Topic: HBO Series:- The Last of Us [spoiler tags approach applies!]

[Snail]

Second best episode of the series for me.

[The G in Gerrard]

Second best episode of the series for me.

Agreed. The one with Henry being the best?

[AndyMuller]

I'm loving the show don't get me wrong, but to play devil's advocate, does it have to be virtually a shot for shot remake of the game? Seems a bit pointless if so

I’d say they have left a lot of the gamey parts out no?

[Brian Blessed]

Yeah it was mostly very good

ep 8 spoiler

Spoiler

another in their catalogue of successfully introducing and sort of fleshing out a character for a one episode shelf life. He played it great, was spot on and they did incredibly well by being economical and not overdoing culty/preachy stuff.

Think they maybe hammed up the infected wound (then similarly overdid recovering), but it wasn't bad.

One question I'd ask of those who haven't played the games - how did the violence from Joel (inc torture and beating the last guy to death) go down with you?

I was wondering if the group from the village not having been after them in this episode may have made it seem more stark especially after a week (couldn't tell you what any of the four people in episode 7 looked like, or who the three surivors were among the men in the village)

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to answer your question

Spoiler

Joel had said he’s done terrible things, so I suppose this confirms it. Seems there are very few good people. Seeing what Joel and Ellie are willing to do to save each other and themselves, it’s to be to judge on what other groups do (bar the cannibalism/attempted paedo rape). These two just happen to be “our” characters.

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[LovelyCushionedHeader]

I'm loving the show don't get me wrong, but to play devil's advocate, does it have to be virtually a shot for shot remake of the game? Seems a bit pointless if so

It's only slightly pointless if you've played the game. But regardless of how popular the game is/was, that only covers a very small percentage of the population.

[B0151?]

It's only slightly pointless if you've played the game. But regardless of how popular the game is/was, that only covers a very small percentage of the population.

For me the game came out 10 years ago now. I only played it maybe 5 or 6 and I still can't remember anything other than the ending so definitely haven't had that problem

Been amazing in the videos after I've seen the eps to see how many scenes are from the game. Testament how perfect the story was.

[B0151?]

I’d say they have left a lot of the gamey parts out no?

And yeah there's a few big game fans I've seen who haven't been happy at the lack of infected so they definitely have made certain creative decisions. Correctly so imo you can get that anywhere or just play the games. Joel and Ellie are why the game is so special.

[GreatEx]

I mean, sure, I'd like one of them to brick a clicker or toss a bottle to distract a horde, but it's not important, and I think when they had Joel pull out a roll of duct tape a few episodes ago and use it to... repair a shoe?!?... that was a signal to gamers that the show wasn't going to be some never-ending stream of nerd fetishism.

[Zlen]

Thing about the absence of clickers is that it's been 4 episodes now with none or minimal screen time for what essentially ended the world. I know it's not about them vs zombies - but it feels like they are travelling through the world quite easily avoiding this omnipresent danger with little issues. Not sure if it's similar in the game, just feels like this threat has melted away in second half of the season.

[Schmidt]

Thing about the absence of clickers is that it's been 4 episodes now with none or minimal screen time for what essentially ended the world. I know it's not about them vs zombies - but it feels like they are travelling through the world quite easily avoiding this omnipresent danger with little issues. Not sure if it's similar in the game, just feels like this threat has melted away in second half of the season.

Episode 5 ended with a massacre and 7 was a flashback where the only two character featured both got bit, so not sure that's quite true.

That said, it does feel like they've been a bit too economical in removing gameplay, resulting in the pacing being a bit too quick.

I'll call this a game spoiler, but really it's just talking about episode 8 and how the gameplay loop changed the pace a little.

