Topic: Tim Westwood accused of forced sex

[Jon2lfc]

Just saw this on BBC News. Massive image of him alongside a massive headline so they're certainly not holding back on this story:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-62126645

As well as being a current news story, it got me thinking.. as part of a wider debate, is it useful/necessary for someone who is accused of something to be put out in public?
Or should this only become public once the police have charge a person?
Or only when it goes to court?

If a person is innocent, then a lot of personal damage can happen until they are exonerated.
Is there any benefit for the public to know if someone is simply accused of something? Where are the boundaries?
You could accuse person X of the most heinous of crimes which may then produce so many unnecessary negatives before the person is actually found to be innocent.

p.s. I'm not a fan of Tim Westwood in any way. Even without this news story, I've always found him to come across as a sleazy, fake, wannabe gangster. With a silly way of speech.


Mods: pardon my ignorance - move to a more relevant board if needed.

[ianburns252]

If I remember there was a big deal over the Cliff Richard accusations about 6 years ago and how the papers were at his house in the morning around Christmas after he was wrongly accused of something.

There will be plenty of people who just remember that something went on - not the specifics or outcome - but will forever think of him as a nonce. I can't imagine he cares much but what if it was Dave from IT - he will have his life ruined by it.

A very tricky question but I tend to lean towards anonymity on things until at the least they are formally charged - the difficulty being that this may make people less likely to come forward as they will be unaware that something is going on.

[Jshooters]

You also have conflicting instances of anonymity such as this recent one:

A Premier League and international footballer has been arrested in north London on suspicion of rape.

The 29-year-old, who has not been named, was taken into custody on Monday morning where he remains, as reported by the Telegraph.

The Metropolitan Police told BBC Sport: "On 4 July, an allegation of rape of a woman in her 20s was reported to police.

"It was reported the alleged rape happened in June 2022."

The statement added: "On 4 July, a 29-year-old man was arrested at an address in Barnet on suspicion of rape and taken into custody where he remains.

"Enquiries into the circumstances are ongoing."

[Schmidt]

It's a tough one because making the story public has often led to more victims coming forward in the past, while also stopping public figures from completely avoiding any sort of repercussions due to power or legal technicalities.

On the other hand, there are a lot of people out there who will assume guilt from the first accusation and stick with that assumption regardless of anything that follows. Misandry is a growing problem.

[Nobby Reserve]

One of the things to become apparent in the case of Savile was that victims believed themselves to be alone, and it would be their word against his. Many of the ones who did go to the authorities were told to shut up (and in some instances actually punished and called evil), adding to the sense of isolation.

I know there's a fine line to be walked, and if there's only one allegation, then perhaps investigate it fully before naming. But very often when allegations against a 'famous' person are made public, several others come forward with their own stories of how they have been similarly assaulted. Because predatory behaviour of this type is usually not an isolated incident.

[Nobby Reserve]

On the other hand, there are a lot of people out there who will assume guilt from the first accusation and stick with that assumption regardless of anything that follows. Misandry is a growing problem.

It's a fair point. I still harbour a strong suspicion that there was something in those Cliff Richard allegations

[Schmidt]

It's a fair point. I still harbour a strong suspicion that there was something in those Cliff Richard allegations

It's not helped by the medias growing issues with the truth. I'm well aware that the more right-leaning organisations only care about agendas, but recent events have made me realise that supposed left-leaning organisations don't really care about the truth much either, just appealing to the right people.

[Red-Soldier]

He's definitely guilty of being an absolute weapon!

Not really surprised if he does turn out to be a wrongun too.

[reddebs]

People in high places, positions of power, the wealthy, the famous or celebrities believe they'll get away with these things.

Money shuts mouths and the establishment makes it easy for them.  The police, lawyers and the courts would rather "a deal" be done than "drag the victim" through reliving the trauma.

Every day sexual assault, abuse and rape is dealt with in a similar way but for different reasons rarely even gets to court.

It all fucking stinks that women still face this shit after years of so called equality.

Just like murder, there should be no paying off a victim or it being kept hush hush.

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

It's been rumoured for years and years that he's a wrong 'un so not surprised this is all coming out. And not even rumours really, but first-hand accounts of what he's been up to or tried to get up to. 

[Schmidt]

It's been rumoured for years and years that he's a wrong 'un so not surprised this is all coming out. And not even rumours really, but first-hand accounts of what he's been up to or tried to get up to. 

It's mad that this is still a thing with how quickly things get around on social media and how fast the pitchforks have been out in the past over lesser allegations.

[Red-Soldier]

It's mad that this is still a thing with how quickly things get around on social media and how fast the pitchforks have been out in the past over lesser allegations.

The BBC tried to sit on it.

