Topic: Arsenal: Top of the divers league

[jillcwhomever]

Yes, good as usual from SG. Bayern looked more potent than I expected.

I have one quibble though. It's extremely rare for a player to pick up the ball after the whistle has blown for a corner or a free kick and a teammate has already responded by playing the ball. In fact I'm not sure I've seen that happen. Arsenal got away with one there.

This is one of the reasons I really dislike Bayern. All season they've flattered themselves yet now they decide to show up, if I was a Bayern fan, I'd be asking where has this team been the rest of the time? Probably why I have little sympathy for them.

[Kalito]

Deciding a cl tie on that wouldn’t be for me. Wouldn’t want a pen if Bayern did that. If we cant beat them then so be it.

Obviously they need to be careful (I think if the ball doesnt leave the 6 yard box its not in play) the ref could’ve given it , but he did the right thing there.

The ball was out of the 6 yard box by the time Gabriel handled. 

[FlashGordon]

Yeah, awful dive by Saka there. Similar to the Harvey Elliot dive the other day. Wan Bissaka's "tackle" didn't touch Elliot either and then Elliot looked for contact. https://twitter.com/UtdFaithfuls/status/1777226859727515770

Need to coach Saka better when it comes to diving.

You sir are a fucking imbecile and should be kicked off the boards. His left knee/shin clips Elliott's right foot and then where is he supposed to plant his leg after that?

[The G in Gerrard]

Crowd seemed more nervous than the players.

[clinical]

Yeah, awful dive by Saka there. Similar to the Harvey Elliot dive the other day. Wan Bissaka's "tackle" didn't touch Elliot either and then Elliot looked for contact. https://twitter.com/UtdFaithfuls/status/1777226859727515770

Need to coach Saka better when it comes to diving.

Utter nonsense.

[Dougle]

Only skimmed over the last page or 2, but here’s my take on last night.

Thought we played the occasion and not the game. We went 1-0 and instead of playing clever football, it was as if we wanted to go out and kill the tie n leg 1, and got hit with a couple of really good counters. Struggled to get back to impose our game afterwards, and Bayern looked quite dangerous throughout. We aren’t great when we are drawn into games like that, it’s what Utd try and drag you into. That turns it more into a game of individuals, and then guys like Sane and Kane attacking wise are better than our equivalent.

I didn’t think the Saka incident was a penalty. Not sure it’s a dive as blatant as folk are making out, there is a view where Neuer makes a step towards him and you might think maybe, but there’s another view that seems to show Saka dangling his leg or even moving it towards contact.

I thought a lot of the diving etc was exaggerated a few months ago, I didn’t think we were any worse or any better than anyone else. We’ve a couple of players that seem serial ‘downers’ and moan (like Jesus) But I’ve not likes what I’ve seen the past few weeks from Ben White and Havertz, and maybe even Saka there. I get that gamesmanship is a part of the game but to me, we’re going too far, and especially Havertz seems like a repeat offender. I remember him doing similar at Chelsea, I’d prefer he didn’t do it at Arsenal.

As for the Bayern complaints, I’m not having that. There’s been plenty incidents where the ref has blown for a free kick or corner to be taken for instance, someone touches it and a player will grab the ball and re-position it. Be it a misunderstanding or whatever, but I don’t think I ever remember seeing an incident like that punished.

Anyway, still in the game at least, going to Munich wipnt be easy but if we play our game and not the occasion it might suit us more being the away team. Got to say Bayern are favourites now though.

I do think Arsenal were lucky with the idiot's penalty that the ref let go. Otherwise fair summation (from what I saw). Both Bayern goals had elements of uncharacteristic Arsenal defending in them. Maybe it was luck for Bayern or maybe this is just the way things go at times. The best of players can make an error, we've certainly done it, gave you the game at Arsenal and threw away 2 points last weekend on wildly unusual errors.
So maybe this incredible run of organised, coherent defending, never conceding first and not making errors is coming to an end ?
Welcome back to our world !!

[kaesarsosei]

Don't get me wrong, I want Arsenal to go through and face City in a 2-legged semi which would massively help us, but I really think its unlikely now. I make it at least 60/40 on Bayern progressing. The other tie is much the same, about 60/40 in favour of City.

At least Arsenal will have to focus on the second leg in any case and even better if they can take it to 120 mins, just a pity Villa are also distracted for this Sunday. Arsenal away to Wolves 3 days after away to Munich is a potential banana-skin though.

[RJH]

This is one of the reasons I really dislike Bayern. All season they've flattered themselves yet now they decide to show up, if I was a Bayern fan, I'd be asking where has this team been the rest of the time? Probably why I have little sympathy for them.

