Topic: What Car Do You Own/Drive?

[[new username under construction]]

I think what we'll see is that you buy just the car (without batteries) then lease the battery (well, the provision of *a* battery) on a monthly basis, paying for each replacement.

It makes sense.

The trouble is, a lot of money has been invested into the charging network, which would be rendered increasingly obsolete if a [much better, more efficient] battery-replacement system became dominant.

I think that's happening with everything though, no one can keep up!

[ToneLa]

none

[El_Frank]

It's the holier than thou attitude I've come across and the bragging about how little the car costs to charge that winds me up. Yeah, you can charge it for £4.50 but it costs £50k more than my car to buy    When I was driving the Lamborghini the other week, got chatting to a Tesla driver and he was going on about how little it cost to charge, but I paid £6k for my car, I'll never be in a situation where an EV makes economic sense.

I'm fully onboard with the need to get away from Oil, but some the EV mob leave themselves open to ridicule with the way they act all high and mighty. I don't believe what I read anymore, but is it true they had charging stations at Glastonbury running off Diesel generators?

Exactly. Electricity isn't a fuel, it has to be produced via other means. Most people at the minute seem to blindly think that an EV means clean, when it's quite the opposite.
In the future we'll all be in them as we'll be priced out of anything else, intentionally so (or at least off traditional oil, we may have hydrogen or other means yet realised) and maybe the fuel will be cleaner but we'll be on 'fuels' that will have their own risks, their own costs etc.
Someone else mentioned the materials and the mining: there is a tonne of problems with such materials, it's essentially the same as oil in many ways with regards to obtaining the materials themselves, the effects on the local areas, conflicts, and so on. Also, those with EV's: what is your cars paint made from? What is the interior made from? What are your tyres made from? That all needs to change too. And finally, what do people think is going to happen to electricity prices once everyone is on electric? They're going to go through the roof and the monopoly is going to be something else, but first they must lure people in; "you're saving the planet, buy our much more expensive product".
Also, are they going to be happy to let go of the charges they currently have for non-electric vehicles in cities and the like? No, they'll find a way to keep that rinse too.

[Nobby Reserve]

It's the holier than thou attitude I've come across and the bragging about how little the car costs to charge that winds me up. Yeah, you can charge it for £4.50 but it costs £50k more than my car to buy    When I was driving the Lamborghini the other week, got chatting to a Tesla driver and he was going on about how little it cost to charge, but I paid £6k for my car, I'll never be in a situation where an EV makes economic sense.

I lease (get an allowance from work) and the EV I've ordered will be £100/month more than the car I've got now.

But I'll save £11/month in road tax and at least £100/month in fuel.

Then there's the servicing costs, which will be about a third of what I have to pay now.

The sums add up.

[-Willo-]

I think it depends on the colour for these ones, the black and even orange ones look fantastic in my opinion

[rob1966]

I think it depends on the colour for these ones, the black and even orange ones look fantastic in my opinion

This is what a Mustang should look like. 



I know it's all about personal taste, but I just do not like the look of boxy, sit high in the air cars, which is quite ironic considering what I drive of a weekend

[SalahsLeftFoot]

I lease (get an allowance from work) and the EV I've ordered will be £100/month more than the car I've got now.

But I'll save £11/month in road tax and at least £100/month in fuel.

Then there's the servicing costs, which will be about a third of what I have to pay now.

The sums add up.

There was a BBC podcast the other month asking just how accurate all these savings calculations were and they came to the conclusion - after consulting experts in the field - that if you were in the position of having to buy a new car and were considering new ICE v new EV then given (i) at the current cost of petrol/diesel and electricity and (ii) the current difference in retail price it would take 400k miles for the EV to break even on the ICE. Which is roughly 10 years for the average driver in the UK 

And the cynic in me says that after 2030 there will be no saving in road tax; there is no way they can afford to miss out on the amount of revenue that road tax currently brings in.

