Author Topic: The UK Economy - Is it the 1970's again?  (Read 24806 times)

Offline Gili Gulu

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Re: The UK Economy - Is it the 1970's again?
« Reply #280 on: January 26, 2024, 10:36:03 pm »
Looking to me more and more like we're going to follow the same road that Argentina went down in the 20th Century, starting out as one of the richest economies in the world and and ending up as a perpetual basket case.

We've taken our first steps to demagoguery with Johnson. We're now getting more and more government ministers interested only in lining their own pockets. Standards in public life are starting to drop markedly, freedom of the press being gradually eroded, and the BBC slowly being converted into a State Propaganda organ.


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Online Studgotelli

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Re: The UK Economy - Is it the 1970's again?
« Reply #281 on: January 27, 2024, 05:08:13 pm »
Looking to me more and more like we're going to follow the same road that Argentina went down in the 20th Century, starting out as one of the richest economies in the world and and ending up as a perpetual basket case.

We've taken our first steps to demagoguery with Johnson. We're now getting more and more government ministers interested only in lining their own pockets. Standards in public life are starting to drop markedly, freedom of the press being gradually eroded, and the BBC slowly being converted into a State Propaganda organ.

Similar conclusion I’ve made.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2024, 05:10:01 pm by Studgotelli »

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Re: The UK Economy - Is it the 1970's again?
« Reply #282 on: January 28, 2024, 12:03:20 pm »
Got paid today and the NI reduction has kicked in which is good news I guess

Think the whole NI reduction idea is just so that labour will look bad once they're in power and have to put it back up.
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Offline Nobby Reserve

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Re: The UK Economy - Is it the 1970's again?
« Reply #283 on: January 29, 2024, 11:09:40 am »
Looking at the list of the highest payers of tax in the UK (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68093172), the main thing I noted is that a number of the richest people in the UK don't appear on it.

Chief amongst those was Monaco-based (for tax reasons) shitbag Jim Ratcliffe.

When he moved his 'tax residency' to Monaco in 2020, it was reported (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/sep/25/sir-jim-ratcliffe-uks-richest-person-moves-to-tax-free-monaco-brexit-ineos-domicile) the move would save him £4bn in tax.

That, of course, being £4bn denied to the UK for funding salaries of nurses and doctors and police officers, or rebuilding crumbling schools.

I will never understand why these tax-traitors aren't vilified by the general public.

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Offline flemingcool

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Re: The UK Economy - Is it the 1970's again?
« Reply #284 on: January 29, 2024, 11:59:58 am »
Looking at the list of the highest payers of tax in the UK (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68093172), the main thing I noted is that a number of the richest people in the UK don't appear on it.

Chief amongst those was Monaco-based (for tax reasons) shitbag Jim Ratcliffe.

When he moved his 'tax residency' to Monaco in 2020, it was reported (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/sep/25/sir-jim-ratcliffe-uks-richest-person-moves-to-tax-free-monaco-brexit-ineos-domicile) the move would save him £4bn in tax.

That, of course, being £4bn denied to the UK for funding salaries of nurses and doctors and police officers, or rebuilding crumbling schools.

I will never understand why these tax-traitors aren't vilified by the general public.



Yep.. Personally think these people should have access to UK consumers or government contacts restricted somehow.  If they don't want to contribute to the UK they shouldn't be able to benefit from the UK.

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Re: The UK Economy - Is it the 1970's again?
« Reply #285 on: January 29, 2024, 12:11:44 pm »
They're told to worship them, instead  ;)

The people who pull the strings of media and government, are the super-rich, tax avoiders.

They're told "you could be like them, and then you wouldn't want to pay that much tax either, so let them be". But obviously that isn't true.

£4bn in tax though?!? The mind boggles. That would renovate all the schools in the country I think?
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Offline Jshooters

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Re: The UK Economy - Is it the 1970's again?
« Reply #286 on: January 29, 2024, 12:55:35 pm »
They're told "you could be like them, and then you wouldn't want to pay that much tax either, so let them be". But obviously that isn't true.

