Topic: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - 2023 (FSG posts = get muted) - No Mbappé

[classycarra]

We’d lost Matip at the end of January, not in December, it doesn’t make it any more ‘right’ but your facts are clearly a little hazy.

that's when his season ender was diagnosed, but Matip did get injured in December 2020. A muscle injury, having already started the season with a muscle injury and being leaned on for increased minutes in spite of this (something Klopp was evidently conscious of, as he made public the next season that the club had taken risks leaning on him too much from the start of that season).

So again, it's valid to say the writing was on the wall in when Matip got his groin injury at the end of December and useful context to why Klopp was clearly and even visibly desperate for support that January (as were Robertson and Van Dijk) that wasn't forthcoming from the money men.

[DarkOfTheManatee]

Does anyone genuinely think that Jurgen Klopp would, without servere restrictions, sign a Kabak, a Ben Davies, an Artbur Melo, or an Endo?

Agree with some of your points, particularly about that January transfer window, but Klopp is quoted as saying "[Endo] was always on my list, just usually we don't sign players of this age group. He is obviously a top fit."

Now Klopp isn't the kind of manager to undermine new signings like a Conte or a Mourinho, so maybe he was putting a brave face on his disappointment, but that doesn't sound like someone who had a player foisted on him due to restrictions. There were many other ways he could've paid lip service to a player only signed because of lack of options.

Yes, Endo may not be world class, and a world class defensive midfielder would obviously make us harder to play through. But defending is still a team game, and I know fans of Chelsea (who signed the DM we initially wanted) and Everton (with Gueye) who bemoan how easy they are to play through just as much as we do.

Finally, who would you have signed as DM instead of Endo last summer after we'd missed out on Caicedo and Lavia. That's a genuine question, not me having a go in any way - I just remember that quality DMs were scarce enough that we were contemplating Palhinha on here. I liked the sound of Lavia, but I doubt a 19 year old would have done much better than Endo in his first season.

[classycarra]

Finally, who would you have signed as DM instead of Endo last summer after we'd missed out on Caicedo and Lavia. That's a genuine question, not me having a go in any way - I just remember that quality DMs were scarce enough that we were contemplating Palhinha on here. I liked the sound of Lavia, but I doubt a 19 year old would have done much better than Endo in his first season.

Palhinha's definitely a better defensive midfielder than Endo to be fair. Although as I said last summer, I wouldn't want to sign him, not least because he was on a long contract and way overpriced, having had a good first season and having a desperate Bayern driving  his price up. But also because he's not great on the ball and sub-par at passing - and we need our deepest midfielder to be able to quickly distribute the ball. However, he is very much superior to Endo when it comes to competing physically and that shows up with his comparatively dominant defensive stats

[Garlic Red]

that's when his season ender was diagnosed, but Matip did get injured in December 2020. A muscle injury, having already started the season with a muscle injury and being leaned on for increased minutes in spite of this (something Klopp was evidently conscious of, as he made public the next season that the club had taken risks leaning on him too much from the start of that season).

So again, it's valid to say the writing was on the wall in when Matip got his groin injury at the end of December and useful context to why Klopp was clearly and even visibly desperate for support that January (as were Robertson and Van Dijk) that wasn't forthcoming from the money men.

I did say it doesn’t make it anymore right, it was a balls up and I’d have signed a centre half the day Lovren was sold, but I can see both arguments and I don’t necessarily think it’s just a case of ‘ownership said no’. We went into that season with three senior centre halves and Fabinho as 4th, it was risky but given Van Dijk hadn’t had an injury, it wasn’t unthinkable to think we could manage, but it was risky. We had enough depth in midfield to allow Fabinho to play the odd game in defence, Lovren played in 15 in all comps the season before, it wasn’t the worst ask to ask Fabinho to cover those games given we’d added Thiago and had a deep midfield.

The problem was obviously the situation with Konate. We were never going to sign two players permanently in January, not if we had one lined up for the summer and three players in their peak already at the club, two at the time with long term injuries. Asking Fabinho to fill in there wasn’t the biggest ask ever, Fernandinho racked up more than his fair share of appearances at centre half and that’s playing for a club with unlimited oil money - sometimes you have to find solutions from within and that applies to all clubs, top of the league or not.

