Topic: Arsenal: Top of the divers league

[Vegeta]

Setting banter aside, it's worth noting that people wrote them off too quickly after back-to-back defeats when they didn't even play poorly and were simply unlucky. Additionally, they have rarely been outplayed and have dominated most of the games they've played this season. So, I think they can be contenders until the end.

Arsenal seems to be spreading the goals out. I believe Gabriel and Saliba together have scored six league goals together. Everyone is chipping in, and they have scored over 50 goals in the league.

[Tonyh8su]

Credit to the Liverpool team of 2020-2022. We learned their importance from you.

And your chants, songs and manager celebrations.

[Buster Gonad]

Those set pieces of theirs are pretty damn good. I know Al thinks they're a waste if time. I disagree. I hope Liverpool start thinking a bit more intelligently about our own.

Really struck me against West ham.  They make man marking virtually impossible.  They're the number one team for set pieces and it isn't because they have the best group of players in the air.

[Crosby Nick]

Really struck me against West ham.  They make man marking virtually impossible.  They're the number one team for set pieces and it isn't because they have the best group of players in the air.

What are they doing that’s different? Don’t really watch them apart from against us.

[Terry de Niro]

What are they doing that’s different? Don’t really watch them apart from against us.

Lobbing the ball into the box, innit..

[amir87]

What are they doing that’s different? Don’t really watch them apart from against us.

Lots of variations in terms of positioning in the box and they mix it up a lot between long and short set pieces so hard for a defence to predict.

It’s all pretty clever and clearly effective but not something other teams shouldn’t be capable of doing if they also put the work in in training.

I remember when we won the league it felt like a set piece got us going on several occasions rather than simply ripping teams open each time.

[Yorkykopite]

For a few weeks it seemed like we werent playing football just trying to get set pieces. Last few games weve played with a lot more purpose and set pieces have been a great bonus to have.

We owed west ham this, 25 shots last time and lost 0-2. They couldnt ride their luck every time.

Don't get too carried away again. There's still a lot of falling down for nothing and clutching of faces. Throw-ins that take for ever etc. You had no reason to waste time in the second half today so you didn't. But it'll be business as usual next week.

[BigBrainArteta]

Much more impressed with the defensive performance. Its not the first time we have shut a team out and reduced them to almost zero quality chances.

We have conceded the least amount of goals and have 9 clean sheets which is the most amount of clean sheets. David Raya is a strong candidate for the golden glove despite the fact he has played less games than those around him. Raya is also starting to settle as the Raya v Ramsdale stuff dies down. Ramsdale will be sold in the summer

This Arsenal team is built differently to former Arsenal teams, even last years. Most people think of Arsenal as a team that plays free flowing attacking football, entertaining football ect. However this team plays less adventurous football and controls the game much better, we dont allow teams to have a string of quality chances against us. Three things we do very well; control the ball for long periods of the game starving the other team of possession, have an excellent and disciplined off the ball shape with 10 outfield players willing to work hard (none of this Rashford jogging back shit), a fantastic press that can win the ball back soon after losing it. I would say our best players this year have been Saliba, Rice, Gabriel; not Saka, Odegaard or Martinelli.

Most Arsenal fans were not happy with Arteta for changing our style from last year; however its necessary to evolve from a 'good entertaining team', to a team capable of competing and winning the bigger prizes. We are much more tactical and deliberate with patterns of play and a strong structure, as opposed to the free flowing football we were often associated with

Ive said it before, Arteta is a top manager with strong tactical acumen. Like his mate Xabi, he is going to be one of the more in demand managers in the future, and keeping him at the club is critical for Arsenal. Contrast to the lemons who suggested/suggest Arsenal need a new manager to 'go the final step'.

[Bullet500]

It's Granit Xhaka and Grimaldo who transformed Leverkusen. Xabi Alonso is no doubt a great coach, however.

[The North Bank]

Much more impressed with the defensive performance. Its not the first time we have shut a team out and reduced them to almost zero quality chances.

