Topic: 115 charges for the scorched earth cheating bastards on & off the pitch

[MonsLibpool]

Are people only reading their results, and not watching their games? They have been anything but impressive this season ...

Really?

[PeterTheRed ...]

Really?

Yeah, really. They are struggling to break down even weak teams for entire halves. Their defence is nothing like the 2018/19 or the 2021/22 season. The only time they faced a good team (Arsenal in the Community Shield), they lost. People should just calm down, and wait until they play stronger opposition ...

[KevLFC]

Are people only reading their results, and not watching their games? They have been anything but impressive this season ...

Defensively they can be got at though, you just have to try and get the ball off them and stop the freak from scoring which is hard to do. I don't think they are better than last year.

[PeterTheRed ...]

Defensively they can be got at though, you just have to try and get the ball off them and stop the freak from scoring which is hard to do. I don't think they are better than last year.

Arsenal 1-1 (lost on penalties)
Burnley 3-0
Sevilla 1-1 (won on penalties)
Newcastle 1-0
Sheffield Utd 2-1
Fulham 5-1
West Ham 3-1
Red Star 3-1

There was nothing really impressive about those games ...

[MonsLibpool]

Yeah, really. They are struggling to break down even weak teams for entire halves. Their defence is nothing like the 2018/19 or the 2021/22 season. The only time they faced a good team (Arsenal in the Community Shield), they lost. People should just calm down, and wait until they play stronger opposition ...

The thing about them is:
1. They rarely get out of 2nd gear.
2. They've shown in their last two games that they can step it up and grab a goal quickly when they are behind
3. They look so comfortable when they are ahead.

[newterp]

Are people only reading their results, and not watching their games? They have been anything but impressive this season ...

I agree.

[PeterTheRed ...]

The thing about them is:
1. They rarely get out of 2nd gear.
2. They've shown in their last two games that they can step it up and grab a goal quickly when they are behind
3. They look so comfortable when they are ahead.

No opponent has had a real go at them in recent games. Hardly a surprise, considering the quality of the opposition. The only teams that were not afraid to engage them (Arsenal and Sevilla), managed to get a draw in regular time. I will wait until the cheats face some real opposition in the PL and the CL, until I proclaim them the favorites ...

[MonsLibpool]

No opponent has had a real go at them in recent games. Hardly a surprise, considering the quality of the opposition. The only teams that were not afraid to engage them (Arsenal and Sevilla), managed to get a draw in regular time. I will wait until the cheats face some real opposition in the PL and the CL, until I proclaim them the favorites ...

Westham have really improved this year and they brought their A game. Also, they don't lose many at home. Once City went ahead though, it was curtains.

[G Richards]

City so far gives reason for hope and fear.

Hope: the performance level isn’t great, they can be got at.
Fear: they’ve won every game so far and have plenty of gears to go through, as things get harder.

Fortunately we are Liverpool and we are doing things our own way, and we fear no one. I’m backing us to beat the cheating bastards to the title. 

[aussie_ox]

They're utterly reliant on Haaland.   Someone needs to take him out.   

[aussie_ox]

When are these arseholes getting charged and done for anything?

Not going to happen is it? Game's a joke. Everyone knows they are openly cheating and have been caught out and can just.... carry on cheating.

Pretty odd state of affairs.

Very revealing some of their internal club emails.   I particularly like the ones where Pearce is emailing the Abu Dhabi executive affairs authority directly about making sure it appears payments have come from various state owned entities to the club that Mansour had already paid himself.

No Man City fan anywhere can offer a good reason why an employee of Man City should be emailing the Abu Dhabi government directly about sponsorship revenue.   Their fans like to claim that all of the deals are "completely normal transactions that are above board".   Well if that were really the case then Pearce & co would be dealing directly with people at Etihad, Etisalat etc about payment of their "deals".    And there would be no need for Shekh Mansour to pay up the "deals" himself up front.   

[aussie_ox]

Just checked their website and still over 1,700 tickets for sale. £30 for and adult and £10 for u18 and they still can't shift them.

A mystery buyer from Abu Dhabi will undoubtedly buy them all for 100 quid each. 

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

Feel sorry for them at the moment. How can they possibly cope with all these injuries?

[killer-heels]

No opponent has had a real go at them in recent games. Hardly a surprise, considering the quality of the opposition. The only teams that were not afraid to engage them (Arsenal and Sevilla), managed to get a draw in regular time. I will wait until the cheats face some real opposition in the PL and the CL, until I proclaim them the favorites ...

