Author Topic: General Running Thread  (Read 809564 times)

Offline Red_Mist

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Re: General Running Thread
« Reply #19280 on: April 27, 2024, 09:40:49 pm »
No mate, not really doing stretches at all these days.

But calf raises to strengthen, combined with a slow jog to warm up when going running sounds like a good plan, cheers 👍

Offline mattD

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Re: General Running Thread
« Reply #19281 on: May 11, 2024, 11:09:02 pm »
Good luck to anyone running Manchester today. Still yet to do a proper marathon myself and will get to it at some point in the next few years when I feel like my body has no extra speed yet to give; the sub - 3 is a runner’s holy grail and one I hope to achieve.

You seem to get good times mate, I was wondering what the benefits of speed training is to boost a 5km/10km time - e.g. interval training of 300m for example?

I'm more of a long distance guy. I got a bad injury a few years ago (ripped the plantar fascia and got achilles tendonitis on the other foot) and slowly been recovering ever since. I'm roughly around 17.20 for my 5km time at the moment, and wanting to go faster.

But the reality is I don't follow any training schedule and I don't time myself running (I don't wear watches or take my mobile when running). My ignorance with regards to training is extremely low, my main aim is to just run good distances over a week with the intention of pushing relatively hard. Something more regimented might help but I have no clue.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2024, 11:10:41 pm by mattD »

Offline Drinks Sangria

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Re: General Running Thread
« Reply #19282 on: May 12, 2024, 10:09:55 am »
You seem to get good times mate, I was wondering what the benefits of speed training is to boost a 5km/10km time - e.g. interval training of 300m for example?

I'm more of a long distance guy. I got a bad injury a few years ago (ripped the plantar fascia and got achilles tendonitis on the other foot) and slowly been recovering ever since. I'm roughly around 17.20 for my 5km time at the moment, and wanting to go faster.

But the reality is I don't follow any training schedule and I don't time myself running (I don't wear watches or take my mobile when running). My ignorance with regards to training is extremely low, my main aim is to just run good distances over a week with the intention of pushing relatively hard. Something more regimented might help but I have no clue.
Running 17:20 with no training plan or fixed mileage is quite exceptional, do you have a background in some form of competitive sport?

Something more regimented absolutely would have an effect. If you’re wanting to drive that 5km time down, I’d recommend getting a watch, blocking out a 10 - 12 week block in your calendar and starting to build a proper training block. Without being too specific - I can get more specific if needs be - I’d start with maybe 30 - 35 miles a week (more if you’re already doing more) and build towards 50 miles a week, with each week containing 6 runs.

The 6 runs would be 3 x easy, 1 x easy long, 2 x sessions. The sessions would vary; one week speed and tempo another week, multiple speed or speed and threshold work. I know that sounds a bit confusing if you’ve not done that sort of thing before but I can offer more detail if needed. I’d also build in a low mileage rest week maybe week 6 of 10, whereby you only do one decent effort run and increase the rest days.

An example week of what I’ve just done:

Monday: Rest
Tuesday: Speed Session of 6 x 800m @ race pace off 2 mins walk recovery + 4x 200m @ 3km pace
Wednesday: AM Easy 8 Miles slow, PM Easy 4 Miles Slow
Thursday: Strength Training + Easy 6 Miles
Friday: AM 4 miles easy, PM 8 Miles consisting of 2 miles easy, 4 miles tempo, 2 easy
Saturday: 6 Miles easy including 8x 20 second strides
Sunday: 12 miles consisting of 6 Easy, 4 Tempo, 2 easy

This plan helps to build speed via the dedicated speed work, but also train the body to vary speed during a race and get used to race pace under duress, with the controlled tempo efforts amongst long runs. This represents a big load and the 2nd heaviest mileage week of my 12 week plan, so don’t start off on something like this, it’s purely illustrative. This would be after over 6 weeks of build up from a strong base.

