Topic: Arsenal: Top of the divers league

[JRed]

That what you pay the big bucks for. To elevate you from second to second.

To be fair, it has enabled Arsenal to be in a thrilling title race where no one knows how it’s going to end on Sunday

[Yorkykopite]

That what you pay the big bucks for. To elevate you from second to second.

Snigger.

[Jookie]

Their defence is miles better, Rice makes their midfield better than others and the forward lines are hard to pick between.

Are Arsenal’s defenders better than ours man for man?

Defensively they are better as a team but that’s probably down to coaching and personnel in other positions.

Arsenal have a much stronger 2nd centre back than us currently. 2 of their centre mids are currently better than any of the midfielders we have.

I think we have a better GK and better depth in midfield and up front.

I think Arsenal are a better drilled team currently. Partly due to their coach but also partly due to where they are in the team development cycle versus us.

People don’t like Arteta for obvious reasons but Arsenal are extremely well coached. The defensive stability whilst scoring freely and scoring consistently from set pieces are testament to that.

[coolbyrne]

surprised to see Arsenal labelled set-piece specialists to be honest.

do the stats bear that out?

I'd like to know how many set pieces they took, because goals are only an end to a means. It seemed like they were diving and falling over to get an inordinate amount of set pieces, but that might be selective 'facts' on my part.

[Gili Gulu]

Their defence is miles better, Rice makes their midfield better than others and the forward lines are hard to pick between.

Their defence has had more or less the same key players available all season, and their no 6 to shield them

Our back 4 has had to constantly change, we've had Trent and Robbo out for months, Konate constantly in and out, Matip out with an ACL, we had Alisson out for months, and we've played dozens of games with two or more kids in Quansah and Bradley.

We also lost Endo for a couple of months to the Asian Cup. We've had to play a no.8 as a 6 in Mac Allister who ran out of steam at the end because we had so many injuries to midfielders and he had to play practically every game.

We also lost our two best finishers in Jota and Salah for large parts of the season.

[The North Bank]

Some of it is tactical, you push a lot more players forward, both full backs bomb on at the same time. We are a bit more balanced in keeping players back to stop counters.

[newterp]

Are Arsenal’s defenders better than ours man for man?

Defensively they are better as a team but that’s probably down to coaching and personnel in other positions.

Arsenal have a much stronger 2nd centre back than us currently. 2 of their centre mids are currently better than any of the midfielders we have.

I think we have a better GK and better depth in midfield and up front.

I think Arsenal are a better drilled team currently. Partly due to their coach but also partly due to where they are in the team development cycle versus us.

People don’t like Arteta for obvious reasons but Arsenal are extremely well coached. The defensive stability whilst scoring freely and scoring consistently from set pieces are testament to that.

Nothing to think about on this one. Rest of your post is probably accurate - whether we care to admit it or not.

[Andar]

I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up with fewer points next season.

Almost everything went right for them this season, and it still wasn't enough. Their best season in decades (that too following a huge bottle job the year before). That will take a toll on everyone. They likely won't be as lucky with injuries and key players missing for opposition teams next year.

Sounds like wishful thinking.

Actually expect the opposite. They will use the heartbreak and get off to a flyer like a certain other side did in 19/20. City will have there customary slow first half to the season but think the gap will be too big to catch up on compared to this season.

I also think City had the drive to win 4 in a row and become the first club to do so. Foden did say how there was a sign up in the training ground with the quote 'No club has ever won 4 in a row...... yet.'.

They have clearly used that as fuel in the run-in but I think next season will be a step too far. 5 in a row is a seriously big ask in a league as demanding as the PL. Think we might start seeing the likes of Walker, Silva and De Bruyne drop off. There is also the potential for Guardiola to call an announcement mid-season that he is leaving. It's his last year and he is yet to renew. A few of his recent interviews, he has given indications that he might not stay any longer. Not to forget the charges will be coming to a head at the end of the season too.

It will be there for a side to take advantage of all of that. Arsenal are best placed to do so.