Spoiler

From what I remember, in the game Joel reaches Ellie by having to evade/kill townspeople while travelling through a snowstorm. While it makes sense to cut out the "gamey" bits, that part of the game also showed what the other people were doing at the time and why no one was reacting to a building being on fire. It also made Joel's miraculous recovery a bit more believable and made Ellie's imprisonment a bit longer and more harrowing, as in the show it felt like it was all over in 5 minutes. The same can be said of the fight between Ellie and David, she takes him down pretty quick when in the game you have to land lots of small cuts, and while I don't think they should have made her need to stab him 20 times, I think 3-4 would have made the build to her finishing him off how she did a bit less jarring.

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[El Lobo]

I'm loving the show don't get me wrong, but to play devil's advocate, does it have to be virtually a shot for shot remake of the game? Seems a bit pointless if so

I think they flesh out the parts they're able to flesh out, but its an adaptation of the game...and the main thing which makes the game one of the best games ever is the storyline

[Zlen]

Btw, where were all the people from that resort at the end of last episode?
Did they have a prayer hour or something?

[Schmidt]

Btw, where were all the people from that resort at the end of last episode?
Did they have a prayer hour or something?

I mentioned it in my post above, basically they removed a sequence from the game that was largely just gameplay, but as a result they also removed the explanation for why people didn't notice a building on fire.

[Schmidt]

I should probably add that the show is great regardless, I'm just nitpicking.

[classycarra]

Thing about the absence of clickers is that it's been 4 episodes now with none or minimal screen time for what essentially ended the world. I know it's not about them vs zombies - but it feels like they are travelling through the world quite easily avoiding this omnipresent danger with little issues. Not sure if it's similar in the game, just feels like this threat has melted away in second half of the season.

Playing devils advocate for this, my defense of this would be that its 20 odd years beyond that end of the world event - so the number of susceptibles who can become zombies is much diminished, and many have died of hunger already.

Dunno if it's a deliberate move or not, but my mates partner isn't watching this cos she's bored of dystopian pandemic type stuff and I know people at work in the same boat - bit of a busmans holiday these last three years - so maybe it's a conscious effort to offset that.

I mentioned it in my post above, basically they removed a sequence from the game that was largely just gameplay, but as a result they also removed the explanation for why people didn't notice a building on fire.

I can't remember what that was, so yeh I did find it a bit jarring how there was no concern the 30 other people might not be about

[Sangria]

Playing devils advocate for this, my defense of this would be that its 20 odd years beyond that end of the world event - so the number of susceptibles who can become zombies is much diminished, and many have died of hunger already.

Dunno if it's a deliberate move or not, but my mates partner isn't watching this cos she's bored of dystopian pandemic type stuff and I know people at work in the same boat - bit of a busmans holiday these last three years - so maybe it's a conscious effort to offset that.

I bet they didn't have to deal with bloaters or economise on ammunition usage though.

[Red Viper]

It's only slightly pointless if you've played the game. But regardless of how popular the game is/was, that only covers a very small percentage of the population.

I guess it's bringing it to a larger audience I'm just not generally a fan of adaptations that are done purely for adaptations sake.

[Schmidt]

I can't remember what that was, so yeh I did find it a bit jarring how there was no concern the 30 other people might not be about

There was a snowstorm IIRC, so people couldn't see the building on fire and were largely focused on something else, possibly hunting Joel.

[Spongebob Redpants]

For me the game came out 10 years ago now. I only played it maybe 5 or 6 and I still can't remember anything other than the ending so definitely haven't had that problem

Ha - thought it was just me - even the ending is hazy !

Been a few years since I played the game , so tempted to try it again to see how close it is to the game .

Great series though - enjoying it far more than I thought I would .

[bradders1011]

Enjoyed the episode, but

Spoiler

is "Sadistic post-apocalyptic 'Christian' preacher" a bit hackneyed now? Haven't played the game but the moment it came on I had no doubt he was the episode's big bad.

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[GreatEx]

Another fine episode but I agree with others that the pacing seems a bit frenetic when you cut out large chunks of gameplay-driven storyline, such as the aforementioned...