Let me know if you’ve any questions and good luck, 17:20 is quick and suggests if you’ve no real training background you could make big gains quickly; I’d argue you’re probably naturally quicker than someone like me who relies on high volume and loses speed quickly if I don’t basically reinitiate a training block after a short break following a big race. Speed training and variation is so important, I was stuck at around 18:00 for a 5km for two years despite decent mileage because I didn’t vary my training enough or understand that you have to go through very specific cycles with the intention of peaking for a certain event; I just maintained my fitness and ever got better over 5km or 10km. When I finally got a coach, sat down and planned what my goal races were and we introduced targeted training, I’ve never looked back. Over 2 minutes off my 5km and 4 minutes off my 10km in the last two years.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2024, 10:14:46 am by Drinks Sangria »
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Offline paulrazor

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Re: General Running Thread
« Reply #19283 on: May 13, 2024, 04:36:44 pm »
Ploughed my way through 2 bottles of wine last night

Today, raining, threw on an extra layer, mapped out 13k or so

ended up doing 16. Flying along.  1 hour 38 mins 46 seconds. I did that route a few years back and today was about 5 minutes faster.

Recently ran 8k leg of belfast marathon in 42.19

Working with a PT so its making a huge difference
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Re: General Running Thread
« Reply #19284 on: May 13, 2024, 08:49:51 pm »
Nice one Paul. Every run is a struggle for me at the moment. Went up to 5 miles at the weekend but had to walk bits every mile or so. Fitness levels feel rock bottom.

Offline paulrazor

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Re: General Running Thread
« Reply #19285 on: May 13, 2024, 10:07:43 pm »
Just work it back slowly.
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Offline Drinks Sangria

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Re: General Running Thread
« Reply #19286 on: May 14, 2024, 08:40:31 am »
Good effort that Paul. I’m thinking white wine as red would’ve made my head fall off in that quantity  ;D

Paul’s right Nick, build up slowly, don’t get too pissed off with yourself. Running is possibly the worst sport for thinking ‘I used to be better than this’ and it’s certainly the sport where you I can lose fitness and sharpness the quickest. Slow build, easy paced running then maybe chuck something quicker in once a week when the distances are feeling easier.

Taper week for me as I have a 5km this Friday, at Christleton which is meant to be one of the fastest courses in the North West. Hoping I can knock over a minute off my long-standing 5km PB. I know I should PB, purely off of knowing I can tempo quicker than my previous best and I just never really do 5kms. After this Friday, a rest week then straight into a 12 week training block designed to have me sharp and at my best for when the track season gets rolling.
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Offline mattD

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Re: General Running Thread
« Reply #19287 on: May 24, 2024, 09:23:47 pm »
Running 17:20 with no training plan or fixed mileage is quite exceptional, do you have a background in some form of competitive sport?

Something more regimented absolutely would have an effect. If you’re wanting to drive that 5km time down, I’d recommend getting a watch, blocking out a 10 - 12 week block in your calendar and starting to build a proper training block. Without being too specific - I can get more specific if needs be - I’d start with maybe 30 - 35 miles a week (more if you’re already doing more) and build towards 50 miles a week, with each week containing 6 runs.

The 6 runs would be 3 x easy, 1 x easy long, 2 x sessions. The sessions would vary; one week speed and tempo another week, multiple speed or speed and threshold work. I know that sounds a bit confusing if you’ve not done that sort of thing before but I can offer more detail if needed. I’d also build in a low mileage rest week maybe week 6 of 10, whereby you only do one decent effort run and increase the rest days.