If you think we didn’t sign someone because the owners were being tight, fair enough, you’re entitled to your opinion. My own view is we couldn’t find someone of sufficient quality/value, we’d decided that player was Konate and Leipzig wouldn’t sell to us due to the pending last 16 tie.

And to tie it all the way in to the original point. I don’t think it’s the ownership’s fault that the club signed Endo in the summer and I’m not sure why it’s a stick you’d beat them with. The manager quite clearly wanted Endo after failing to land Lavia and Caicedo.

[classycarra]

I did say it doesn’t make it anymore right, it was a balls up and I’d have signed a centre half the day Lovren was sold, but I can see both arguments and I don’t necessarily think it’s just a case of ‘ownership said no’. We went into that season with three senior centre halves and Fabinho as 4th, it was risky but given Van Dijk hadn’t had an injury, it wasn’t unthinkable to think we could manage, but it was risky. We had enough depth in midfield to allow Fabinho to play the odd game in defence, Lovren played in 15 in all comps the season before, it wasn’t the worst ask to ask Fabinho to cover those games given we’d added Thiago and had a deep midfield.

The problem was obviously the situation with Konate. We were never going to sign two players permanently in January, not if we had one lined up for the summer and three players in their peak already at the club, two at the time with long term injuries. Asking Fabinho to fill in there wasn’t the biggest ask ever, Fernandinho racked up more than his fair share of appearances at centre half and that’s playing for a club with unlimited oil money - sometimes you have to find solutions from within and that applies to all clubs, top of the league or not.

If you think we didn’t sign someone because the owners were being tight, fair enough, you’re entitled to your opinion. My own view is we couldn’t find someone of sufficient quality/value, we’d decided that player was Konate and Leipzig wouldn’t sell to us due to the pending last 16 tie.

And to tie it all the way in to the original point. I don’t think it’s the ownership’s fault that the club signed Endo in the summer and I’m not sure why it’s a stick you’d beat them with. The manager quite clearly wanted Endo after failing to land Lavia and Caicedo.

Personally I was fine with taking the calculated risk of going into the season without a Lovren replacement, but I wasn't happy with the intransigence (until results nosedived and it got to the end of January) to try to find a way to help Klopp and the squad.

I said at the time, and since, that we had finite years with Klopp. That we never know in sport how long the good times can last. So to throw in the towel on a title run - purely because of a lack of ambition to win (merely to make good money, ie top 4) from the non-sporting side of the club - would be a real shame.

I'm sure you and I probably discussed this on here years ago, so am happy to leave it there (and the Endo point is presumably for someone else).

[RedSetGo]

Moby @Mobyhaque1: "AS 🇪🇸 linking strong LFC interest in Las Palmas Attacking MF Alberto Moleiro (20). He is often compared to Pedri, another Las Palmas MF with similar traits. Also reports LFC tried to sign him 2 years ago too"

This boy looks exciting. Left-winger, #10

Looks small. Would have to hit the gym to thrive in PL. But he's 20, so he has time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oF56NQ6Kwxw

https://www.transfermarkt.us/alberto-moleiro/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/733576/wettbewerb/ES1/saison/2023

[rafathegaffa83]

Not much difference in height to the likes of TAA, Salah, Mac Allister, Elliott. I'd imagine if we were interested it wouldn't be as someone who could contribute immediately. Might end up spending time bulking up as there's been quite a few wingers from La Liga that end up getting bullied out of the PL (Gil at Spurs being a recent example). The lack of end product is off-putting.

[spider-neil]

The thread has turned to Endo in a Nunez thread. My opinion on Endo is when space is compressed and the gaps are small and in front of him he is excellent but when spaces open up (a big pitch like Manu away) or he gets turned around he has zero recovery pace. Also, Jones got injured and returned a shell of a player which hasn't helped our defensive shape. Jota and Jones getting injured vs Brentford put paid to our title challenge.

[Garlic Red]

The thread has turned to Endo in a Nunez thread. My opinion on Endo is when space is compressed and the gaps are small and in front of him he is excellent but when spaces open up (a big pitch like Manu away) or he gets turned around he has zero recovery pace. Also, Jones got injured and returned a shell of a player which hasn't helped our defensive shape. Jota and Jones getting injured vs Brentford put paid to our title challenge.