[Jon2lfc]

The BBC tried to sit on it.

But they've 'investigated' themselves with this breaking story (in tandem with The Guardian).

I always find it weird when the BBC News reports critically on the BBC and BBC people.
It comes across as if they trying really hard to prove they are independent.
But how can that be - the clue is in the name, surely? The BBC and BBC News 

[So… Howard Philips]

The BBC tried to sit on it.

Cover up seems to be the first port of call for all public service scandals - BBC again, Police, various NHS trusts, West Mercia Police, Telford Council.

Just the latest batch. But lessons will be learned of course.

[Red-Soldier]

Cover up seems to be the first port of call for all public service scandals - BBC again, Police, various NHS trusts, West Mercia Police, Telford Council.

Just the latest batch. But lessons will be learned of course.

They always are 

[reddebs]

They always are 

They never are, which I know is what you're saying.

I'm in my 60s and it's been repeated failings all my life. 

Various safeguarders......... police, teachers, social services, gp's, hospitals failing to talk to each, failing to disclose, failing to cross reference and the same outcome.

An in depth consultation into policies, processes and procedures and then another incident happens.

Rinse and fucking repeat!

[didi shamone]

Apparently there's also been allegations that he's not black. I'm finding that hard to believe.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

With regards to naming people like Westwood,if they didn't then he'd still be in a position to carry on abusing & can you imagine the blowback if he abused a new victim whilst this was going through the courts ?

[Red-Soldier]

With regards to naming people like Westwood,if they didn't then he'd still be in a position to carry on abusing & can you imagine the blowback if he abused a new victim whilst this was going through the courts ?

Good choice of words.

[Jon2lfc]

Apparently there's also been allegations that he's not black. I'm finding that hard to believe.

That's a bit racist mate

[Nobby Reserve]

Cover up seems to be the first port of call for all public service scandals - BBC again, Police, various NHS trusts, West Mercia Police, Telford Council.

Just the latest batch. But lessons will be learned of course.

When news of this latest scandal broke, my reaction was 'not a-fucking-gain'

After Rochdale, Rotherham, Oxford, Oldham, Huddersfield and several others... another one. Perpetrated by the same demographic of people. Covered-up by authorities for the same reasons.

The far-right have made a lot of capital from this - and it being [wrongly, I stress] linked in with the whole 'woke lefties' agenda damages the wider work on equalities, and has contributed to a broader propagating of that 'anti-metropolitan elite' myth that has worked so well in bolstering both Brexit and Tory support.

[Stockholm Syndrome]

There was a documentary a few months ago going over the allegations against Westwood being widespread, it also touched upon some rap from London with people saying that shot about Westwood - a bit like Saville it appears in certain areas it had been an open secret for years

[AndyMuller]

Yeah this has been known for a while now. He djs at student nights in Bristol and says some wild, horrible shit to them when djing.

[Hedley Lamarr]

Yeah this has been known for a while now. He djs at student nights in Bristol and says some wild, horrible shit to them when djing.

One of my mates runs a bar in Clifton and had to throw him out because one girl came in from the garden crying.  He also ‘apparently’ did all sorts of shit after the Bristol festival, I actually seen him at said festival and he was booed from the minute he came on.

He certainly has a reputation here.

[Flaccido Dongingo]

I saw something about this months ago, along with testimonies from several girls accusing him, can't remember if it was an article or a news report or something on YouTube, he used to meet young women at club nights, invite them to London to do "media work", get them to somewhere else entirely then carry out the alleged offences, never really thought it at the time, but he is definitely a weirdo, a white middle class boy wholly appropriating black/urban culture and even speaking with all the associated mannerisms, I hope the c*nt gets sent down for life.

[Hedley Lamarr]

He is certainly a wrong 'un, but he's genuinely an important figure regarding 'black' music.  He was instrumental in Massive Attack getting radio airplay in the early 90s for example, but his reputation in Bristol within certain circles has been 'iffy' for twenty years.  He has a type 'allegedly'.

[Flaccido Dongingo]

He is certainly a wrong 'un, but he's genuinely an important figure regarding 'black' music.  He was instrumental in Massive Attack getting radio airplay in the early 90s for example, but his reputation in Bristol within certain circles has been 'iffy' for twenty years.  He has a type 'allegedly'.

Young black girls seem to have been his target.

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

He is certainly a wrong 'un, but he's genuinely an important figure regarding 'black' music. 

The power from which he's basically then *allegedly* used to carry out the acts. Harvey Weinstein-esque.

[Hedley Lamarr]

The power from which he's basically then *allegedly* used to carry out the acts. Harvey Weinstein-esque.