£4bn in tax though?!? The mind boggles. That would renovate all the schools in the country I think?

Depends on the level of renovation required as it would be about £166,000 per school. 
Believer

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Re: The UK Economy - Is it the 1970's again?
« Reply #287 on: January 29, 2024, 02:13:23 pm »
Depends on the level of renovation required as it would be about £166,000 per school. 

Ok, not quite enough :-\

Think I read the average secondary school needs £1.5m of renovation/refurbishment.
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Re: The UK Economy - Is it the 1970's again?
« Reply #288 on: January 29, 2024, 04:25:56 pm »
Yep.  All that money that you worked hard for, shouldn't go on tax.


The RWM narrative is more "All that money that you worked hard for, shouldn't go to pay for benefits scroungers being given £50k a year to bring up 12 kids, or for migrants to get cushy hotel accommodation and £20 a day free money to try to lure your daughters into sex rings"

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Re: The UK Economy - Is it the 1970's again?
« Reply #289 on: February 1, 2024, 06:34:43 am »
Yep.. Personally think these people should have access to UK consumers or government contacts restricted somehow.  If they don't want to contribute to the UK they shouldn't be able to benefit from the UK.
I wonder if there's a case that any company earning over £x in this country has to have an office here and pay tax here? And maybe a limit on dividends, but an unlimited, taxable, paye salary.
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Offline gazzalfc

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Re: The UK Economy - Is it the 1970's again?
« Reply #290 on: February 1, 2024, 12:23:43 pm »
Interest rates staying at 5.25%. Inflation expected to get down to around 2-3% this year. Interest rates likely to stay where they are for the next few months.

There was a three-way split today. Two voted to increase it to 5.5%, one wanted to reduce it to 5% and the other six were in favour of the hold

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Re: The UK Economy - Is it the 1970's again?
« Reply #291 on: February 1, 2024, 12:26:09 pm »
Interest rates staying at 5.25%. Inflation expected to get down to around 2-3% this year. Interest rates likely to stay where they are for the next few months.

There was a three-way split today. Two voted to increase it to 5.5%, one wanted to reduce it to 5% and the other six were in favour of the hold


 :'(


Another few steps toward financial oblivion for me and my family, then.

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Offline killer-heels

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Re: The UK Economy - Is it the 1970's again?
« Reply #292 on: February 1, 2024, 02:03:50 pm »
Some evil c*nts actually wanted to increase it?

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Re: The UK Economy - Is it the 1970's again?
« Reply #293 on: February 14, 2024, 04:06:33 pm »
Inflation stuck at 4%.

Is the 2% target we have still a good target? It's been there as long as I can remember and seemingly nobody has questioned it.  If wages keep pace with inflation, would a faster rate indicate a growing economy and generally be good?  Although I suppose public service budgets also have to keep pace with this.
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Re: The UK Economy - Is it the 1970's again?
« Reply #294 on: February 14, 2024, 05:00:39 pm »
Inflation stuck at 4%.

Is the 2% target we have still a good target? It's been there as long as I can remember and seemingly nobody has questioned it.  If wages keep pace with inflation, would a faster rate indicate a growing economy and generally be good?  Although I suppose public service budgets also have to keep pace with this.



The problem with inflation in the eyes of many who are economically right-of-centre is that it can devalue both money deposits and debt over time.

Given that people more prone to be economically right-of-centre are statistically more likely to have stores of money and little debt.

Inflation has drawbacks - and the impact on debt and money is lessened due to the adoption of monetarist 'supply side' economics (using interest rates to control inflation, rather than governmental tax & spend policy) - but overall, and assuming wages keep roughly apace with inflation, it is a positive for those with debt and a negative for those with stocks of money.