Spoiler

Joel finding his way through the snowstorm and picking off cult members

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as well as

Spoiler

the journey David and Ellie share, including being besieged by infected in a hunting lodge, where a bond of trust seems to be developing between the two

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[El Lobo]

Enjoyed the episode, but

Spoiler

is "Sadistic post-apocalyptic 'Christian' preacher" a bit hackneyed now? Haven't played the game but the moment it came on I had no doubt he was the episode's big bad.

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Might be wrong (as with a few, its a while since I played it) but....

Spoiler

in the game I dont particularly remember him being religious or anything, he was just....the leader of a group of cannibals. So guess thats a bit of artistic license being played

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Another fine episode but I agree with others that the pacing seems a bit frenetic when you cut out large chunks of gameplay-driven storyline, such as the aforementioned...

It is a bit yeah. I'm sure they could have dragged it into a few seasons for each 'game' but then would have had a lot of fleshing out and I imagine people might actually have got a bit bored.

[Fabulous_aurelio]

A fantastic episode. I thought it was Bella best episode. Some of the acting towards the end was excellent.

Every Monday I get really excited about finishing work and watching this and every week it does not disappoint.

The empty village towards the end was a bit jarring as a few have said, but it seems there's a reason for that which was in the game.

[kellan]

Playing devils advocate for this, my defense of this would be that its 20 odd years beyond that end of the world event - so the number of susceptibles who can become zombies is much diminished, and many have died of hunger already.

Dunno if it's a deliberate move or not, but my mates partner isn't watching this cos she's bored of dystopian pandemic type stuff and I know people at work in the same boat - bit of a busmans holiday these last three years - so maybe it's a conscious effort to offset that.

Those behind the game have always liked to talk it up as being a people vs people story. The infected have always been something of a gameplay necessity more than anything else. I would say the limited presence of the infected in the show is a combo of wanting to really ramp up the people vs people thing and what is just the natural outcome of removing the gameplay sections. That said, I doubt anyone involved in the production of the show was too afraid to strip it of its zombie apocalypse feel and let it stand apart from many recent contributions to the genre.

It all does leave me wondering why the show bothered to change the mechanics of the cordyceps from spores to tendrils, though. The infected have featured so little that I can't honestly see what difference it would have made to leave the spores in. Many people, upon hearing of the change pre-release, assumed the whole thing was related to not wanting characters faces obscured by masks on the screen for too long a time, but I can't really remember any scene that had me thinking 'a mask would be being worn right now if spores were still a thing'. The show hasn't really replicated those tight and unventilated indoor spaces at all. Which is all very annoying...

Part II spoiler:

Spoiler

Because no spores means Ellie can't kill Nora the same way she does in the game, and I'm yet to see what the tendrils have going for them that's so worth robbing the HBO story of the original Ellie and Nora fight.

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[GreatEx]

@el Lobo: correct that there was no religious mention in the game, but also I don't remember whether the game introduced us to the Silver Lake community beyond their interactions with Ellie and Joel,  so maybe it's just fleshing out ideas that the game creators already had but didn't spell out. Similar to the rebels in episode 4&5.

[Lee1-6Liv]

The guy who played James in last nights episode played Joel in the game.

[Schmarn]

Never played the game but it’s been a smart move to focus on the human threat over the fungal zombie one. Endless seasons of the Walking Dead listening to the sound of squelching flesh will inure you to the risk element.

Really enjoyed the show so far. My Monday treat!

[Judge Red]

The guy who played James in last nights episode played Joel in the game.

The legend that is Troy Baker

[Bread]

Fair play to Scott Shepherd. Not quite an episode stealing performance because Bella Ramsey was incredible once again, but he was absolutely excellent.

[GreatEx]

I thought that, physically, Troy Baker was a closer match for the game David, and it would have been kind of cool to see Joel's voice playing the sinister father figure in the show, but for the way the role was written in the show I think Shepherd was good.

[Red Beret]

I'm loving the show don't get me wrong, but to play devil's advocate, does it have to be virtually a shot for shot remake of the game? Seems a bit pointless if so

Watching the series episode by episode alongside a "movie" of the gameplay cut scenes, I'm finding it fascinating viewing the creative decisions that change the concept from a game with a good story to a series with a good story.

