Author Topic: 115 charges for the scorched earth cheating bastards on & off the pitch  (Read 439899 times)

Offline farawayred

  • Whizz For Atomms. Nucular boffin. A Mars A Day Helps Him Work, Rest And Play
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 26,905
  • Oh yes, I'm a believer!
Re: Man City - Cheating Bastards on & off the pitch - 115 Charges
« Reply #5360 on: May 12, 2024, 04:20:22 am »
If the 115 charges ever do get heard and they’ve been proven guilty, every trophy win since 2012 will be officially tainted as ‘obtained by cheating’.
The trophies should be taken away, end of. Like Armstrong's Tour de France wins.
Cruyff: "Victory is not enough, there also needs to be beautiful football."

Online kaesarsosei

  • Brutally bad.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,034
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Man City - Cheating Bastards on & off the pitch - 115 Charges
« Reply #5361 on: May 12, 2024, 10:35:43 am »
The ironic thing about City's treble is that it is both meaningless (to me and it appears most fans) yet it still devalues United's genuine treble  ;D

Online [new username under construction]

  • Poster formerly know as shadowbane. Never lost his head whilst others panicked. Fucking kopite!
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,514
  • Insert something awesome here!
Re: Man City - Cheating Bastards on & off the pitch - 115 Charges
« Reply #5362 on: May 12, 2024, 11:42:10 am »
So we should expect the UK government to step in with sanctions on City?  I won’t hold by breath.

We should expect the UK Government to step in and sell some weapons to Mansour

Online Mister Flip Flop

  • More flop than flip.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 9,947
Re: Man City - Cheating Bastards on & off the pitch - 115 Charges
« Reply #5363 on: May 12, 2024, 12:01:35 pm »
The trophies should be taken away, end of. Like Armstrong's Tour de France wins.

This is what happens in a properly run sport or at least a sport that is striving for that. Football is not a properly run sport.
Soccer - let's face it, its not really about a game of ball anymore is it?

Online red_Mark1980

  • Wool ginger runner
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,652
  • J.F.T.97
Re: Man City - Cheating Bastards on & off the pitch - 115 Charges
« Reply #5364 on: May 12, 2024, 04:55:21 pm »
That poznan is honestly one of the woolist things ever.

Offline redgriffin73

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 32,685
  • Thanks for everything Rafa. Nunca Caminarás Solo.
Re: Man City - Cheating Bastards on & off the pitch - 115 Charges
« Reply #5365 on: May 12, 2024, 05:13:21 pm »
That poznan is honestly one of the woolist things ever.


When even Noel Gallagher refuses to join in you know you look a twat.
Rafa Benitez: "I'll always keep in my heart the good times I've had here, the strong and loyal support of the fans in the tough times and the love from Liverpool. I have no words to thank you enough for all these years and I am very proud to say that I was your manager. Thank you so much once more and always remember: You'll never walk alone."

Offline Rojo O Muerto

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,142
Re: Man City - Cheating Bastards on & off the pitch - 115 Charges
« Reply #5366 on: May 12, 2024, 09:54:40 pm »
Always hated the pozzedload.
If you can't support us when we're shartin', don't support us when we're fartin'

Offline Black Bull Nova

  • emo
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,994
  • The cheesy side of town
Re: Man City - Cheating Bastards on & off the pitch - 115 Charges
« Reply #5367 on: May 13, 2024, 12:49:32 am »
When even Noel Gallagher refuses to join in you know you look a twat.
For some reason City fans actually looked like they were enjoying yesterday when they scored, they looked surprised, are they thick, everyone else had stopped watching because of the sheer dullness and inevitability of what was happening (to be fair, our home games during part of the Paisley era often felt like that although we drew some of them)
aarf, aarf, aarf.

Offline LFCEmpire

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,641
  • Icelandic Kopite
Re: Man City - Cheating Bastards on & off the pitch - 115 Charges
« Reply #5368 on: May 13, 2024, 12:50:27 am »
The trophies should be taken away, end of. Like Armstrong's Tour de France wins.

Absolutely.

Offline Oscarmac

  • Kenny is King
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,589
Re: Man City - Cheating Bastards on & off the pitch - 115 Charges
« Reply #5369 on: May 13, 2024, 07:04:57 am »
Minor question.

Any details of when their case will be held?
They are only great because we are on our knees......let us arise!

