Topic: PL: Man Utd 2 vs 2 Liv Diaz 23’ Fernandes 50’ Mainoo 67’ Mo 84’

[Draex]

The stat that Sky bring up when we need a goal in the last 15 mins is interesting….we are way ahead of most teams which shows we score when we need to. But what is interesting is that Arsenal and City are not on the first page, just occurred to me that actually what it shows is that those 2 teams kill off games before the last 15 mins of the game and simply just manage the game out, while we are constantly needing to score in the last 15 mins to draw/win. This is fine but at some point it will catch us up, like it did yesterday, when we needed 2 to win.

Correct and maybe this is why we have so many injuries, we're still playing full intensity right till the 96th minute regularly. Must be mentally draining to keep going to the wall and beyond to overturn leads.

[William Regal]

For the first 50 minutes of the game we were completely dominant, played great, all that was missing was taking the chances and that is why Jota walks into our strongest 11 whenever hes fit, we are so wasteful with our chances, 62 shots in the 2 league games against Man Utd and the only 2 goals we could manage were from set pieces.

I really dont get why we've took Szoboszlai off after an hour in both the Old Trafford games, his running and ability to drive the ball forward has absolutely dominated Man utd, they couldnt cope with it at all, both times when we've made that substitution we completely lost a grip of the game, Man Utd will have been delighted to see him come off.

The other gripe will be a common one on here, but why play Konate against Sheff Utd instead of this game, why are we gambling his fitness in lower competitive games like this and the Sparta Prague games at a priority over Man City and Man Utd games that are just 3 days later.

The equaliser and subsequent point could prove very important. Man City are capable of winning every single game in the run in but I really fancy spurs to take something off Arsenal in the run in.

[AndyMuller]

We just seem to try and score the perfect goal lately by walking it into the net.

Reminds me of Arsenal back in the day but they had Henry who finished it.

[Bucko - Dubai]

Over 2 games against them in the league:

Xg:
6.4 - 1.45

Shots:
62 - 15

To not win either game with such ridiculous dominance will likely be the difference unfortunately.

[Nick110581]

Over 2 games against them in the league:

Xg:
6.4 - 1.45

Shots:
62 - 15

To not win either game with such ridiculous dominance will likely be the difference unfortunately.

The difference would be the other draws too. Luton away springs to mind.

[B0151?]

The difference would be the other draws too. Luton away springs to mind.

I don't get this "would be the difference" talk myself

We're second on goal difference..What will be the difference is the next 7 games

It's true we've drawn more than City and Arsenal. We've also lost less than them. That could end up being the difference too.

We have had a really good season so far, way better than most predicted. We shouldn't bemoaning any results. We've snatched the win from being behind so many times. We should be proud and hopeful that we can make it a special finish.  What we've been doing is crazy good.

[Realgman]

The difference was spurs and Arsenal when we got shafted...
We are still right at the top, and can do this.. but we have done enough to be a few more points ahead, but sure....

[Bucko - Dubai]

I don't get this "would be the difference" talk myself

We're second on goal difference..What will be the difference is the next 7 games

It's true we've drawn more than City and Arsenal. We've also lost less than them. That could end up being the difference too.

We have had a really good season so far, way better than most predicted. We shouldn't bemoaning any results. We've snatched the win from being behind so many times. We should be proud and hopeful that we can make it a special finish.  What we've been doing is crazy good.

Yes very true. We've won a few where we maybe didn't deserve it.

Think it's natural for supporters to look at what we deserved to get when dropping points rather than undeserved points we earned.

All 3 clubs will have what ifs, but feel the games against United and the VAR decisions against Abu Dhabi amd Arsenal have been huge swings

[Raid]

I think the biggest disappointment for me is we knew what to expect and failed to learn the lesson.

It's not the end of the world though, even when we romped to 27 wins out of 28 to start the 2019/20 season, the one draw was at that place.

There will be more twists, Abu Dhabi are fallible this season and if Arsenal win out then you just have to doff your cap to their run in 2024. But they won't - and when Arsenal drop points, it comes back into our hands provided we continue to do our job.

Reinforcements are on the way with Alisson, Trent and Jota. Believe.