We have conceded the least amount of goals and have 9 clean sheets which is the most amount of clean sheets. David Raya is a strong candidate for the golden glove despite the fact he has played less games than those around him. Raya is also starting to settle as the Raya v Ramsdale stuff dies down. Ramsdale will be sold in the summer

This Arsenal team is built differently to former Arsenal teams, even last years. Most people think of Arsenal as a team that plays free flowing attacking football, entertaining football ect. However this team plays less adventurous football and controls the game much better, we dont allow teams to have a string of quality chances against us. Three things we do very well; control the ball for long periods of the game starving the other team of possession, have an excellent and disciplined off the ball shape with 10 outfield players willing to work hard (none of this Rashford jogging back shit), a fantastic press that can win the ball back soon after losing it. I would say our best players this year have been Saliba, Rice, Gabriel; not Saka, Odegaard or Martinelli.

Most Arsenal fans were not happy with Arteta for changing our style from last year; however its necessary to evolve from a 'good entertaining team', to a team capable of competing and winning the bigger prizes. We are much more tactical and deliberate with patterns of play and a strong structure, as opposed to the free flowing football we were often associated with

Ive said it before, Arteta is a top manager with strong tactical acumen. Like his mate Xabi, he is going to be one of the more in demand managers in the future, and keeping him at the club is critical for Arsenal. Contrast to the lemons who suggested/suggest Arsenal need a new manager to 'go the final step'.

Totally agree, though i think calls for emery shouldve stayed and spurs will finish above us were more banter than serious thoughts.

[ScottishGoon]

It's Granit Xhaka and Grimaldo who transformed Leverkusen. Xabi Alonso is no doubt a great coach, however.

Not sure i totally agree. Alonso had totally changed them at the 2nd half of last season without those players. Xhaka, Grimaldo & Boniface just helped take them on further.

Wirtz is special mind you. Whoever signs him is getting a great talent.

[The North Bank]

What are they doing that’s different? Don’t really watch them apart from against us.

Delivery is key, weve put in some great crosses with pace. Also positionally it seems some players pull away at the far post so they can ran up and attack the ball rather than jumping from the standing position, the rest of the players block the defenders to clear their way.

[PaulF]

Delivery is key, weve put in some great crosses with pace. Also positionally it seems some players pull away at the far post so they can ran up and attack the ball rather than jumping from the standing position, the rest of the players block the defenders to clear their way.

Sounds like American football tactics!

[Elzar]

This is a great chance for them to win the Champions League. They can beat city at home, not sure too many of the other teams could! Arsenal probably have the best defensive set up too, so would all be down to them keeping their nerve against the traditional bigger clubs.

[Bullet500]

This is a great chance for them to win the Champions League. They can beat city at home, not sure too many of the other teams could! Arsenal probably have the best defensive set up too, so would all be down to them keeping their nerve against the traditional bigger clubs.

idk.. I don't think we are at that level yet.

[Redley]

Its good for us to have as many teams as possible motivated when they play Abu Dhabi, teams like Arsenal, Villa, United and Spurs could all still take points off them and do us a massive favour. The set pieces especially from Arsenal look like they could cause them big problems.

[Elzar]

idk.. I don't think we are at that level yet.

The rest of the competition isn’t amazing, Arsenal are performing as well as anybody left in it currently.
 
Not sure that will be the case next season, with continues improvement and some big clubs wanting to push on further.

[The North Bank]

The rest of the competition isn’t amazing, Arsenal are performing as well as anybody left in it currently.
 
Not sure that will be the case next season, with continues improvement and some big clubs wanting to push on further.

I only see city and real as better than us, so a lot of it will be about the draw, but one game at a time.

[RedG13]

idk.. I don't think we are at that level yet.

I mean Arsenal then 2nd or 3rd best team in there with the best Defense which helps more in terms of winning a knock out comp then winning a league(Goals matter more in terms of winning league then goals allowed).
Arsenal imo has a better shot at CL then PL.

[amir87]

Would be good for us to see City and Arsenal come up against each other in the next round.

Two legged matches against another English club can be very draining.

[The North Bank]

Lets not underestimate Porto, they have a bigger European pedigree than us.

[Redley]

Lets not underestimate Porto, they have a bigger European pedigree than us.

Its a pretty short list in the knockouts of clubs that dont tick that box to be fair. Copenhagen, Sociedad and Red Bull?

[mainone]

how are they getting away with consistent blocking and knocking the goalies

[amir87]

Lets not underestimate Porto, they have a bigger European pedigree than us.

They might do but quality wise you're much better.

