Author Topic: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation  (Read 521778 times)

Offline Stockholm Syndrome

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #6240 on: March 29, 2024, 08:09:33 am »
The context you have to apply with Amorim is the model is to sell the best players season on season. Ugarte and Paulinha sold and he has still delivered results.

Yeah he did.

He would be coming in to a different model in a bigger league with bigger players, and maybe the biggest challenge in football history in City ahead of him.

While what he has done at Sporting is great it doesn't say if he can meet that challenge or even definitively say he is right for us, as what he has had in Sporting in terms of size, club structure, and level of expectation in all competitions is fundamentally different than us. He might be but he might not, and there's more risk to it than Klopp or even Rafa when we got him.

I'd be expecting Top 4 from him for the first 2 or 3 years before then mounting a serious challenge, and anything beyond that is going above expectations.

He is young even by young managers standards, and not managed a team like us or a team at this level, I think it would be foolish to think he can slot in and challenge because he has won the Portuguese league
« Last Edit: March 29, 2024, 08:13:05 am by Stockholm Syndrome »

Offline Fromola

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #6241 on: March 29, 2024, 08:12:25 am »
You do realise Alonso is the least tactical fit of all the managers linked yes?

As I said above, we might not have gone for him anyway.

Tactically though he could have come in and made a few signings to make it fit more to what he wants, it wouldn't be that far off.

Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season

Offline spider-neil

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #6242 on: March 29, 2024, 08:16:51 am »
Amorim
Counter-pressing style of play - like us
Plays 3-4-3 (box midfield)
Great bringing through youth
Great man manager
Very good at setting up a defence

I think we'd need a left-centre back but other than that there wouldn't be a big turnover of players as most of our players suit his style of play.

No sour grapes but I'm starting to prefer him to Alonso because out-and-out possession football bores the shit out of me. I feel that every time I watch City and when I used to watch Barca under Pep and Spain under Del Bosque.

Offline Draex

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #6243 on: March 29, 2024, 08:17:22 am »
As I said above, we might not have gone for him anyway.

Tactically though he could have come in and made a few signings to make it fit more to what he wants, it wouldn't be that far off.

Alonso is very similar to sted and his clone.

why do you keep saying things like we are going back to a Rodgers level manager, do you actually believe that? No one available is Klopps level, we get that, he was a unicorn, that’s why he got more power to keep sprinkling his magic formula for success. We know this and that’s why we are building an elite back room to support a younger manager to build up to Klopps level, so we don’t need Klopp mark 2, we need someone who can grow into their own version of Klopp with the right support.

Offline HardworkDedication

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #6244 on: March 29, 2024, 08:18:22 am »
Yeah he did.

He would be coming in to a different model in a bigger league with bigger players, and maybe the biggest challenge in football history in City ahead of him.

While what he has done at Sporting is great it doesn't say if he can meet that challenge or even definitively say he is right for us, as what he has had in Sporting in terms of size, club structure, and level of expectation in all competitions is fundamentally different than us. He might be but he might not, and there's more risk to it than Klopp or even Rafa when we got him.

I'd be expecting Top 4 from him for the first 2 or 3 years before then mounting a serious challenge, and anything beyond that is going above expectations.

He is young even by young managers standards, and not managed a team like us or a team at this level, I think it would be foolish to think he can slot in and challenge because he has won the Portuguese league

You could say the same thing about Alonso. Not sure why you seem connvinced Alonso would be a shoo-in to slot in immediately. He has less experience than Amorim as well.

Offline vblfc

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #6245 on: March 29, 2024, 08:22:38 am »
Oh. I must admit I have little enthusiasm fullstop. I think Klopp is a once in a lifetime manager, truly irreplaceable. I could muster some enthusiasm for Alonso because of the connection and his performance at Bayern, but even that was a stretch.

I can honestly say I have zero interest in the other candidates. I will back them to the hilt, but I can't muster any excitement.

I have little knowledge of the game, so it is purely heart. It seems some of the more knowledgeable posters here are not too concerned, that is something at least, I hope they are right.
I know “once in a lifetime” is just a saying but, to give some hope and perspective, that banner on the Kop, with some of our great managers on it, were all in my lifetime.  So whilst it comes and goes a bit with managers, we have mostly done much better than ok in my lifetime.  It’s been my experience that, if we get good “raw material”’ for a manager then we (more times than most) mould that into something solid. It’s part of what makes us special. The elements of that raw material are probably what matter most, experience for sure but also a mixture of technical ability and the strength of personality and the ability to connect to the culture of and people around our club. Stay positive.