Offline zero zero

  • Karma's a bitch. Innit.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 15,682
Re: Man City - Cheating Bastards on & off the pitch - 115 Charges
« Reply #5370 on: May 13, 2024, 07:13:20 am »
Minor question.

Any details of when their case will be held?
Autumn of this year

Offline spider-neil

  • Can watch 30 games in a day. He's not Spidey - he's Sway!
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 18,656
  • does whatever a spider can, spins a web any size
Re: Man City - Cheating Bastards on & off the pitch - 115 Charges
« Reply #5371 on: May 13, 2024, 07:26:20 am »
The trophies should be taken away, end of. Like Armstrong's Tour de France wins.

If found guilty it won't matter if the trophies are taken off them or not they will all be tainted with a massive asterisk beside them.

Offline Red-Soldier

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,853
Re: Man City - Cheating Bastards on & off the pitch - 115 Charges
« Reply #5372 on: May 13, 2024, 07:55:39 am »
If found guilty it won't matter if the trophies are taken off them or not they will all be tainted with a massive asterisk beside them.

It will.  They should be awarded retrospectively, to the rightful wniners.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2024, 08:04:32 am by Red-Soldier »

Offline vblfc

  • "Verily, behold! Liverpool Football Club!"
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,731
  • Let your soul and spirit fly Into the mystic
Re: Man City - Cheating Bastards on & off the pitch - 115 Charges
« Reply #5373 on: May 13, 2024, 08:16:06 am »
If found guilty it won't matter if the trophies are taken off them or not they will all be tainted with a massive asterisk beside them.
It has to be remembered that these 115 charges are referring to period up to 2018. Also it has taken maybe 5 or 6  years now to deal with them (if they ever actually do get concluded). So (for example) this whole 115 case isn’t what will taint Pep’s achievements. That would require a further investigation.
So, say they get stripped of their titles up to 2018, and maybe relegated. Does pressure then logically follow for a second investigation get launched? (taking maybe another 5 years). The whole thing starts to look ridiculous and hard to understand how City could be allowed to keep winning in another interim period.
The damage to the whole Premier League, Football League, UEFA, Sky, BT etc. brands would be massive. Even moreso the impact to the whole ADFC sportswashing project. They all will not want this to happen. There will be very strong financial and political pressure to minimise that damage. The only opposing pressure can come from other clubs and/or fans. But it really isn’t clear that pressure is strong or unified.
So there is a scenario for this to be swept under the carpet by more manipulation, money and gaslighting. (See previous UEFA case)  If City got this far by breaking the rules, paying people off the books etc. why wouldn’t they continue?

Offline Zlen

  • Suspicious of systems. But getting lots.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 19,127
Re: Man City - Cheating Bastards on & off the pitch - 115 Charges
« Reply #5374 on: May 13, 2024, 08:38:05 am »
You can't strip titles and that won't happen. Not because it would be undeserved, but because its imposible to convert the currency of corruption into impact on the pitch. You can say, well they injected about 500m during the three year period, which means they wouldn't have bought so and so - but in reality, you can't argue this with any precision as to what would or would not happen. Who would they buy if not, how would these other players play and so on. The impact of financial cheating on the results on the pitch is not nothing, its likely quite enormous - but it can't be measured with any precision, which is why they'll never lose the trophies they won. We could certainly argue the impact of their financial cheating is more than one point they won titles by, but it is all or nothing argument - either you strip all trophies or you strip none.

To top it off, PL would not even consider pursuing taking titles from them. The damage to the brand would be unimaginable and we need to understand that the City case is all about damage limitation and brand preserving for the PL. They are only going after them because government regulator taking over is seen as more of a threat than City doing whatever the fuck they want and dominating. And they'll be punished, if found guilty, exactly to the point needed to satiate the murmurs for government taking over. Nobody is doing this for justice, or true course correcting - it is being done to wash hands a bit and preserve things as they are. The aim is to change as little as possible while appearing to change a lot.

Offline peelyon

  • strangefruit
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,682
  • YNWA
Re: Man City - Cheating Bastards on & off the pitch - 115 Charges
« Reply #5375 on: May 13, 2024, 08:56:55 am »
You can't strip titles and that won't happen. Not because it would be undeserved, but because its imposible to convert the currency of corruption into impact on the pitch. You can say, well they injected about 500m during the three year period, which means they wouldn't have bought so and so - but in reality, you can't argue this with any precision as to what would or would not happen. Who would they buy if not, how would these other players play and so on. The impact of financial cheating on the results on the pitch is not nothing, its likely quite enormous - but it can't be measured with any precision, which is why they'll never lose the trophies they won. We could certainly argue the impact of their financial cheating is more than one point they won titles by, but it is all or nothing argument - either you strip all trophies or you strip none.

