Topic: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation

[redintweed]

Bollocks?

Our net spend last decade is on the level of fucking championship teams.

The only reason we were expecting Top 4 last decade because we had the biggest massive overachiever this game has ever seen.

To expect Top 4 with the money we spend reeks of arrogance and of complete lack of awareness.

If Slot is not a massive overachiever we're in trouble.

I agree with this. If we don't get a class #6 in, we are going to struggle. City have Rodri and Arsenal have Rice, both world class players who dominate games.

We spend big on wages, but are mid table on nett spend. If the manager is not backed in the market, we are kidding ourselves to "expect" top 4. Mo and VVD aren't getting any younger and they are our biggest wage earners. VVD seems something like back to top form, but Mo has been a shadow of himself since AFCON and his injury. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest is FSG sold Mo and used the money to freshen the squad up a bit. Be very interesting to see how the fans react if they do that.

I think Slot is a good choice. I can see why he is attractive to FSG. Lets just hope he is up to the gigantic task of replacing Jurgen, the owners back him in the market (let's be honest, City and Arsenal aren't going to stand still) and the fans get onboard.

[TepidT2O]

Learnings for Slott (he won't have encountered):

The number of games we play 60+ v 40
Crazy scheduling -  Christmas and Saturday noon kick-offs after South American games on Thursday
The League cup
The Everton (and to an extent Man United) games that define their season.
Man City, Arsenal; 2 of the beat teams in Europe. And the rest of the top half probably superior to all the the Dutch League.
Different premier league rules regarding what constitutes a foul
Referees determined to be unbowed by the Pressure of Anfield
Typically xenophobic pundits, the Koeman and Ten Haag experience in the premier league hasn't done him any favours
The CL format means no dead rubbers so we could run out of steam at the business end of the season.

You'd advise him to start the players slow and keep a bit in the tank - but of course if we draw a few games early on or god forbid lose a couple he'll be under a lot of pressure - it's hard to navigate. Good luck Arne 

Plus
The pace and physicality of the PL. every new coach and player notices that.
The pundits (again) because he’s bald. Genuinely, it’s absurd. That monkey handed freak Keyes has already started
The soz of the club, it’s so so huge now. Can he cope with that on his shoulders?

[spider-neil]

Most people are focused on the forwards but if we;
a) get to the root of why we have so many injuries
b) improve our structure so we better positioned during a turnover/counterattack

We will be far better off

[spider-neil]

Also, we need to return pushing the domestic cups to the bottom of our priorities. If we identify who will start the majority of league and CL games then those players should play no part in the domestic cups until at least the semi-final. We have really talented kids and we should trust them and if we go out we go out. I think we did Arsenal a favour by kicking them out of the FA Cup as they had more time to prepare for the league.

[jepovic]

I agree with this. If we don't get a class #6 in, we are going to struggle. City have Rodri and Arsenal have Rice, both world class players who dominate games.

We spend big on wages, but are mid table on nett spend. If the manager is not backed in the market, we are kidding ourselves to "expect" top 4. Mo and VVD aren't getting any younger and they are our biggest wage earners. VVD seems something like back to top form, but Mo has been a shadow of himself since AFCON and his injury. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest is FSG sold Mo and used the money to freshen the squad up a bit. Be very interesting to see how the fans react if they do that.

I think Slot is a good choice. I can see why he is attractive to FSG. Lets just hope he is up to the gigantic task of replacing Jurgen, the owners back him in the market (let's be honest, City and Arsenal aren't going to stand still) and the fans get onboard.

This is partially because we have had a fantastic team which we tried to keep. We have spent a lot of money on retaining players like VVD and Salah, rather than selling and replacing them. If you have a team that is winning and competing for titles, that makes perfect sense. It's always a lot cheaper and lower risk to extend contracts than buying new players. For a struggling team like ManU, it makes sense to not extend any contracts but instead try to find better players.

Overall, it's mostly a good sign when you have a team where you want to keep your players.
Now we are going through a generation change of course.

[spider-neil]

I wonder how people would feel if Slot chose to develop Baj rather than buy a 6. Personally, I don't know how I would feel about that but I don't there are many quality number 6s not already at big clubs.

