Author Topic: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation  (Read 619048 times)

Offline Snusmumriken

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #5640 on: March 25, 2024, 10:06:42 am »
He got Sporting their first league title since 2002 and he regularly loses his best players every season. He’s done an incredible job there honestly.

Yup, I agree that's really impressive. But what Alonso is doing with Leverkusen while being up against the behemoth that is Bayern and also breaking unbeaten records while doing so is quite unheard of.

Offline Suareznumber7

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #5641 on: March 25, 2024, 11:15:32 am »
If our coaching staff are looking at Amorim I think it will be because there is a closer cross-over of playing styles. Faster to integrate more players that suit that style of play. With regard to Alonso, it's more possession-based but that leads to more control and more control wins more matches but may take longer to implement.

I don't think it'll take that long to implement a different style of play.  He did it at Leverkusen pretty quickly and we have better players who should be able to adapt quicker. 

Offline Suareznumber7

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #5642 on: March 25, 2024, 11:16:35 am »
Not sure why people are turning their noses at Nageslmann. Did extremely well with RB Leipzig, won the double at Bayern in his first season, and got sacked while being behind Dortmund by 1 point.

His CL record is also pretty solid, and his style of play will suit our players too.

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #5643 on: March 25, 2024, 11:24:53 am »
What separates Alonso from Amorim and the rest is that at Leverkusen he has managed to instill an incredible winning mentality. Their record this season is truly remarkable. The kind of run you need to be able to compete with Ped's cheats.
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Offline Schmidt

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #5644 on: March 25, 2024, 11:57:57 am »
What separates Alonso from Amorim and the rest is that at Leverkusen he has managed to instill an incredible winning mentality. Their record this season is truly remarkable. The kind of run you need to be able to compete with Ped's cheats.

Sporting are currently on 2.6 ppg, with two narrow defeats and two draws all season, having lost their best players quite often, though that's perhaps balanced out by them having quite a big loan pool. He also won them their first league title in 20 years and has then on course for their second. Leverkusen on 2.69 ppg with four draws.

The two situations are remarkably similar actually, stats wise anyway. Sporting were probably the more consistent team of the two over the past decade but both were quite big teams in their league, both tend to sell their best players and not spend a lot, and both are now competing for league titles. Alonso looks like he might achieve the highest peak of the two, but Amorim has shown over five seasons that his title wasn't just a one off.

You could maybe criticise Amorim's performances in Europe, but then Leverkusen very nearly got knocked out by 10 man Qarabag.

The quality of the Portuguese league is often called into question but then we've also seen players like Werner, Havertz and Sancho come to England and struggle, while Kane has gone over there at the age of 30 and racked up the goals.

Offline Zlen

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #5645 on: March 25, 2024, 12:05:07 pm »
I really won't lose sleep over this.
Smarter and better informed people will be making this decision.
Let's just hope whoever comes is given time and patience - especially if it isn't Alonso.

Offline rawcusk8

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #5646 on: March 25, 2024, 12:09:49 pm »
Didn’t Amorims Sporting just get knocked out by Atlanta in the Europa? At least we can say he’s faced adversity, every cloud and that.
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Offline SamLad

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #5647 on: March 25, 2024, 12:10:35 pm »
Didn’t Amorims Sporting just get knocked out by Atlanta in the Europa? At least we can say he’s faced adversity, every cloud and that.
no.

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #5648 on: March 25, 2024, 12:13:19 pm »
This.

The discount for Amorim here is quite naïve because outside of Xabi being an ex-player he isn't, on managerial achievements better than Amorim, yet.

His European record doesn't look great. First season - lost in the Europa play off round. 2nd season did get out the CL group which is good (although lost 3 of the 6 games) and then were smashed 5-0 at home to City in the first leg of the last 16. 3rd season - 3rd in the CL group which which was one of the weaker groups but did reach the quarters of the Europa League. This season - knocked out last 16 to Atalanta in the Europa League who also topped their group.

By contrast - Benfica reached the last two CL quarter finals and are in the Europa League quarters this season. Porto have reached the knockout round in recent seasons for the CL.

Not bad either but to get the Liverpool job you want to be really standing out domestically and in Europe.
Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season

Offline jillcwhomever

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #5649 on: March 25, 2024, 12:14:46 pm »
His European record doesn't look great. First season - lost in the Europa play off round. 2nd season did get out the CL group which is good (although lost 3 of the 6 games) and then were smashed 5-0 at home to City in the first leg of the last 16. 3rd season - 3rd in the CL group which which was one of the weaker groups but did reach the quarters of the Europa League. This season - knocked out last 16 to Atalanta in the Europa League who also topped their group.