To top it off, PL would not even consider pursuing taking titles from them. The damage to the brand would be unimaginable and we need to understand that the City case is all about damage limitation and brand preserving for the PL. They are only going after them because government regulator taking over is seen as more of a threat than City doing whatever the fuck they want and dominating. And they'll be punished, if found guilty, exactly to the point needed to satiate the murmurs for government taking over. Nobody is doing this for justice, or true course correcting - it is being done to wash hands a bit and preserve things as they are. The aim is to change as little as possible while appearing to change a lot.

IFthey are managing to give points deductions surely they can give a points deduction for that particular season based on the rules broken and amend the table accordingly?

Offline Zlen

  • Suspicious of systems. But getting lots.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 19,127
Re: Man City - Cheating Bastards on & off the pitch - 115 Charges
« Reply #5376 on: May 13, 2024, 09:07:40 am »
IFthey are managing to give points deductions surely they can give a points deduction for that particular season based on the rules broken and amend the table accordingly?

To be perfectly honest, I don't even care about the punishment for 'under-table' payments, bloated contracts etc. All I'm interested in is if PL prove the 35-something charges of refusing to cooperate, that City are given a notice to deliver asked papers or face immediate suspension. The whole wretched story for me rests on those charges. Until they cooperate fully (and this might mean another investigation and more corruption being uncovered) PL is effectivelly incapable of enforcing their own laws and City operate outside the rules others follow. This is the crux of the whole story. Not the systemic breaching of the rules, bad as it is, but the open, loud, repeated 'go fuck yourselves' they gave the the league and all other teams by refusing to cooperate.

Offline vblfc

  • "Verily, behold! Liverpool Football Club!"
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,731
  • Let your soul and spirit fly Into the mystic
Re: Man City - Cheating Bastards on & off the pitch - 115 Charges
« Reply #5377 on: May 13, 2024, 09:09:39 am »
IFthey are managing to give points deductions surely they can give a points deduction for that particular season based on the rules broken and amend the table accordingly?
for pre 2018 standings it’s hard (impossible?) to deal with all the knock-on consequences for cups, leagues, relegations, europe qualifications etc. It’s likely hard to just strip the league title only.  They wont want to do this. They will minimise and manipulate - and won’t damage the brand over such a time period.

Offline Swift417

  • Kemlynite
  • **
  • Posts: 30
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Man City - Cheating Bastards on & off the pitch - 115 Charges
« Reply #5378 on: May 13, 2024, 09:19:01 am »
Given how litigious these lot allegedly seem to be, the fact the Der Spiegel articles are all still up is always my main point when discussing man city with their defenders. Those are some absolutely damning pieces and the thought that they would allow them to remain available in the mainstream makes no sense at all.

Agree and disagree Zlen - the whole thing is a “go fuck yourselves” imo in terms of  how they operated. Some of those Pearce emails are literally taking the piss. The lack of co-operation is simply the icing on the undermining cake.

Offline Sir Capon of Debaser

  • #SAUSAGES Pheasant plucking, midget chucking, jazz sax blowing, wannabe mod who'd like to be Danny Dyer's Bitch but too scared to ask in public for a name change, the pussy.....would gladly do one for mouth. Adores cats! RAWK Factor Winner 1897.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 41,799
  • Golly! An Alien Judge!
    • https://murderouskaburdacus.bandcamp.com/
Re: Man City - Cheating Bastards on & off the pitch - 115 Charges
« Reply #5379 on: May 13, 2024, 10:05:32 am »
The trophies should be taken away, end of. Like Armstrong's Tour de France wins.
What happened there then mate? Were they awarded to the other racers and did they actually celebrate the win etc ?


Online red_Mark1980

  • Wool ginger runner
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,652
  • J.F.T.97
Re: Man City - Cheating Bastards on & off the pitch - 115 Charges
« Reply #5380 on: May 13, 2024, 10:13:53 am »
What happened there then mate? Were they awarded to the other racers and did they actually celebrate the win etc ?



No. Effectively no one won them. It was widely accepted most of the tour back then were cheating in one way or the other.