For most of the season Bayern have not been that bad, it was just they were in the shadow of Leverkusen's incredible season.
They went undefeated in the CL group stage and were going along at 2.5 ppg in the league until they lost to Leverkusen in Feb, which is when the wobbles really started.

[tonysleft]

I think the ref was absolutely right not to give a pen for that handball. That's a moment of confusion not any attempt to gain an advantage by cheating. Rare case of common sense refereeing.

[Kopenhagen]

Yeah, awful dive by Saka there. Similar to the Harvey Elliot dive the other day. Wan Bissaka's "tackle" didn't touch Elliot either and then Elliot looked for contact. https://twitter.com/UtdFaithfuls/status/1777226859727515770

Need to coach Saka better when it comes to diving.

[ScottishGoon]

City aside, those clubs earned the money and spending power with success. And they sell players to balance it at least somewhat. Yous on the other hand have been shite for years until last season, don't sell anyone for significant money, and still you've out-spent all those teams you mentioned over the past few years. And that's just in comparison to the really mega clubs - you're (net) out-spending a "normally aspirated" club like Liverpool by a factor of four since 2019.

But still, every time there's a result that doesn't go your way, or even the slightest bit of adversity, you're straight on here talking about what the next huge signing should be.

It's the same shit every time with you. Win a game and it's "everything is amazing... Arteta is a genius". Don't win a game and it's "need to spend another £100m...blah blah whataboutery".

So tiresome.

I need to pick up on this point, I’ve spoken about it before with regards our finances, but remember football finances are more than just Transfers in and Transfers out. We’ve cut our cloth on other areas, we actually reduced our wage bill at one point, made redundancies (who can forget Gunnersaurus) post Covid and when we didn’t qualify for Europe, as that meant a much reduced revenue.

Our owners only really became engaged in the last few years, realised they had dropped the ball and that they needed to do something about it. They allowed us to restructure the stadium debt to free up some money, they’ve allowed us to sustain manageable losses to help us to invest enough to improve the team, which in turn will improve overall revenues. But they aren’t handing us hundreds of millions every year for transfers, nearly all of it is club earned or will be club paid.

[Redley]

They play like Atletico Madrid. It's sad really.

I'm not sure thats true. For Atletico that approach has got them some incredible achievements. They've been a real force in Europe in particular, I don't honestly know how they play domestically but I get the impression a lot of Spanish teams are pretty...divey.

But Arsenal was so much more last night, it was ingrained. It was so odd to watch, almost like Pavlovs dog. Like they'd been conditioned to dive, regardless of the situation, to their own detriment. Saka is obviously the one that will remain in peoples minds, diving when he could have scored a winner. But they were all at it, in promising situations. Havertz has done it in very promising positions recently. Rice dived last night on the edge of his own area. It was fascinating. You wonder if they walk around supermarkets chucking themselves into the cornflakes if a trolley goes near them.

[Redley]

City aside, those clubs earned the money and spending power with success. And they sell players to balance it at least somewhat. Yous on the other hand have been shite for years until last season, don't sell anyone for significant money, and still you've out-spent all those teams you mentioned over the past few years. And that's just in comparison to the really mega clubs - you're (net) out-spending a "normally aspirated" club like Liverpool by a factor of four since 2019.

But still, every time there's a result that doesn't go your way, or even the slightest bit of adversity, you're straight on here talking about what the next huge signing should be.

It's the same shit every time with you. Win a game and it's "everything is amazing... Arteta is a genius". Don't win a game and it's "need to spend another £100m...blah blah whataboutery".

So tiresome.

This is spot on.

Over £800 million in the last five seasons. Its a truly eye-watering amount of money spent on players, not to mention the eye-watering wages given to players who will be asking for further pay rises. Ramsdales apparently on like £140k a week. Given the likes of Saka, Saliba, Martinelli etc etc vast pay rises when they've not achieved anything. Its a recipe for disaster, one season out of the CL would be an absolute catastrophe.

[Mahern]

Not heard from the referee to be fair. Tuchel is a bit of a nutcase so I wouldn’t totally believe everything he says.

Don't really need to hear from the referee or Tuchel there, it's pretty clear cut, if a bit ridiculous that it happened at all. Akin to a goalie carrying the ball over the goal line I would say - harsh, but those are the rules.

[cptrios]

Don't get me wrong, I want Arsenal to go through and face City in a 2-legged semi which would massively help us, but I really think its unlikely now. I make it at least 60/40 on Bayern progressing. The other tie is much the same, about 60/40 in favour of City.