Offline AndyMuller

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #6246 on: March 29, 2024, 08:33:40 am »
Please no De Zerbi.

Offline Stockholm Syndrome

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #6247 on: March 29, 2024, 08:44:54 am »
You could say the same thing about Alonso. Not sure why you seem connvinced Alonso would be a shoo-in to slot in immediately. He has less experience than Amorim as well.

Alonso would be the same yeah. I don't think that can be argued. What can be said is the level of success Alonso is looking to get at Leverkusen is a significantly greater overachievement that Amorim at Sporting - he has a team that's never won anything significant before and looking to win a treble while not losing a single game.

While Alonso was still an option I always thought of Amorim being someone we don't know if he could make the jump from Sporting to Liverpool as it's a big difference and a much harder job (every team he will face, even the worst ones in the league, are closer to the best 4 teams in Portugal in quality).

While Alonso someone we don't know if he can do this consistently. Both would have to be given time and lower expectations for next year.

Amorim is a question of seeing if he can belong at this level, Alonso is a question of if he's more than a single season blip

Amorim is my top choice now, but I'm not going to kid myself that he's the perfect fit and it's going to be a seamless transition, we are most likely going to be worse with him in charge next year and for the next few years.

Amorim I think should be viewed as a 3 to 5 year project and seeing how he grows as a manager in that time, and if he is going to be a manager to have us challenging in the future, or if his ceiling is below that

Offline MD1990

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #6248 on: March 29, 2024, 08:47:05 am »
De Zerbi to Bayern. Amorim to us looks the most likely atm

Hughes did try to hire De Zerbi so its for sure between those 2

Quote
It’s not true that I don’t think about it. But, usually, I do what makes me happy and right now, that’s to be where I am,” he said (via Daily Mail).

“One day, I will come back to Italy. I don’t know when but when I made the choice to go to Shakhtar I did it because I wanted to find a way outside Italy. Without going into too many details, there were some things in Italy I didn’t like. I decided to do something else.

doesnt sound like De Zerbi is going back to Serie A anytime soon
« Last Edit: March 29, 2024, 08:49:47 am by MD1990 »

Offline spider-neil

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #6249 on: March 29, 2024, 08:48:13 am »
The downside of not getting Alonso is Alonso would have united the entire fanbase behind and if things were going tits up you'd expect the fanbase to have more patience with him.

Offline Garlic Red

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #6250 on: March 29, 2024, 08:49:05 am »
Some of my thoughts on the candidates and what I like/worry about them on what very limited knowledge I have of them and their careers.

Amorim: Has won a title. Has over-performed everywhere he’s managed. Develops younger players, has shown an ability to recover from a poor season, has experience in Europe but hasn’t had a deep run. My worry is can he manage elite-level players? We all hear stories of managers from smaller clubs coming to big clubs and struggling to get their message across to senior players. On the flip side, his playing style doesn’t appear to be drastically different to ours. Seems like one of the brightest young managers in the game, but does he need another club before us?

De Zerbi: reputation within the game as one of the brightest thinkers currently about. Everyone that’s played under him can’t speak highly enough of him. His Brighton sides have either battered us or given us really tough games since he’s been here. Underlying numbers are brilliant. Develops younger and older players. I worry a little like Amorim above, can he get that message across to players like Mo and Virgil? I think he could be brilliant for players like Szoboszlai and Curtis, he’ll take them to another level, but I do worry how he’ll use someone like Darwin who thrives when the game’s played at our pace. He might end up scoring more goals as we may begin to craft clearer chances, he might go the other way because he’s not as involved and receiving the ball early which he thrives off. He’s had some woeful results here and there but have to keep reminding myself it’s Brighton he’s managing. Has them playing really strong football for what they spend. Is playing good football enough to get you the biggest job in the country?