Had a quick look at the teams still in it and it's actually one of the weakest I can remember for some time. Even Bayern aren't anywhere close to what they used to be.

The only two I'd be worried about would be Real Madrid and Man City. I can see why some say you're third favourites.

[Persephone]

This is a great chance for them to win the Champions League. They can beat city at home, not sure too many of the other teams could! Arsenal probably have the best defensive set up too, so would all be down to them keeping their nerve against the traditional bigger clubs.

Nice...did you get any nibbles?

[MonsLibpool]

This is a great chance for them to win the Champions League. They can beat city at home, not sure too many of the other teams could! Arsenal probably have the best defensive set up too, so would all be down to them keeping their nerve against the traditional bigger clubs.

If they avoid the best team i.e City before the final because anything can happen in a one-off game. I don't see them beating City over two legs.

[The North Bank]

Its a pretty short list in the knockouts of clubs that dont tick that box to be fair. Copenhagen, Sociedad and Red Bull?

We are massively overachieving just being there, all down to Arteta

[The North Bank]

how are they getting away with consistent blocking and knocking the goalies

We block the path not the player, if they run into our players its not a foul, its like a screen in basketball, whoever plants their feet first gets the call.

During lockdown, the Arsenal manager struck up a relationship with LA Rams coach Sean McVay. Last autumn, he joined England's camp under Jones, who exposes his players to insight from football, hockey, cycling. And now America.

'When I looked at the group and who was involved I was extremely surprised (to be invited),' Arteta said. 'These are people with so much experience, knowledge and different backgrounds. But it's fascinating… really challenging, and inspiring.' Enlightening, too. Even if it isn't immediately obvious what Arsenal can possibly learn from rugby or basketball.“

[Redley]

Bit of over-rating going on here methinks. Arteta hasn't either shown that he can cope with going far in a cup competition and continue doing well in the league, nor has he shown that he has any sort of grasp of European football. Knocked out last season by Sporting (when they were a better side than they are now), knocked out by Olympiacos in his first season, couldnt get past Villareal the season after.

People talking about 'only' being weaker than Abu Dhabi or Real. Inter got to the final last season, have a better coach and are storming Serie A. Atletico have proper pedigree, a better coach and are always a pain in the arse. Bayern still have properly big game players and a coach who is a twat but also has big European pedigree. PSG have huge players and again a coach who has won it before. With Inter/Atletico playing each other, I'd say the three who will likely remain in the quarters all have a better chance along with Abu Dhabi and Real. Arsenal probably on the same sort of level as the likes of Napoli, Dortmund and Barca.

[The North Bank]

Bit of over-rating going on here methinks. Arteta hasn't either shown that he can cope with going far in a cup competition and continue doing well in the league, nor has he shown that he has any sort of grasp of European football. Knocked out last season by Sporting (when they were a better side than they are now), knocked out by Olympiacos in his first season, couldnt get past Villareal the season after.

People talking about 'only' being weaker than Abu Dhabi or Real. Inter got to the final last season, have a better coach and are storming Serie A. Atletico have proper pedigree, a better coach and are always a pain in the arse. Bayern still have properly big game players and a coach who is a twat but also has big European pedigree. PSG have huge players and again a coach who has won it before. With Inter/Atletico playing each other, I'd say the three who will likely remain in the quarters all have a better chance along with Abu Dhabi and Real. Arsenal probably on the same sort of level as the likes of Napoli, Dortmund and Barca.

Thats probably true. Experience in CL seems to be crucial as well, look how long it took the cheats to win it, both cheats. I think we ll come unstuck at some stage by showing naivety this season. Should get to the quarters though it would be failure if we dont.

[Yorkykopite]

'When I looked at the group and who was involved I was extremely surprised (to be invited),' Arteta said. 'These are people with so much experience, knowledge and different backgrounds. But it's fascinating… really challenging, and inspiring.' Enlightening, too. Even if it isn't immediately obvious what Arsenal can possibly learn from rugby or basketball.“

"Mikel was a beautiful presence", said Buffalo Bills coach Todd Drucklehaus, "He brought his intense knowledge about facial collision simulations to our table as well as his life-long love for the Glass Bead Game". "And you should see his knife skills" added Scooter Puck, coach to the Ice Hockey giants the Minnesota Twats. "We finished with a barbecue and Mikel threw a sack of road salt on the beef and started attacking it with his scimitar".     