They are favourites. They also have the highest xG scored and lowest xG conceded in the league.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Feel sorry for them at the moment. How can they possibly cope with all these injuries?

[PeterTheRed ...]

They are favourites. They also have the highest xG scored and lowest xG conceded in the league.

KH, we've discussed this before. Football is not played on paper or on a computer. We will revisit this topic once they play the stronger opponents, including us ...

[Wool]

They are favourites. They also have the highest xG scored and lowest xG conceded in the league.

Yeah but if you ignore reality they haven’t been very good.

[DelTrotter]

They are favourites. They also have the highest xG scored and lowest xG conceded in the league.

Should have from those fixtures!

[Zlen]

Then why bring the charges at all? It puts the PL under more pressure to do something, not less. If their investigation had quietly concluded that there were no charges to answer (or, let's say, just a few charges, worthy of a few mil fine and nothing more), this would already have gone away. I'm sure there are powerful political pressures being applied to try and ensure they don't get a real punishment, but now the charges are laid, the real remaining clubs - particularly ourselves, Arsenal, Man United and Spurs - will surely be taking action if this ends in a nominal fine and suspended transfer ban.

Because they felt pressured to take action, it is as simple as that. After the leaks, they simply had to do something about it. But the way I see it, PL act in the same way their referee crop does. Which means take the path of least resistance and focus primarily on self preservation. In practice this means they will go through the motions of 'doing something' - but really only up to the point where it starts demanding to actually ruffle feathers and make difficult decisions. They will not go beyond that point. And to reciprocate to City against damage they have caused - they would have to go well beyond that point. To do so would go against the above mentioned point against self-preservation. Now you can talk about City being the real danger - but they won't think of it that way. So if and when it ends up being a slap on the wrist, after years and years of prolonged fuckaboutery, some clubs (hopefully us included) will kick up a fuss over it. But it won't change much. Because right now, Manchester City are champions of England and Europe. They are the crown jewel of PL, tragic as that is. To punish them properly would cause such ruckus, it would be like severing off one's arm to get out of a trap and survive. It would require real grit and determination to face the consequences. That is not happening.

Just remember - path of least resistance + self preservation.
The outcome of this will be detarmined by that combination.

[Avens]

Because they felt pressured to take action, it is as simple as that. After the leaks, they simply had to do something about it. But the way I see it, PL act in the same way their referee crop does. Which means take the path of least resistance and focus primarily on self preservation. In practice this means they will go through the motions of 'doing something' - but really only up to the point where it starts demanding to actually ruffle feathers and make difficult decisions. They will not go beyond that point. And to reciprocate to City against damage they have caused - they would have to go well beyond that point. To do so would go against the above mentioned point against self-preservation. Now you can talk about City being the real danger - but they won't think of it that way. So if and when it ends up being a slap on the wrist, after years and years of prolonged fuckaboutery, some clubs (hopefully us included) will kick up a fuss over it. But it won't change much. Because right now, Manchester City are champions of England and Europe. They are the crown jewel of PL, tragic as that is. To punish them properly would cause such ruckus, it would be like severing off one's arm to get out of a trap and survive. It would require real grit and determination to face the consequences. That is not happening.

Just remember - path of least resistance + self preservation.
The outcome of this will be detarmined by that combination.

I get what you're saying but it's too late for that now, either way is going to ruffle feathers. Either it's Man City and both of their fans whose feathers are ruffled, or it's a combination of Liverpool, Utd, Arsenal etc who are pissed off, risking another super league type of movement (I understand that wasn't a league alternative, but who's to say the next one won't be?)

[Zlen]

I get what you're saying but it's too late for that now, either way is going to ruffle feathers. Either it's Man City and both of their fans whose feathers are ruffled, or it's a combination of Liverpool, Utd, Arsenal etc who are pissed off, risking another super league type of movement (I understand that wasn't a league alternative, but who's to say the next one won't be?)

Answer is right there, in your reply. Problem tomorrow is better than problem today. That's basically what it will boil down to for PL. It will take juggling and spinning, but they'll choose that path sooner than slamming hard on these fucks. So yeah, they will have issues with other clubs. They wlll see that as smaller problem than crucifying their champions and kicking them out of the competition - which is frankly what they deserve just for refusing to cooperate, without even looking at financial dishonesty and cheating. It's really not that complicated and it's how most of such organisations fuction anyway. Give me most money for least hassle, avoid PR disasters and spin your way out of invonvenient situations. Concepts like justice, level playing field, they don't even enter the equation. Whatever Liverpool, Arsenal etc do in the aftermath will be seen as sour grapes - they will just pass the ball of 'making a drastic decision' down to us. Which we won't do either I think.