By contrast - Benfica reached the last two CL quarter finals and are in the Europa League quarters this season. Porto have reached the knockout round in recent seasons for the CL.

Not bad either but to get the Liverpool job you want to be really standing out domestically and in Europe.

You also have to take into consideration he will have better players here than what he currently has at Sporting.
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Offline rawcusk8

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #5650 on: March 25, 2024, 12:16:22 pm »
“If you even dream of beating me you'd better wake up and apologize.” - muhammad ali

Offline jillcwhomever

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #5651 on: March 25, 2024, 12:18:05 pm »
What separates Alonso from Amorim and the rest is that at Leverkusen he has managed to instill an incredible winning mentality. Their record this season is truly remarkable. The kind of run you need to be able to compete with Ped's cheats.

There is no guarantee he will be able to do that over here, the Premier League is different to the league over there.
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Offline SamLad

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #5652 on: March 25, 2024, 12:18:58 pm »
You sure bout that?
1,000,000%

read the post again.  :)

Offline rawcusk8

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #5653 on: March 25, 2024, 12:20:48 pm »
1,000,000%

read the post again.  :)
Haha 🖕🏻

Back to work I go :)
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Offline SamLad

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #5654 on: March 25, 2024, 12:23:49 pm »
Haha 🖕🏻

Back to work I go :)

sorry mate, couldn't resist  :)

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #5655 on: March 25, 2024, 12:37:36 pm »
I really won't lose sleep over this.
Smarter and better informed people will be making this decision.
Let's just hope whoever comes is given time and patience - especially if it isn't Alonso.
I'm the same on this now. I'm not losing sleep over it. I'm trusting the club to get it right. I think/hope we are long past the days of appointing a Hodgson.
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Offline mattD

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #5656 on: March 25, 2024, 01:01:59 pm »
His European record doesn't look great. First season - lost in the Europa play off round. 2nd season did get out the CL group which is good (although lost 3 of the 6 games) and then were smashed 5-0 at home to City in the first leg of the last 16. 3rd season - 3rd in the CL group which which was one of the weaker groups but did reach the quarters of the Europa League. This season - knocked out last 16 to Atalanta in the Europa League who also topped their group.

By contrast - Benfica reached the last two CL quarter finals and are in the Europa League quarters this season. Porto have reached the knockout round in recent seasons for the CL.

Not bad either but to get the Liverpool job you want to be really standing out domestically and in Europe.

I've always felt European expertise shows the true mark of a manager. The tactical variations and differing playing styles and cultures shows a managers true colours in adapting to the situation. Klopp had earnt his stripes with outstanding performances in the Champions League prior to coming here, Rafa too with his Valencia side in UEFA Cup, and was no slouch either in overcoming the likes of peak  Wenger Arsenal in the Champions League.

With that in mind, Amorim is a bit unknown territory here. But important to bear in mind his Sporting side are far behind Porto and Benfica in terms of resources, and always have been, so we can't compare him to the likes of Villas Boas who succeeded in Portugal as he had massive advantages than Amorim doesn't have.

I keep saying it, but Knutsen from Bodo/Glimt has a great European record for a tiny provincial club. Outstanding, and I'm surprised he's not an outsiders bet. Would have him easily over most of the names bandied about in the current shortlist.

Offline rossipersempre

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #5657 on: March 25, 2024, 01:11:19 pm »
You also have to take into consideration he will have better players here than what he currently has at Sporting.
This is such a lazy argument. Every manager that takes the job will have better players than their current lot.

Mediocre/inconsistent performance in Europe is an amber if not quite a red flag. It speaks to tactical naivety or inexperience. We saw that with Rodgers, who still can't cut it against overseas opposition. Just as we saw Rafa's teams consistently overachieve in the CL.

It's my major concern about Amorim, in addition to Portugal being a weaker league than Germany. Last season, Leverkusen made the EL semis, narrowly losing to eventual winners Roma under Mourinho, and look likely to go one step further this season. Sporting getting knocked out relatively early should not be so easily overlooked or ignored.

It's also possible that Amorim chooses Barcelona over us anyway (once KO of the CL) before 22 May. That will set the cat amongst the pigeons here.
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Offline Samie

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #5658 on: March 25, 2024, 01:29:51 pm »
your the main one in this thread going on and on about Alonso like he is the only candidate

Motherfucker, I still do but we still need backups.

And I was giving my opinion on what I think Michael Edwards would do, not Samie from RAWK.

Offline jillcwhomever

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #5659 on: March 25, 2024, 01:31:17 pm »
This is such a lazy argument. Every manager that takes the job will have better players than their current lot.