An example week of what I’ve just done:

Monday: Rest
Tuesday: Speed Session of 6 x 800m @ race pace off 2 mins walk recovery + 4x 200m @ 3km pace
Wednesday: AM Easy 8 Miles slow, PM Easy 4 Miles Slow
Thursday: Strength Training + Easy 6 Miles
Friday: AM 4 miles easy, PM 8 Miles consisting of 2 miles easy, 4 miles tempo, 2 easy
Saturday: 6 Miles easy including 8x 20 second strides
Sunday: 12 miles consisting of 6 Easy, 4 Tempo, 2 easy

This plan helps to build speed via the dedicated speed work, but also train the body to vary speed during a race and get used to race pace under duress, with the controlled tempo efforts amongst long runs. This represents a big load and the 2nd heaviest mileage week of my 12 week plan, so don’t start off on something like this, it’s purely illustrative. This would be after over 6 weeks of build up from a strong base.

Let me know if you’ve any questions and good luck, 17:20 is quick and suggests if you’ve no real training background you could make big gains quickly; I’d argue you’re probably naturally quicker than someone like me who relies on high volume and loses speed quickly if I don’t basically reinitiate a training block after a short break following a big race. Speed training and variation is so important, I was stuck at around 18:00 for a 5km for two years despite decent mileage because I didn’t vary my training enough or understand that you have to go through very specific cycles with the intention of peaking for a certain event; I just maintained my fitness and ever got better over 5km or 10km. When I finally got a coach, sat down and planned what my goal races were and we introduced targeted training, I’ve never looked back. Over 2 minutes off my 5km and 4 minutes off my 10km in the last two years.

Cheers mate, really appreciate the effort with your reply (apologies for the late reply, completely forgot I'd asked).

I was at a timed track event last week and got 17:01 on the track. Bouncier than roads but 27 seconds better than last years track event.

I'll look into a regimented regime like yourself, I'm sure I can get faster. But one benefit I did find which shouldn't be overlooked was building muscle, both legs and upper body. I say this as a naturally very skinny guy. I would do long runs for fun a few years back (found it a good way to explore) but found I could barely hold myself up when doing stretches at the end. And my physical weakness contributed to a spare of injuries a few years back - the achilles swelled (which I'm still managing) and I ripped my plantar fascia amongst other aches and pains. I became really conscious of this and fortunately, strength work has really protected me I think, and has helped me to become more 'energy efficient' so my body isn't flopping about like a ragdoll by the end of runs!! That might have come at the expense of more mileage but I think I'm in a good position to ramp those miles up again like you advise.

Offline Drinks Sangria

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Re: General Running Thread
« Reply #19288 on: May 31, 2024, 01:45:27 pm »
mattD, no worries. A 17:01 on the track is really good going, it would translate to a bit slower on the roads but I personally find track running way more mentally difficult. I tend to do 3,000m on the track for my club but shy away from the 5000 and 10,000 - which are my favoured road distances.

I’m putting together a specific 5km training block in a few weeks with the dual goal of also sharpening up for 3000 on the track. Would love to go sub 9:10.
“Seeing these smiling faces is the greatest pleasure. They have been magnificent all season. They have been our 12th man. I have always said our fans are the best in England. Now I know they are the best in Europe too.” Rafa Benitez

Offline paulrazor

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Re: General Running Thread
« Reply #19289 on: May 31, 2024, 01:59:30 pm »
6.2 k in 34.44 today

usually struggle to break 36 with it

and that was with a brief stop to get stones out of my runners
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Online Jean Girard

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Re: General Running Thread
« Reply #19290 on: May 31, 2024, 02:52:48 pm »
My 85k race is tomorrow on the Mourne Way. If I don't melt in the searing heat of Co. Down, I'll be in to humble brag on Monday. Garmin says I'm peaking so I have that going for me. Pray for me whilst you enjoy the sun tomorrow.
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Offline paulrazor

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Re: General Running Thread
« Reply #19291 on: May 31, 2024, 04:05:35 pm »
what part of co down mate

I live in co down
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Online Jean Girard

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Re: General Running Thread
« Reply #19292 on: May 31, 2024, 10:24:01 pm »
Mourne Way Ultra. Rostrevor to Newcastle and back.
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Re: General Running Thread
« Reply #19293 on: June 1, 2024, 12:16:59 am »
Mourne Way Ultra. Rostrevor to Newcastle and back.
best of luck
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Offline Drinks Sangria

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Re: General Running Thread
« Reply #19294 on: June 1, 2024, 09:19:06 am »
Track session incoming today.