Sorry if I'm too gloomy about this, but football has really ruined any rose tinted views I've had in recent years. I firmly believe in the most cynical, money driven outcome of any given scenario - and am unfortunately mostly right.

[markmywords]

I get what you're saying but it's too late for that now, either way is going to ruffle feathers. Either it's Man City and both of their fans whose feathers are ruffled, or it's a combination of Liverpool, Utd, Arsenal etc who are pissed off, risking another super league type of movement (I understand that wasn't a league alternative, but who's to say the next one won't be?)

The sudden OTT reaction of the fans to the European super league disarmed the big clubs and forced them to make promises they have to abide by, they wouldn't have the stomach for another potential super league backlash.  Man city's conduct is seen as small beer, the real danger is the saudi arabian league why should clubs be overly concerned about a lone pick pocketer when the prospect of armed robbers entering your house is on the horizon

[Clint Eastwood]

They were chanting 'Champions of Europe, you'll never sing that' at the Red Star Belgrade fans last night.

[Zlen]

They were chanting 'Champions of Europe, you'll never sing that' at the Red Star Belgrade fans last night.

Why would anyone be surprised they are stupid as anything.
I mean, they lose themselves on the way to the same stadium almost every week.

[JRed]

They were chanting 'Champions of Europe, you'll never sing that' at the Red Star Belgrade fans last night.

Surely not?
Fuckinghell. What a shit, sports washed fanbase.

[zero zero]

Because they felt pressured to take action, it is as simple as that. After the leaks, they simply had to do something about it. But the way I see it, PL act in the same way their referee crop does. Which means take the path of least resistance and focus primarily on self preservation. In practice this means they will go through the motions of 'doing something' - but really only up to the point where it starts demanding to actually ruffle feathers and make difficult decisions. They will not go beyond that point. And to reciprocate to City against damage they have caused - they would have to go well beyond that point. To do so would go against the above mentioned point against self-preservation. Now you can talk about City being the real danger - but they won't think of it that way. So if and when it ends up being a slap on the wrist, after years and years of prolonged fuckaboutery, some clubs (hopefully us included) will kick up a fuss over it. But it won't change much. Because right now, Manchester City are champions of England and Europe. They are the crown jewel of PL, tragic as that is. To punish them properly would cause such ruckus, it would be like severing off one's arm to get out of a trap and survive. It would require real grit and determination to face the consequences. That is not happening.

Just remember - path of least resistance + self preservation.
The outcome of this will be detarmined by that combination.

Just can't stand the absolute certainty.

Not so long ago, when it first came to light, some posters were equally certain "Nothing will happen", "City won't be charged", etc. Well, City were charged. Yet here we are again.

Just remember - path of least resistance + self preservation.

Surely your "path of least resistance" wouldn't involve a four year investigation and 115 charges?

The outcome of this will be detarmined by that combination.

Nope the outcome will be determined by the commission. If by "they" you mean the PL, "they" are the ones bringing the charges. If the PL wanted to determine the outcome they wouldn't have put the decision in the hands of a commission.

Stephen Taylor Heath, JMW head of sports law, speaking to Sky Sports News:

"The commission will have a legal representative on the panel, and you'd expect that representative to be a pretty heavyweight King's Counsel.

"Manchester City have had an obligation to comply with the Premier League's investigation and they now have an obligation to comply with the commission's procedure. If they don't comply then a dim view will be taken.

"If the charges relate to administrative errors then the sanctions will be a slap on the wrist. You would think, if the Premier League have taken it this far, they either think there is a case to answer or they've simply got to the point where they haven't been given the answers, and they're now putting it to a commission to get those answers."

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11679/12804623/man-city-premier-league-charges-explained-what-are-they-what-could-punishment-be-whats-the-timescale

[killer-heels]

KH, we've discussed this before. Football is not played on paper or on a computer. We will revisit this topic once they play the stronger opponents, including us ...

Yes but on the pitch where they do play they have pretty much racked up wins in every game bar the Charity Shield.

Of course their fixtures could have been harder, but we are not now saying that they cant handle the big teams as well can they?

[Zlen]

Just can't stand the absolute certainty.