Armstrong was just better at cheating

Online LovelyCushionedHeader

  • Not so pleasant non-upholstered footer
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 15,161
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Man City - Cheating Bastards on & off the pitch - 115 Charges
« Reply #5381 on: May 13, 2024, 10:14:15 am »
What happened there then mate? Were they awarded to the other racers and did they actually celebrate the win etc ?

Given the nature of cycling, riders that finished about 39th would have ended up winning ;D

I think they just got stripped. Only one runner up to him hasn't also been convicted of doping offences. There's one year where I believe only one of the top 10 is still considered to be clean.
And if the rain stops, and everything's dry.. she would cry, just so I could drink tears from her eyes.

Offline stockdam

  • The sheer loftus-cheek of the man.....
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,749
  • Walk on through the wind, Walk on through the rain
Re: Man City - Cheating Bastards on & off the pitch - 115 Charges
« Reply #5382 on: May 13, 2024, 10:16:33 am »
I don't have a great feeling about this. Imagine in most sports if a team or person did not comply with the regulations then the matter would be dealt with immediately otherwise the impact if guilty gets harder to undo. Imagine if a runner failed to give urine tests. They would not be allowed to compete until they did so. They certainly wouldn't be allowed to continue and to win medals. Once an indiscretion is found then it is best to deal with it quickly otherwise the injustice ripples out.

So if City are found guilty, and say they are stipped titles and maybe docked points........would they award the titles to other clubs? If so then it is not the same as watching your team win on the final day; City fans have been allowed to do that and it cannot be taken away. What about the clubs who may have played in Europe; we cannot go back and play those games again.

It's a complete mess and it should never have got to this position. I think they will try to settle out of court with some watered down token punishment which will not be in line with the severity of the cheating.

Going forwards, the rules need to change so if any requested accounts are not complete and transparent or not handed in on time then the team forfeit all matches until it is rectified plus a points deduction plus a fine. It should be down to the club to make sure that the accounts are fully traceable and auditable. The winners of the league, plus say 3 random clubs should undergo a full audit every year. Even then the trouble is that it would be a huge and expensive undertaking. To keep things simple, the PL should err on the side that if it is not 100% clear then the club gets a warning and needs to address the problem within say 6 months otherwise they will face a sanction.

It's pretty clear that City tried to hide what was going on and are therefore guilty (you don't try to hide something if you have nothing to hide). The Premier League need to get on top of this and make sure that it never happens again.......but I don't have any confidence in them and the cheats will walk away with a minor bloody nose and with all the trophies that they got though cheating all the other clubs they played.

Their cheating allowed them to build a team that they wouldn't have been able to within the rules and they wouldn't have won the trophies they got nor would have had the winning and TV revenue that they got. It then compounds as they were able to build on the success which was originally based on cheating.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2024, 10:20:33 am by stockdam »
#JFT97

Offline Sir Capon of Debaser

  • #SAUSAGES Pheasant plucking, midget chucking, jazz sax blowing, wannabe mod who'd like to be Danny Dyer's Bitch but too scared to ask in public for a name change, the pussy.....would gladly do one for mouth. Adores cats! RAWK Factor Winner 1897.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 41,799
  • Golly! An Alien Judge!
    • https://murderouskaburdacus.bandcamp.com/
Re: Man City - Cheating Bastards on & off the pitch - 115 Charges
« Reply #5383 on: May 13, 2024, 10:35:46 am »
No. Effectively no one won them. It was widely accepted most of the tour back then were cheating in one way or the other.

Armstrong was just better at cheating
Given the nature of cycling, riders that finished about 39th would have ended up winning ;D

I think they just got stripped. Only one runner up to him hasn't also been convicted of doping offences. There's one year where I believe only one of the top 10 is still considered to be clean.
Right. Cheers lads

Online Mister Flip Flop

  • More flop than flip.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 9,947
Re: Man City - Cheating Bastards on & off the pitch - 115 Charges
« Reply #5384 on: May 13, 2024, 10:59:53 am »
You can't strip titles and that won't happen. Not because it would be undeserved, but because its imposible to convert the currency of corruption into impact on the pitch. You can say, well they injected about 500m during the three year period, which means they wouldn't have bought so and so - but in reality, you can't argue this with any precision as to what would or would not happen. Who would they buy if not, how would these other players play and so on. The impact of financial cheating on the results on the pitch is not nothing, its likely quite enormous - but it can't be measured with any precision, which is why they'll never lose the trophies they won. We could certainly argue the impact of their financial cheating is more than one point they won titles by, but it is all or nothing argument - either you strip all trophies or you strip none.