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Offline alonsoisared

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Re: The UK Economy - Is it the 1970's again?
« Reply #295 on: February 14, 2024, 06:24:16 pm »
I've been living abroad for six years now and it's more and more noticeable when I'm home that absolutely nothing has had any money spent on it. Buildings run down, high streets reduced to pound shops and vape shops, city centres all looking pretty much identical. Then there's big vanity projects that don't actually seem to improve anyone's lives in any way. And that's cities, you go into the suburbs and the situation is even worse.

I'm in Madrid and it's a bit unfair I suppose to compare as a capital city but their public spaces are beautiful in comparison, and I find it the same in every city and town I visit in Spain. There are communal areas that are immaculately kept, places for kids to play, proper spaces for older boys and girls to go and play football, padel, basketball, whatever they're into. There are obviously places struggling but the actual town centres and cities are miles nicer to visit than British ones.

The other difference I noticed then, presumably as a result, is a much greater sense of civic pride in Spain, other than people leaving dogshit on the floor everywhere, to be fair. At home wherever you go everyone is in agreement that it's a shit hole, nobody uses public spaces, where there are parks theyre often vandalised or left to ruin. People seem to care less about their neighbours and their community at home. That feels to me like that's as a direct result of a lack of investment. If community means nothing at the top level of government and no money is spent, why would it feel worthwhile for citizens?

I might be miles off the mark and Spain is by no means perfect, just an observation that becomes clearer every time I visit the UK. The place is absolutely crying out for a face lift, some proper investment in spaces that people will go and use and take pride in.

Offline Gili Gulu

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Re: The UK Economy - Is it the 1970's again?
« Reply #296 on: February 14, 2024, 06:32:53 pm »
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/DVvoyRpxG-A&amp;t=1s" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/DVvoyRpxG-A&amp;t=1s</a>

The problem with this country is wealth inequality, we're gradually going down the same sort of route as Argentina in the last century. The rich are installing corrupt politicians who allow them to maintain their wealth. They keep their money but now they don't want to invest in a country where the politicians are corrupt, so they move their money abroad. They don't want to invest in infrastructure and the NHS, but don't want to live in a country where everything is falling apart and people keep getting sick.

We need to start redistributing wealth, not just from the rich top few percent to the rest, but also across the country. One way is to start taxing UK citizen's foreign income. You don't have US citizens living abroad to avoid tax, because they can't. They've got the choice of giving up their US citizenship and that's it.


« Last Edit: February 14, 2024, 06:43:15 pm by Gili Gulu »
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Offline Nobby Reserve

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Re: The UK Economy - Is it the 1970's again?
« Reply #297 on: February 14, 2024, 06:53:54 pm »
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/DVvoyRpxG-A&amp;t=1s" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/DVvoyRpxG-A&amp;t=1s</a>

The problem with this country is wealth inequality, we're gradually going down the same sort of route as Argentina in the last century. The rich are installing corrupt politicians who allow them to maintain their wealth. They keep their money but now they don't want to invest in a country where the politicians are corrupt, so they move their money abroad. They don't want to invest in infrastructure and the NHS, but don't want to live in a country where everything is falling apart and people keep getting sick.

We need to start redistributing wealth, not just from the rich top few percent to the rest, but also across the country. One way is to start taxing UK citizen's foreign income. You don't have US citizens living abroad to avoid tax, because they can't. They've got the choice of giving up their US citizenship and that's it.


The gist of this is spot on.

The growing wealth imbalance is the absolute root of the problem
« Last Edit: February 14, 2024, 08:01:53 pm by Nobby Reserve »
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Re: The UK Economy - Is it the 1970's again?
« Reply #298 on: February 14, 2024, 07:23:16 pm »

Exactly this.

The very reason that bloated sack of shit johnson gave up his US citizenship. He pretended it was because Britain was so great but really the yanks wanted a big chunk of tax of him.

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Re: The UK Economy - Is it the 1970's again?
« Reply #299 on: February 15, 2024, 09:39:23 am »
UK in a technical recession, after the economy shrank by 0.3% in the last quarter.