Mediocre/inconsistent performance in Europe is an amber if not quite a red flag. It speaks to tactical naivety or inexperience. We saw that with Rodgers, who still can't cut it against overseas opposition. Just as we saw Rafa's teams consistently overachieve in the CL.

It's my major concern about Amorim, in addition to Portugal being a weaker league than Germany. Last season, Leverkusen made the EL semis, narrowly losing to eventual winners Roma under Mourinho, and look likely to go one step further this season. Sporting getting knocked out relatively early should not be so easily overlooked or ignored.

It's also possible that Amorim chooses Barcelona over us anyway (once KO of the CL) before 22 May. That will set the cat amongst the pigeons here.

There are concerns about Alonso as well as there no guarantee he can repeat what he's doing in Germany over here in the same way. Added to which my concern with Xabi has always been his style of football which is less suited to us. I could also say he may choose Bayern over us as well, we won't know either way untill something is confirmed. Perhaps also they will come across someone different to the two favourites.I'm afraid there is no such thing as an ideal candidate it will go to the one who ticks the most boxes.
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Offline FlashGordon

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #5660 on: March 25, 2024, 01:37:19 pm »
This is such a lazy argument. Every manager that takes the job will have better players than their current lot.

Mediocre/inconsistent performance in Europe is an amber if not quite a red flag. It speaks to tactical naivety or inexperience. We saw that with Rodgers, who still can't cut it against overseas opposition. Just as we saw Rafa's teams consistently overachieve in the CL.

It's my major concern about Amorim, in addition to Portugal being a weaker league than Germany. Last season, Leverkusen made the EL semis, narrowly losing to eventual winners Roma under Mourinho, and look likely to go one step further this season. Sporting getting knocked out relatively early should not be so easily overlooked or ignored.

It's also possible that Amorim chooses Barcelona over us anyway (once KO of the CL) before 22 May. That will set the cat amongst the pigeons here.

If Portugal is a weaker league than Germany then shouldn't there be a bit of leeway granted to Amorim for his results in Europe, seeing as he is coming from a weaker league?
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Offline Draex

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #5661 on: March 25, 2024, 01:45:47 pm »
There are concerns about Alonso as well as there no guarantee he can repeat what he's doing in Germany over here in the same way. Added to which my concern with Xabi has always been his style of football which is less suited to us. I could also say he may choose Bayern over us as well, we won't know either way untill something is confirmed. Perhaps also they will come across someone different to the two favourites.I'm afraid there is no such thing as an ideal candidate it will go to the one who ticks the most boxes.

And this season could be a complete outlier like when Leicester won the league.

My preference is Alonso don't get me wrong but he's not like so far out ahead that if we didn't get him it would be bad for the club.

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #5662 on: March 25, 2024, 01:49:58 pm »
There are concerns about Alonso as well as there no guarantee he can repeat what he's doing in Germany over here in the same way. Added to which my concern with Xabi has always been his style of football which is less suited to us. I could also say he may choose Bayern over us as well, we won't know either way untill something is confirmed. Perhaps also they will come across someone different to the two favourites.I'm afraid there is no such thing as an ideal candidate it will go to the one who ticks the most boxes.

I'd say we can change our style of football under a new coach. We haven't always played like this and we won't always play like this. The key is we have excellent defenders, great keepers, a selection of midfielders that is pretty darn good when everyone is fit (and will evolve for sure) and 5 interesting forwards - an area that might be trimmed and reworked from the summer.

I still say moving to a genuine back 3 might be a great way to go, to add 1-2 years to Virgil's career, provided is also works for other departments, including immense talents like Trent...
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Offline Samie

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #5663 on: March 25, 2024, 02:10:41 pm »
Quote
Bayern are Talking to candidates on their List if Xabi Alonso doesn‘t want to come & have made contact with Roberto De Zerbi.

[@cfbayern/ @altobelli13]

Offline lgvkarlos

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #5664 on: March 25, 2024, 02:35:48 pm »
Personally I think Nagelsmann would do a great job for us, lots of experience for a young guy. Definitely think he has the ability to become a top tier manager.

Offline disgraced cake

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #5665 on: March 25, 2024, 02:46:13 pm »
If Portugal is a weaker league than Germany then shouldn't there be a bit of leeway granted to Amorim for his results in Europe, seeing as he is coming from a weaker league?

I think the whole thing speaks to how much harder it's become to win in Europe. If someone other than Man City or Real Madrid win the UCL I'd be very surprised shocked. One of the biggest historical clubs in European football made the final last season and it was seen as a pretty big surprise. In other years you'd be able to include ourselves and Bayern alongside those two, and in the Messi/Barca eta you would obviously include them. It's near enough a closed club and in the 21st century there's basically been a couple of outside shout winners (Porto in 04, ourselves in 05, arguably Chelsea when they first won it).