Basically, I actually blame a lot of the doormen, I've been in a place with him a few times and there were girls clearly too young to be in the place.  Even made up they looked fifteen.  DJs are one of the reasons I'm so strict with my daughter and she's nearly eighteen.

[Keita Success]

If I remember there was a big deal over the Cliff Richard accusations about 6 years ago and how the papers were at his house in the morning around Christmas after he was wrongly accused of something.

There will be plenty of people who just remember that something went on - not the specifics or outcome - but will forever think of him as a nonce. I can't imagine he cares much but what if it was Dave from IT - he will have his life ruined by it.

A very tricky question but I tend to lean towards anonymity on things until at the least they are formally charged - the difficulty being that this may make people less likely to come forward as they will be unaware that something is going on.

Wonderful nuanced reply.

Kind of reminds me of this: https://inews.co.uk/culture/television/christopher-jefferes-now-joanna-yeates-murder-what-happened-jason-watkins-lost-honour-itv-581069. Guilty by trial of public opinion.

[RainbowFlick]

if you went to Uni in/around London or major cities there were countless young Black girls that talked about seedy-to-worse behaviour from Tim - dating back 15+ years.

it's taken this many years for it to be taken seriously and even then some, mainly men, are demanding for evidence. the number of women with first hand experiences surely should be enough. BBC and co are complicit in glazing over it too.

it's been an open secret, just like R Kelly, for years and years.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

There was a documentary a few months ago going over the allegations against Westwood being widespread, it also touched upon some rap from London with people saying that shot about Westwood - a bit like Saville it appears in certain areas it had been an open secret for years

BBC3 had a new 2 parter that finished last night,turned it off after a short while,he's such a fucking wrong'un,he was picking up young 14yr olds at u18 early evening gigs.


I hope he gets raped daily and put into a coma every 3 or 4 months.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

He is certainly a wrong 'un, but he's genuinely an important figure regarding 'black' music.  He was instrumental in Massive Attack getting radio airplay in the early 90s for example

You sure about that ?

He was nothing but a bandwagon jumper after the fact.

[classycarra]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-62015958

Reading that, it's abundantly clear that Tim Davie needs sacking.

Shared all sorts of faux concern in April and appears to have lied about having no awareness of complaints. You can see from the November 2021 FOI response that the complaints were known about in some capacity.

Organisations that fall under FOI law don't say 'we neither confirm or deny' about something that doesn't exist. They simply write a couple of sentences saying there is no information meeting the criteria requested.

As Rainbow says, there's always been stories of him being a creep following him around. His dad was a bishop, by the way.

[ToneLa]

throw away the key

shoot him if he tries escape

black music survives

[didi shamone]

You sure about that ?

He was nothing but a bandwagon jumper after the fact.

One of the greatest bands of all time certainly didn't need that stooge, but I'm sure he took credit for their success. Like Saville his ridiculous persona is starting to make sense now.

[Stockholm Syndrome]

https://twitter.com/mikewhoatv/status/1518931672275865601?t=WxnFZJSOLpRV330MVmgyow&s=19

Here is a rap from well before the allegations came out in that documentary earlier this year - again signs that it was pretty well known (unfortunately the guy in the video is also an abuser of women, so he is awful, but still shows that people knew about Westwood)

Here is Ty talking about Westwood too in 2018 - "Westwood is our Jimmy Saville but no one has revealed it yet"

https://twitter.com/ESNpodcast/status/1255984939050336256?t=HOWhKph46X1HYi4RjSm53Q&s=19

[Red-Soldier]

https://twitter.com/mikewhoatv/status/1518931672275865601?t=WxnFZJSOLpRV330MVmgyow&s=19

Here is a rap from well before the allegations came out in that documentary earlier this year - again signs that it was pretty well known (unfortunately the guy in the video is also an abuser of women, so he is awful, but still shows that people knew about Westwood)

Here is Ty talking about Westwood too in 2018 - "Westwood is our Jimmy Saville but no one has revealed it yet"

https://twitter.com/ESNpodcast/status/1255984939050336256?t=HOWhKph46X1HYi4RjSm53Q&s=19

Was gonna post that I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out to be another Saville.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

One of the greatest bands of all time certainly didn't need that stooge, but I'm sure he took credit for their success. Like Saville his ridiculous persona is starting to make sense now.

Exactly,they had serious backing & John Peel fucking loved them.

[Hedley Lamarr]

You sure about that ?

He was nothing but a bandwagon jumper after the fact.

Very sure.  I'm currently reading a book about Massive and Bristol at the moment and 3D is actually quoted saying Westwood was important to their career early on.  I live about five minutes walk from Del Naja and used to go clubbing during the whole Wild Bunch thing, Westwood was always hanging around members of that group.  He ran a pirate station and used to play their early stuff before anyone else.