Topic: Zonal Marking

[SwedenRed]

Zonal Marking or whatever it is... We are defending like average school kids, forgetting how to mark players, and lacking concentration. They have to buck their ideas up, and get DEFENDING properly as they are paid to do. There is no excuses.

[rocco]

Zonal Marking or whatever it is... We are defending like average school kids, forgetting how to mark players, and lacking concentration. They have to buck their ideas up, and get DEFENDING properly as they are paid to do. There is no excuses.

Not worried about the system , worried about how bad were using it to defend ..

[Tiz Lad]

Set-piece goals conceded:

Liverpool 10 77% of total conceded
Pompey 9 60%
Chelsea 6 75%
Arsenal 5 46%
City 4 50%
Man Utd 0 0%

Liverpool have conceded the most goals from set pieces in the prem, and have the highest % of goals from set pieces conceded


Our goals conceded this season ... were 10 from set pieces ?
Spurs 2  - Shot from a cleared corner and a free kick
Villa 3 - Pen, deflected free kick, and corner
Bolton 2 - Think one was a long free kick
West Ham 2 - pen and a corner
Hull 1  - no cross from open play headed back across goal
Chelsea 2  - no. bithe crosses from open play from dropba
Sunderland 1  - No - Unless the Beach ball counts as a set peice move

Do you use zonal marking , not debating what system is better , just wondering.

[rocco]

Sunderland 1  - No - Unless the Beach ball counts as a set peice move
Do utd use zonal marking , not debating what system is better , just wondering.

 

[LFCfan4Life]

Set-piece goals conceded:

Liverpool 10 77% of total conceded
Pompey 9 60%
Chelsea 6 75%
Arsenal 5 46%
City 4 50%
Man Utd 0 0%

Liverpool have conceded the most goals from set pieces in the prem, and have the highest % of goals from set pieces conceded


Our goals conceded this season ... were 10 from set pieces ?
Spurs 2 - we didn't defend the free kick zonally and it was scored from the cleared re bound.
Villa 3 - one was a penalty(did reina defend that zonally? and its not exactly a set piece is it even if it is a dead ball situation ist totally diff from a corner/free kick)
Bolton 2
West Ham 2 - one was a penalty
Hull 1 - open play
Chelsea 2 - both open play
Sunderland 1 - open play/offside Beach ball

Do utd use zonal marking , not debating what system is better , just wondering.

thats 7/13 thats were deffo nothing to do with zonal marking nor a set piece which only leaves 6

[SwedenRed]

Not worried about the system , worried about how bad were using it to defend ..

Exactly Rocco. FFS... I havnt seen so much shambolic defending by a top side in a long time. Once upon a time, one simple error in defence used to get analysed in deep detail... You can write a book about the mistakes already this Season.
I mentioned this the other day. No one in this team is not replaceable. This goes to Carragher too. I would like him to be given a couple of games break to give his brain a break and his arse a good kicking.

[Frank.]

As it was said on Champions League Goals last night the Keeper should decide how his defenders line up for any set piece, as he's the one whos got to pick it up out of the net if it goes in. If Reina thinks that the Zonal marking is the reason we've conceded so many then Rafa should listen to him and make a change. Obviously we don't know if anythings been said. But IMO Reina should be deciding with his goal keeping coaches the best way for the defendes to line up

[hoonin]

Set-piece goals conceded:

Liverpool 10 77% of total conceded
Pompey 9 60%
Chelsea 6 75%
Arsenal 5 46%
City 4 50%
Man Utd 0 0%

Liverpool have conceded the most goals from set pieces in the prem, and have the highest % of goals from set pieces conceded

Ah, nice one rocco. Saw that in the Sunday Times the other day but chucked the sports section away so forgot the exact numbers.

thats 7/13 thats were deffo nothing to do with zonal marking nor a set piece which only leaves 6

Several have come from 2nd or 3rd phase balls after the initial set piece, i.e. when the players have been moved out of their starting positions. Whether it's zonal marking or not we have a problem clearing the ball from set pieces.

[LFCfan4Life]

Several have come from 2nd or 3rd phase balls after the initial set piece, i.e. when the players have been moved out of their starting positions. Whether it's zonal marking or not we have a problem clearing the ball from set pieces.

agree with the spurs one was shit a clearance

but the two pens, hull, chelsea and sunderland were nothing at all to do with dodgy defending at set pieces or a bad clearance etc so in reality its max 7/13 which were from set pieces

[Corkboy]

So can anyone say if Roy uses zonal or what?

Gray on the box yesterday made a big point of the fact that on a corner against us, we went man for man. In contrast, see the following quote from this piece, as reproduced for a thread on here, about when Roy went to Sweden.

Suddenly they were playing very aggressive attacking football in a 4-4-2. They introduced zonal marking in place of man-to-man marking, and played a high line of defence.

So which is it?

[royhendo]

The Swedish reference is about zonal marking in open play I think Corkboy.

MOTD2 covered it last night - it's the standard 'two totems in the 6 yard box to attack the ball and everybody else tracks their man' type deal. No more Cahill sneak-type goals if that's true... or if there are, at least we'll be able to blame someone.