That sort of filters down to the Europa League too, it just become common for a Spanish side (mainly Sevilla) to win it when they had the best league for a good number of years. Atletico Madrid even won it three times in eight years when they weren't in the Champions League, even a few of the years Sevilla have won it they started out in the Champions League. United and Chelsea have won it and could have done so without playing all of their first team, we might (hopefully) do the same soon. Even in the Conference League you've got the likes of West Ham and Villa lining up to win a European trophy. Zenit and Shakhtar Donetsk were the last non-big league teams to win the Europa but even that's going back 15/16 years now. Money and the quality of the big leagues is everything.

I think it's quite hard to look at Amorim's European record given that, and that will always be one of the big things Liverpool should base their search for a new manager on. Alonso done well to take Leverkusen to the semis last year and you'd expect them to replicate at least that this season. Going forward it'll be harder to judge the records of managers in Europe when they're at a steeping stone club like Amorim is.
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Offline Samie

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #5666 on: March 25, 2024, 03:51:01 pm »
Quote
Xabi Alonso remains the front-runner and Liverpool will fight for him despite noise in Germany.

Reports have suggested that Alonso would prefer to stay in Germany but Liverpool have had little indication to lower their expectations.

[@LewisSteele_]

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #5667 on: March 25, 2024, 03:51:30 pm »
Quote
Ruben Amorim has been described by those close to him as a ‘master communicator’ - and it is believed he scored high on internal data tests led by Liverpool’s head of research Will Spearman. The young manager shares an agent with Liverpool's Luis Diaz.

[@LewisSteele_]

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #5668 on: March 25, 2024, 04:02:16 pm »


Translates as: Xabi's agent would have told us if he were definitely decided upon staying at Leverkusen or moving to Bayern.

Offline mattD

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #5669 on: March 25, 2024, 04:04:05 pm »
Personally I think Nagelsmann would do a great job for us, lots of experience for a young guy. Definitely think he has the ability to become a top tier manager.

Not this again...

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #5670 on: March 25, 2024, 04:07:14 pm »
Quote
Liverpool would have to pay a world record fee in compensation of £25m to Sporting if they wanted to poach Ruben Amorim this summer.
@LewisSteele_

Oof!  :o

Offline DelTrotter

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #5671 on: March 25, 2024, 04:08:54 pm »
Ornstein said around 10m euros, either way not really much if we believe he's the right man for years.

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #5672 on: March 25, 2024, 04:11:57 pm »
I'm telling you, Bowie died and it's all gone to fuck.

Offline HardworkDedication

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #5673 on: March 25, 2024, 04:19:05 pm »
Ornstein said around 10m euros, either way not really much if we believe he's the right man for years.

Where has he said this?

Offline SamLad

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #5674 on: March 25, 2024, 04:26:32 pm »
Where has he said this?
seen scratched on a bog wall somewhere I imagine.

Offline SamLad

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #5675 on: March 25, 2024, 04:33:36 pm »

Offline Barneylfc∗

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #5676 on: March 25, 2024, 04:36:21 pm »
Xabi has agreed -- according to this guy whose name frankly means zero to me.

https://tbrfootball.com/richard-keys-says-42-year-old-has-now-agreed-to-become-liverpools-next-manager-after-jurgen-klopp/

Well if he has said it, you can pretty much guarantee he's not joining us in the summer.
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Offline clinical

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #5677 on: March 25, 2024, 04:43:31 pm »
Richard Keys kiss of death. Amorim it is.
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Offline thaddeus

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #5678 on: March 25, 2024, 04:49:48 pm »
Haha, Keys!  Which of his circle of ITKs would have any clue about the dealings of FSG, Alonso or Bayern?!

It's amusing though that he asks the question that if Man U appointing Southgate would top the theoretical appointment of Alonso for us.  If Southgate has any sense he'll ride the England bandwagon for as long as possible and never prove his incompetence by returning to club management.

Just imagine if we ended up with Southgate as our next manager  :o

Offline Henry Gale

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Re: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation
« Reply #5679 on: March 25, 2024, 04:56:57 pm »
Haha, Keys!  Which of his circle of ITKs would have any clue about the dealings of FSG, Alonso or Bayern?!

It's amusing though that he asks the question that if Man U appointing Southgate would top the theoretical appointment of Alonso for us.  If Southgate has any sense he'll ride the England bandwagon for as long as possible and never prove his incompetence by returning to club management.

Just imagine if we ended up with Southgate as our next manager :o

Stop it! Think I would prefer Roy Hodgson.  :puke2