Topic: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation

[bornandbRED]

Funny that De Zerbi was flavour of the month akin to Alonso, a year ago. 

[istvan kozma]

You really think thats why he was hated in Bayern?

How's that turned out for Bayern?

[Fitzy.]

That's what I mean by glorious failure though - put up a good fight and account of himself, but ultimately failed to succeed past where was expected. Glorious failure in that he tried and fought and lost

Doing what he has done at Brighton is good but does it qualify him for the Liverpool job? I have worries about limitations he has shown which are particularly troublesome for a club like us and the issues we gave in our games and our aims

It was expected that Brighton get into Europe having never done so previously?

[William Regal]

Bayern are in a league where they will walk a title in most given years, it's like Mancini or Pellegrini getting the city job, they will likely win the title no matter the season. Comparing that to the Liverpool job is not even in the same solar system.

Right, so what is it that's put De Zerbi at the top of Bayerns manager list?

[killer-heels]

How's that turned out for Bayern?

That doesnt excuse what and who he is. Riding a skateboard is one of his more endearing features.

[Barefoot Doctor]

I just looked at Brighton's line up against Roma in the first leg and not surprised they got battered. A midfield of Gross and Gilmour, Danny Welbeck up front, Dunk and Van Hecke in defence... I just don't think they're a particularly good side on paper - especially if they don't start Estupinan, Mitoma and Ferguson which was the case there.

Again, not advocating for De Zerbi but I think he's been a bit let down by the recruitment side of the house. They got a fortune for Caicedo, as well as a decent sum for Mac, but don't look to have strengthened all that well.

There's very real worries about their defence but how of that would just automatically improve should he have our squad at his disposal?

[killer-heels]

Right, so what is it that's put De Zerbi at the top of Bayerns manager list?

They go through an insane number of managers. Law of averages means that they will target a whole group of managers not deemed good enough.

[B0151?]

Funny that De Zerbi was flavour of the month akin to Alonso, a year ago.

I kind of get what you mean in that there were people hyping De Zerbi who now wouldn't be so keen. But don't think you can say someone who is probably about to be the first non Bayern manager to win Bundesliga since Klopp is just flavour of month. What De Zerbi has done at Brighton is very good, what Alonso is doing at Leverkusen is legendary

[istvan kozma]

That doesnt excuse what and who he is. Riding a skateboard is one of his more endearing features.

You don't have a clue 'what or who he is', stop with the nonsense.

[Caston]

Personally I’m very calm about our manager situation.

I know everyone is a step down from Klopp, but the next manager is inheriting a very good squad, with a good balance of experience and youth (just need to sort a few contracts in the summer, which hopefully we do).

I don’t think we’re going to all of a sudden turn shit. We’re basically back in the CL, should have some money to make some signings so I’m excited to see where we go under a new manager with new ideas.

[Clint Eastwood]

Not my first choice but the De Zerbi disrespect is real.

And justified. Not only incapable of the job, but just not a Liverpool manager. You can tell what type of characters would succeed here and what types wouldn’t. He falls into the latter.

Can’t warm to the guy at all.

[Stockholm Syndrome]

It was expected that Brighton get into Europe having never done so previously?

It wasn't expected they get in. It was probably expected that they get through the group stage given the team they had and probably expected they lose to Roma.

Lol some perspective here, what is De Zerbi's net spend at Brighton?

Is playing good football enough?  On a hugely negative spend he is about to give Brighton their 2 highest finishes in their entire history - 6th place, and now 8th admits an injury crisis to his best players, as well as selling his 2 best players in the summer.

You make it sound like winning 50% of your games whilst playing great football under those conditions is a bad thing.  Genuine question,  if Klopp or Guadiola took over Brightons squad this season and had estupinian, match, mitoma, encido out injured for the majority of the season, where do you think Brighton would have finished this year?

I would expect Klopp and Guardiola to do better as they are truly elite managers.

Taking it by another thing then: as a young manager, inexperienced at a top team and the expectations that come with that, of every game oppositions playing as hard as possible as this is the biggest game of their season, and having to be flexible as a manager. He hasn't experienced that yet.

With that in mind that he lacks the experience, how good do you expect him to do next year, or the year after? I would probably say top 4 would be an achievement for the initial years with him.

It is easy to play good football with lower expectations. If De Zerbi came here he would have to prove himself and grow a lot more as a manager. I think all of them would, but I do have concerns over some of the results his Brighton side get, mainly because it doesn't seem like he adapts to his opponent much and his defensive work seems not brilliant

[mattD]

You really think thats why he was hated in Bayern?