[Bennett]

I need cheering up. An Everton points deduction announcement should do the trick.

[Draex]

This happened a lot, me too Jurgen..

https://twitter.com/i/status/1777000783059267701

[the_red_pill]

Okay, I've had some time to reflect ....... and I still think we bottled it(OT- not the league), BUT I've calmed down.

Also, it was a one-off (three-off?) where clearly the occassion got to us- just like it did at Arsenal away.
After having thought about it, I can understand why that is. Klopp's started a rebuild and we're packed with young players and new signings from teams that have not been involved in situations where a prolonged mental strength is needed, so they've done well so far, but are not there, YET.

So, apologies, redmen. I am one of those who were too harsh on you.

The occasion was too big for us.

GOOD NEWS? We're done with that.
From here on out- it's only Goodison and Spurs at home, but I'm sure we can handle those.

[...]

Yes very true. We've won a few where we maybe didn't deserve it.

Think it's natural for supporters to look at what we deserved to get when dropping points rather than undeserved points we earned.

All 3 clubs will have what ifs, but feel the games against United and the VAR decisions against Abu Dhabi amd Arsenal have been huge swings

We also won how many games in the 90th min? We've been very lucky too.

[B0151?]

Okay, I've had some time to reflect ....... and I still think we bottled it(OT- not the league), BUT I've calmed down.

Also, it was a one-off (three-off?) where clearly the occassion got to us- just like it did at Arsenal away.
After having thought about it, I can understand why that is. Klopp's started a rebuild and we're packed with young players and new signings from teams that have not been involved in situations where a prolonged mental strength is needed, so they've done well so far, but are not there, YET.

So, apologies, redmen. I am one of those who were too harsh on you.

The occasion was too big for us.

GOOD NEWS? We're done with that.
From here on out- it's only Goodison and Spurs at home, but I'm sure we can handle those.

Games like this are where the absences really cost you I think, and inexperience can show. Jota Trent Ali Matip/Konate, all proven big game players who might have made a difference. Imagine start of season someone told you Kelleher Bradley and Quansah would be starting in this and the City game when we're in title hunt. That's why we can't get too downbeat about it imo. I'm glad they have the experience and they deserved to be playing, just think one shouldn't forget the journey this season has been.

[whtwht]

Now reflecting again over these league games vs the Mancs
60 odd shots and no goals in open play. Ridiculous and to still be in touch to win the league is amazing to be honest

[Zlen]

Can I just say it's immensely frustrating that not a single one of our players bar Diaz can sell a good dummy shot. United were throwing themselves like lunatics into blocks all game long, one good dummy and you basically have a clean shot on goal. But nobody did it, not once.

[thaddeus]

Definitely a missed opportunity when you look at the awful side that Man U sent out.  I don't think they've got an elite side amongst their squad anyway but that back four they had out was awful and they also didn't have McTominay who is by far their most mobile midfielder.  So many times we had runners the wrong side of their midfield, bearing down on that crappy defence and the attacks just petered out to nothing.  It's always going to be hard to play through a crowded penalty area and that is what is it, it was the failure to capitalise when they were stretched that was more frustrating.

That said, they had two goals out of nothing and created almost nothing else.  I'm not even sure the Antony chance near the end should be counted as surely VAR would have ruled it out for the foul on Salah five seconds earlier (although we should never taken anything for granted with those clowns).

Maguire must be the most coddled player in the Premier League.  He covers for his lack of mobility by constantly shirt and limb pulling but never gets penalised for it.  When our big lads match up to him at set-pieces he gets given free-kicks for the most innocuous of contacts.

[Dubred]

I don't get this "would be the difference" talk myself

We're second on goal difference..What will be the difference is the next 7 games

It's true we've drawn more than City and Arsenal. We've also lost less than them. That could end up being the difference too.

We have had a really good season so far, way better than most predicted. We shouldn't bemoaning any results. We've snatched the win from being behind so many times. We should be proud and hopeful that we can make it a special finish.  What we've been doing is crazy good.

Absolutely agree with you.  We've had an amazing season.

The only results we should be bemoaning are Spurs (Diaz goal) and City (Doku challenge).  Two examples that had nothing to do with the players and everything to do with the reffing. 

We'd be away and clear.