[Kalito]

That was completely different. That was about Klopp wanting to reinforce the connection between the players and the fans. Also to remind the fans about staying with the team until the final whistle.

Exactly.

How that moment is still lost on Liverpool fans after nearly 9 years is fucking astonishing ...

[The North Bank]

Sounds like wishful thinking.

Actually expect the opposite. They will use the heartbreak and get off to a flyer like a certain other side did in 19/20. City will have there customary slow first half to the season but think the gap will be too big to catch up on compared to this season.

I also think City had the drive to win 4 in a row and become the first club to do so. Foden did say how there was a sign up in the training ground with the quote 'No club has ever won 4 in a row...... yet.'.

They have clearly used that as fuel in the run-in but I think next season will be a step too far. 5 in a row is a seriously big ask in a league as demanding as the PL. Think we might start seeing the likes of Walker, Silva and De Bruyne drop off. There is also the potential for Guardiola to call an announcement mid-season that he is leaving. It's his last year and he is yet to renew. A few of his recent interviews, he has given indications that he might not stay any longer. Not to forget the charges will be coming to a head at the end of the season too.

It will be there for a side to take advantage of all of that.

Thats more like it !

[BigBrainArteta]

I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up with fewer points next season.

Almost everything went right for them this season, and it still wasn't enough. Their best season in decades (that too following a huge bottle job the year before). That will take a toll on everyone. They likely won't be as lucky with injuries and key players missing for opposition teams next year.

I reckon we will get more points. Many players still in the development stage. Plus Arteta will clear more deadwood form the squad and stack it even further. There will be no sales of players we want to keep, and we will invest in the team again.

[JRed]

I reckon we will get more points. Many players still in the development stage. Plus Arteta will clear more deadwood form the squad and stack it even further. There will be no sales of players we want to keep, and we will invest in the team again.

…and still end up winning fuck all

[AthleticClub]

I reckon we will get more points. Many players still in the development stage. Plus Arteta will clear more deadwood form the squad and stack it even further. There will be no sales of players we want to keep, and we will invest in the team again.

Really interesting analysis my friend. Based on a clear and comprehensive balance of the data. Nothing at all to do with those arsenal coloured spectacles you wear.

I've got a counter argument for you. Arsenal drop off slightly next year as their historic run of penalties dries up, teams adjust defensively from set pieces against them and the amount of yards put in your starting eleven this year catches up. Oh and City win the league and you win fuck all again.

Objectively, which one of these do you think is the more likely.

[killer-heels]

Are Arsenal’s defenders better than ours man for man?

Defensively they are better as a team but that’s probably down to coaching and personnel in other positions.

Arsenal have a much stronger 2nd centre back than us currently. 2 of their centre mids are currently better than any of the midfielders we have.

I think we have a better GK and better depth in midfield and up front.

I think Arsenal are a better drilled team currently. Partly due to their coach but also partly due to where they are in the team development cycle versus us.

People don’t like Arteta for obvious reasons but Arsenal are extremely well coached. The defensive stability whilst scoring freely and scoring consistently from set pieces are testament to that.

You can question which squad is better but what Arsenal do have is time on the side of their best players. Saliba, Rice, Odegaard and Saka are 25 or under whereas Alisson, Trent, Robbo, Van Dijk and Salah, all but Trent are 30 or over. Once those players start to have their powers wane and leave then their squad is far stronger.

Fact is we have to start bringing in the next lot of absolute top quality in our team and no signing since 2022 (and you could argue before that) has shown enough to be of the same level as the class of 2018.

[BigBrainArteta]

Really interesting analysis my friend. Based on a clear and comprehensive balance of the data. Nothing at all to do with those arsenal coloured spectacles you wear.

I've got a counter argument for you. Arsenal drop off slightly next year as their historic run of penalties dries up, teams adjust defensively from set pieces against them and the amount of yards put in your starting eleven this year catches up. Oh and City win the league and you win fuck all again.

Objectively, which one of these do you think is the more likely.