Couple of papers reporting that Jeremy [c]Hunt looking to slash more from public sector budgets to fund tax cuts, which the Tories view as "politically essential ahead of a general election"

There's also the issue of making it tougher for the next Labour government to operate (unlikely they have the guts to reverse a senseless tax cut)

A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"

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Re: The UK Economy - Is it the 1970's again?
« Reply #300 on: February 15, 2024, 09:49:53 am »

There's also the issue of making it tougher for the next Labour government to operate (unlikely they have the guts to reverse a senseless tax cut)


Which is the reason we have relatively few labour governments. Unless the general voting public can join the dots between higher taxes and decent public services the Tories will always be popular.  The big elephant(s) in the room is that the electorate are always convinced that there are billionaires (people and companies) that should pay their fair share of tax first.  I suppose, thinking about it, we have to be helped to see the billionaires are manipulating us into thinking that they can't be made to contribute more.

ps - thanks to your reply about the 2% target.  I'd never thought of it that way. Low inflation benefits those with money. Those of us with big mortgages benefit from them being devalued , though paying interest rates that mean we are no better off!
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Offline gazzalfc

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Re: The UK Economy - Is it the 1970's again?
« Reply #301 on: February 15, 2024, 09:50:45 am »
#Rishession

Remember, these are supposed to be the 'Money People' brought in to guide the economy after Truss and her #PopCon posse tanked everything. This was supposed to be the easiest of Sunak's '5 pillars' to achieve and he can't even do that.

Just keep remembering this when you figure out which box to cross in an election

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Re: The UK Economy - Is it the 1970's again?
« Reply #302 on: February 15, 2024, 10:00:02 am »
#Rishession

Remember, these are supposed to be the 'Money People' brought in to guide the economy after Truss and her #PopCon posse tanked everything. This was supposed to be the easiest of Sunak's '5 pillars' to achieve and he can't even do that.

Just keep remembering this when you figure out which box to cross in an election

It's linked to the public spending less money, as our economy is hugely reliant on people spending.

You can hardly blame the public for cutting back their spending, currently, and not buying shit in the shops, leading up to Christmas.

Unless you are wealthy and can afford it, most people I know have cut back.

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Re: The UK Economy - Is it the 1970's again?
« Reply #303 on: February 15, 2024, 10:02:43 am »
#Rishession

Remember, these are supposed to be the 'Money People' brought in to guide the economy after Truss and her #PopCon posse tanked everything. This was supposed to be the easiest of Sunak's '5 pillars' to achieve and he can't even do that.

Just keep remembering this when you figure out which box to cross in an election

And yet people say they will hold their nose when voting Labour.

I dream of the days we can get back to square one. I hope Labour turn that little soundbite against Sunak and campaign on the country having a complete reset.
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Re: The UK Economy - Is it the 1970's again?
« Reply #304 on: February 15, 2024, 10:15:51 am »

Torsten Bell
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Seriously people - look at what's happening in terms of GDP/capita (which is what ultimately matters for our living standards). This is a proper recession just being hidden by having more people - GDP/capita declined 0.7 per cent in 2023 with falls in every single quarter


Offline Libertine

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Re: The UK Economy - Is it the 1970's again?
« Reply #305 on: February 15, 2024, 10:22:30 am »
Torsten Bell
@TorstenBell
Seriously people - look at what's happening in terms of GDP/capita (which is what ultimately matters for our living standards). This is a proper recession just being hidden by having more people - GDP/capita declined 0.7 per cent in 2023 with falls in every single quarter



Tories blushes being spared/mitigated by hugely increased immigration. Irony.

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Re: The UK Economy - Is it the 1970's again?
« Reply #306 on: February 15, 2024, 10:24:44 am »
It's linked to the public spending less money, as our economy is hugely reliant on people spending.

You can hardly blame the public for cutting back their spending, currently, and not buying shit in the shops, leading up to Christmas.

Unless you are wealthy and can afford it, most people I know have cut back.