To top it off, PL would not even consider pursuing taking titles from them. The damage to the brand would be unimaginable and we need to understand that the City case is all about damage limitation and brand preserving for the PL. They are only going after them because government regulator taking over is seen as more of a threat than City doing whatever the fuck they want and dominating. And they'll be punished, if found guilty, exactly to the point needed to satiate the murmurs for government taking over. Nobody is doing this for justice, or true course correcting - it is being done to wash hands a bit and preserve things as they are. The aim is to change as little as possible while appearing to change a lot.

The damage to the brand by not stripping them of titles will be unimaginable. You are basically saying yeah it's fine to cheat and win stuff and we'll do the square root of fcuk all about it. It will be legitimising corruption.
Soccer - let's face it, its not really about a game of ball anymore is it?

Online Mister Flip Flop

  • More flop than flip.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 9,947
Re: Man City - Cheating Bastards on & off the pitch - 115 Charges
« Reply #5385 on: May 13, 2024, 11:07:37 am »
The very minute 115 made a decision to not cooperate with the Premiership they should have been thrown out of the league.
Soccer - let's face it, its not really about a game of ball anymore is it?

Offline Zlen

  • Suspicious of systems. But getting lots.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 19,127
Re: Man City - Cheating Bastards on & off the pitch - 115 Charges
« Reply #5386 on: May 13, 2024, 11:25:15 am »
The damage to the brand by not stripping them of titles will be unimaginable. You are basically saying yeah it's fine to cheat and win stuff and we'll do the square root of fcuk all about it. It will be legitimising corruption.

Depends on what is proven in the proceedings. I don't think you are right simply because PL will have a much simpler time of spinning some low-mid punishment into a major win (and they will call it justice), than they would spinning stripping titles of current champions and how in the world they even allowed it to happen. The latter scenario is one they will want to avoid, it would crack everything open, there would be a barrage of lawsuits from all sides, there would have to be a review of their 'fit and proper' rules - everything would be up for grabs. As I said - end game isn't sporting justice, forget about that, end game is status quo while maintaining pretence of correcting course.

Really the only thing that could push the needle towards some actual spoting justice would be a change in UK government and them coming down like a ton of bricks on PL - forcing them to cut this shit and fix everything for real.

Online Mister Flip Flop

  • More flop than flip.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 9,947
Re: Man City - Cheating Bastards on & off the pitch - 115 Charges
« Reply #5387 on: May 13, 2024, 11:38:52 am »
Depends on what is proven in the proceedings. I don't think you are right simply because PL will have a much simpler time of spinning some low-mid punishment into a major win (and they will call it justice), than they would spinning stripping titles of current champions and how in the world they even allowed it to happen. The latter scenario is one they will want to avoid, it would crack everything open, there would be a barrage of lawsuits from all sides, there would have to be a review of their 'fit and proper' rules - everything would be up for grabs. As I said - end game isn't sporting justice, forget about that, end game is status quo while maintaining pretence of correcting course.

Really the only thing that could push the needle towards some actual spoting justice would be a change in UK government and them coming down like a ton of bricks on PL - forcing them to cut this shit and fix everything for real.

I'm talking about the damage done to sporting integrity not the actual league. We've known for years the league is an entertainment circus with clowns on Sky shaping narratives and pushing subscriptions. Real football fans and yes i'd consider myself to be in that category are growing increasingly tired of it all and this will be the straw that breaks the camels back for me anyway.

The whole game is a cesspit at present, be it premier league or international football the game is a mess and if a raft of lawsuits creates a farcical situation it will be a good thing in the long run. Ripping it up and starting again won't be all that bad to be honest.
Soccer - let's face it, its not really about a game of ball anymore is it?

Online jillcwhomever

  • Finding Brian hard to swallow. Definitely not Paula Nancy MIllstone Jennings of 37 Wasp Villas, Greenbridge, Essex, GB10 1LL. Or maybe. Who knows.....Finds it hard to choose between Jürgen's wurst and Fat Sam's sausage.
  • Lead Matchday Commentator
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 78,456
  • "I'm surprised they didn't charge me rent"
Re: Man City - Cheating Bastards on & off the pitch - 115 Charges
« Reply #5388 on: May 13, 2024, 12:10:48 pm »
I don't have a great feeling about this. Imagine in most sports if a team or person did not comply with the regulations then the matter would be dealt with immediately otherwise the impact if guilty gets harder to undo. Imagine if a runner failed to give urine tests. They would not be allowed to compete until they did so. They certainly wouldn't be allowed to continue and to win medals. Once an indiscretion is found then it is best to deal with it quickly otherwise the injustice ripples out.