Yeah it had apologies for nibbling on a post before. Just irks me that stuff turns into a blame-fest for whoever people decide they want to blame for something when I’m of the opinion it’s not one person’s fault, it’s a collaborative approach and there’s no need to be a fall person for a decision backfiring or not going to plan.

As for Moleiro above, reminds you of a certain little Brazilian we sold to Barca for a fortune. After spending most of last summer seeing the Spanish press linking us to Gabri Veiga only for him to end up in Saudi, I won’t get my hopes up. It’s rare that the big Spanish clubs let a genuine star slip through their nets but this summer - with Real stacked and Barca needing to sell - they just might. Will be interesting to see what happens to Carvalho in the summer if we’re in the market for that type of player. I thought Slot might have given him a chance but I feel like he’s another Solanke, he needs 150-200 games elsewhere before being ready to play for a top club.

[mikey_LFC]

I did say it doesn’t make it anymore right, it was a balls up and I’d have signed a centre half the day Lovren was sold, but I can see both arguments and I don’t necessarily think it’s just a case of ‘ownership said no’. We went into that season with three senior centre halves and Fabinho as 4th, it was risky but given Van Dijk hadn’t had an injury, it wasn’t unthinkable to think we could manage, but it was risky. We had enough depth in midfield to allow Fabinho to play the odd game in defence, Lovren played in 15 in all comps the season before, it wasn’t the worst ask to ask Fabinho to cover those games given we’d added Thiago and had a deep midfield.

The problem was obviously the situation with Konate. We were never going to sign two players permanently in January, not if we had one lined up for the summer and three players in their peak already at the club, two at the time with long term injuries. Asking Fabinho to fill in there wasn’t the biggest ask ever, Fernandinho racked up more than his fair share of appearances at centre half and that’s playing for a club with unlimited oil money - sometimes you have to find solutions from within and that applies to all clubs, top of the league or not.

If you think we didn’t sign someone because the owners were being tight, fair enough, you’re entitled to your opinion. My own view is we couldn’t find someone of sufficient quality/value, we’d decided that player was Konate and Leipzig wouldn’t sell to us due to the pending last 16 tie.

And to tie it all the way in to the original point. I don’t think it’s the ownership’s fault that the club signed Endo in the summer and I’m not sure why it’s a stick you’d beat them with. The manager quite clearly wanted Endo after failing to land Lavia and Caicedo.

This is spot on. The fact is, no team with an injury crisis of that magnitude was ever going to win the league, no matter where they sat in the table in December. It’s also worth noting Kabak was a rumoured target in the summer before we got him on loan, so it’s hardly like he was pulled from nowhere, it is just likely we didn’t consider him quite worth the investment, but had to take a gamble on him come January. The real learning from that situation came in the last few games when we stuck to having centre backs at centre back and our form improved. People like to focus on that season but in reality we didn’t lose anything from our transfer business as top 4 was the only realistic outcome when the injury situation was considered no matter what we did in the window, as no club that operates properly could rectify that situation.

Those using Endo as a negative against any part of the club needs to reevaluate the situation, really. He has shown himself to be a resourceful, smart signing who has helped us go beyond our expectations for the start of the season for large periods. Our drop off is not on him, it’s on an unmanageable injury crisis that exhausted those members of the squad who were still fit. Trying to act like there is a massive issue with this side will only cause problems. Had we not been as unlucky with injuries and decisions as we have been this season, we’d have likely won the league. That level of misfortune is never going to be sustainable.

[Draex]

The thread has turned to Endo in a Nunez thread. My opinion on Endo is when space is compressed and the gaps are small and in front of him he is excellent but when spaces open up (a big pitch like Manu away) or he gets turned around he has zero recovery pace. Also, Jones got injured and returned a shell of a player which hasn't helped our defensive shape. Jota and Jones getting injured vs Brentford put paid to our title challenge.

As mickey said him and Macca both got overplayed and ran out of steam.

And again as Mickey says, it was our forwards not scoring as the primary reason we didn’t win more this season.

6 is an area we can improve, he’s not getting any younger.

[spider-neil]

As mickey said him and Macca both got overplayed and ran out of steam.

And again as Mickey says, it was our forwards not scoring as the primary reason we didn’t win more this season.