The BoE are hamstrung about cutting interest rates without the Fed already having done so in the US. The Fed are increasingly being criticised by economists there for delaying rate cuts (https://www.ft.com/content/51415fa1-b0c5-4bca-9c05-9fe79d05ccb9)


If the BoE unilaterally cut rates, then the £ will lose value against the $. That will inch up fuel costs and other imports, triggering a spike in inflation.



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Offline thaddeus

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Re: The UK Economy - Is it the 1970's again?
« Reply #307 on: February 15, 2024, 11:27:12 am »
Torsten Bell
@TorstenBell
Seriously people - look at what's happening in terms of GDP/capita (which is what ultimately matters for our living standards). This is a proper recession just being hidden by having more people - GDP/capita declined 0.7 per cent in 2023 with falls in every single quarter


Grim stuff.  It would be good if Labour went in a bit harder on the Tories with stuff like this.  That tosser Hunt smugly telling us that things are improving when it's obvious in every aspect that it's not the case (maybe a regional thing but it's looking like almost irreversible decline around here!).

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Re: The UK Economy - Is it the 1970's again?
« Reply #308 on: February 15, 2024, 12:07:34 pm »
And yet people say they will hold their nose when voting Labour.

I dream of the days we can get back to square one. I hope Labour turn that little soundbite against Sunak and campaign on the country having a complete reset.

I think there's probably two or three generations of voting age that have never really struggled in terms of the cost of living, the safety net of benefits or not having public services available when needed that are now realising what it was like pre war and why the Labour movement was so strong until the 80s.


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Re: The UK Economy - Is it the 1970's again?
« Reply #309 on: February 16, 2024, 12:09:51 am »
I love the way that this is being referred to as a 'Technical' recession by the media, BBC went all in on that on their news page this morning.

A recession is a recession, I hope it destroys the fucking Tories
However if something serious happens to them I will eat my own cock.


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Re: The UK Economy - Is it the 1970's again?
« Reply #310 on: February 16, 2024, 12:11:56 am »
And yet people say they will hold their nose when voting Labour.

I dream of the days we can get back to square one. I hope Labour turn that little soundbite against Sunak and campaign on the country having a complete reset.
Square One would be awesome, unfortunately the Tories have done so much harm that Square One is I'm afraid a pipe dream
However if something serious happens to them I will eat my own cock.


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Re: The UK Economy - Is it the 1970's again?
« Reply #311 on: February 16, 2024, 10:52:07 am »
I love the way that this is being referred to as a 'Technical' recession by the media, BBC went all in on that on their news page this morning.

A recession is a recession, I hope it destroys the fucking Tories

Yeah I noticed that too... thought it sounded very strange how it was made very clear it was "technical".

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Re: The UK Economy - Is it the 1970's again?
« Reply #312 on: February 20, 2024, 03:44:54 pm »
That fucking bellend Andrew Bailey going on about how this recession is probably over and so we cant cut interest rates again. Him and the Bank of England are such a shite institution. If there was one thing I enjoyed about Brexit, its telling c*nts like these to fuck off.

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Re: The UK Economy - Is it the 1970's again?
« Reply #313 on: February 20, 2024, 03:57:53 pm »
That fucking bellend Andrew Bailey going on about how this recession is probably over and so we cant cut interest rates again. Him and the Bank of England are such a shite institution. If there was one thing I enjoyed about Brexit, its telling c*nts like these to fuck off.


Bailey is particularly twattish.

Mark Carney seemed a more decent guy.
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Re: The UK Economy - Is it the 1970's again?
« Reply #314 on: February 22, 2024, 11:05:58 am »
HSBC made £24bn profit last accounting year

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68355809

Can't afford to keep branches open, though...

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Re: The UK Economy - Is it the 1970's again?
« Reply #315 on: March 21, 2024, 03:00:55 pm »
BoE hold interest rate at 5.25%.  Apparently they're less optimistic than Hunt.

The vote was 8-1 so not even remotely close.

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Re: The UK Economy - Is it the 1970's again?
« Reply #316 on: March 22, 2024, 04:18:36 pm »
BoE hold interest rate at 5.25%.  Apparently they're less optimistic than Hunt.