I don't know how many times we have to repeat this to the Nagalsmann fanboys; skateboarding into work is only the tip of the iceberg.

The guy cheated on his wife with a Bayern journalist, talked shit about players behind their back and was the reason for a dressing room revolt against him.

Skateboard or not, the man is a massive C-U-Next-Tuesday.

[Jookie]

Is it that strange? De Zerbi has delivered Brighton's two best seasons (I think), got them into Europe and through the group stages of the Europa. Think they're probably underperforming this season but still eighth, having lost three very good players for them in Colwill, Caicedo and Mac Allister. He also has a decent track record at other clubs.

Not advocating for him but equally not hard to see why the club would look to him ahead of O'Neil, who is still very new to his managerial career.

Also, perhaps more importantly, Richard Hughes literally sacked him less than a year ago.

I don't necessarily want De Zerbi but there's nuance to the drop off from Brighton this season. Loss of key players and European football being the main ones. They are still 8th and in with a shout of European qualification for next season. That's pretty remarkable for Brighton.

I think people aren't remembering or giving him credit for his achievements at Sassuolo. 2 8th place finished and I think their highest ever Serie A points total under his managerial tenure. His record at Shaktar was also OK until he left.

My biggest concern with De Zerbi is the defensive side of things. His teams, across his career, have scored loads but also shipped loads. Is that because he's implementing a style with lesser players? Or his is style of play fundamentally flawed from a defensive perspective?

[peachybum]

Funny that De Zerbi was flavour of the month akin to Alonso, a year ago.

Most still really like his flavour. I mean i fully expect him to be managing Liverpool. Bayern, Barcelona or another top team that comes available next season. Everyone inside football knows he's doing a great job with that budget or losing the players he has. And he plays great football. Which matters! Antionio Conte has a cabinet full of trophies but nobody wants to see his shitty football.

De Zerbi was really unlucky that the war in Ukraine forced he to leave Shaktar because he would have won a lot, made big strides in European competition and maybe have an even bigger rep than he has now turning water into wine on the south coast.

[Dim Glas]

You don't have a clue 'what or who he is', stop with the nonsense.

it’s pretty public why he was sacked at Bayern.  It isn’t a great look very publicly dumping your missus for a Bayern journo, causing a lot of mistrust within the club and with his own players.

Hopefully he’ll mature a bit,  as I’m one of the few who does rate him as a coach it seems!

[Redley]

Now Thomas fucking Frank??

Are people on a wind up in here or what? FML.

It's genuinely the sort of shit we would say in a man united forum on potential managers.

I don’t think most are…but that one is for sure

[killer-heels]

You don't have a clue 'what or who he is', stop with the nonsense.

Its clear public knowledge of exactly who the guy is.

[Andy82lfc]

This reeks of arrogance. Jurgen Klopp, having won nothing, came to Dortmund from Mainz (who were relegated under him) to take them to two titles and a Champions League final.

There's no obvious necessary level a manager has to be at to be in the running in my opinion, it's not necessarily a tougher job at Sporting than it is at Brentford. What we should be looking at is any manager who's consistently been overachieving over a number of years, in my opinion. That brings us to Frank almost immediately.

Honestly mate I think you are off your head if you think Frank is a possible next Klopp, and also equality wrong to diminish Amorim achieving what he has and comparing it to Brentford.

I know people are gutted about Alonso but Frank and De Zerbi is just absurd for me. Genuinely can't believe their names are being mentioned. 

[Barefoot Doctor]

On Nagelsmann - I can believe he was unpopular at Bayern and the players didn't like him... but if so, what the hell were the DFB thinking making him Germany boss when there's presumably going to be several Bayern players in the Euro 2024 squad?!

[killer-heels]

Honestly mate I think you are off your head if you think Frank is a possible next Klopp, and also equality wrong to diminish Amorim achieving what he has and comparing it to Brentford.

I know people are gutted about Alonso but Frank and De Zerbi is just absurd for me. Genuinely can't believe there names are being mentioned. 

I think the question about all this is what is the expectation on the new manager. In a way maybe if we were shit, it would be easier for the new guy as fans would give him time. Its a nice problem that he has a good squad but that will mean that we will expecting a manager, most of whom dont have any record of winning stuff, to start winning stuff straight away.

[istvan kozma]

Its clear public knowledge of exactly who the guy is.

So why is he the German national team manager?