[SalahsLeftFoot]

I think it depends on the colour for these ones, the black and even orange ones look fantastic in my opinion

Got to agree here. But then I have never owned any car that wasn't a Ford 

[Riquende]

I know it's all about personal taste, but I just do not like the look of boxy, sit high in the air cars, which is quite ironic considering what I drive of a weekend

I have no time for most SUVs. There are a couple I do like, they look like chunky sports hatchbacks. The Cupra Formentor, the previous model AMG GLA, maybe one or two others.

I've been on the fence about changing to something more sensible than my current car, but with my current job involving a company car to take up that role, I've just decided to keep my Mini Roadster.

[Nobby Reserve]

it would take 400k miles for the EV to break even on the ICE. Which is roughly 10 years for the average driver in the UK 

I'd be inrigued to see the calculation for that, because that 400k miles figure makes no sense.

[CraigDS]

I'd be inrigued to see the calculation for that, because that 400k miles figure makes no sense.

Was going to say the same.

[SalahsLeftFoot]

I'd be inrigued to see the calculation for that, because that 400k miles figure makes no sense.

Was going to say the same.

I'll try and dig it out.

to be honest the expert may not have been comparing like with like (for the retail price comparison) and may have had a fairly negative view (from an EV perspective) on savings on "pence per mile" between EV and ICE. I could also have hisheard the 400k when it was actually 40k 

[Nobby Reserve]

Was reading about BMW moving to a system whereby you'll need to pay monthly or annual subscriptions to use certain functions of your car.

Want to be able to use the heated seats? It'll cost you £15/month

Haated steering wheel? £10/month

Use the headlight assist? Another £10/month

More additional charges to use wireless Apple Carplay/Android Auto, or the adaptive cruise control.


These are all functions that are already built into the car. But BMW puts a 'software blocker' on being able to use them. Pay them extra money and they unblock the software.

Greedy, greedy c*nts.

[Son of Spion]

^
I genuinely had to check it wasn't April 1st after reading your post. 

[Red-Soldier]

Was reading about BMW moving to a system whereby you'll need to pay monthly or annual subscriptions to use certain functions of your car.

Want to be able to use the heated seats? It'll cost you £15/month

Haated steering wheel? £10/month

Use the headlight assist? Another £10/month

More additional charges to use wireless Apple Carplay/Android Auto, or the adaptive cruise control.


These are all functions that are already built into the car. But BMW puts a 'software blocker' on being able to use them. Pay them extra money and they unblock the software.

Greedy, greedy c*nts.

Who cares.  Driven by wankers anyway.  They are just exploiting the wanker market a bit more 

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

Was reading about BMW moving to a system whereby you'll need to pay monthly or annual subscriptions to use certain functions of your car.

Want to be able to use the heated seats? It'll cost you £15/month

Haated steering wheel? £10/month

Use the headlight assist? Another £10/month

More additional charges to use wireless Apple Carplay/Android Auto, or the adaptive cruise control.


These are all functions that are already built into the car. But BMW puts a 'software blocker' on being able to use them. Pay them extra money and they unblock the software.

Greedy, greedy c*nts.

I don't actually think it's that bad of an idea compared to the existing model.

Currently, these features do not come with the car as standard. So, as an example, to add a package with heated seats and a heated steering wheel, it'll at present add on just shy of £1,000 to the price of the car, or around £20 a month if you got it on a PCP. So if those things were of interest to me, I'd rather pay the monthly add-ons during the winter rather than having to pay more from the outset or every month even though I had no use for them for most of the year. I guess the issue is that it will also encourage people to pay for them that wouldn't have ordinarily chose to have a car operating with such features, just because they can, and those that would normally get a high-spec car will likely end up now paying more for the privilege.

It might also benefit the second-hand market as a car that wouldn't have normally had these features can now have them "switched on". Better for buyers looking for high-spec (although likely more costly) and better for sellers as their car has more features.

Obviously there are drawbacks too and BMW will only be doing it as they will think it'll be more profitable to them, but there are some advantages for some types of consumer as well I think.