At least Arsenal will have to focus on the second leg in any case and even better if they can take it to 120 mins, just a pity Villa are also distracted for this Sunday. Arsenal away to Wolves 3 days after away to Munich is a potential banana-skin though.

Given the respective VAR/reffing treatment of both teams of late, I expect Ben White to grab the Wolves keeper's foot and use it to repeatedly kick his own groin, after which he'll be awarded a penalty for each impact.

[newterp]

Yeah, awful dive by Saka there. Similar to the Harvey Elliot dive the other day. Wan Bissaka's "tackle" didn't touch Elliot either and then Elliot looked for contact. https://twitter.com/UtdFaithfuls/status/1777226859727515770

Need to coach Saka better when it comes to diving.

Are you drunk?

He clips Elliots leg AND wipes out his back leg.

[newterp]

I think the ref was absolutely right not to give a pen for that handball. That's a moment of confusion not any attempt to gain an advantage by cheating. Rare case of common sense refereeing.

What was the moment of confusion? Raya played the "clever" no look pass to start the play like he has 500 times this season. Gabriel had a brain fart and picked it up.

Bayern players saw it right away.

No confusion at all.

[Red Ol]

I think the ref was absolutely right not to give a pen for that handball. That's a moment of confusion not any attempt to gain an advantage by cheating. Rare case of common sense refereeing.

You could be right but it’s the rarity of refs applying common sense (especially as far as lfc is concerned) that make such calls inconsistent and therefore feels like they got away with one nevertheless.

[Crosby Nick]

How come the ref whistled? Wouldn’t normally whistle to restart the game with a goal
Kick would they (maybe I’ve just not been paying attention for the last 40 years!).

[smicer07]

How come the ref whistled? Wouldn’t normally whistle to restart the game with a goal
Kick would they (maybe I’ve just not been paying attention for the last 40 years!).

You don't have to whistle, but you can.

[Dim Glas]

Are you drunk?

He clips Elliots leg AND wipes out his back leg.

he knows. He was posting all that nonsense trying to bait people here last night for some reason.

[The North Bank]

I think the ref was really good and doesnt deserve this to count against him, Id hate him to stop using common sense because of this wild backlash, then people will complain that the ref “never played the game” and doesnt use common sense.

Hes been accused of corruption and worse, getting out of order to be honest, he was excellent, made me forget Var existed.

[JRed]

I think the ref was really good and doesnt deserve this to count against him, Id hate him to stop using common sense because of this wild backlash, then people will complain that the ref “never played the game” and doesnt use common sense.

Hes been accused of corruption and worse, getting out of order to be honest, he was excellent, made me forget Var existed.

Maybe Gabriel will pick the ball up as it’s rolling into Arsenal’s goal next as he might think the attacker is just kicking the ball to him to take a goal kick or something.

[Redley]

It wasn't corruption, he just chose not to apply the very clear rules for some reason. It doesn't diminish from a very good performance where he didn't buy all of the diving from Arsenal, but its still not a good look that he knew it should have been a penalty but just decided it shouldn't be....because it'd be a silly one. By not giving it he's made it just as big an issue as if he had.

I suspect it won't make a vast difference as I'm sure it'll fire Bayern up for the second leg

[Bullet500]

I think the ref was really good and doesnt deserve this to count against him, Id hate him to stop using common sense because of this wild backlash, then people will complain that the ref “never played the game” and doesnt use common sense.

Hes been accused of corruption and worse, getting out of order to be honest, he was excellent, made me forget Var existed.

ohh, the ref was excellent yesterday.

Want rules and protocols to be followed? That's what VAR did after they said "check complete" and fucked up Luis Diaz' goal against Tottenham. Just use common sense at times.

[JRed]

ohh, the ref was excellent yesterday.

Want rules and protocols to be followed? That's what VAR did after they said "check complete" and fucked up Luis Diaz' goal against Tottenham. Just use common sense at times.

But they didn’t follow protocols did they?
I really am amazed that you are still allowed to post on here.

[Bullet500]

I need to pick up on this point, I’ve spoken about it before with regards our finances, but remember football finances are more than just Transfers in and Transfers out. We’ve cut our cloth on other areas, we actually reduced our wage bill at one point, made redundancies (who can forget Gunnersaurus) post Covid and when we didn’t qualify for Europe, as that meant a much reduced revenue.

Our owners only really became engaged in the last few years, realised they had dropped the ball and that they needed to do something about it. They allowed us to restructure the stadium debt to free up some money, they’ve allowed us to sustain manageable losses to help us to invest enough to improve the team, which in turn will improve overall revenues. But they aren’t handing us hundreds of millions every year for transfers, nearly all of it is club earned or will be club paid.