Not so long ago, when it first came to light, some posters were equally certain "Nothing will happen", "City won't be charged", etc. Well, City were charged. Yet here we are again.
Surely your "path of least resistance" wouldn't involve a four year investigation and 115 charges?
Nope the outcome will be determined by the commission. If by "they" you mean the PL, "they" are the ones bringing the charges. If the PL wanted to determine the outcome they wouldn't have put the decision in the hands of a commission.

Well, yeah, I'm a pessimist on this one.
Obviously not certain, but pretty sure it will fizzle out in a way that does not resolve the underlying issue or deliver a proper punishment.
Four years and 115 charges doesn't really mean much - it's certainly no evidence in itself of a thourough and well done job and a solid foundation to nail them.

One thing is definitely certain, it will drag on for years, both the ongoing process and the inevitable appeal.
During this time - their profile will grow, making them even more untouchable.

[BoRed]

They were chanting 'Champions of Europe, you'll never sing that' at the Red Star Belgrade fans last night.

Do you have any footage of that?

[Egyptian36]

Just can't stand the absolute certainty.

Not so long ago, when it first came to light, some posters were equally certain "Nothing will happen", "City won't be charged", etc. Well, City were charged. Yet here we are again.
Surely your "path of least resistance" wouldn't involve a four year investigation and 115 charges?
Nope the outcome will be determined by the commission. If by "they" you mean the PL, "they" are the ones bringing the charges. If the PL wanted to determine the outcome they wouldn't have put the decision in the hands of a commission.

Stephen Taylor Heath, JMW head of sports law, speaking to Sky Sports News:

"The commission will have a legal representative on the panel, and you'd expect that representative to be a pretty heavyweight King's Counsel.

"Manchester City have had an obligation to comply with the Premier League's investigation and they now have an obligation to comply with the commission's procedure. If they don't comply then a dim view will be taken.

"If the charges relate to administrative errors then the sanctions will be a slap on the wrist. You would think, if the Premier League have taken it this far, they either think there is a case to answer or they've simply got to the point where they haven't been given the answers, and they're now putting it to a commission to get those answers."

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11679/12804623/man-city-premier-league-charges-explained-what-are-they-what-could-punishment-be-whats-the-timescale

Yet they allowed Newcastle to be owned by a country and self sponsor themselves like what City did. What does this tell you ?

The leaks, clubs , fans , UEFA case and City refusing to cooperate basically saying fk you the Premier League meant they had no choice but to charge them. City cheated, it's part of their early strategy , they had to cheat and the PL knows they cheated and both parties want this to be settled just like what Pep asked for. What will certainly happen is that City will get away with it with light punishment that won't effect their dominance, this means their plan is done they established themselves and it's over nobody can say anything and also it means the PL won't be under pressure anymore.

Anyone who thinks City will be excluded or get punishments that will effect their long term future is dreaming. It will be something they will be happy with and gladly take it.

[zero zero]

Four years and 115 charges doesn't really mean much - it's certainly no evidence in itself of a thourough and well done job and a solid foundation to nail them.

What is it then?

City are accused of 50 breaches of providing inaccurate financial information, eight breaches in relation to manager remuneration from 2009 to 2013, 12 breaches in relation to player remuneration from 2010 to 2015, five breaches linked to UEFA financial regulations, 25 profitability and sustainability breaches and 30 breaches of assisting the Premier League investigation, which dates back to March 2019. If found guilty, City face punishments ranging from fines and points deductions to expulsion from the league, making the stakes incredibly high.

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/37698153/manchester-city-premier-league-title-win-comes-looming-charges

There's too much there to just try and sweep this under the rug

[zero zero]

Yet they allowed Newcastle to be owned by a country and self sponsor themselves like what City did. What does this tell you ?

The leaks, clubs , fans , UEFA case and City refusing to cooperate basically saying fk you the Premier League meant they had no choice but to charge them. City cheated, it's part of their early strategy , they had to cheat and the PL knows they cheated and both parties want this to be settled just like what Pep asked for. What will certainly happen is that City will get away with it with light punishment that won't effect their dominance, this means their plan is done they established themselves and it's over nobody can say anything and also it means the PL won't be under pressure anymore.

Anyone who thinks City will be excluded or get punishments that will effect their long term future is dreaming. It will be something they will be happy with and gladly take it.

That word again

[Zlen]

What is it then?

City are accused of 50 breaches of providing inaccurate financial information, eight breaches in relation to manager remuneration from 2009 to 2013, 12 breaches in relation to player remuneration from 2010 to 2015, five breaches linked to UEFA financial regulations, 25 profitability and sustainability breaches and 30 breaches of assisting the Premier League investigation, which dates back to March 2019. If found guilty, City face punishments ranging from fines and points deductions to expulsion from the league, making the stakes incredibly high.