Nagelsmann: Has won titles and managed for years in the CL. Was considered the next great coach a few years ago. Had a mixed time of it at Bayern, achieved great results but never seemed to win anyone over there and had a couple of issues off the field (affairs, skateboards). Context of it being Bayern who haven’t settled since Pep left despite immense success. Has experience managing elite players, however the stories go he was actually too demanding and asked too much of the Bayern players, or he wasn’t clear enough. Do our lads thrive because we have such a clear way of playing and we do that to its very optimum? Will our lads struggle if a manager is trying to coach 2-3 systems to offer the flexibility throughout games rather than focusing on the one like we mainly have done under Jurgen? Or has he learned from that experience and gone back to basics? Seems a bit of a divvy, wasn’t impressed by his Leipzig sides when we played them and I watched them. Felt very 7Hag like when he went to Bayern and took Sabitzer with him who’s a pudding, so not sure on his ability to judge a player.

Offline MD1990

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #6251 on: March 29, 2024, 08:51:22 am »
De Zerbi constantly rotates the team. Probably had to with the injuries but you dont what line up he will go with
He overdoes it imo

Offline Andar

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #6252 on: March 29, 2024, 08:51:55 am »
I wasn't all in on Alonso to the extent not getting him would colour my expectations for next season. Heck, the more I read about Amorim the more he is becoming my preferred choice.

The more Utd fans read about Ten Hag, the more they wanted him too.

Offline killer-heels

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #6253 on: March 29, 2024, 08:52:46 am »
It's good we've got the structure in place now but there needs to be an acceptance that the manager is the most important person at the club,  not the nerds.

It doesn't matter how good your scouting and data is, if the manager isn't up to it. Look at the Rodgers years. The wrong manager will make everyone look bad, the right manager makes everyone look good (obviously Klopp).

We need a manager who is the right tactical fit for the squad as well. Rodgers clearly wasn't and it's similar with Ten Hag at United who came in off the back of playing the Ajax way, yet United are still the same sit in and counter attack team they've been for ages.

I agree with that, lets not put the nerds above their station.

Offline smicer07

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #6254 on: March 29, 2024, 08:53:01 am »
Not arsed really given Alonso's lack of experience. Wouldn't be surprised if he had a crap season next season and both us and Bayern will have moved on.

Offline spider-neil

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #6255 on: March 29, 2024, 08:53:21 am »
The more Utd fans read about Ten Hag, the more they wanted him too.

What are you going to do if (when) we don't get Alonso?

Offline Andar

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #6256 on: March 29, 2024, 08:59:18 am »
What are you going to do if (when) we don't get Alonso?

I've accepted it. Promised myself that im going to take in and enjoy the rest of this season. I've been taking it for granted and will now embrace the last few months.

Out of the remaining candidates, I'm not too confident title challenges or CL finals will be a guarantee in the future. So it would be wise to enjoy what we have now.

Offline Stockholm Syndrome

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #6257 on: March 29, 2024, 09:01:38 am »
I again say this with the line that he is my first choice.

I think first year Amorim here looks like Ange's first year at Spurs - exciting football, some string of wins and big wins, some string of loses and bad loses, some tactical naivety, and a top 4 challenge all said.

How we look the following years will determine his time here

I think we should set our expectations accordingly. We may not be winning much for a little while so have to focus on growth year on year for a bit. Like we did with Klopp, although that was going from a low point where as this is going from a pretty damn high point as a club
« Last Edit: March 29, 2024, 09:04:14 am by Stockholm Syndrome »

Offline Andar

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #6258 on: March 29, 2024, 09:01:59 am »
Last time we were looking for a manager, Klopp was our 1st choice and Ancelotti was our back-up.

Some contrast to the slim pickings at this moment in time.

Has anyone checked on Rossi?

Offline killer-heels

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #6259 on: March 29, 2024, 09:03:18 am »
I again say this with the line that he is my first choice.

I think first year Amorim here looks like Ange's first year at Spurs - exciting football, some string of wins and big wins, some string of loses and bad loses, some tactical naivety, and a top 4 challenge all said.

How we look the following years will determine his time here

Would you take that if you coupled it with a trophy/really strong run in the CL?

If we didnt make top four then I reckon Amorim would really be out on his arse.

Offline DelTrotter

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #6260 on: March 29, 2024, 09:03:20 am »


Has anyone checked on Rossi?

He's probably not crying as much as you to be fair!