[ChaChaMooMoo]

I think its a little bit more than that.

The module is already installed in the car. It costs money already. BMW will charge you for that. Thats how things currently are.
The switching on/off is a monthly feature. Which would cost you, on top of the cost of the module itself.
I dont think the price of the module (to the end consumer) is going to reduce because they are shifting to this subscription method.

Ot atleast thats what I understood.

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

I think its a little bit more than that.

The module is already installed in the car. It costs money already. BMW will charge you for that. Thats how things currently are.
The switching on/off is a monthly feature. Which would cost you, on top of the cost of the module itself.
I dont think the price of the module (to the end consumer) is going to reduce because they are shifting to this subscription method.

Ot atleast thats what I understood.

Will have to wait and see if a base BMW starts to cost more with these features added as standard.

[ChaChaMooMoo]

I can see why BMW chooses such a model.

We did a consulting project where we analysed a prominent premium car model for all features and all accessories. We had 2.5 billion permutations and combinations. Yes. With a B.

I will give you an example. Suppose a company offered a car with 3 different body types, 10 different body colours, 5 different wheel designs and 3 different engines. We have 3x10x5x3 (=450) different combinations that this vehicle can be ordered. And this is even before considering size of the wheels, fuel type, safety features, and all types of accessories within the occupant compartment.

This OEM wanted to reduce the complexities because many millions of combinations will never be sold or even considered. That means probably ordering parts that storing them in the warehouse. By reducing parts complexity, the manufacturing process is standardised and lesser inventory translating to lower cost to the end consumer. I can agree with this logic.

Lync & co, for example, has everything standardised. You can only order the car in black or blue and with or without trailer hook. Thats all. So 4 possibilities. Thats it. Everything else is within the car.

I dont agree with the subscription though. That is a dick move.

[rob1966]

I can see why BMW chooses such a model.

We did a consulting project where we analysed a prominent premium car model for all features and all accessories. We had 2.5 billion permutations and combinations. Yes. With a B.

I will give you an example. Suppose a company offered a car with 3 different body types, 10 different body colours, 5 different wheel designs and 3 different engines. We have 3x10x5x3 (=450) different combinations that this vehicle can be ordered. And this is even before considering size of the wheels, fuel type, safety features, and all types of accessories within the occupant compartment.

This OEM wanted to reduce the complexities because many millions of combinations will never be sold or even considered. That means probably ordering parts that storing them in the warehouse. By reducing parts complexity, the manufacturing process is standardised and lesser inventory translating to lower cost to the end consumer. I can agree with this logic.

Lync & co, for example, has everything standardised. You can only order the car in black or blue and with or without trailer hook. Thats all. So 4 possibilities. Thats it. Everything else is within the car.

I dont agree with the subscription though. That is a dick move.

Yeah I can see the point from BMW's side. I know from cars I've had in the past, if I wanted to retrofit certain things such as central locking or electric windows or heated seats, then I have to wire them in myself, as the loom didn't have the wiring. I have had a base spec car that did have the top spec loom, so it was just a case of plugging things in, but that was an old Capri or Cortina from the late 70's, nothing newer. Always thought it's not an efficient thing to do to have to build different looms for different spec cars. It must be cheaper in the long run to build every car at the same high spec.

There will be geeks trying to work out how to switch the things on and hide it from BMW, as I know BMW constantly monitor their cars with BMW assist, my director got a phone call from BMW while driving down the M6 to inform him of a developing fault and to book the car into a dealer, so they will be looking for things like heated seats coming on without a subscription.

It is a dick move as while people will be happy to not specify heated seats, steering wheels etc, the temptation to activate them will be too much and once you've used a heated seat on a freezing cold morning, you'll want them all the time. I was in work at 5am last Saturday and it was chilly enough at 4:30 for me to pop the seat heater on for a few minutes.

[[new username under construction]]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand hacked

[rob1966]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand hacked

Going to be a huge market for it

If i was in the market for a second hand car, I'd only buy one that either didn't charge for the stuff or that has been hacked. Wonder how it will affect non main dealers selling used cars, will they be expected to check the car hasn't been hacked?