[killer-heels]

I wonder how people would feel if Slot chose to develop Baj rather than buy a 6.

You can only judge a squad from the start and give your opinions. I wouldnt be too happy but it could work. Its hard as right now it seems a massive risk.

[spider-neil]

You can only judge a squad from the start and give your opinions. I wouldnt be too happy but it could work. Its hard as right now it seems a massive risk.

There isn't a single must-buy number 6 on the market right now. For me that was Tchouameni and Real snapped him up. The gettable number 6s on the market either aren't tall enough, quick enough, or good enough in possession. I wasn't even that bothered with Caicedo.

[rob1966]

Would probably have to go on gardening leave for his notice period then though.

Nice little holiday then

Think the longest I've seen a director at our work do is 3 months gardening leave, so he'd be clear end of July. My own notice period is 12 weeks.

[spider-neil]

If the doctor really wanted out he could buy his way out of his contract and then ask for the same amount as a signing-on fee. But couldn't Feyenoord take him to court? Regardless, I think when someone wants to leave you let them go.

[rossipersempre]

If the doctor really wanted out he could buy his way out of his contract and then ask for the same amount as a signing-on fee. But couldn't Feyenoord take him to court? Regardless, I think when someone wants to leave you let them go.

It's not exactly essential he joins this summer is it? He'll be on a minimum 6 month notice period. So regardless of Feyenoord's position, he can join us in November. I know he came from Bayern not BVB, but Klopp had same situation with getting Andreas Kornmeyer in.

[rossipersempre]

Nice little holiday then

Think the longest I've seen a director at our work do is 3 months gardening leave, so he'd be clear end of July. My own notice period is 12 weeks. I know Dutch law is different but I can't see 6 month notice periods being a thing?

Gardening leave isn't a thing in medicine. They make you eke out every last drop of blood.

[rob1966]

Gardening leave isn't a thing in medicine. They make you eke out every last drop of blood.

Are they doctors or Vampires?

[redbyrdz]

If the doctor really wanted out he could buy his way out of his contract and then ask for the same amount as a signing-on fee. But couldn't Feyenoord take him to court? Regardless, I think when someone wants to leave you let them go.

I've never heard of anybody "buying out the reminder of their contract" outside of pro athletes. What would I owe my employer if I left now?

[Crosby Nick]

Also, we need to return pushing the domestic cups to the bottom of our priorities. If we identify who will start the majority of league and CL games then those players should play no part in the domestic cups until at least the semi-final. We have really talented kids and we should trust them and if we go out we go out. I think we did Arsenal a favour by kicking them out of the FA Cup as they had more time to prepare for the league.

I think the domestic cups are always the bottom of our priorities. It just so happens that sometimes the draw can open up for you. Especially the League Cup. We beat Leicester at home with a League Cup line up, won away at Bournemouth, think we went a little bit stronger there but then without much effort we were in the Quarter Finals with a home draw and clearly the strongest side left in. Other years we’ve had a tough away draw early and gone out without much of a whimper.

[Draex]

I wonder how people would feel if Slot chose to develop Baj rather than buy a 6. Personally, I don't know how I would feel about that but I do there there are many quality number 6 not already at big clubs.

Clearly depends on how he reacts to the build up of gametime he's currently undertaking and what sort of load he can do for the next 12 months, if he breaks down again we're left with Endo who clearly can't do 2 games a week.

[rob1966]

I agree with this. If we don't get a class #6 in, we are going to struggle. City have Rodri and Arsenal have Rice, both world class players who dominate games.

We spend big on wages, but are mid table on nett spend. If the manager is not backed in the market, we are kidding ourselves to "expect" top 4. Mo and VVD aren't getting any younger and they are our biggest wage earners. VVD seems something like back to top form, but Mo has been a shadow of himself since AFCON and his injury. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest is FSG sold Mo and used the money to freshen the squad up a bit. Be very interesting to see how the fans react if they do that.