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #6261 on: March 29, 2024, 09:03:58 am »
I don’t want Nagelsmann. There was a time I thought he could be a Klopp successor, but his overall outward personality and the way it spiralled at Bayern suggests to me that he’s inflexible and perhaps doesn’t have the personality to achieve buy-in with star players. Tactically he’s like De Zerbi in that he’s very sharp, but even more than De Zerbi it feels like good results are incidental to him seeing what he wants tactically from his players, rather than a means to achieve.

De Zerbi’s CV isn’t befitting of a Liverpool manager yet. I just see too many flaws in his Sassuolo and Brighton teams to be completely comfortable with him as the coach. I know Hughes went for him once before, but Liverpool is a very different beast to Bournemouth. I just think he’s not ready and no sure he’ll ever be, albeit players seem to love him.

Kind of leaves Amorim as the one with some weight to his CV, lots of achievements, playing good football with a side that’s under-resourced compared to its’ rivals. His English is already good, he has some personal charisma, the way he plays is not going to be alien to the players we have.

A bit disappointed that Alonso appears to be waiting for the Madrid job, but we won’t have ever completely put our eggs in that basket.
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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #6262 on: March 29, 2024, 09:06:04 am »
*** desperately tries to find a stream for tonights Sporting game ***
« Last Edit: March 29, 2024, 09:09:11 am by [new username under construction] »

Offline Stockholm Syndrome

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #6263 on: March 29, 2024, 09:06:35 am »
Would you take that if you coupled it with a trophy/really strong run in the CL?

If we didnt make top four then I reckon Amorim would really be out on his arse.

I would take that full stop and then expect a bit more the season after. I don't think we will win anything for a good couple of years with anyone linked at the moment

If we get top 4 and Quarters depending on our opponent in the CL that's a good first season with Amorim I'd say

Depends how far off top 4 we are. If we are close then it may be acceptable, but if we don't make it year 1 we would have to make it year 2

Offline Andar

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #6264 on: March 29, 2024, 09:06:50 am »
He's probably not crying as much as you to be fair!

Therapeutic to let it all out. Silence is more of a worry.

Offline meady1981

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #6265 on: March 29, 2024, 09:10:31 am »
The downside of not getting Alonso is Alonso would have united the entire fanbase behind and if things were going tits up you'd expect the fanbase to have more patience with him.

Unless the manager is personally a bellend, we usually get behind all of them.

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #6266 on: March 29, 2024, 09:10:52 am »
That 5-0 at home to Everton last season was the most embarrassing performance i've ever watched in the Premier League, closely followed by Scotty Parker's Bournemouth at Anfield.

That amateur hour from De Zerbi that day is why Everton are still in the PL.
I happened to be at the Everton game. That wasn't an embarrassing performance.  It was just one of those games where everything Everton touched went in.

He's like Pep who got hammered by Madrid and Barcelona because he didn't want to deviate from his style. His tactics would translate well to better players and a better team.

He's Barcelona's priority so I doubt he's an option anyway.

Offline Fromola

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #6267 on: March 29, 2024, 09:13:02 am »
Alonso is very similar to sted and his clone.

why do you keep saying things like we are going back to a Rodgers level manager, do you actually believe that? No one available is Klopps level, we get that, he was a unicorn, that’s why he got more power to keep sprinkling his magic formula for success. We know this and that’s why we are building an elite back room to support a younger manager to build up to Klopps level, so we don’t need Klopp mark 2, we need someone who can grow into their own version of Klopp with the right support.

It's about the level of managers on the market. It's similar to when we ended up with a Rodgers/Martinez shortlist.

When we got Benitez and Klopp we knew we were getting a ready made top manager.

That's not to say they can't do anything. Even Rodgers nearly won a league title. It's about learning the lessons from that era and making that kind of appointment work this time.
Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season

Online MonsLibpool

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #6268 on: March 29, 2024, 09:13:04 am »
The downside of not getting Alonso is Alonso would have united the entire fanbase behind and if things were going tits up you'd expect the fanbase to have more patience with him.
Alonso is doing very well but he's a bit overrated. He's the Caicedo of managers in terms of how last summer went.

Others managers can do well here and unite the fanbase.

Offline spider-neil

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #6269 on: March 29, 2024, 09:14:59 am »
Unless the manager is personally a bellend, we usually get behind all of them.

*cough* Hodgson *cough*


I never got behind him. He was a shit manager before, during, and after Liverpool.