[Dim Glas]

On Nagelsmann - I can believe he was unpopular at Bayern and the players didn't like him... but if so, what the hell were the DFB thinking making him Germany boss when there's presumably going to be several Bayern players in the Euro 2024 squad?!

it’s working out well for the DFB so far though!
Maybe not such a huge deal at national level, he’ll see them only 3 times a year, and for a (up to a) month long tournament.

Last squad only had 3 Bayern players in by the way!  More Stuttgart than Bayern players in there.

(And one of the players is Kimmich - who was basically always on his side)

[killer-heels]

So why is he the German national team manager?

There is only a few Bayern players. Maybe those that are there dont mind the c*nt?

[William Regal]

Ok let's look at this from another angle, name me a manager in world football who'd manage  Brighton for 2 seasons, lost white, burn, bissouma, trossard, caicedo, mac Allister, Colwill, then lose estupinian, march , mitoma, enciso for the majority of the season and still finish 6th and 8th (the 2 highest finishes in brightons history) whilst playing open, attacking, expansive football, all whilst having a massively negative transfer budget?

I dont mind people not wanting De Zerbi but some of the out of context, disrespectful bollocks talked to try and discredit in here is laughable.

[Dim Glas]

There is only a few Bayern players. Maybe those that are there dont mind the c*nt?

Kimmich was always strongly in support of Nagelsmann.

People do need to remember that the soap opera of FC Hollywood isn’t always the best way to judge a coach either.

[Keith Lard]

Amorim gives me similar vibes to when we signed Salah. Not sure why, as I know it’s a bit weird comparing a player signing with a potential new manager.

[killer-heels]

Amorim gives me similar vibes to when we signed Salah. Not sure why, as I know it’s a bit weird comparing a player signing with a potential new manager.

Its the beard.

[killer-heels]

Kimmich was always strongly in support of Nagelsmann.

People do need to remember that the soap opera of FC Hollywood isn’t always the best way to judge a coach either.

Grade A c*nt liking a fellow Grade A c*nt shocker.

[number 168]

Honestly mate I think you are off your head if you think Frank is a possible next Klopp, and also equality wrong to diminish Amorim achieving what he has and comparing it to Brentford.

I know people are gutted about Alonso but Frank and De Zerbi is just absurd for me. Genuinely can't believe their names are being mentioned.

The Liverpool manager is different to other posts in that he has to be somebody who the crowd takes to, feel he is one of us. Shankly created that bond and Jurgen has, if anything, enhanced it. That is why Rodgers and particularly Hodgson seemed to many as ill fits. I guess FSG understand that now and will factor that into their thinking. Of those mentioned as possibles Amorim seems to have a character that might fit but I guess success is the determing factor no matter who gets the job.

[DG]

Honestly mate I think you are off your head if you think Frank is a possible next Klopp, and also equality wrong to diminish Amorim achieving what he has and comparing it to Brentford.

I know people are gutted about Alonso but Frank and De Zerbi is just absurd for me. Genuinely can't believe their names are being mentioned.

I think maybe we are looking at it differently? Winning the title with Real Madrid isn't necessarily a greater achievement than staying up Rayo, if you catch my drift. When looking at players, you look at the level they're playing at, but when it comes to managers, I think it's not as clear cut.

All teams have a certain expected levels, based on the players at their disposal primarily, but also budget etc. And then you have teams punching slightly or clearly above their expected level, and vice versa. In my opinion, we should be looking at essentially any manager that has consistently had his team in the former category, especially over time.

Now these managers are quite few and far between, but without a doubt Thomas Frank is one of them. Also, the level he's at isn't Ole at Molde, he's been consistently overachieving in the same league that we're in. I'm not saying there aren't arguments against it, but to completely dismiss a consistently overachieving manager like that is folly in my opinion.

Last, I also don't like or necessarily believe in possession based football. Thomas Frank is a more direct, pressing manager, which is more to my liking. Obviously that is enteriely subjective. But his consistent overachieving over a number of years it's not. It's a fact, and a rare one at that.

[Butcher Knife Roberto]

Strong beard game, check. Intense, pressing footy, check. Overturned the big guns and won a first title in donkeys years, check. Charismatic guy who the players and fans will warm to, check. He won't be Klopp 2.0, no one ever will be, but Amorim passes all the tests for me. If he has a brain in his head he will know Chelsea is just batshit crazy, and Barca is almost as bad in the post-Messi era. His Sporting team are pretty good, but my hair stands on end thinking what he could do with our squad.