[clinical]

I really miss Firmino's intelligence. He 100% cuts back that ball back to Szoboszlai at 1-1 for a tap in.

[Redley]

I really miss Firmino's intelligence. He 100% cuts back that ball back to Szoboszlai at 1-1 for a tap in.

He 100% isn't in that position in the first place.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Lots of interesting takes on the match but I think the most realistic ones are those that think we just got a bit carried away in front of goal. Level heads and different decisions at the crucial moments would have seen us through, but it felt rushed and that we passed when we should have shot or vice/versa.... Just heads down football.

It's what we do so well: the passion, the speed, the chaos. Overwhelm oppponents and get the goals, except we didn't and it came back to bite us. If we're winning 2-0 or 3-0 in the first half and Quansah's error is just a wake-up call, not a springboard for a shitshow.

Whatever. It's done. Atalanta. Let's go again!

We were absolute shite yesterday. Stank the place out - but that's fine. Every team is allowed to be shite now and then.

Probably got zero chance of winning the league, but to be awesome til the end of the season was always a big ask. Now I think we've fucked it up, I'll probably enjoy the games more as none of it matters any more.

Get to the final if we can and just enjoy a kick about in the last games and just enjoy it. Beats the stress

[cyador]

Was anyone honestly expecting anything other than a draw at Old Trafford? We were never going to get a win there, not with the title on the line. We were never going to get a win, it just wasn't going to happen.

It was blatantly obvious a drawer was the most we'd get.

I'm actually quite optimistic about our chances for the title, I don't think Arsenal will go the rest of the season without dropping a point or two, we've just got to make sure we won our remaining games.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Was anyone honestly expecting anything other than a draw at Old Trafford? We were never going to get a win there, not with the title on the line. We were never going to get a win, it just wasn't going to happen.

It was blatantly obvious a drawer was the most we'd get.

I'm actually quite optimistic about our chances for the title, I don't think Arsenal will go the rest of the season without dropping a point or two, we've just got to make sure we won our remaining games.

Absolutely no way we're winning at Goodison and I'm going to that. I reckon 1-1.

[cyador]

True, the Goodison game worries me to be honest. We're pretty awful there and the bitters will play the game if their lives.

I'm a bit more confident of us getting a win there than at Old Trafford though.

[JackWard33]

I understand that this will be meanginless to many but ultimately we went away from home to our bitter rivals (who are the 6th-8t best team in the league) basically destroyed them and had an incredibly unlucky day in their final third
28-9 shots... 3.67 (including a penalty) - 0.7 xg - that's pretty much as good as it gets in a game of that type

This happens to every good team a couple of times in a season .. it just really sucks it happened in that game at this point in this season

I get that its created a lot of frustration but many of the narratives and conclusions on here (and no doubt in lfc podcast land), especially about our forwards who all had bad days, will be recency based exaggerations or just be flat out wrong

If anything the performance (which was way better than the cup game) should be encouraging for the run in however the ramifications of the dropped points will make it the opposite

[clinical]

He 100% isn't in that position in the first place.

There's nothing wrong in saying Nunez isn't as good as Bobby you know. Very few are. His game intelligence was his best asset.

[nerdster4]

Who the fuck are you ?

Hope the hangover isn’t so bad today

[killer-heels]

I understand that this will be meanginless to many but ultimately we went away from home to our bitter rivals (who are the 6th-8t best team in the league) basically destroyed them and had an incredibly unlucky day in their final third
28-9 shots... 3.67 (including a penalty) - 0.7 xg - that's pretty much as good as it gets in a game of that type

This happens to every good team a couple of times in a season .. it just really sucks it happened in that game at this point in this season

I get that its created a lot of frustration but many of the narratives and conclusions on here (and no doubt in lfc podcast land), especially about our forwards who all had bad days, will be recency based exaggerations or just be flat out wrong

If anything the performance (which was way better than the cup game) should be encouraging for the run in however the ramifications of the dropped points will make it the opposite

We have been incredibly unlucky to concede any of the four goals we have since the break. We went through a period after the turn of the year where we were conceding good chances like against Forest and Burnley. But since the break apart from a slightly lax performance against Sheffield United, we have tightened up.