[ScottishGoon]

They might do but quality wise you're much better.

Had a quick look at the teams still in it and it's actually one of the weakest I can remember for some time. Even Bayern aren't anywhere close to what they used to be.

The only two I'd be worried about would be Real Madrid and Man City. I can see why some say you're third favourites.

It's a 2 way thing. I agree when you look at the teams left in, City & Real look strongest, teams like Bayern & Barca perhaps aren't quite what they were, but at the same time, given our performance, or lack of in the tournament, it would seem immensely arrogant to say.

I'd rather just concentrate on getting past Porto first. Get to the quarter finals and anything can happen really. 

Bit of over-rating going on here methinks. Arteta hasn't either shown that he can cope with going far in a cup competition and continue doing well in the league, nor has he shown that he has any sort of grasp of European football. Knocked out last season by Sporting (when they were a better side than they are now), knocked out by Olympiacos in his first season, couldnt get past Villareal the season after.

People talking about 'only' being weaker than Abu Dhabi or Real. Inter got to the final last season, have a better coach and are storming Serie A. Atletico have proper pedigree, a better coach and are always a pain in the arse. Bayern still have properly big game players and a coach who is a twat but also has big European pedigree. PSG have huge players and again a coach who has won it before. With Inter/Atletico playing each other, I'd say the three who will likely remain in the quarters all have a better chance along with Abu Dhabi and Real. Arsenal probably on the same sort of level as the likes of Napoli, Dortmund and Barca.

Hard to argue with that. One thing i would say is in the Europa, even in the knockout stages we tended to rotate the teams a bit. Was it arrogance, or lack or priority, i'm not sure.

I doubt we'd do the same in the Champions League.

[The North Bank]

"Mikel was a beautiful presence", said Buffalo Bills coach Todd Drucklehaus, "He brought his intense knowledge about facial collision simulations to our table as well as his life-long love for the Glass Bead Game". "And you should see his knife skills" added Scooter Puck, coach to the Ice Hockey giants the Minnesota Twats. "We finished with a barbecue and Mikel threw a sack of road salt on the beef and started attacking it with his scimitar".   

Spoiler! I havent got to that part yet!

[BigBrainArteta]

I think we also score many set piece goals because we force a lot of corners and free kicks in the final third. Everton have the second most set piece goals, however im willing to bet their ratio might be higher.

 Its always in swinging too. Saka/Odegaard as the left footers from the right, and Rice/Martinelli/Trossard as right footers from the left. We dont rush either; Arteta sits down and the set piece coach Nicolas Jover takes the position as manager for the duration of the set piece, the time delay and the fact Jover steps out to the front while Arteta takes a seat adds to the theater. Is it gamesmanship and mindgames? I've likened it to the strategy of subbing your reserve keeper in during a penalty shootout, the mere effect of doing this might affect the opposition players in thinking this keeper must be good at penalties if he is being subbed in for the shootout. We dramatize set pieces and given our growing reputation as set piece specialists, I wonder if the defending team is being out under pressure by our set piece 'routine'.

[JRed]

I think we also score many set piece goals because we force a lot of corners and we have a team full of cheating divers who constantly fall over to win free kicks in the final third. Everton have the second most set piece goals, however im willing to bet their ratio might be higher.

 Its always in swinging too. Saka/Odegaard as the left footers from the right, and Rice/Martinelli/Trossard as right footers from the left. We dont rush either; Arteta sits down and the set piece coach Nicolas Jover takes the position as manager for the duration of the set piece, the time delay and the fact Jover steps out to the front while Arteta takes a seat adds to the theater. Is it gamesmanship and mindgames? I've likened it to the strategy of subbing your reserve keeper in during a penalty shootout, the mere effect of doing this might affect the opposition players in thinking this keeper must be good at penalties if he is being subbed in for the shootout. We dramatize set pieces and given our growing reputation as set piece specialists, I wonder if the defending team is being out under pressure by our set piece 'routine'.

Fixed it for you

[Hazell]

Fixed it for you

You missed out players who fake injuries.

[Redley]

I think we also score many set piece goals because we force a lot of corners and free kicks in the final third. Everton have the second most set piece goals, however im willing to bet their ratio might be higher.