[hassinator]

So can anyone say if Roy uses zonal or what?

Gray on the box yesterday made a big point of the fact that on a corner against us, we went man for man. In contrast, see the following quote from this piece, as reproduced for a thread on here, about when Roy went to Sweden.

So which is it?

funny the telegraph said we had abandoned zonal to go to man marking.

haven't seen the game yet but will hit this up when i view.

[Corkboy]

The Swedish reference is about zonal marking in open play I think Corkboy.

MOTD2 covered it last night - it's the standard 'two totems in the 6 yard box to attack the ball and everybody else tracks their man' type deal. No more Cahill sneak-type goals if that's true... or if there are, at least we'll be able to blame someone.

Cheers, Roy, I have MOTD2 recorded, will give it a watch.

[royhendo]

Cheers, Roy, I have MOTD2 recorded, will give it a watch.

On the iplayer as of Tuesday aswell apparently. It'll be interesting to see how we do. We threatened a little from our own set pieces so fingers crossed it becomes a feature of our play.

[Eeyore]

The Swedish reference is about zonal marking in open play I think Corkboy.

MOTD2 covered it last night - it's the standard 'two totems in the 6 yard box to attack the ball and everybody else tracks their man' type deal. No more Cahill sneak-type goals if that's true... or if there are, at least we'll be able to blame someone.

Who can we blame then for losing Chamakh for their goal or was Pepe detailed to man mark him at corners.

[royhendo]

Who can we blame then for losing Chamakh for their goal or was Pepe detailed to man mark him at corners.

The party line says "Pepe is the best keeper in the world but it's 100% his fault" (and it wasn't a corner).

[McFan]

Think it was man to man with Gerrard covering the zone around the corner of the 6 yard box, player on each post, and Masch hanging back on the edge of the area keeping an eye on any runners.

Man City marked zones against Spurs and it worked on at least one occasion. Ball was headed clear, but it fell to Huddlestone whose volleyed attempt was saved by Hart.

Watching us mark man to man yesterday, it struck me how chaotic a system it is purely on a visual level, and how easy it is to lose the man you're supposed to be marking. Not knocking the system - if we're successful with it then great. Just an observation.

[Uhoh AureliOs]

We used man to man bar the 3 circled that were zonal (which motd2 conveniently highlighted as the end of zonal marking) and one on the edge of the box.



Skrtel certainly looked better man to man. But it's early days yet.

[redgriffin73]

I always understood Roy used a mixture of zonal and man-to-man marking at Fulham, so I'd have expected that to continue with us?

[John C]

I noticed once in the first half we had a man on each post for a corner but we didn't repeat it. I much prefer it, its something we didn't do under Rafa.

Indeed Ngog would have scored from a lovely header had Arsenal not employ it.

[stoa]

Watching us mark man to man yesterday, it struck me how chaotic a system it is purely on a visual level, and how easy it is to lose the man you're supposed to be marking. Not knocking the system - if we're successful with it then great. Just an observation.

That's the thing though, isn't it. Both systems have clear advantages and disadvantages. The thing is that both systems work when they're employed correctly and nobody makes any mistakes. Stupid thing is that footballers are still human and make mistakes. You'll have teams conceded goals from corners whether they're marking man to man or zonal. It's just that because Rafa was using zonal-marking people (commentators?) were talking about it as if it was the only reason why we've conceded from a corner.

It's a bit harder to see who may have made the mistake and commentators probably couldn't be bothered actually looking at what's going on. With man-marking it's pretty easy for them to pick out the one player who lost the guy he should have been marking. That's why with zonal it's the system's fault and with man-marking it's the player's fault, when in reality it's always some player's fault no matter what system you're using...

I noticed once in the first half we had a man on each post for a corner but we didn't repeat it. I much prefer it, its something we didn't do under Rafa.

Indeed Ngog would have scored from a lovely header had Arsenal not employ it.

To be fair, it worked for Arsenal yesterday, but when we conceded that goal at home against the Mancs (don't know which season it was, but we lost and I think Tevez scored) we used players on the posts and Yossi was too slow getting out and played Tevez onside. Sometimes it will work and sometimes it won't...

[Lush is the best medicine...]

I always understood Roy used a mixture of zonal and man-to-man marking at Fulham, so I'd have expected that to continue with us?

didnt we do the same under rafa i.e. a mix of the two

[scatman]

that's sky blasphemous mate, Rafa only employed zonal marking in both boxes for our attacking and defensive set pieces and don't forget the zonal marking when we kicked off.

[Eeyore]

The party line says "Pepe is the best keeper in the world but it's 100% his fault" (and it wasn't a corner).

That's the rub though, probably at that time of the game and in that position 70-80% of teams in the Premiership would of treated that position exactly as a corner.

So what do you do, mark up man to man as if it's a corner or do you mark up zonally or do you wait until the ball is in the air and then decide. If they take a short corner or throw the ball short for someone to cross surely that is no longer a corner.