[ChaChaMooMoo]

Thats a very good point actually.

Because it works on a monthly subscription, I would assume the seller to disable all subscriptions before giving it to the dealer/seller.

However, if its hacked, I would assume the hackers to do much more than just disable/able the seat heating or steering wheel heating. More like, recalibrating CBU remotely, or extending range (has anyone ever hacked Tesla?!?), or forging service history and the likes...

[I've been a good boy]

Got a warning light on my car (2015 BMW 1 series) saying the battery is not charging, is it just a simple battery change that's needed? Saw online it can also be something to do with the alternator.

[Graeme]

Did you pay for the battery charging subscription?

[Keita Success]

Moving from my Diesel 1.6 VW Golf to a VW Golf Life 1.5 TSI... whatever that means.

Company car which I never use for work on account of remote working.

[rob1966]

Got a warning light on my car (2015 BMW 1 series) saying the battery is not charging, is it just a simple battery change that's needed? Saw online it can also be something to do with the alternator.

Normally its the alternator that is failing to charge when you get that light. Nip down to a local Kwik -Fit (or a motor factor if they offer the free check)  and get the battery and charging circuit checked.

https://www.kwik-fit.com/batteries/information/free-battery-check

[rob1966]

Moving from my Diesel 1.6 VW Golf to a VW Golf Life 1.5 TSI... whatever that means.

Company car which I never use for work on account of remote working.

Engine is a 1.5ltr Turbo Petrol.

[John C]

Did you pay for the battery charging subscription?

[ChaChaMooMoo]

Did you pay for the battery charging subscription?

 

[I've been a good boy]

Sorry Graeme 10/10 post but the news I got has completely pissed me off I can't even muster up a smile. Turns out there's a massive oil leak and it's displaced the belt which is why the car is running on the battery at the moment. I didn't really understand it but that's how he described it. I definitely need to go electric asap.

[Graeme]

Urgh. How much to fix? This is why I switched to leasing. Fixed monthly amount and the car will always be under warranty.

[ChaChaMooMoo]

There is thing in Germany called car subscription.

So you pay like 500 euros a month and you get the car, like a small SUV, medium sized sedan and the likes.

Whats included..

1. About 1500 kms a month
2. Full vehicle insurance
3. Fully cost of yearly maintenance
4. Summer tire winter tire rotation and storage
5. Road tax

Whats not included
1. Fuel cost

If I pay 675 a month (incl. tax) and I could be driving a BMW 3 series, 800 could get me a 5 series and 1000 for the top-of-the-line Tesla.

Makes great idea for a shot term deal to try out the car and decide if we want to own them permanently.

[[new username under construction]]

There is thing in Germany called car subscription.

So you pay like 500 euros a month and you get the car, like a small SUV, medium sized sedan and the likes.

Whats included..

1. About 1500 kms a month
2. Full vehicle insurance
3. Fully cost of yearly maintenance
4. Summer tire winter tire rotation and storage
5. Road tax

Whats not included
1. Fuel cost

If I pay 675 a month (incl. tax) and I could be driving a BMW 3 series, 800 could get me a 5 series and 1000 for the top-of-the-line Tesla.

Makes great idea for a shot term deal to try out the car and decide if we want to own them permanently.

Someone would clean up if they did £150-£200 a month for electric vehicles for students/nurses etc

[JC the Messiah]

Had my GR Yaris for almost a year now. Still love this incredible little machine,and it still makes me smile more than anything I've ever driven.

[gazzam1963]

There is thing in Germany called car subscription.

So you pay like 500 euros a month and you get the car, like a small SUV, medium sized sedan and the likes.

Whats included..

1. About 1500 kms a month
2. Full vehicle insurance
3. Fully cost of yearly maintenance
4. Summer tire winter tire rotation and storage
5. Road tax

Whats not included
1. Fuel cost

If I pay 675 a month (incl. tax) and I could be driving a BMW 3 series, 800 could get me a 5 series and 1000 for the top-of-the-line Tesla.