 Its always in swinging too. Saka/Odegaard as the left footers from the right, and Rice/Martinelli/Trossard as right footers from the left. We dont rush either; Arteta sits down and the set piece coach Nicolas Jover takes the position as manager for the duration of the set piece, the time delay and the fact Jover steps out to the front while Arteta takes a seat adds to the theater. Is it gamesmanship and mindgames? I've likened it to the strategy of subbing your reserve keeper in during a penalty shootout, the mere effect of doing this might affect the opposition players in thinking this keeper must be good at penalties if he is being subbed in for the shootout. We dramatize set pieces and given our growing reputation as set piece specialists, I wonder if the defending team is being out under pressure by our set piece 'routine'.

Its mighty impressive, there's very obviously an aim to win as many corners/free kicks as you can to use your primary weapon. I remember when we used to play Stoke and they had Rory Delap, and there was just a feeling of impending doom when you gave away a thrown in pretty much anywhere in your own half. Its that same feeling now with you guys getting a corner. With your attacking players not being particularly prolific its very important, Arteta deserves a lot of credit for making you such a fearsome set-piece team.

[PaulF]

I know we are deriding Arteta for doing this, but if Klopp had hired a set piece expert and that improved our xg but .5 , we'd be applauding him for it.

That said I think I'd be applauding Klopp for shagging my wife.

[tubby]

I honestly don't see what the fuss is about with the set pieces, we used them brilliantly a few seasons ago to break the deadlock in matches.  Arsenal are doing similar now, you could even argue they've copied the success we had with them.

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/37574709/why-being-good-set-pieces-win-trophies

You might have missed it as the camera angle was panned down to a close-up on the corner flag in the 79th minute. With Liverpool 3-0 ahead against Barcelona in their Champions League semifinal second leg but tied 3-3 on aggregate, the announcers were taking a breath ahead of what seemed like a run-of-the-mill corner kick and even Anfield itself seemed quiet.

An extra ball rolled over to a scampering ball boy; Xherdan Shaqiri shuffled toward the corner flag and Trent Alexander-Arnold measured his steps away from the ball. Then, while the Barcelona players were still setting up their marking assignments, Alexander-Arnold suddenly cut his set-up short, scampered back to the ball and bent in a low cross along the ground to Divock Origi, who was standing unmarked in the 6-yard box.

All commentator Martin Tyler could spit out was "QUICKLY TAKEN" before Origi's shot looped in at the first post. That made the score Liverpool 4-0 Barcelona -- the comeback after a 3-0 first-leg defeat was complete, and a couple of weeks later Jurgen Klopp's team would lift the European Cup in Madrid.

Given what Liverpool would go on to do, Origi's second goal against Barcelona was probably the most important goal of the season. And it was also the most fitting.

Back in September, Liverpool hired a throw-in coach. Yes, a throw-in coach. It was an easy target for bad jokes but nearly 12 months on, it looks like a clear indication of the club's new dedication to dead balls. According to postgame reports, everyone at the club -- all the way down to the ball boys -- were briefed on the potential for a quick corner kick against Barcelona. It wasn't a pre-scripted play, but Liverpool were able to capitalise in that specific moment because everyone involved knew there was a chance something similar would arise.

Thanks to that newfound focus, Liverpool led all teams in Europe's "Big Five" leagues with 22 goals from set pieces last season in domestic play; no one else had more than 17. Take a couple of those away and there's no title race in England and perhaps no sixth European title, either. But Klopp & Co. aren't the only dead-ball dynamos to experience success last season.

Their opponents in the Champions League final, Tottenham, were joint-fifth (16), as were their semifinal opponents, Barcelona, and the Serie A champions, Juventus. Germany's title winners, Bayern Munich, were just one back with 15 (in four fewer games), while France's finest, Paris Saint-Germain, snuck into the top 25 with 13. And guess who led the Champions League in set piece goals? The surprise semifinalists Ajax, with eight.

Despite the attacking talent and beautiful, complex interplay these teams are all capable of from open play, they each needed dead-balls to score as many goals as they did. Set pieces, then, are as important as they ever have been.