5x 1km off 75 seconds, with the KMs at 03:00 - 03:15 (probably the slower end of that). Followed by 4 x 400m with the reps at 60 - 65 seconds.

Sounds brutal, will be awful. Love the elation of twatting a track session though.
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Offline Drinks Sangria

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Re: General Running Thread
« Reply #19295 on: June 1, 2024, 07:30:54 pm »
Track session incoming today.

5x 1km off 75 seconds, with the KMs at 03:00 - 03:15 (probably the slower end of that). Followed by 4 x 400m with the reps at 60 - 65 seconds.

Sounds brutal, will be awful. Love the elation of twatting a track session though.
Was quite easily one of the hardest sessions I’ve ever done. I forgot my spikes so had to do the session in Endorphin Pro 3s, which are a high-cushion plated shoe more suited to long distance stuff than track work.

During the KMs, I managed to stay at around 03:10 per rep, it was really tough but I was happy with the effort. However, this just seemed to completely take the intensity out of my legs and after managing 62 and 63 on the first two 400s, I dropped to 69 and 71 on the last two, completely died off. Effort was there though. Multiple times I had to use the mental repositioning of ‘this is painful and uncomfortable. Can I endure this discomfort, right now, in this moment?’ It always seems to keep me present and stop my mind from wandering to thoughts such as ‘I won’t be able to do another two reps at this pace, I’ll give up after this one.’
“Seeing these smiling faces is the greatest pleasure. They have been magnificent all season. They have been our 12th man. I have always said our fans are the best in England. Now I know they are the best in Europe too.” Rafa Benitez

Online Jean Girard

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Re: General Running Thread
« Reply #19296 on: June 2, 2024, 08:06:12 pm »
best of luck

Thanks! Didn't die, finished 7th actually - beyond any ambitions i had. Withered in the sun in the 2nd half of the race. Was as high as 4th and cruising for a bit. Couple of blisters from not looking after my wet feet at halfway after a bog crossing, and a couple of technical mountain sections meant a death march for a while, around 63- 73km. Dropped as low as 10th. Rallied in the last 10k, to claw my way back up. Never been in a race properly before, like racing it, involved. I'm not fast or experienced enough in the hills. Wasn't a particularly fast field though (winner ran 8.30 though!), and a warm day is a great leveller. Really happy with the day. 10 hours on the nose for 85k with 2500m (8200ft) of climbing. Few days off now while my feet heal.

Kilbroney, Rostrevor and Newcastle are beautiful though. Had a great night last night in Newcastle. Beach in Cranfield today.

And now, the matador shall dance with the blind shoemaker!

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Re: General Running Thread
« Reply #19297 on: June 2, 2024, 08:09:09 pm »
Was quite easily one of the hardest sessions I’ve ever done. I forgot my spikes so had to do the session in Endorphin Pro 3s, which are a high-cushion plated shoe more suited to long distance stuff than track work.

During the KMs, I managed to stay at around 03:10 per rep, it was really tough but I was happy with the effort. However, this just seemed to completely take the intensity out of my legs and after managing 62 and 63 on the first two 400s, I dropped to 69 and 71 on the last two, completely died off. Effort was there though. Multiple times I had to use the mental repositioning of ‘this is painful and uncomfortable. Can I endure this discomfort, right now, in this moment?’ It always seems to keep me present and stop my mind from wandering to thoughts such as ‘I won’t be able to do another two reps at this pace, I’ll give up after this one.’


Sounds brutal. All a head game running too.