6 is an area we can improve, he’s not getting any younger.

Endo is old and Baj is young. If Slot thinks Baj is a special talent he will play him but I think the 6 is the obvious area to upgrade.

[Draex]

Endo is old and Baj is young. If Slot thinks Baj is a special talent he will play him but I think the 6 is the obvious area to upgrade.

I agree, and even more games next year, we are getting to the point you need two first 11s of similar quality to compete.

[mikey_LFC]

Endo is old and Baj is young. If Slot thinks Baj is a special talent he will play him but I think the 6 is the obvious area to upgrade.

Unless Trent is the solution. Slot has changed the position of his players in the past, so could be the person to move Trent, which if Geertruida or someone similar is targeted, makes sense as a potential option.

In many ways I see Trent and Baj as very similar players.

[Asam]

Unless Trent is the solution. Slot has changed the position of his players in the past, so could be the person to move Trent, which if Geertruida or someone similar is targeted, makes sense as a potential option.

In many ways I see Trent and Baj as very similar players.

Trent isn’t good enough defensively to play as a 6, we don’t need a deep lying playmaker we need someone who can keep the ball moving and is a defensive wall, we have creativity in abundance but lack recovery pace, aerial ability and ball winning aggression

[Asam]

Endo is old and Baj is young. If Slot thinks Baj is a special talent he will play him but I think the 6 is the obvious area to upgrade.

I think Baj looked better as a box to box player than as the deepest midfielder, McConnell looks more like a natural 6 than Baj but is very young

[RedG13]

I think Baj looked better as a box to box player than as the deepest midfielder, McConnell looks more like a natural 6 than Baj but is very young

Bajcetic has received 1 career progressive pass he was consistently a deep midfielder there no way he playing in the half spaces

[spider-neil]

I think Baj looked better as a box to box player than as the deepest midfielder, McConnell looks more like a natural 6 than Baj but is very young

Baj is definitely a defensive midfield. In fact, he started as a centre back and became a defensive midfielder.

[mikey_LFC]

Trent isn’t good enough defensively to play as a 6, we don’t need a deep lying playmaker we need someone who can keep the ball moving and is a defensive wall, we have creativity in abundance but lack recovery pace, aerial ability and ball winning aggression

I disagree, I think Trent is absolutely good enough defensively to play 6. Also the requirements for our midfield change if we start playing with a double pivot.

[Fromola]

Not sure I agree with the squad option either. The same was said of Milner towards the end, a "closer" type, but his legs had gone that when he came on he was still getting done.

36 year old Milner looked more mobile than Endo.

We haven't been a pressing machine in midfield in two years, and that's because it isn't mobile enough (the 8s are now, but the 6 isnt). We have been passive, easily bullied (Palace twice...the game at their place but for the sending off (and it was a weak one) we never looked like getting back level, and the first half at Anfield, the fella shouldn't have been anywhere near the team sheet), and overrun (Atalanta was a disgrace). The two games at OT, the gaps galore in midifield allowed a pathetic United to get through too easily without having to do much). One hook over his head by Casimiro into oceans of space infront of the defence (no DM in sight, eventually you see him chasing back behind the runners as per usual). Even the breakaway in the cup, when Harvey sliced the ball, United broke.,..and the wee 30 year fella was in his familiar role of seeing the back of opponents shirts (he saw it again vs West Ham, one for which he got booked by dragging the player back).

Squad player should mean good options off the bench, players who can enhance the team performance when they enter the field. He's not terrible. He's tidy on the ball, his heart and effort is there, but we need alot more than a player in a key position, a pivotal position, who wouldn't get in a top 10 PL side. This league is too quick to carry passengers. I think I'm being generous by limiting it to the top 10, as I dont think he would get in the Everton side. Gueye, no way he is a better player than him.

Always said going into the season and at the start we weren't strong enough at 6 position to sustain a title challenge.

Who knows if Caicedo would have made the difference. Even Lavia if in theory we got him and he'd stayed fit or Bajcetic. Endo did his best and helped tide us over but he's too slow and should not have been left starting as much as he was over the season. Mac is a top player but he's not someone you can play as a 6 every week either, it's not his position, as least not with our system.