[decosabute]

For the first 50 minutes of the game we were completely dominant, played great, all that was missing was taking the chances and that is why Jota walks into our strongest 11 whenever hes fit, we are so wasteful with our chances, 62 shots in the 2 league games against Man Utd and the only 2 goals we could manage were from set pieces.

I really dont get why we've took Szoboszlai off after an hour in both the Old Trafford games, his running and ability to drive the ball forward has absolutely dominated Man utd, they couldnt cope with it at all, both times when we've made that substitution we completely lost a grip of the game, Man Utd will have been delighted to see him come off.

The other gripe will be a common one on here, but why play Konate against Sheff Utd instead of this game, why are we gambling his fitness in lower competitive games like this and the Sparta Prague games at a priority over Man City and Man Utd games that are just 3 days later.

The equaliser and subsequent point could prove very important. Man City are capable of winning every single game in the run in but I really fancy spurs to take something off Arsenal in the run in.

The simple reason he was taken off in both games is cos he played the same, stupid game both times at Old Trafford. He is a strong runner and hard worker, but the truth is, he was given the run of the park yesterday by a completely vacant United midfield. And he frequently made terrible decisions when it came time to play the ball.

I would agree that we didn't improve yesterday when Jones came on, who had an uncharacteristically poor game. But it looked like a substitution that totally made sense in the moment to me.

[decosabute]

I understand that this will be meanginless to many but ultimately we went away from home to our bitter rivals (who are the 6th-8t best team in the league) basically destroyed them and had an incredibly unlucky day in their final third
28-9 shots... 3.67 (including a penalty) - 0.7 xg - that's pretty much as good as it gets in a game of that type

This happens to every good team a couple of times in a season .. it just really sucks it happened in that game at this point in this season

I get that its created a lot of frustration but many of the narratives and conclusions on here (and no doubt in lfc podcast land), especially about our forwards who all had bad days, will be recency based exaggerations or just be flat out wrong

If anything the performance (which was way better than the cup game) should be encouraging for the run in however the ramifications of the dropped points will make it the opposite

It's not unlucky when you miss chances and make terrible decisions.

And it's not just "one of those days" when we literally played almost the same game (with the halves reversed) against the same opponent in the same stadium a few weeks ago. We had our warning with that FA Cup game and still pissed away an easy win yesterday. Not unforgivable of course, but hard to take.

I love this team, and no matter what happens, they've given us a season beyond what anyone expected, but it's OK to say they fucked it yesterday, because they did.

[the_red_pill]

The simple reason he was taken off in both games is cos he played the same, stupid game both games at Old Trafford. He is a strong runner and hard worker, but the truth is, he was given the run of the park yesterday by a complete vacant United midfield. And he frequently made terrible decisions when it came time to play the ball.

I would agree that we didn't improve yesterday when Jones came on, who had an uncharacteristically poor game. But it looked like a substitution that totally made sense in the moment to me.

Like I said- I think(no shit, Sherlock!) the occassion was too big for us yesterday.. understandably, and I will grant us that.

Everyone had a mare, except Macca.

The defense, like in the FA Cup game was inexperienced (Quansah, Bradley, Kelleher) for the atmosphere at our hated rival, in a game of this magnitude. It's Zsoboslai's first season outing at OT... so his head went. Understandable. Endo just got his head down, cause he's a humble worker- he keeps his eye on performing his job. Macca ran the show cause he's been to OT on a regular basis.
Then there's the fact that it was Jone's first game back, etc...

Think about it- even without any clinical edge, if we could deal with their attacks in a more mature way(Konate/Alli/TAA)- we woulda walked away with a win.

The game at Goodison will be the same- heated atmosphere against a team and supporters who loathe us, so we'll face that problem there again. I'm sure we'll try and be prepared for it, but we'll have to wait and see.

I would just like to see Alli, VVD, Trent, Robbo and Konate at the back there. Jonesey will have had a few minutes and some training, Salah will be back to optimal, Jota will be back...

[Andy82lfc]

Hope the hangover isn’t so bad today

He often talks down to people mate, some on here like doing that from behind their keyboard, don't let it bother you (as it clearly didn't anyway!).