The vote was 8-1 so not even remotely close.

That's what I thought , apparently last month, some were voting to raise it.
I'm more attuned to it than usual as my fixed rate finishes in June :(
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Re: The UK Economy - Is it the 1970's again?
« Reply #317 on: March 22, 2024, 04:49:53 pm »

Bailey is particularly twattish.

Mark Carney seemed a more decent guy.

Carney was very pro-Remain, but other then that he was completely pointless, he left rates way too low for too long constantly hinting he would raise rates and then never doing so leading to lot of the problems we’ve seen over the last 10 years with too much cheap money in the economy.
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Re: The UK Economy - Is it the 1970's again?
« Reply #318 on: March 25, 2024, 12:45:49 pm »
From the FT:

Britain found to offer worst-value housing of advanced economies


Britain found to offer worst-value housing of advanced economies
Britain’s housing offers the worst value for money of any advanced economy, combining high prices with old, cramped, poorly insulated buildings and long commutes, according to an influential think-tank.
The Resolution Foundation said high levels of outright home ownership obscured how bad the UK’s housing affordability was relative to other countries. Its analysis, published on Monday, showed that if all households — including owners and subsidised social renters — were renting their homes on the open market, they would have to devote 22 per cent of their spending to housing services.
Compared on this basis — by combining actual with “imputed” rents — housing consumed a larger share of spending in the UK than in any OECD country except Finland, the think-tank said.
Its findings will inflame an already heated debate over housing and planning in the run-up to the next general election, as both main parties seek to win over younger voters struggling with sky-high rents.
Rachel Reeves, shadow chancellor, last week promised to tear up a planning system she described as “the single greatest obstacle to our economic success” and reintroduce mandatory local housing targets.
Adam Corlett, principal economist at the Resolution Foundation, said the housing crisis had been “decades in the making”, with successive governments failing to build or modernise enough homes, adding: “That now has to change.”
UK households both paid more and got less for their money than in many countries with similar levels of income, the Resolution Foundation found.
In 2018, households in England had on average 38 square metres of floorspace per person — outstripped not only by their French and German counterparts, who had 43 sq metres and 46 sq metres on the latest count, but even by Japan, with 40 sq metres and residents of New York’s central city district, where the average was 43 sq metres.
Despite long-running concerns that the UK’s housing shortage is worsened by second-home owners leaving properties empty, Britain also has one of the lowest rates of second-home ownership in Europe and one of the lowest vacancy rates in the OECD, the Resolution Foundation found.
It citied a study showing 4 per cent of British households owned second homes for their own use, compared with 9 per cent in France, 17 per cent in Finland and 22 per cent in Spain.
Meanwhile, the UK’s housing stock is easily the oldest in the EU, with almost four in ten homes built before 1946, compared with three in ten in France, one in four in Germany and one in ten in Finland — with knock-on effects for energy efficiency.
It is also farther flung: 42 per cent of UK commuters travelled for more than an hour a day to reach their workplace in 2019 — well above the EU average of 37 per cent.
After adjusting for the general level of prices across each economy, people in the UK paid more for housing, relative to other goods and services, than in any other developed country — more even than in New Zealand and Australia, which have their own perennial housing crises.
“We often live in smaller, older and poorer-quality homes in the UK than households in many counterpart countries and pay a princely amount for that privilege,” the Foundation said, urging both main parties to “bring on the manifestos” to tackle the issue in the general election campaign.
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Re: The UK Economy - Is it the 1970's again?
« Reply #319 on: March 26, 2024, 06:28:42 pm »
So we have now got our bill for April for two 2-year olds in childcare which includes the new government support of 15 hours per child. We expected as a result our bill would go down a bit.

The actual result? My bill has gone up because to compensate for the government support, the nurseries put their costs up by 8% and started to charge for consumables such as food.

God, this country is fucking broken.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2024, 06:30:37 pm by killer-heels »