choice before it happened I probably would have been against it, but too late to worry about it now. The way we have beeen treated by this gang of twats has bound to cause emotions to run high. What happened was enevitable.

Fuck it, whats done is done and the fact that it got so much attention has only served to bring attention to our struggle.

[pooley]

My honest opinion is that I would not burn a countries flag myelf, but I can understand peoples anger and why they would want to express themselves that way.Being a scouser I have no allegiance to England and certainly none to U.S.A. unlike Bobby Davro I would not ridicule people who see throwing shoes as a form of protest and certainly enjoyed seeing that jornalist lob one at George W Bush, what a pity it missed . As for dancing around and chanting moranicaly, I confess I have been guity of this many times, usually in  places like Rome,Paris and Istanbul and though it may have been moronic,we usually manage to string together a few more syllables, than the obviously superior intellectual U.S.A-U.S.A -U.S.A chants heard at the few sporting events that the U.S.A . participates in that actually includes people from outside that country.

[Dubit10]

I don't give a shite about America or Americans. If it helps put our fight in the papers then so be it.

[Chindits]

Burnin a flag killin institution Like Liverpool FC both fuckin wrong,but hey T&H dont give a fuck about one of them why should we?

[west_london_red]

As I said before, to borrow an American phrase the burning of the flag was "collatoral damage" in the struggle against the owners.

[eAyeAddio]

...........Being a scouser I have no allegiance to England..........

Tee Hee !

[The Bill Hicks Appreciation Society]

Can see why it's done but the act in itself is divisive and counter-productive to the idea of glavanising reds world wide, so personally I'd rather people didn't do it. The moral finger-wagging it sparks is hilarious to watch though.

[electricghost]

I don't give a shite about America or Americans. If it helps put our fight in the papers then so be it.

What about American papers ?

[BobbyDavro]

As I said before, to borrow an American phrase the burning of the flag was "collatoral damage" in the struggle against the owners.

And achieved what?
Made us look like stupid c*nts.

This is what fucks me off with so much of the protests and aims to get G&H out.
It's stupid, ill-thought out and often backfires....but fuck it eh, you're doing something and that's all that counts isn't it?
No you fucking retards, you're undermining things that other people are doing.

And as for it being a piece of cloth - that's your view, and that's fine.  But that's not others view.  So do you just go through life living by what you think is ok?  Do you totally ignore what's important to others because it's not for you? 
Plenty of Americans have died for their flag.  Those that do die have military funerals where a massive part of it is the ceremonial handing over of the flag to their nearest and dearest.  But fuck it eh, some scallies in Liverpool don't give a fuck about a piece of cloth and just want to get on the news....who cares if the whole thing backfires and we look like neanderthals?

More and more on many levels I've nothing in common with just about anything to do with Liverpool Football Club.  If it isn't the owners taking the club to the wall it's the fans trashing our name. 
Who gives a fuck what anyone else thinks though eh? 
Oh hang on....that's why we're doing it....to get other people's support....I've had an epiphany....we're fucking stupid.

[The Bill Hicks Appreciation Society]

Plenty of Americans have died for their flag.

To paraphrase Bill they didn't die for a flag they died for the freedom to burn the flag. You have to look at these things in context and the flag to the Liverpool fans that burnt it represented nothing more than Hicks and Gillett. It wasn't aimed at the country or the people, nor was it aimed at the government or foreign policy on this occasion.

Now I'm against the flag burning for that very reason because people take things on face value. The fact these Liverpool fans were wearing standard chartered shirts demonstrates the IQ of this particular bunch but don't try to make out that the flag burning was anything other than a representation of their dissatisfaction towards our current owners actions.

[Breitner]

They could have at least put their ugly faces on it first 

I wouldn't advocate it myself but the whole point is to provoke a strong reaction and nothing gets Americans more worked up than someone desecrating their flag. Any press over there highlighting the fans ire is good press.

[BobbyDavro]

It doesn't matter in the slightest that they were showing their dissatisfaction towards the owners.
It doesn't matter what Bill Hicks thought people died for - because that's all it is, his thoughts.  Comic genius and very perceptive man, but he doesn't know what people died for.

Americans put a lot of importance in the flag.  They get very fucked off when people burn the flag.  The country was ripped in half in the 60s during the Vietnam War, and one of the most divisive actions was students burning the US flag.
The context is the one it's viewed from - which is that people in the UK and US and all around the world see Liverpool fans burning something that represents a country because they're pissed off with 2 people from there.

We look stupid.

As it happens, I don't care for flags, I just care about us looking stupid.

[BobbyDavro]

They could have at least put their ugly faces on it first 

I wouldn't advocate it myself but the whole point is to provoke a strong reaction and nothing gets Americans more worked up than someone desecrating their flag. Any press over there highlighting the fans ire is good press.

Explain how negative publicity over there is a good thing.  I just can't see it.

[Lanrmort]

I disagree with it because it is a PR disaster.

No other reason.