So if City are found guilty, and say they are stipped titles and maybe docked points........would they award the titles to other clubs? If so then it is not the same as watching your team win on the final day; City fans have been allowed to do that and it cannot be taken away. What about the clubs who may have played in Europe; we cannot go back and play those games again.

It's a complete mess and it should never have got to this position. I think they will try to settle out of court with some watered down token punishment which will not be in line with the severity of the cheating.

Going forwards, the rules need to change so if any requested accounts are not complete and transparent or not handed in on time then the team forfeit all matches until it is rectified plus a points deduction plus a fine. It should be down to the club to make sure that the accounts are fully traceable and auditable. The winners of the league, plus say 3 random clubs should undergo a full audit every year. Even then the trouble is that it would be a huge and expensive undertaking. To keep things simple, the PL should err on the side that if it is not 100% clear then the club gets a warning and needs to address the problem within say 6 months otherwise they will face a sanction.

It's pretty clear that City tried to hide what was going on and are therefore guilty (you don't try to hide something if you have nothing to hide). The Premier League need to get on top of this and make sure that it never happens again.......but I don't have any confidence in them and the cheats will walk away with a minor bloody nose and with all the trophies that they got though cheating all the other clubs they played.

Their cheating allowed them to build a team that they wouldn't have been able to within the rules and they wouldn't have won the trophies they got nor would have had the winning and TV revenue that they got. It then compounds as they were able to build on the success which was originally based on cheating.

It's already been stated by journalists following the case that its very unlikely other clubs will be awarded the trophies. I am not even sure I would want that, the moment has gone. The main point of this will be to deter others from doing the same. Should they be found guilty there is a clean slate for them to do whatever they wanted to do, from relegation, points loss etc.
"He's trying to get right away from football. I believe he went to Everton"

Offline Zlen

  • Suspicious of systems. But getting lots.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 19,127
Re: Man City - Cheating Bastards on & off the pitch - 115 Charges
« Reply #5389 on: May 13, 2024, 12:13:46 pm »
I'm just saying the sporting integrity simply won't even enter their calculations, not arguing it's not true that it is damaged. Modern Manchester City doesn't exist in it's current state and with this trophy haul - withouth breaking rules of conduct and business. It came first. Meaning they should lose what they have won if proven guilty, but I don't think this is even on the menu for PL. It's kind of evident that PL has only entered this battle because they must, because their grip on the golden goose is under threat. And their response will go only up to the point of reducing the pressure they feel and looking like they are in control. They don't want to rip anything up and start again - they want exactly the opposite of that. To do as little as they can get away with and maintain what they have.

Obviously there are elements to this story that are beyond their control - main one being how other clubs respond if we get a guilty verdict paired with mild punishment. That is beyond knowing at the moment, it could be few grumbles in the media, or it could be an uprising driven by anger. We can't say. But it's something PL will consider.

Online jillcwhomever

  • Finding Brian hard to swallow. Definitely not Paula Nancy MIllstone Jennings of 37 Wasp Villas, Greenbridge, Essex, GB10 1LL. Or maybe. Who knows.....Finds it hard to choose between Jürgen's wurst and Fat Sam's sausage.
  • Lead Matchday Commentator
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 78,456
  • "I'm surprised they didn't charge me rent"
Re: Man City - Cheating Bastards on & off the pitch - 115 Charges
« Reply #5390 on: May 13, 2024, 12:26:10 pm »
I just had an answer from Miguel Delaney over when the case might be heard. He thinks it will be around October, which fits in with the earlier rumour that it will be this autumn.
"He's trying to get right away from football. I believe he went to Everton"

Offline Andy82lfc

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,641
Re: Man City - Cheating Bastards on & off the pitch - 115 Charges
« Reply #5391 on: May 13, 2024, 12:38:22 pm »
It's already been stated by journalists following the case that its very unlikely other clubs will be awarded the trophies. I am not even sure I would want that, the moment has gone. The main point of this will be to deter others from doing the same. Should they be found guilty there is a clean slate for them to do whatever they wanted to do, from relegation, points loss etc.