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/37698153/manchester-city-premier-league-title-win-comes-looming-charges

There's too much there to just try and sweep this under the rug

It doesn't need to be, and won't be swept under a rug. From City's perspective, it needs to be diluted, twisted, misinterpreted and challenged from various angles. They have world's best lawyers to do that. From PL's perspective it needs to be proven and validated. Which is kinda hard to do when the subject in question refuses to cooperate with the investigation. One charge lost can drag 10 others down the drain, lot of it is interconnected, with similar documents used as evidence.

PL have a mountain to climb even if they have all the will in the world to make this right.
The scope of these charges doesn't warrant a positive outcome in itself.

[BarryCrocker]

What is it then?

City are accused of 50 breaches of providing inaccurate financial information, eight breaches in relation to manager remuneration from 2009 to 2013, 12 breaches in relation to player remuneration from 2010 to 2015, five breaches linked to UEFA financial regulations, 25 profitability and sustainability breaches and 30 breaches of assisting the Premier League investigation, which dates back to March 2019. If found guilty, City face punishments ranging from fines and points deductions to expulsion from the league, making the stakes incredibly high.

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/37698153/manchester-city-premier-league-title-win-comes-looming-charges

There's too much there to just try and sweep this under the rug

That article was released exactly 6 months ago to the day and still nothing about what's happening next.

[zero zero]

That article was released exactly 6 months ago to the day and still nothing about what's happening next.

The commission will be conducted behind closed doors. It's confidential. So there's nothing to report.

The verdict will be posted on the PL website.

[Bobinhood]

Yeah, really. They are struggling to break down even weak teams for entire halves. Their defence is nothing like the 2018/19 or the 2021/22 season. The only time they faced a good team (Arsenal in the Community Shield), they lost. People should just calm down, and wait until they play stronger opposition ...

I told everybody they were well due to come off the boil this year and i stand by it. Human nature remains human nature. Simply put, I think teams will be able to out hustle them this year. Almost impossible to keep the motivation levels going, just like us last year. 

[Jookie]

I told everybody they were well due to come off the boil this year and i stand by it. Human nature remains human nature. Simply put, I think teams will be able to out hustle them this year. Almost impossible to keep the motivation levels going, just like us last year. 

Won 5 out of 5 in League.

Won 1st CL group game

Won European Super Cup

I get that their performances may be down but results wise they’ve started the season as well as can be expected.

We’ve heard talk of the regressing virtually every seasons and generally it’s been a false dawn. Unless you break their spirit with 15-20 wins on the bounce then they’ll always be likely to title challengers.

City are a team well capable of getting +90 points if being chased. Even if they regress this season what is their floor in terms of PL points? 85? One other team (us in 2021/22) has broken 85 points in last 3 seasons.

I look at the rest of the PL teams and find it hard to predict with high confidence that any other team will get over 85 points this season. I think it’s possible for a few teams but likelihood is low at this point.

Therefore even if City regress they are still favourites for the PL, domestic cups and CL at this point. Not worth trying to convince yourself otherwise.

For Liverpool I think we need to be aiming for minimum of 56 points after 28 games. 56-60 after 28 gives you a real chance in those last 10 games to go on a run and end up in that 85-90 point bracket. Even if you falter a bit getting to 72-76 points and Too 4 should be achievable. Got 13 from 5 so I’d be booing for minimum of 43 from next 23 games.

[rossipersempre]

I will wait until the cheats face some real opposition in the PL and the CL, until I proclaim them the favorites ...

I will wait until the cheats face some real opposition in the PL and the CL, until I proclaim them the favorites ...

Such a common turn of phrase after all, absolutely nothing to see here.

[MonsLibpool]

I told everybody they were well due to come off the boil this year and i stand by it. Human nature remains human nature. Simply put, I think teams will be able to out hustle them this year. Almost impossible to keep the motivation levels going, just like us last year.

They don't look like coming off the boil. They are literally winning games on autopilot and they can step it up if needed. This is without De Bruyne.  Even if Haaland had a long layoff, they'd still be winning because they don't really "need" him.

[ScouserAtHeart]

Got 13 from 5 so I’d be booing for minimum of 43 from next 23 games.

I'd actually say that'd be disappointing. That'd just be 12-13 wins in 23

Unless you actually meant booing and that's not a typo