Makes great idea for a shot term deal to try out the car and decide if we want to own them permanently.

My neighbour has done this for about three months and is happy with it and I’ve started to look into it as an alternative
to my pcp which is up in November . My car has a surplus atm due to used car prices still having value in them so thinking
of the change .

The pluses seem to be

Never having a car more than 12 months old
A different model every six months if you want
no initial deposit besides a one off £550 fee
Can take a break if circumstances dictate

The minus is it seems to be roughly about £100+ a month more expensive taking every into consideration , seems to be a new
alternative and with the price of cars going up plus finance rates it’s a bit more attractive

[thejbs]

There is thing in Germany called car subscription.

So you pay like 500 euros a month and you get the car, like a small SUV, medium sized sedan and the likes.

Whats included..

1. About 1500 kms a month
2. Full vehicle insurance
3. Fully cost of yearly maintenance
4. Summer tire winter tire rotation and storage
5. Road tax

Whats not included
1. Fuel cost

If I pay 675 a month (incl. tax) and I could be driving a BMW 3 series, 800 could get me a 5 series and 1000 for the top-of-the-line Tesla.

Makes great idea for a shot term deal to try out the car and decide if we want to own them permanently.

I’ve thought it would be good to have this seasonally so you could have a 4x4 for 3 months of the year when it might be needed.

[RAWK Meltdown #1]

UPDATE:

Have driven 1,500 miles in this Hybrid so far.

Averaging 59 miles per gallon.

I can't see me ever going back to a pure petrol or diesel engine....not at current fuel prices!!

Though far from being a performance car....it pulls quite well in "sports mode" too...so you don't have to just potter about in ECO if you feel like giving it the juice now and then.

We wanted a sedan that would be economical with lots of bells and whistles.

Ok...the heated steering wheel has yet to be tried out, but the air-cooled-seats definitely felt good during the recent heatwave the other week.

So yeah, happy with it so-far!!

It's got us on the "leccy" ladder...so we're feeling a bit more reassured that when that kicks in BIG TIME in a few years, we'll be a bit more conversant with that side of things.

[[new username under construction]]

Have driven 1,500 miles in this Hybrid so far.

Averaging 59 miles per gallon.

I can't see me ever going back to a pure petrol or diesel engine....not at current fuel prices!!

Though far from being a performance car....it pulls quite well in "sports mode" too...so you don't have to just potter about in ECO if you feel like giving it the juice now and then.

We wanted a sedan that would be economical with lots of bells and whistles.

Ok...the heated steering wheel has yet to be tried out, but the air-cooled-seats definitely felt good during the recent heatwave the other week.

So yeah, happy with it so-far!!

It's got us on the "leccy" ladder...so we're feeling a bit more reassured that when that kicks in BIG TIME in a few years, we'll be a bit more conversant with that side of things.

I'm not sure if the Hybrids do it but can you preheat / Precool the car with the app? I think it might be a subscription thing (free if leasing) but a life saver on Winter mornings and I assume precooled on Hot days is great when out an about

[RAWK Meltdown #1]

I'm not sure if the Hybrids do it but can you preheat / Precool the car with the app? I think it might be a subscription thing (free if leasing) but a life saver on Winter mornings and I assume precooled on Hot days is great when out an about

Yep....there's a phone app that lets you do all that....plus, if you leave the car unlocked, you'll get a text and be invited to lock it remotely. You'll then get a confirmation text to say the car's now been secured.

I think all of these features are definitely going to be the new battleground for future buyers who are evaluating different cars in similar classes. Ironically....MG lost MY potential custom immediately because their cars didn't even have an "outside temp" display on the dash. I mean...man....such an easy, standard thing (nowadays) but they opted to leave it out for reasons best known to themselves....and made me (a potential customer) an instant "walk-away."

I mean...it really was a deal-breaker for me!!