Our squad will be better next year than it will be this year. Performances will not 'drop off'. We are a drilled team. We dont play on vibes and feels. Everyone has a position to be in and role to play in and out of possession. Arteta is a 'control freak', Arteta does 'overcoach' and that's a good thing form an Arsenal perspective. There is no 'chance' or 'luck' in our style. Are we lucky we concede so few shots, or is it because we are set up to deny the opposition chances?

As for teams adjusting defensively against us on set pieces. Its been common knowledge since the half year point that we are good on set pieces. Do you think teams are going to spend the entire off season developing a counter set piece routine for their 2 matches against Arsenal? I think Nicolas Jover is ahead of the curve when it comes to the deadball, maybe he has more ideas and we score more set piece goals?

[ScottishGoon]

Think to beat City, you basically have to aim for 30 wins in the league. That's basically the standards they set. That's quite mental when you think about it.

Th only team to beat them for a title, basically had a season to the equivalent of our first half of the season last season, and our 2nd half of the season this. Ridiculous really.

[DangerScouse]

Think to beat City, you basically have to aim for 30 wins in the league. That's basically the standards they set. That's quite mental when you think about it.

Th only team to beat them for a title, basically had a season to the equivalent of our first half of the season last season, and our 2nd half of the season this. Ridiculous really.

Wasn't good enough for us when we got 97 points!

[killer-heels]

Think to beat City, you basically have to aim for 30 wins in the league. That's basically the standards they set. That's quite mental when you think about it.

Th only team to beat them for a title, basically had a season to the equivalent of our first half of the season last season, and our 2nd half of the season this. Ridiculous really.

Goes back to last season, you had put a fair distance between yourselves and them by the half way stage. If that were us, I think City believe its done and start putting their eggs in other baskets. Because it was you they probably did think you would mess up a bit.

Your going to have to do that again. If you do get a decent lead next season then its likely City give up.

I have said before that the league needs to look at that and see what a joke it is. They cant even use the line “oh liverpool have done it” because what we did is win 26 out of the first 27 games, which is a joke really.

[Crosby Nick]

Wasn't good enough for us when we got 97 points!

30 wins, 7 draws and 1 defeat.

And then some miserable c*nts moaned that we drew too many like what we did wasn’t exceptional!

Think Arsenal have won more this season than they ever have, is that right? Win on Sunday and it’ll be 28-5-5. That’s very solid and doesn’t leave a lot of wriggle room for upside. A couple of unexpected draws somewhere, being on the ring end of a couple of tight games (drawing twice with City or us for example). Have two or three results like that next year and you find you don’t really have a lot of poor results from this season to make up the difference the other way.

Arsenal look strong and they’re not going to drop but as we know, you can’t say with certainty that every year will bring an incremental improvement.

[spider-neil]

Our defensive problems is more down to structure than personnel.
Arsenal and City ensure there is a set number of players behind the ball at every phase. If they aren't set to deal with a turnover at any given moment they continue to recycle the ball.
Mac was a perfect example on Monday, we weren't set to deal with a turnover given the position of defensive shape and Mac made the pass anyway.

The data bears this out, we create more chances than Arsenal and City but we allow too many (quality) chances at our goal. We need to address that because if we don't no DM is fixing that as the gaps are to great to cover.

[BigBrainArteta]

Wasn't good enough for us when we got 97 points!

I get the feeling Pep might be winging down. He is 53 and has spent almost a decade in Manchester. Its a long time to spend away from home. Its also one of the reasons I think Klopp is leaving Liverpool - almost a decade in a foreign country is a long time. I also think Pep might want to get out before any FFP shit happens.

So in that regard, Arsenal might be lucky, that we didn't have to face peak City for so long, and Arteta might get to face a Post Pep City, maybe even a City that had its wings clipped due to FFP rigging. Had Liverpool's peak Klopp cycle came a few years later, or earlier, Klopp could have really cleaned up.

That's why I caution nervous Arsenal fans who think we need to nosebleed a 'proven' manager who has 'won sumthin', as Arteta is only 42, and the worst thing we could do is bin this elite manager in the making, on the basis he 'cant get it over the line' then the line is the highest hurdle in world football. As I reckon finishing ahead of City over 38 games is the highest achievement in the modern game. Only Klopp has done it, it about 6 attempts. I dont count Conte, as he did it in Peps first year when Pep had not yet moulded City in his image.