[spider-neil]

I wonder if we will purchase Matts Weifer as a shortcut of improving the DM position with a player who is already familiar with Slot's style of play. The only problem is he isn't very quick and lacks recovery pace.

[Draex]

Always said going into the season and at the start we weren't strong enough at 6 position to sustain a title challenge.

Who knows if Caicedo would have made the difference. Even Lavia if in theory we got him and he'd stayed fit or Bajcetic. Endo did his best and helped tide us over but he's too slow and should not have been left starting as much as he was over the season. Mac is a top player but he's not someone you can play as a 6 every week either, it's not his position, as least not with our system.

Maybe you should have a word with Jurgen, considering he picked Endo and pushed for his signing and spent the entire season saying the problems at 6 were down to lack of team shape, pressing and counter pressing not one individual.

[Garlic Red]

I wonder if we will purchase Matts Weifer as a shortcut of improving the DM position with a player who is already familiar with Slot's style of play. The only problem is he isn't very quick and lacks recovery pace.

There are a few players at Feyenoord who in theory would make a bit of sense. I’ve said in here a couple of times, the club will have their list of players and familiarity with the new manager probably ranks at the bottom of any metric they may factor into the signing, in my view anyway. Someone like Geertruida may have been on our radar regardless like, but I’m finding it hard to believe we’d deviate that much from our own list of targets given how rigid some of our pursuits have been over the years.

I’m expecting a proper savvy window from the club. I find it hard to believe we’ll be shopping in the weaker leagues for anything other than prospects. Any players for the core squad I imagine will come from the top 5 leagues or strong CL sides outside of those.

[mikey_LFC]

There are a few players at Feyenoord who in theory would make a bit of sense. I’ve said in here a couple of times, the club will have their list of players and familiarity with the new manager probably ranks at the bottom of any metric they may factor into the signing, in my view anyway. Someone like Geertruida may have been on our radar regardless like, but I’m finding it hard to believe we’d deviate that much from our own list of targets given how rigid some of our pursuits have been over the years.

I’m expecting a proper savvy window from the club. I find it hard to believe we’ll be shopping in the weaker leagues for anything other than prospects. Any players for the core squad I imagine will come from the top 5 leagues or strong CL sides outside of those.

Agree with this. I don’t think Slot would want us to focus on bringing in his old players either.

The same logic always happens when a manager moves but very few moves happen due to this, especially when a club is well run. If I’m right, Klopp didn’t sign one former player.

[classycarra]

Maybe you should have a word with Jurgen, considering he picked Endo and pushed for his signing and spent the entire season saying the problems at 6 were down to lack of team shape, pressing and counter pressing not one individual.

at the end of the summer window, after multiple high profile transfer efforts failed. and this was something like three or four consecutive windows that the club failed in their pursuits (on the rare occasion they made some) to sign one.

if you genuinely think he pushed for Endo as the missing link at 6, you're wild! i'm guessing you don't though, and just want to argue with fromola's very non-controversial point that he's slow and started too much

[mikey_LFC]

at the end of the summer window, after multiple high profile transfer efforts failed. and this was something like three or four consecutive windows that the club failed in their pursuits (on the rare occasion they made some) to sign one.

if you genuinely think he pushed for Endo as the missing link at 6, you're wild! i'm guessing you don't though, and just want to argue with fromola's very non-controversial point that he's slow and started too much

Do you think the club were too ambitious in who they were targeting then?

[Asam]

I disagree, I think Trent is absolutely good enough defensively to play 6. Also the requirements for our midfield change if we start playing with a double pivot.

why hasn’t he played there then? we have a very good right back In Bradley, there were plenty of occasions where Klopp could have used Trent as an outright 6 and never chose to do so

Trent was an attacking 8 before he got converted to a right back, it would be like playing Gerrard as a 6, yes he can do it but his best attributes would be under utilised and I think Gerrard was better defensively than Trent

[Asam]

I wonder if we will purchase Matts Weifer as a shortcut of improving the DM position with a player who is already familiar with Slot's style of play. The only problem is he isn't very quick and lacks recovery pace.