Just need to directly sell a couple of players to sportswashers like in the days of Wenger or indirectly benefit from a sportswashing triangle trade. That definitely sorts out net spend.

[ScottishGoon]

Was the incident with Gabriel even mentioned in commentary last night? I might have missed it but I didn’t even know it had happened and never even heard it discussed until Tuchel mentioned it after the game.

[Bullet500]

But they didn’t follow protocols did they?
I really am amazed that you are still allowed to post on here.

Before the wrong decision they did not. But after that they suddenly decided not to use common sense and follow protocol. There was this argument between a former ref and Merson on this too.

[Bullet500]

Was the incident with Gabriel even mentioned in commentary last night? I might have missed it but I didn’t even know it had happened and never even heard it discussed until Tuchel mentioned it after the game.

Nothing on commentary.

[Redley]

It wasn't mentioned by Fletch and Macca, therefore it doesn't count

[The North Bank]

Maybe Gabriel will pick the ball up as it’s rolling into Arsenal’s goal next as he might think the attacker is just kicking the ball to him to take a goal kick or something.

This referee, it was the first time he officiates a match in CL knock outs and he did a great job. I didnt like what Tuchel said, I understand hes upset, but he came across very personal, and the ref has no platform to defend himself or what he said to the Bayern players, if anything.
Tuchel came across as saying hes more upset with the explanation than the decision, we dont know what language the ref used (no idea where hes from) and maybe someone misinterpreted it and now hes the ref that decides “kid’s mistake” when he really should be applauded for applying common sense and understanding that Gabriel was not trying to get any advantage.

[JRed]

This referee, it was the first time he officiates a match in CL knock outs and he did a great job. I didnt like what Tuchel said, I understand hes upset, but he came across very personal, and the ref has no platform to defend himself or what he said to the Bayern players, if anything.
Tuchel came across as saying hes more upset with the explanation than the decision, we dont know what language the ref used (no idea where hes from) and maybe someone misinterpreted it and now hes the ref that decides “kid’s mistake” when he really should be applauded for applying common sense and understanding that Gabriel was not trying to get any advantage.

Just like Odourgard wasn’t ‘trying’ to gain an advantage when he played basketball in the box at Anfield.
It doesn’t matter what he was trying to do or not. It was a penalty.

[Redley]

Its not possible to defend himself...he fucked up, period. Its was a huge mistake. And a massive advantage for Arsenal, as when Harry Kane gets a penalty he inevitably scores it. But the ref had a good game, it hopefully isn't a black mark on him as he'd be a good ref for us to get in the future. His handling of Arsenals diving as North Bank says was exemplary. 

[ScottishGoon]

It wasn't mentioned by Fletch and Macca, therefore it doesn't count

Also wasn’t mentioned on the match thread on here, and we know RAWK is the oracle!

So until Tuchel brought it up, no-one really knew anything about it?

[JRed]

Also wasn’t mentioned on the match thread on here, and we know RAWK is the oracle!

So until Tuchel brought it up, no-one really knew anything about it?

Does that make it not a penalty?

[Redley]

Also wasn’t mentioned on the match thread on here, and we know RAWK is the oracle!

So until Tuchel brought it up, no-one really knew anything about it?

So if one player is abused verbally by another, in whatever way, during a game and its dealt with afterwards, it should just be swept under the rug because no-one watching noticed during the game?

It was a penalty, very clearly. You've had a monumental slice of luck (again!). The referee obviously didn't have the confidence to give it. As soon as the Bayern players saw it, it should have been given. He's bottled it. Unfortunately, because as we're saying he dealt with a tricky game very well.

[Dim Glas]

Also wasn’t mentioned on the match thread on here, and we know RAWK is the oracle!

So until Tuchel brought it up, no-one really knew anything about it?

what difference does that make? What a mad take.

They showed the players clearly upset at something, that the commentators didn’t know what doesn’t mean it wasn’t a penalty.

[JRed]

what difference does that make? What a mad take.

They showed the players clearly upset at something, that the commentators didn’t know what doesn’t mean it wasn’t a penalty.

The whole idea of it was to level the playing field.

[Dim Glas]

earlier in the season Gravenberch, as many players have in the past, was penalised for hand-ball when he grabbed the ball that was clearly sailing out of play for a throw a split second before it crossed the line. And a freekick given against. So apparently I'm now to believe that wasn’t a free-kick for hand-ball due to it falling under ‘spirit of the game’ or some-such rule