Thats what some melt Arsenal fans say - 'get me a manager who can 'get it done'', then they shit out names like Tuchel, Conte, Flick, even that overrated Simeone. None of those managers could take a PL club and beat City and Pep over 38 games.

[Schmarn]

The other factor here is that Arsenal’s owners have given Arteta better backing than ours have to Klopp. After winning the league they let the team stagnate and get older which led to the disaster of 22/23. If we had Rice and they had Endo we’d have won the league this year.

Arsenal are not going to go away but equally they had very few injuries to the spine of their team and that’s likely to change at some point. They desperately need bench depth as I don’t think they could survive if they lost any of Gabriel, Saliba, Rice or Odegaard.

Hopefully we both get a mid season boost with City getting stripped and thrown out of the league.

[DelTrotter]

Sounds like wishful thinking.

You would know to be fair 

[Crosby Nick]

Big summer ahead for a lot of their players too. Rice will start every England game at thr Euros. Saka might too. That’s probably at least 5 games and a late return of England get to the semis. Saliba and Havertz too, maybe Trossard? Gabriel will be off to the Copa.

Some of them could return not 100% or have a slower start to the season. Don’t think we’ll have so many starters involved at the Euros. The Copa could be a bit troublesome for us.

[killer-heels]

Big summer ahead for a lot of their players too. Rice will start every England game at thr Euros. Saka might too. That’s probably at least 5 games and a late return of England get to the semis. Saliba and Havertz too, maybe Trossard? Gabriel will be off to the Copa.

Some of them could return not 100% or have a slower start to the season. Don’t think we’ll have so many starters involved at the Euros. The Copa could be a bit troublesome for us.

Off the top of my head we will have Alisson, Van Dijk, Robbo, Mac Allister, Szobozslai, Diaz, Nunez, Gakpo, Jota, Konate as starters for their sides. Trent will also get a good amount of game time as well.

[AthleticClub]

I get the feeling Pep might be winging down. He is 53 and has spent almost a decade in Manchester. Its a long time to spend away from home. Its also one of the reasons I think Klopp is leaving Liverpool - almost a decade in a foreign country is a long time. I also think Pep might want to get out before any FFP shit happens.

So in that regard, Arsenal might be lucky, that we didn't have to face peak City for so long, and Arteta might get to face a Post Pep City, maybe even a City that had its wings clipped due to FFP rigging. Had Liverpool's peak Klopp cycle came a few years later, or earlier, Klopp could have really cleaned up.

That's why I caution nervous Arsenal fans who think we need to nosebleed a 'proven' manager who has 'won sumthin', as Arteta is only 42, and the worst thing we could do is bin this elite manager in the making, on the basis he 'cant get it over the line' then the line is the highest hurdle in world football. As I reckon finishing ahead of City over 38 games is the highest achievement in the modern game. Only Klopp has done it, it about 6 attempts. I dont count Conte, as he did it in Peps first year when Pep had not yet moulded City in his image.

Thats what some melt Arsenal fans say - 'get me a manager who can 'get it done'', then they shit out names like Tuchel, Conte, Flick, even that overrated Simeone. None of those managers could take a PL club and beat City and Pep over 38 games.

Which one of you has created this account? I've been had here. You sir are a parody

to summarise
- City will fall off
- There's no way Arsenal aren't better next year
- Arteta is a better manager than Premier League, La Liga, Champions League winning managers
- Nothing Arsenal have 'achieved' this year is a result of fortunate circumstances.

[BigCDump]

Off the top of my head we will have Alisson, Van Dijk, Robbo, Mac Allister, Szobozslai, Diaz, Nunez, Gakpo, Jota, Konate as starters for their sides. Trent will also get a good amount of game time as well.

Yep agreed. The difference is we are expected to fight for top four next season, i.e. 70 odd points. Arsenal need to break the 90 point barrier which they haven't managed once yet.