I think Slot is a good choice. I can see why he is attractive to FSG. Lets just hope he is up to the gigantic task of replacing Jurgen, the owners back him in the market (let's be honest, City and Arsenal aren't going to stand still) and the fans get onboard.

Have you actually bothered looking at why we are mid table nett spend, seeing as we've spent £855 million under Klopp. Have you look at why Utd have a gross of £1.2bn and a nett spend over over £600 million and are struggling to make top 6? Why Chelsea has spent £2bn gross to be mid table, why Everton has spent £700 million to be fighting relegation every year or Spurs £900 million to once again fail to make CL? ADFC don't count as their owners have £800billion in the bank and funnel that into the club via non existent sponsors and companies they own

We've down the years bought excellent players for low money and then, as Jepovic says, we've spent the money on keeping them and we've also done really well in sales, £11mill for Lovren, £18m for Solanke, £23mill for Brewster, £16mill for Neco Williams, £140m for Coutinho, £12m for Hendo and £40 m for Fabinho in the past few years. Its around £560 million in sales.

Look at the Mancs, £94 million for Pogba, leaves on a free, £30m on Alexis Sanchez, goes on a free, Ronaldo cost them an arm and a leg and they cancel his contract, they let De Gea leave on a free and spend £56 million replacing him with a worse keeper, they paid £50 million for Wan Bissaka, nearly £80 million for Maguire, £86 million on Antony and now, their entire first team squad, bar Hojlund, Garnacho and Mainoo is up for sale.

[lionel_messias]

Have you actually bothered looking at why we are mid table nett spend, seeing as we've spent £855 million under Klopp. Have you look at why Utd have a gross of £1.2bn and a nett spend over over £600 million and are struggling to make top 6? Why Chelsea has spent £2bn gross to be mid table, why Everton has spent £700 million to be fighting relegation every year or Spurs £900 million to once again fail to make CL? ADFC don't count as their owners have £800billion in the bank and funnel that into the club via non existent sponsors and companies they own

We've down the years bought excellent players for low money and then, as Jepovic says, we've spent the money on keeping them and we've also done really well in sales, £11mill for Lovren, £18m for Solanke, £23mill for Brewster, £16mill for Neco Williams, £140m for Coutinho, £12m for Hendo and £40 m for Fabinho in the past few years. Its around £560 million in sales.

Look at the Mancs, £94 million for Pogba, leaves on a free, £30m on Alexis Sanchez, goes on a free, Ronaldo cost them an arm and a leg and they cancel his contract, they let De Gea leave on a free and spend £56 million replacing him with a worse keeper, they paid £50 million for Wan Bissaka, nearly £80 million for Maguire, £86 million on Antony and now, their entire first team squad, bar Hojlund, Garnacho and Mainoo is up for sale.

Coutinho, the biggest Golden Goose in FSG history. One day hopefully a whole chapter dedicated to him in Klopp's memoirs.

Without the £130 million, where would Klopp and FSG have go to?

[Draex]

Coutinho, the biggest Golden Goose in FSG history. One day hopefully a whole chapter dedicated to him in Klopp's memoirs.

Without the £130 million, where would Klopp and FSG have go to?

It's a perpetuating circle though isn't it, it took the undervalued scouting and signing to give to a brilliant coach to turn into world class to be able to be sold for huge profits to fund even better players. I see it as win win for all areas of the club personally.

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

Dortmund haven't outperformed teams who have spent more than them since Klopp left.

They've finished in the Champions League spots every season since Klopp left, and most commonly 2nd?

[rob1966]

It's a perpetuating circle though isn't it, it took the undervalued scouting and signing to give to a brilliant coach to turn into world class to be able to be sold for huge profits to fund even better players. I see it as win win for all areas of the club personally.

Same here. Its like when Wheeler Dealers started with £900, bought a car and turned that through buying and selling into a £45,000 Ferrari.

The fact remains, our "low nett spend" dick swinging contest failures only brought Klopp

2 x League Cups
1 x FA Cup
1 x Champions League
1 x Premier League
1 x Super Cup
1 x CWC

Its only being up against a nation state that stopped us winning 4 or 5 Leagues and getting Real Madrid in two CL Finals that cost us more trophies.