Might try get some fast session ideas from you though. Going to start a marathon training cycle once I can move my toes again.
« Last Edit: June 2, 2024, 08:12:27 pm by Jean Girard »
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Offline red_Mark1980

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Re: General Running Thread
« Reply #19298 on: June 2, 2024, 08:14:15 pm »
Thanks! Didn't die, finished 7th actually - beyond any ambitions i had. Withered in the sun in the 2nd half of the race. Was as high as 4th and cruising for a bit. Couple of blisters from not looking after my wet feet at halfway after a bog crossing, and a couple of technical mountain sections meant a death march for a while, around 63- 73km. Dropped as low as 10th. Rallied in the last 10k, to claw my way back up. Never been in a race properly before, like racing it, involved. I'm not fast or experienced enough in the hills. Wasn't a particularly fast field though (winner ran 8.30 though!), and a warm day is a great leveller. Really happy with the day. 10 hours on the nose for 85k with 2500m (8200ft) of climbing. Few days off now while my feet heal.

Kilbroney, Rostrevor and Newcastle are beautiful though. Had a great night last night in Newcastle. Beach in Cranfield today.




I've done the maths and just getting over the line in a 85k is winning.

Well done

Offline paulrazor

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Re: General Running Thread
« Reply #19299 on: June 2, 2024, 09:56:12 pm »
Had a ten mike run planned for tomorrow

Sadly I've wrecked my knee so I'll be going to hospital instead. Dunno how bad. On crutches for first time in my life at 41
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Re: General Running Thread
« Reply #19300 on: June 2, 2024, 10:20:54 pm »
Had a ten mike run planned for tomorrow

Sadly I've wrecked my knee so I'll be going to hospital instead. Dunno how bad. On crutches for first time in my life at 41

Oh no, what's happened?


Well done

Thanks Mark!
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Re: General Running Thread
« Reply #19301 on: June 2, 2024, 10:29:39 pm »
Oh no, what's happened?

Thanks Mark!
played football yesterday. Cleaned out taking a shot. Ankle iffy but knee is in bits. Possible ligament damage
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Re: General Running Thread
« Reply #19302 on: June 2, 2024, 10:31:51 pm »
Ouch. Get better soon.

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Re: General Running Thread
« Reply #19303 on: June 2, 2024, 10:33:39 pm »
played football yesterday. Cleaned out taking a shot. Ankle iffy but knee is in bits. Possible ligament damage

Jaysus. Take care, hopefully not as bad as you fear
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Re: General Running Thread
« Reply #19304 on: June 3, 2024, 02:23:32 pm »
Can anyone in this thread recommend a massage gun? Are they all the same? Do they improve muscle pains?

Foam roller isn't cutting it at the moment for me.

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Re: General Running Thread
« Reply #19305 on: June 3, 2024, 05:36:52 pm »
Thanks guys

The xray doesnt seem to show significant damage

Its sprained so only painkillers and anti inflammatories and doing the usual RICE treatment

2-3 weeks off, I will miss a 10k race I had entered

Going to do upper body weights in meantime


Can anyone in this thread recommend a massage gun? Are they all the same? Do they improve muscle pains?

Foam roller isn't cutting it at the moment for me.


https://www.boots.ie/boots-deep-tissue-percussion-massage-gun-10320554

Wife uses this, her local spa use it too

she says its good
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Re: General Running Thread
« Reply #19306 on: June 3, 2024, 07:01:39 pm »
Sounds like the best of the worst case scenarios, Paul. Few weeks will fly past.
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Re: General Running Thread
« Reply #19307 on: June 3, 2024, 07:23:27 pm »
Bad luck that Paul, but does sound like not as bad as first feared which is good. Make sure you stay off it - I turned a two week sprain into a long term problem by trying to go back too early. Let yourself heal. Then when you feel ready, give yourself a few more days then a super gentle test.
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Offline paulrazor

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Re: General Running Thread
« Reply #19308 on: June 3, 2024, 08:56:49 pm »
Yeah I was worried it was gonna be maybe a surgery job

Probably helped that my legs are in great nick through running, weights, circuit training etc

I'll take it easy for now
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