Getting to play with the big boys is easy-ish, keeping pace with the big boys is far from.

[PaulF]

Will Rice and Saka follow Southgate to old Trafford

I can imagine Arsenal praying for an early England exit so their players can get a rest.

[rob1966]

Will Rice and Saka follow Southgate to old Trafford

I can imagine Arsenal praying for an early England exit so their players can get a rest.

Semi finals it is then

[Crosby Nick]

Off the top of my head we will have Alisson, Van Dijk, Robbo, Mac Allister, Szobozslai, Diaz, Nunez, Gakpo, Jota, Konate as starters for their sides. Trent will also get a good amount of game time as well.

Not sure if all those will start. Konate has lost form and Jota’s injury mean they might not play as much as they once looked like. And I can’t see Trent getting many minutes under the current set up. The likes of Robbo and Dom should get a couple of weeks extra break than the English/French/German contingent too.

[MonsLibpool]

Only Arsenal will improve. Everybody else will fall off or continue to be shit

For example, if Chelsea get a better number 9, who knows? They play decent football.

[rob1966]

Only Arsenal will improve. Everybody else will fall off or continue to be shit

For example, if Chelsea get a better number 9, who knows? They play decent football.

So blinkered, they're discounting us and I think they're in for a rude awakening

[rushyman]

That Son chance will be burned into their souls for life

I wasn't watching the Leicester game so I missed Iheanacho chance. Have never watched it, don't need another near miss on loop in my head. Got enough

[The North Bank]

30 wins, 7 draws and 1 defeat.

And then some miserable c*nts moaned that we drew too many like what we did wasn’t exceptional!

Think Arsenal have won more this season than they ever have, is that right? Win on Sunday and it’ll be 28-5-5. That’s very solid and doesn’t leave a lot of wriggle room for upside. A couple of unexpected draws somewhere, being on the ring end of a couple of tight games (drawing twice with City or us for example). Have two or three results like that next year and you find you don’t really have a lot of poor results from this season to make up the difference the other way.

Arsenal look strong and they’re not going to drop but as we know, you can’t say with certainty that every year will bring an incremental improvement.

If we get 97 points and not win the league doubt ill ever watch football again

[Crosby Nick]

If we get 97 points and not win the league doubt ill ever watch football again

I think some of the points being made by the Arsenal fans here are valid. I think if anyone gets 97 next season they’ll be winning the league.

[The North Bank]

Big summer ahead for a lot of their players too. Rice will start every England game at thr Euros. Saka might too. That’s probably at least 5 games and a late return of England get to the semis. Saliba and Havertz too, maybe Trossard? Gabriel will be off to the Copa.

Some of them could return not 100% or have a slower start to the season. Don’t think we’ll have so many starters involved at the Euros. The Copa could be a bit troublesome for us.

Doesnt Konate start ahead of Saliba for France

Odegaard with another summer off

[The North Bank]

I think some of the points being made by the Arsenal fans here are valid. I think if anyone gets 97 next season they’ll be winning the league.

Yeh im hoping for a slight drop off by the cheats , in before they sign Florian Wirtz…

Really hoping next season is Peps last , that could be a game changer

[killer-heels]

Not sure if all those will start. Konate has lost form and Jota’s injury mean they might not play as much as they once looked like. And I can’t see Trent getting many minutes under the current set up. The likes of Robbo and Dom should get a couple of weeks extra break than the English/French/German contingent too.

Konate has been first choice for a while and Deschamps sticks with those he trusts. Jota may get games off the bench but he will be first or second sub for them.

[The North Bank]

Will Rice and Saka follow Southgate to old Trafford

I can imagine Arsenal praying for an early England exit so their players can get a rest.

They should all do a ben white

[The North Bank]

Will Rice and Saka follow Southgate to old Trafford

I can imagine Arsenal praying for an early England exit so their players can get a rest.

That is the worry. Its not just our players though. Gaz is a one off, hes like the English Klopp, without the trophies, the good football, the charm and intelligence.