Back in 2014-15, FC Midtjylland, a small club located on the Jutland peninsula, won its first-ever Danish league title. The club is owned by Matthew Benham, a former hedge fund manager and sports bettor who also owns Brentford in the English Championship. Under Benham's ownership, Midtjylland have become the closest thing in European soccer to a professional baseball team: unafraid of unconventional behaviour, looking for inefficiencies wherever they can find them. During that championship campaign, they scored 25 set piece goals while no one else in the 12-team league broke 11 and just three others reached double-digits.

One of the reasons why some coaches, players and analysts bristle at the idea of spending more practice time on set pieces is that practice time is finite. The more time you spend on set pieces, the less time you're spending on possession; wouldn't the improvement in dead-balls just be cancelled out in the decline in production from open play?

Eventually, everyone else in Denmark started to copy Midtjylland. In the 2017-18 season, they led the league with 25 set piece goals again and they won the league again, too. Except, this time, two other teams broke 20 set piece goals, and eight others broke into double-digits.

"It was almost an unintentional economics experiment," Ted Knutson, who used to work for Midtjylland, told ESPN.

The league had expanded to 14 teams, but the number of set piece goals per game had increased from 0.55 in 2014-15 to 0.75 in 2017-18. On top of that, the number of goals also increased, from 2.41 per game to 2.91. Everyone got better at set pieces and everyone scored more goals.

"It pointed to a huge under-exploited tactical wrinkle in the game that could help teams score enough goals to win a title," Knutson said. "And it's repeatable across the entire sport. That's a pretty big deal."

Knutson now runs Statsbomb, an analytics consultancy with clients across the world. They also teach a course on set piece design.

"Right now, the average team scores between 0.30 to 0.35 goals a game from set pieces," he said. "The best teams can bump this up to 0.75 to 0.80. That type of leap in production takes an average Premier League forward and moves them into the realm of Neymar, except without the transfer fee or the massive cost in wages."

Liverpool averaged 0.58 set piece goals per game last season, so Knutson believes that not even the best team is executing on set pieces as best as it can. But his comparison still works: Only seven Premier League players (Sergio Aguero, Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang, Sadio Mane, Harry Kane, Gabriel Jesus, Mohamed Salah and Jamie Vardy) averaged more than 0.58 goals per 90 minutes last season.

Given everything that could go wrong, every open-play goal is a minor miracle. In order to develop an efficient and productive open-play attack, there has to be an innate understanding between players who must move in sync with each other and then execute a succession of high-level skills at a fast pace. They're never replicating an exact pattern of movement or passing -- every goal is as unique as a snowflake -- but rather constantly interpreting a set of pre-practiced principles. That takes a lot of time to develop. But with set pieces, teams can literally import the exact routines they practice directly onto the field.

The 2018 World Cup was further proof that dead-ball training can provide immediate dividends. National teams simply don't spend enough time together to develop the necessary open-play cohesion. (It's not a coincidence that perhaps the two best international sides of the past 10 years, Spain and Germany, included an outsize number of players from Barcelona and Bayern Munich.) But they can develop their set piece proficiency.

In Russia last summer, there were 70 set piece goals, eight more than the previous record set in 1998. Gareth Southgate studied the plays of both NBA and NFL teams before the tournament, and then England scored nine set piece goals, breaking the record Portugal set back in 1966.

However, despite both England and Liverpool's success with set plays, the best team in the U.K. is still lagging behind. Manchester City's 12 set piece goals were tied for eighth most in the Premier League last season. Pep Guardiola's side had the best goal differential of any team in Europe in 2018-19. Could there still be room for improvement?

"Pep is a genius, but Man City can definitely get better at executing in that one phase of the game," Knutson said. "I'm not sure it will be good for the Premier League as a whole if they do though."

[Redley]

I know we are deriding Arteta for doing this, but if Klopp had hired a set piece expert and that improved our xg but .5 , we'd be applauding him for it.

That said I think I'd be applauding Klopp for shagging my wife.

No-one should be deriding him. 30% of their goals come from set-pieces, thats impressive. We're on like 13% and Abu Dhabi on 17% for comparison, having scored more. Only Everton are significantly more potent from set-pieces, 50% of their goals. And you've got Luton on exactly the same as Arsenal, 30% of their goals from set-pieces.

And last season they were only on 17% so there's clearly been a big focus on them. They dont score as many as last season, but do score a lot more from set-pieces so you can that they've made a movement in terms of the sort of football they're looking to play (also signing tall players like Rice and Havertz to help).