He’s not a good fit if he’s got poor recovery pace

[Draex]

at the end of the summer window, after multiple high profile transfer efforts failed. and this was something like three or four consecutive windows that the club failed in their pursuits (on the rare occasion they made some) to sign one.

if you genuinely think he pushed for Endo as the missing link at 6, you're wild! i'm guessing you don't though, and just want to argue with fromola's very non-controversial point that he's slow and started too much

He pushed for Endo that is fact, you're adding in "missing link" to add drama. Klopp has on multiple times stated that conceeding goals was a team collective thing, are you calling him a lier?

How we got there is impossible to know but we agreed a world record fee for Caicedo literally the week before.

Why did he get started too much? We've had so many injuries, again fact, even Macca was looking fatigued by the end.

Just because Fromola wants to turn every thread into FSG are shit one, doesn't make it right and as I said above Endo starting too much is down to variables outside of the tiresome FSG v's Klopp debate you and others want to continually push onto the forum.

I'd rather look forward to life after Klopp and what that looks like, including improving the 6 position as I've stated many times before.

[Asam]

Baj is definitely a defensive midfield. In fact, he started as a centre back and became a defensive midfielder.

He did play as a 6 but the times when he had more freedom and was playing further advanced he looked much better to me

[classycarra]

Do you think the club were too ambitious in who they were targeting then?

No. I don't see how anyone could draw that conclusion after looking at the midfield over the last 5 or 6 transfer windows before last summer.

And by all accounts, they (again) weren't showing any ambition to improve on Henderson or Fabinho, despite ample evidence they were both finished as starters, until they were bailed out by them requesting doped transfers

He pushed for Endo that is fact, you're adding in "missing link" to add drama. Klopp has on multiple times stated that conceeding goals was a team collective thing, are you calling him a lier?

accusing other posters of looking to add drama while you flop around spouting childish nonsense like 'so you think Klopp's a liar'

at least you recognise your own contribution there to Fromola as tiresome

[Garlic Red]

No. I don't see how anyone could draw that conclusion after looking at the midfield over the last 5 or 6 transfer windows before last summer.

And by all accounts, they (again) weren't showing any ambition to improve on Henderson or Fabinho, despite ample evidence they were both finished as starters, until they were bailed out by them requesting doped transfers

Who’s they, though? Surely Klopp is the biggest factor in ‘they’ if you’re alluding to the people that make decisions at the club?

[classycarra]

Who’s they, though? Surely Klopp is the biggest factor in ‘they’ if you’re alluding to the people that make decisions at the club?

isn't that a little incongruous with what we saw in January 2021, when he was begging "they" for a defender? Unless you think that was Klopp's fault too.

I didn't expect so many people to still get so exercised and leap to the defence of the ownership group (at the expense of the manager) at this point in 2024! but I guess it's pretty much entrenched for both draex and mikey (neither unexpected), and I guess you used to post on here and the FSG chat too given you've mentioned how RAWK used to talk about this stuff

[Garlic Red]

isn't that a little incongruous with what we saw in January 2021, when he was begging "they" for a defender? Unless you think that was Klopp's fault too.

I didn't expect so many people to still get so exercised and leap to the defence of the ownership group (at the expense of the manager) at this point in 2024! but I guess it's pretty much entrenched for both draex and mikey (neither unexpected), and I guess you used to post on here and the FSG chat too given you've mentioned how RAWK used to talk about this stuff

I don’t blame anyone, my kind of thing is we’re all in it together and we all make mistakes together, throwing out blame and picking a side in a tribalistic way just isn’t how I think about the club and how we act. I subscribe to TAW and you tend to get some pretty balanced arguments on both sides with some sitting in the middle. I tend to sit in the middle and think every decision that gets made will involve all parties, so attributing blame for me is just wasted energy and when I see it I often think it’s daft. I’ve seen people saying Darwin etc were Klopp signings not data signings and I’ve argued against that, just as I’d argue against anyone saying Endo was a club signing and Klopp didn’t want him.

This is my first account but I read the forum for years, registration was closed whenever I tried.

[classycarra]

I don’t blame anyone, my kind of thing is we’re all in it together and we all make mistakes together, throwing out blame and picking a side in a tribalistic way just isn’t how I think about the club and how we act. I subscribe to TAW and you tend to get some pretty balanced arguments on both sides with some sitting in the middle. I tend to sit in the middle and think every decision that gets made will involve all parties, so attributing blame for me is just wasted energy and when I see it I often think it’s daft. I’ve seen people saying Darwin etc were Klopp signings not data signings and I’ve argued against that, just as I’d argue against anyone saying Endo was a club signing and Klopp didn’t want him.