The situation with Henry (no spoilers obviously) changes from simply another game task stage to be completed to one of character driven conflict to achieve a shared aim. And of course, Bill and Frank becomes a story in its own right, which is very much a departure from the game.

I'm reminded of the film "Let Me In". I've seen parts of the original Swedish version, but I hear the American version was virtually a shot-by-shot remake. Objectively, it could be seen as a testament to the high quality of writing in both that there' so little that needs to be done - it's simply a case of bringing the story to a wider audience. 

I did creative writing at degree level, and it has to be said they've probably needed a lot of restraint to resist the urge to try and "make things better", or make wholesale changes whilst arguing they're keeping to the "spirit of the game".

I've not played Halo either, but I heard that was a bit of clusterfuck from many fans' perspective. It probably serves as a good warning not to mess around with the source material too much, but then Halo has a lot more lore attached to it also.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Halo was awesome.

[Dench57]

Think the last ep was one where I felt

Spoiler

her relationship with David, which I understand lasts a fair bit longer in the game, probably could've been developed a bit more over a 2-episode arc. Didn't feel like that community's characters had a chance to breathe really.

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Still the best thing on telly though.

[The G in Gerrard]

Last one already Monday

[Grobbelrevell]

Never played the game but it’s been a smart move to focus on the human threat over the fungal zombie one. Endless seasons of the Walking Dead listening to the sound of squelching flesh will inure you to the risk element.

Now you've made the comparison, it is noticeable how, in about 5 or 6 episodes, TLOU has essentially gone on a journey that TWD covered in ~4 seasons.

1) Apocalypse!
2) Walkers/Infected threat
3) Walkers/Infected become peripheral
3) People threat (comic book baddies galore)

I'm enjoying it, don't get me wrong, but it has felt very rushed. I feel like we've been through two seasons of storyline in 8 episodes.

[Ultimate Bromance]

Not sure how I felt about the finale, just felt a bit rushed? Like they hit all the checkpoints, everything was there, and it's done well, but I felt like it could have used the extra 15-20 minutes you sometimes get in season finales, just to let certain scenes breathe instead of just jumping from scene to scene. In any case, a really brilliant season and a fantastic benchmark for future adaptations.

[GreatEx]

Haven't watched it yet but am not at all surprised by UB's reaction, I was really surprised to see the finale's only 50 minutes along, simply cannot see how you could wrap the game storyline up in that time. Why did they devote so much time to the spring and autumn chapters and only one episode each to winter and spring? Were they originally promised 12 episodes or something?

[kellan]

Haven't watched it yet but am not at all surprised by UB's reaction, I was really surprised to see the finale's only 50 minutes along, simply cannot see how you could wrap the game storyline up in that time. Why did they devote so much time to the spring and autumn chapters and only one episode each to winter and spring? Were they originally promised 12 episodes or something?

It's not even 50 minutes, it's 43 at a generous count. Which I believe makes it the shortest episode of all? I had my reservations going in, for the reason you mention, and sadly I did finish up watching it thinking I was right to have braced myself for feeling like too much would be condensed into too short a time. The only thing that has stopped me feeling truly disappointed by that is me having spent much of the season thinking the pacing is a weakness. The finale felt very much on brand in that respect.

It was supposed to have ten episodes but was reduced to nine. But apparently the change was at the beginning, with the first two episodes rolled into one.

[AndyMuller]

Haven’t watched the finale yet but it is pretty mad if they’ve fitted the whole game and the left behind dlc into just 9 episodes. It is a long game even without the dlc included, the sequel is even longer so no idea how many episodes they will fit that in.

[classycarra]

havent watched it yet and have avoided spoilers, but just spotted its only 43 minutes long. that's unexpected

EDIT: watched it now and was going to say that it had great moments (and one or two i disliked), but it really suffered because they didn't let it breathe. scrolled up and say UB say the exact same thing - about letting it breathe. pacing was just pretty horiffic