Offline spider-neil

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #6270 on: March 29, 2024, 09:15:59 am »
Alonso is doing very well but he's a bit overrated. He's the Caicedo of managers in terms of how last summer went.

Others managers can do well here and unite the fanbase.

I don't know about being overrated. 35 games unbeaten is an astonishing record.

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #6271 on: March 29, 2024, 09:18:11 am »
I don't know about being overrated. 35 games unbeaten is an astonishing record.
Yes but that doesn't guarantee anything because he doesn't have a track record of success so yes he's overrated and other managers get looked down upon because Xabi is "perfect".

Offline killer-heels

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #6272 on: March 29, 2024, 09:18:35 am »
I would take that full stop and then expect a bit more the season after. I don't think we will win anything for a good couple of years with anyone linked at the moment

If we get top 4 and Quarters depending on our opponent in the CL that's a good first season with Amorim I'd say

I think the issue we have is that you dont go from 9 years with Klopp and the attachment he beings and then a cold, personality like Frank or Nagelsman without longing for a sense of connection. In that sense De Zerbi does have a personality in that he is fiery, but he doesnt seem like someone the club would create a bond with even if he did do well.

I reckon a manager like De Zerbi, Frank etc. last 3 seasons max. Nagelsman lasts 1.

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #6273 on: March 29, 2024, 09:19:47 am »
Yes but that doesn't guarantee anything because he doesn't have a track record of success so yes he's overrated and other managers get looked down upon because Xabi is "perfect".

None of the others are blessed with success either.

Offline killer-heels

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #6274 on: March 29, 2024, 09:21:03 am »
Unless the manager is personally a bellend, we usually get behind all of them.

We got behind the side in 13-14 but Rodgers was always a bad run of form away from the fans turning. He wasnt liked.

Online MonsLibpool

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #6275 on: March 29, 2024, 09:22:20 am »
None of the others are blessed with success either.
True. I said earlier in the thread that anyone we hire is a question mark because we want someone for the medium term and the established managers don't tend to stick around for long.

I just found placing Xabi on a pedestal puzzling.

Offline Draex

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #6276 on: March 29, 2024, 09:24:00 am »
It's about the level of managers on the market. It's similar to when we ended up with a Rodgers/Martinez shortlist.

When we got Benitez and Klopp we knew we were getting a ready made top manager.

That's not to say they can't do anything. Even Rodgers nearly won a league title. It's about learning the lessons from that era and making that kind of appointment work this time.

And that sounds like exactly what we are doing, we’ve built the back room to support a new manager first, that tells you what the structure will be. We’re now using those people and our analytics to recruit a new manager who fits in with everything we want.

I don’t believe anyone who said they knew Klopp would be this good when he was first appointed. He has turned out to be one of the greatest managers of all time. I’m sure people hoped, but no chance, with certainty they will now use to bash a lesser experienced manager who isn’t the Klopp of today.

Offline Dazzer23

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #6277 on: March 29, 2024, 09:25:29 am »
,
Today, is not a good day, lads. This kind of news is nothing new, and is testament to why we should not rest on our laurels.

I think the worst thing for me is Richard Keys was wrong. Shocked and dev’od by the thought.

Offline Stockholm Syndrome

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #6278 on: March 29, 2024, 09:25:49 am »
I think the issue we have is that you dont go from 9 years with Klopp and the attachment he beings and then a cold, personality like Frank or Nagelsman without longing for a sense of connection. In that sense De Zerbi does have a personality in that he is fiery, but he doesnt seem like someone the club would create a bond with even if he did do well.

I reckon a manager like De Zerbi, Frank etc. last 3 seasons max. Nagelsman lasts 1.

Frank tbf I wouldn't call a cold personality, he seems very friendly and honest.

I am honestly on the fence over him vs De Zerbi, but Amorim being miles ahead of both

Offline JackWard33

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #6279 on: March 29, 2024, 09:26:20 am »
I think the issue we have is that you dont go from 9 years with Klopp and the attachment he beings and then a cold, personality like Frank or Nagelsman without longing for a sense of connection. In that sense De Zerbi does have a personality in that he is fiery, but he doesnt seem like someone the club would create a bond with even if he did do well.

I reckon a manager like De Zerbi, Frank etc. last 3 seasons max. Nagelsman lasts 1.

If the new manager wins they’ll last - if they don’t they won’t
If they win the fans will like them… if they don’t they won’t