This is my first account but I read the forum for years, registration was closed whenever I tried.

broadly with you there (agree about both the silly Nunez/Endo examples too), except I don't see ownership as part of the tribe. I agree with Shanks' distinction there.

thats why i'm always a bit bemused when people talk about a group of hedge fund managers in the same way they do about our team and boss, getting emotional when defending them is just bizarre to me. although it at least makes slightly more sense than when people do it over random companies outside of sporting loyalties, like apple or tesla (or people like elon musk).

[A Red Abroad]

why hasn’t he played there then? we have a very good right back In Bradley, there were plenty of occasions where Klopp could have used Trent as an outright 6 and never chose to do so

Trent was an attacking 8 before he got converted to a right back, it would be like playing Gerrard as a 6, yes he can do it but his best attributes would be under utilised and I think Gerrard was better defensively than Trent

Yeah, Stevie could actually put a tackle in.

Trent is a fantastic, creative player - I don't think he's a defensive (No 6) midfielder, though.

[Chris~]

You could play Trent as a 6 but you'd need to have a Kante/Rice/Mascherano type player playing as an 8. And if you're signing that kind of player you might as well play Mac Allister as a 6 who I think is/would be a lot better than Trent there.

[Asam]

Yeah, Stevie could actually put a tackle in.

Trent is a fantastic, creative player - I don't think he's a defensive (No 6) midfielder, though.

Exactly, you won’t play KDB as a CDM, why would we do the same thing with Trent? he’s not a great tackler, not great in the air, not great at anticipating danger, doesn’t have tremendous recovery pace either, if he has time on the ball he can pick out a pass but that’s why he’s out wide now so he gets more time on the ball and can playmake

[KC7]

that's when his season ender was diagnosed, but Matip did get injured in December 2020. A muscle injury, having already started the season with a muscle injury and being leaned on for increased minutes in spite of this (something Klopp was evidently conscious of, as he made public the next season that the club had taken risks leaning on him too much from the start of that season).

So again, it's valid to say the writing was on the wall in when Matip got his groin injury at the end of December and useful context to why Klopp was clearly and even visibly desperate for support that January (as were Robertson and Van Dijk) that wasn't forthcoming from the money men.

Ahh that refreshes my mind on Matip. Knew he was struggling (came off twice) and having checked we did play Fabinho and Rhys Williams vs Spurs and Fabinho and Nat Phillips vs Newcastle in December (latter game was the last). Even it Matip had been fit and not breaking down with his issue, we needed two CB in on 1 January as you dont go through a season with just 2. For almost have a season we had none.

We then started the new year top of the table at Southampton on 4th January, so a day or two after Jurgen's press conference that a new CB was "unlikely" to a stunned press room, with the CB pairing of Fabinho and Hendo, so an empty midfield and a makeshift backline, and lost 1-0, and that's when the freefall commenced.

Given Andy Robertson's hopeful comment in late December about help coming in, and that not coming in, that would undoubtedly have demoralised the players. It certainly showed in the results. What they achieved in getting us top was remarkable. Unfortunately we have the owners we do.


As much as I adore Jurgen, the annoyance from my perspective, on behalf of him and his reputation, is he took hits that he had no right to take. He was extremely coy during that first press conference, and three weeks later, after a few defeats and growing frustration, only opened up more about restrictions. On one hand it's a positive by just getting on with it, by making do, but it also impacts his reputation when results under such circumstances go against us.

Had he been backed and been able to bring two CB in through the door on 1 January, like any competent club who backs the manager, the likelihood of us winning the league was high as that midfied we had was a machine (the run we went on (with two lower league standard CB in Phillips and Williams) is testament to how good it was). Unfortunately the current owners guaranteed we wouldn't win the league.

[mickeydocs]

I agree, and even more games next year, we are getting to the point you need two first 11s of similar quality to compete.

Hopefully we will soon return to the policy of buying players in the 23-24 bracket about to hit peak. Endo is at best a second choice and the Badger has plenty of time to develop.