[kaesarsosei]

I don't think top4/CL is a must in Slot's first season.

Europa qualification (either via league or a domestic cup)
Qualify out of the group in the CL

These are my minimums, nothing too harsh.

My biggest concern is injuries/fatigue. He will have to manage nearly 50% more games and in a more intensive league, plus the step up from Europa to CL. Can our squad physically handle his style in these circumstances?

[killer-heels]

First job for Slot is to sort this defence out. Lets be honest, Klopp has lost control of this for practically two seasons now and cant seem to make us more solid or less susceptible to a break. Any adversity and we let in a goal.

[killer-heels]

I don't think top4/CL is a must in Slot's first season.

Europa qualification (either via league or a domestic cup)
Qualify out of the group in the CL

These are my minimums, nothing too harsh.

My biggest concern is injuries/fatigue. He will have to manage nearly 50% more games and in a more intensive league, plus the step up from Europa to CL. Can our squad physically handle his style in these circumstances?

Sorry but why are fans now accepting of not qualifying for the CL? Postecoglu has made Spurs better in season 1. Do Villa now have a better squad? Who else is there thats going to be better considering Man United and Chelsea may have new managers themselves?

Find some of this acceptance of being shite absolutely baffling.

[NickoH]

Sorry but why are fans now accepting of not qualifying for the CL? Postecoglu has made Spurs better in season 1. Do Villa now have a better squad? Who else is there thats going to be better considering Man United and Chelsea may have new managers themselves?

Find some of this acceptance of being shite absolutely baffling.

Outside the top 4 would definitely be looked on as a failure

[rossipersempre]

It's only being up against a nation state that stopped us winning 4 or 5 Leagues and getting Real Madrid in two CL Finals that cost us more trophies.

A tale of two goalkeepers sadly. Karius in Kiev and fucking Courtois in Paris.

Perversely, the only CL final where I think our struggle with the Abu Dhabi cheats actually looked like it had a debilitating effect, was our win against Spurs.

[NickoH]

Perversely, the only CL final where I think our struggle with the Abu Dhabi cheats actually looked like it had a debilitating effect, was our win against Spurs.

I also think being about 3000 degrees in Madrid that day/night also had something to do with that

[Lisan Al Gaib]

First job for Slot is to sort this defence out. Lets be honest, Klopp has lost control of this for practically two seasons now and cant seem to make us more solid or less susceptible to a break. Any adversity and we let in a goal.

Its in part due to our obsession with inverting the full backs. It forces the two of our central midfielders out wide and makes it difficult to control games from midfield with an added bonus for the opposition of having our whole right defensive side covered by just one defender when they break on the attack. I'm hoping he stops it but from what I've read he's a fan of it.

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

Its in part due to our obsession with inverting the full backs. It forces the two of our central midfielders out wide and makes it difficult to control games from midfield with an added bonus for the opposition of having our whole right defensive side covered by just one defender when they break on the attack. I'm hoping he stops it but from what I've read he's a fan of it.

You say this, but the only reason we started inverting the right back in the first place was to try and make us less vulnerable to counter attacks and to give us more control.

It does annoy me that we never went back to proper back four once we'd stopped the slide. I can understand us inverting Trent when he plays, but doing it with Gomez/Bradley/Robertson just blows my mind.

[rossipersempre]

"I hope Liverpool is interested in Feyenoord players, and I am an example it can work!"

[rossipersempre]

I also think being about 3000 degrees in Madrid that day/night also had something to do with that

Combined with the 3-week long break after the end of a brutal exhausting PL season.

[Draex]

Same here. Its like when Wheeler Dealers started with £900, bought a car and turned that through buying and selling into a £45,000 Ferrari.

The fact remains, our "low nett spend" dick swinging contest failures only brought Klopp

2 x League Cups
1 x FA Cup
1 x Champions League
1 x Premier League
1 x Super Cup
1 x CWC

Its only being up against a nation state that stopped us winning 4 or 5 Leagues and getting Real Madrid in two CL Finals that cost us more trophies.