The truth is when you mark man to man you also mark zonally if an attacker leaves the area and runs to the half way line you don't follow him. When you mark zonally when someone is in your zone you go man to man on him.

It's pretty obvious that all teams use a mixture of zonal and man to man depending on the situation so why can't Sky, football pundits and the great Slywashed understand this.

[Dar]

Damn Rafa and his zonal marking!

[Cid]

Would Zonal marking have helped when a player climbs over the back of our defender?  I think not.

Let's not constantly refer to zonal whenever we concede a goal please, it'll be like some kind of bizarre reversal of sky sports.

[kelevra]

If you don't attack the ball or are poor in the air/ a small team, no matter what system you use your going to get found out. End of

[lfcmaster]

man city scored the most goals from set pieces last season

wouldnt worry too much about the goal tonight

[JP-65]

Would have been offside if we hadn't marked the posts!

[McFan]

That's the thing though, isn't it. Both systems have clear advantages and disadvantages. The thing is that both systems work when they're employed correctly and nobody makes any mistakes. Stupid thing is that footballers are still human and make mistakes. You'll have teams conceded goals from corners whether they're marking man to man or zonal. It's just that because Rafa was using zonal-marking people (commentators?) were talking about it as if it was the only reason why we've conceded from a corner.

It's a bit harder to see who may have made the mistake and commentators probably couldn't be bothered actually looking at what's going on. With man-marking it's pretty easy for them to pick out the one player who lost the guy he should have been marking. That's why with zonal it's the system's fault and with man-marking it's the player's fault, when in reality it's always some player's fault no matter what system you're using...


To be fair, it worked for Arsenal yesterday, but when we conceded that goal at home against the Mancs (don't know which season it was, but we lost and I think Tevez scored) we used players on the posts and Yossi was too slow getting out and played Tevez onside. Sometimes it will work and sometimes it won't...

Agree with everything you say. Just taking some getting used to

[its cold in the stands]

man city scored the most goals from set pieces last season

wouldnt worry too much about the goal tonight

richards is good in the air but twice tonight he easily outjumped agger, agger was floundering like he did against standard liege away.
not a good sign from someone who is a natural centre back

[WorldChampions]

If you don't attack the ball or are poor in the air/ a small team, no matter what system you use your going to get found out. End of

[wideawakewesley]

Every week, Betfair Football's star tipster Andy Gray will be picking out and answering his favourite question out of those he is asked on Twitter and Facebook. Here's his answer to this week's poser...

"Andy, Liverpool have conceded two goals from corners so far this season. Maybe zonal marking under Benitez wasn't so bad?" - @Zonal_Marking

That's a good question, mate. The way I see it goals are going to come from corners from time to time, whatever method you choose to defend them.

Rafael Benitez famously preferred zonal whilst Roy Hodgson is more a fan of man-to-man but it's less about which of the two methods is better than about the players defending the corner properly.

If it's man-to-man you're going with, you need to stick with your player and do everything you can (within the laws of the game or otherwise, as long as it doesn't result in a penalty) to stop him from scoring.

Fernando Torres letting Dimitar Berbatov get a free header on Sunday was an example of a player not doing his job properly and his team paying the price, but then again some would question the wisdom of having an attacker marking an opponent who is one of the team's best headers of the ball.

You look at teams like Stoke and Bolton scoring from corners time and time again throughout the season and however much you plan during the week you can't legislate for someone out-jumping your defender or a deflection finding the back of the net. Goals will come from corners and that's just part of the game.

http://www.betfairfootball.com/premier-league/liverpool/andy-discusses-liverpools-man-marking-230910.html

The next time he bumps into Rafa, an apology is needed.

[Skuzzlebutt]

Good Video here on Zonal marking and Man Marking pointing out the Rafa way and the Hodg way.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/football/premier-league/video/regularfeatures-20681957/22051563

[ChaChaMooMoo]

Good Video here on Zonal marking and Man Marking pointing out the Rafa way and the Hodg way.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/football/premier-league/video/regularfeatures-20681957/22051563

Is there an alternate source? The video isnt available in my location.

[Skuzzlebutt]

Is there an alternate source? The video isnt available in my location.

Sorry I don't know.  It seems to be off the Fifa 11 website looking at alternate styles of defending and they specifically compare Rafa and Hodgson on Zonal and Man Marking.  Maybe you could track it down on the Fifa 11 game site.

[SMD]

I miss zonal marking.

[BazC]

I miss zonal marking.

I don't. I miss having good players who can defend though.

The 2 seasons before this one were pretty shite in  terms of defending set pieces, and this one's no different.

It's pretty obvious (and has been for ages) that we're a shit team on set pieces. It's arguably cost us a Champions League final and a semi final in the last 3 years for a couple of examples.

I wonder when we'll finally spend the £5-10m on a decent CB... most important position on the pitch to improve and has been for at least 2 years in my opinion.

[SMD]

I wonder when we'll finally spend the £5-10m

I wonder too.

[BazC]

I wonder too.

well this season it was spent on Koncheskey. Fucking Koncheskey!