I agree about handing others the trophies, not sure many would want that anyway, especially Klopp or players, but they should be 100% taken away from City.

If they don't then they will be effectively allowing trophies to be legitimately won by cheating. If that is the case then what is stopping anyone from bribing refs, doping, financially cheating or any other way to win a trophy if all that happens the year after is you get a points deduction but the trophy remains yours. It would be an absolute sham; tenfold what is already is.

Offline MH41

  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 975
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Man City - Cheating Bastards on & off the pitch - 115 Charges
« Reply #5392 on: May 13, 2024, 01:12:14 pm »
The very minute 115 made a decision to not cooperate with the Premiership they should have been thrown out of the league.

Correct.
Has there ever been another club who have told the PL that they are refusing to co-operate into a charge?

What would the press reaction be to this behaviour?
What would the pundits reaction be?

In fact, has there been a similar stance made in any other sport?
Even the language smacks of arrogance.

Offline Koplass

  • As anti-social as you could want
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,262
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Man City - Cheating Bastards on & off the pitch - 115 Charges
« Reply #5393 on: May 13, 2024, 01:20:56 pm »
Correct.
Has there ever been another club who have told the PL that they are refusing to co-operate into a charge?

What would the press reaction be to this behaviour?
What would the pundits reaction be?

In fact, has there been a similar stance made in any other sport?
Even the language smacks of arrogance.

I can only imagine what the reaction would be from other clubs and opposition fans if Liverpool refused to cooperate.

It certainly wouldn't be apathy...
"If ever a club reflected what made football the biggest sport in the country, it was Liverpool with its ground set in the bosom of the labouring working class being led by a man-of-the-people idealist in Bill Shankly."

Online JRed

  • After a 2L bottle of strongbow I’d do anything!
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,984
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Man City - Cheating Bastards on & off the pitch - 115 Charges
« Reply #5394 on: May 13, 2024, 01:22:56 pm »
I firmly believe the only reason these have not been punished yet is because they are state owned. If they are found guilty then the PL are basically calling the State of Abu Dhabi the cheating c*nts they are.
This in itself is enough reason why state ownership should not be allowed. It makes the clubs un-governable.

Offline BigCDump

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,026
  • Let's Klopp Til' We Drop
Re: Man City - Cheating Bastards on & off the pitch - 115 Charges
« Reply #5395 on: May 13, 2024, 01:32:38 pm »
I firmly believe the only reason these have not been punished yet is because they are state owned. If they are found guilty then the PL are basically calling the State of Abu Dhabi the cheating c*nts they are.
This in itself is enough reason why state ownership should not be allowed. It makes the clubs un-governable.

Which also leads to the ultimate conclusion that there will be no satisfying punishment.
Nineteen Six. Believe it now, baby!

Online JRed

  • After a 2L bottle of strongbow I’d do anything!
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,984
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Man City - Cheating Bastards on & off the pitch - 115 Charges
« Reply #5396 on: May 13, 2024, 01:40:15 pm »
Which also leads to the ultimate conclusion that there will be no satisfying punishment.
Which is why people should just fuck the game off.

Offline Red-Soldier

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,853
Re: Man City - Cheating Bastards on & off the pitch - 115 Charges
« Reply #5397 on: May 13, 2024, 01:57:41 pm »
What happened there then mate? Were they awarded to the other racers and did they actually celebrate the win etc ?

They award medals to athletes, where they were awarded to people doping.

Offline Red-Soldier

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,853
Re: Man City - Cheating Bastards on & off the pitch - 115 Charges
« Reply #5398 on: May 13, 2024, 01:59:24 pm »
The damage to the brand by not stripping them of titles will be unimaginable. You are basically saying yeah it's fine to cheat and win stuff and we'll do the square root of fcuk all about it. It will be legitimising corruption.

Football is booming mate, raking in the money. Nobody wants to upset the gravy train.

Offline Kenny's Jacket

  • Kenny's Vegan Jacket Potato. Talks more sense than me.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,112
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Man City - Cheating Bastards on & off the pitch - 115 Charges
« Reply #5399 on: May 13, 2024, 02:03:48 pm »
They award medals to athletes, where they were awarded to people doping.

am I correct in saying Ben Johnsons Gold was given to Carl Lewis when the Olympics were still on.

We should have our 2014 title given to Gerrard at half time of a City game.
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.