100% remove cheaty from the equation and what FSG, Edwards, Klopp would have achieved here beyond the great trophies we did win it would be one of the greatest spells in world football ever. Cheaty have distorted reality.

[Avens]

Sorry but why are fans now accepting of not qualifying for the CL? Postecoglu has made Spurs better in season 1. Do Villa now have a better squad? Who else is there thats going to be better considering Man United and Chelsea may have new managers themselves?

Find some of this acceptance of being shite absolutely baffling.

It's not about accepting being shite, it's about preaching patience. Long term, I'm sure everyone expects titles and trophies, but laying the foundations can be hard in the first year of managing a team. Understanding that and not demanding instant success used to be the norm. I think the less obvious, more intangible aspects are what are important in the first season. It's anything but throwing in the towel in terms of our future success, but being too cut throat with managers harms continuity and is counterproductive.

[MonsLibpool]

Sorry but why are fans now accepting of not qualifying for the CL? Postecoglu has made Spurs better in season 1. Do Villa now have a better squad? Who else is there thats going to be better considering Man United and Chelsea may have new managers themselves?

Find some of this acceptance of being shite absolutely baffling.

CL qualification is the bare minimum so it's fair to expect it. Anything less is failure, no two ways about it.

Even the money wouldn't be happy with missing out regardless.

[dis_1]

I'm sure he'll be recieving of more patience if he's honest in his assessment of progress too. If he starts gaslighting the fan base, like some managers do, then we're not going to swallow that.
That is where i see the challenges for him, handling the "big club" mentality and attitude. It's where Roy accelerated the burning of any goodwill that was leftover after his appointment.
Should be interesting to see if Slot grows or perishes under the spotlight, if he flourishes then targets and expectations are more malleable.

[killer-heels]

It's not about accepting being shite, it's about preaching patience. Long term, I'm sure everyone expects titles and trophies, but laying the foundations can be hard in the first year of managing a team. Understanding that and not demanding instant success used to be the norm. I think the less obvious, more intangible aspects are what are important in the first season. It's anything but throwing in the towel in terms of our future success, but being too cut throat with managers harms continuity and is counterproductive.

Explain to me these foundations? Good players? Pressing style? A club geared towards success? Backroom staff?

What are these foundations that we need to bed in that will take a supposed good manager over a year or two to bed in?

Nobody is demanding success, but as Klopp said early on, CL qualification is the minimum standard for our club.

[rob1966]

A tale of two goalkeepers sadly. Karius in Kiev and fucking Courtois in Paris.

Perversely, the only CL final where I think our struggle with the Abu Dhabi cheats actually looked like it had a debilitating effect, was our win against Spurs.

And two assaults by Ramos

[MonsLibpool]

And two assaults by Ramos

We were the better team in both finals and we should have won at least one.

In the second one, they only had 1? shot on target. It's a familiar theme of us not putting chances away.

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

Explain to me these foundations? Good players? Pressing style? A club geared towards success? Backroom staff?

What are these foundations that we need to bed in that will take a supposed good manager over a year or two to bed in?

Nobody is demanding success, but as Klopp said early on, CL qualification is the minimum standard for our club.

If we were to finish 6th as an example, it probably depends as to how we got there as to how Slot will be received and how much pressure he will be under. If we're 6th for the entire season without any improvement, then there will obviously be calls for his head. However, if we end up 6th after being absolutely shit for the first half the season then going on title winning form for the 2nd half of the season then there will be much positivity around him.

One of the thing about Rodgers' first season was that we showed clear signs of improvement, which gave him some grace despite us not finishing in the top 4. Dalglish the year before finished in a similar place but we got worse as the season progressed.

[Henry Chinaski]

First job for Slot is to sort this defence out. Lets be honest, Klopp has lost control of this for practically two seasons now and cant seem to make us more solid or less susceptible to a break. Any adversity and we let in a goal.

A true 6 would be nice, for starters. I think many of our defensive issues stem from a lack of players in that position, or players in that position who shouldn't really be playing every match / are still adjusting to the league (like Endo). Saying that Klopp plays without this kind of players is nonsense. Just look at Fabinho.