Alonso was a romantic idea, but Amorim has more experience even though he is younger and going in for him makes sense. Mind you, this wouldn't be the first time clubs have fed bullshit to the media, and we all know that LFC have a track record of surprising us as well as using the media to their advantage. Expect more twists in this one for sure.

[Andy82lfc]

I think the question about all this is what is the expectation on the new manager. In a way maybe if we were shit, it would be easier for the new guy as fans would give him time. Its a nice problem that he has a good squad but that will mean that we will expecting a manager, most of whom dont have any record of winning stuff, to start winning stuff straight away.

I mean, absolutely anybody in world football will be a downgrade on Klopp, but at least if he is replaced by someone who at the very minimum knows what it takes to win against the odds, to work with much lesser means and still collect trophies, then that would put them on good standing. If someone is brought in with zero record of any of that then with the expectations the pressure to do something they have absolutely no knowledge of ever doing will be massive.

[killer-heels]

The Liverpool manager is different to other posts in that he has to be somebody who the crowd takes to, feel he is one of us. Shankly created that bond and Jurgen has, if anything, enhanced it. That is why Rodgers and particularly Hodgson seemed to many as ill fits. I guess FSG understand that now and will factor that into their thinking. Of those mentioned as possibles Amorim seems to have a character that might fit but I guess success is the determing factor no matter who gets the job.

There is a possibility all that isnt factored in. There is a possibility that now the nerds have taken over, that they think they can operate with that system of having a plug in coach whilst the nerds churn away and run the place. Edwards must have been promised quite a bit of power in that sense and its interesting how such a position was never offered before.

[RyanBabel19]

Grade A c*nt liking a fellow Grade A c*nt shocker.

What have these people actually done for the criticism thrown about?

[Redley]

What have these people actually done for the criticism thrown about?

I think Kimmich might have gone to work on roller blades?

[B0151?]

I trust in the club and think we're in good position for a good coach to do well. But Amorim does seem to tick the most boxes. Great young hungry coach who has overachieved and won things, and shown he can rebound after bad season.

[Jookie]

Genuinely can't believe their names are being mentioned. 

I wouldn't want Frank or De Zerbi personally. But in De Zerbi's case I wouldn;t be surprised if he ends up at one of Liverpool, Barcelona or Bayern this summer. He's one of the most attractive candidates out there.

In terms of Frank, I don't think he's an option but you can understand why people might suggest him when there's no outstanding candidates.

People don;t like Nagglesman. People don't like De Zerbi. People don;t like Frank or O'Neil.

Who do people realistically want? I suspect people are saying Amorim due to lack of exposure. He's not managed a mid-table PL team. He's not failed at a t big club, like Bayern. He has less baggage than those other options, mainly due to lack of exposure. Does that make him a better manager?

Really like to hear who you would suggest because I think the potential being suggested are some of the best options out there. Even if they seem underwhelming.

[Dim Glas]

I think Kimmich might have gone to work on roller blades?

 

Kimmich has just got a punchable face! He’s a classic ‘love him if he was on your team’ type players. Arrogant, gobby, irritating, snide etc etc etc.

[Andy82lfc]

I think maybe we are looking at it differently? Winning the title with Real Madrid isn't necessarily a greater achievement than staying up Rayo, if you catch my drift. When looking at players, you look at the level they're playing at, but when it comes to managers, I think it's not as clear cut.

All teams have a certain expected levels, based on the players at their disposal primarily, but also budget etc. And then you have teams punching slightly or clearly above their expected level, and vice versa. In my opinion, we should be looking at essentially any manager that has consistently had his team in the former category, especially over time.

Now these managers are quite few and far between, but without a doubt Thomas Frank is one of them. Also, the level he's at isn't Ole at Molde, he's been consistently overachieving in the same league that we're in. I'm not saying there aren't arguments against it, but to completely dismiss a consistently overachieving manager like that is folly in my opinion.

Last, I also don't like or necessarily believe in possession based football. Thomas Frank is a more direct, pressing manager, which is more to my liking. Obviously that is enteriely subjective. But his consistent overachieving over a number of years it's not. It's a fact, and a rare one at that.

Honestly mate, I get most of what you are saying and understand they are good managers, I just think the gamble would be insane, just like Potter going to Chelsea it would be a massive punt and following Klopp even more insane. Unlike Amorim they have never proven they can take a team with less means and win anything, they've done well, but have no experience of doing anything like that.