[jj2005]

Yesterday's result makes it mathematically impossible for Man Utd to win the league or finish ahead of Liverpool. 🥳.
Remember when that was about the heights of our ambition for a decent season?

[the_red_pill]

Yesterday's result makes it mathematically impossible for Man Utd to win the league or finish ahead of Liverpool. 🥳.
Remember when that was about the heights of our ambition for a decent season?

Thought that was 4th? (but yes- if 4th was secured... we would've taken finishing ahead of these)

[MonsLibpool]

It's annoying to no longer have it in our hands because of the permutations (not arsed reall) but:
1. All we can do is to keep winning and;
2. If City and Arsenal didn't drop silly points, it wouldn't be so tight right now. For example,  City didn't beat a midtable Chelsea side home and away (Chelsea were in poor form before both games).

[JackWard33]

It's not unlucky when you miss chances

it is

[RyanBabel19]

I understand that this will be meanginless to many but ultimately we went away from home to our bitter rivals (who are the 6th-8t best team in the league) basically destroyed them and had an incredibly unlucky day in their final third
28-9 shots... 3.67 (including a penalty) - 0.7 xg - that's pretty much as good as it gets in a game of that type

This happens to every good team a couple of times in a season .. it just really sucks it happened in that game at this point in this season

I get that its created a lot of frustration but many of the narratives and conclusions on here (and no doubt in lfc podcast land), especially about our forwards who all had bad days, will be recency based exaggerations or just be flat out wrong

If anything the performance (which was way better than the cup game) should be encouraging for the run in however the ramifications of the dropped points will make it the opposite

What moments in the final third would you say were unlucky?

[William Regal]

The simple reason he was taken off in both games is cos he played the same, stupid game both times at Old Trafford. He is a strong runner and hard worker, but the truth is, he was given the run of the park yesterday by a completely vacant United midfield. And he frequently made terrible decisions when it came time to play the ball.

I would agree that we didn't improve yesterday when Jones came on, who had an uncharacteristically poor game. But it looked like a substitution that totally made sense in the moment to me.

I dont agree at all, for the 60 minutes Szoboszlai was on we completely dominated the game, he was instrumental in leading the counter and constantly there with cutting edge overloads.

We created chance after chance after chance yesterday, the reason we didnt win was purely down to our finishing.  I think it's fair to say that we could have quite easily been 5-0 up by the time Szoboszlai was hooked and then every single persons perspective in here would be completely different.

The exact same thing happened in both Old Trafford games, we went from a team that was completely dominating the game creating many chances with Szoboszlaion the pitch, to instantly man utd having their best spell of the game as soon as Szoboszlaiwent off the pitch.

If you think that just Szoboszlai had been given run of the park against a completely vacant utd midfield, then tell me why none of our other players had the run of the park in both games when he was substituted?

I like Jones as much as the next red but yesterday that sub took all the impetus away from us, we went from Szoboszlai on the charge to Jones being extremely casual, dallying in possession, getting disposed on numerous occasions, getting the United crowd into the game with the counter attack turn overs. 

[RyanBabel19]

I dont agree at all, for the 60 minutes Szoboszlai was on we completely dominated the game, he was instrumental in leading the counter and constantly there with cutting edge overloads.

We created chance after chance after chance yesterday, the reason we didnt win was purely down to our finishing.  I think it's fair to say that we could have quite easily been 5-0 up by the time Szoboszlai was hooked and then every single persons perspective in here would be completely different.

The exact same thing happened in both Old Trafford games, we went from a team that was completely dominating the game creating many chances with Szoboszlaion the pitch, to instantly man utd having their best spell of the game as soon as Szoboszlaiwent off the pitch.

If you think that just Szoboszlai had been given run of the park against a completely vacant utd midfield, then tell me why none of our other players had the run of the park in both games when he was substituted?

I like Jones as much as the next red but yesterday that sub took all the impetus away from us, we went from Szoboszlai on the charge to Jones being extremely casual, dallying in possession, getting disposed on numerous occasions, getting the United crowd into the game with the counter attack turn overs. 

Elliott did to be honest, it’s exactly how we won a pen. He was excellent off the bench…again

[Draex]

What moments in the final third would you say were unlucky?

Nunez slipping in the first 5mins when through.