Topic: India - deteriorating?

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Comically out of touch, par for the course for the Indian "liberal" or communists hiding their colors complete with their hierarchy of oppression. The experience of anyone can be discredited because there is someone who has it worse.

When Reliance democratized internet to take it to the darkness in the villages of India and the arrival of Instagram and Tik-Tok threw Indians and the rest of the world together for the first time on a mass-scale what unfolded perhaps did more for the nationalist cause than anything else. The American mainstream public has always lacked humanity and respect but the vitriol directed towards Indians and the Sanātana Dharma is perhaps the only acceptable form of racism in the world. Indians are no longer under the yoke of Imperialism and they learned and learned fast how to talk back. Still a bit primitive but nevertheless they've always had fight in them, it just needs channeling.

The American Liberal has no use for the Sanātana Dharma because they cannot control it, it actively challenges their whole premise of right and wrong and the supremacy of the individual over the collective, the American conservative actively despises it because it is not Christian. Only the American establishment has made peace with it because they know the jungle is returning and they need us as we need them. The BBC is proved beyond doubt to be anti-Hindu

Only the most brainwashed or someone living in a bubble would think there is no Hinduphobia in the West or in the Islamic world

Are we supposed to feel bad? The Americans pioneered the use of extra-judicial killing in the name of national security and we are simply following their lead. Now, there is no mountain high enough, no ocean deep enough and no nation strong enough to stop us from reaching enemies of the state and traitors of the civilization. Another promise by Modi fullfilled

Now India has changed, now India won't be silent, this is a new India, we will break into their house and end them - Narendra Modi

Yeah we're all trembling, you right wing fruit loop.

[itihasas]

I think your overreaching a tad there if you think the Americans or anyone is living in fear of Sanātana Dharma, something I can assure you 99% of Americans have never heard of, never mind live in fear of.

I said they dislike it not that they live in fear of it. We don't have to strike fear in anyone except terrorists and we will do that no matter where they hide be it UK, Canada, USA or Pakistan.

* turns out -phobic is not the right word to use, apparently it does mean fear rather than dislike or hatred which is what I meant. English as a second language problems, my bad!

[west_london_red]

I said they dislike it not that they live in fear of it. We don't have to strike fear in anyone except terrorists and we will do that no matter where they hide be it UK, Canada, USA or Pakistan.

Other than when you get caught obviously and then deny all knowledge.

[itihasas]

Other than when you get caught obviously and then deny all knowledge.

Part and parcel of the game innit?

These capabilities of RAW are also in their infancy just like everything in India, from here on their sophistication can only get better.

[Bullet500]

* turns out -phobic is not the right word to use, apparently it does mean fear rather than dislike or hatred which is what I meant. English as a second language problems, my bad!

Yes, my Macaulayputra.

[itihasas]

Yes, my Macaulayputra.

Pipe down Dinesh D'Souza.

On second reading apparently Islamaphobia means the fear of, hatred of, or prejudice against the religion of Islam or Muslims in general but phobia only means the irrational, unrealistic, persistent and excessive fear of an object or situation. In this context, Hinduphobia is absolutely 100% accurate and spot on.

Not that this kind of nitpicking matters outside pretentious circles anyway, the average person knows exactly what we mean.

[Sangria]

I think your overreaching a tad there if you think the Americans or anyone is living in fear of Sanātana Dharma, something I can assure you 99% of Americans have never heard of, never mind live in fear of.

"Sanātana Dharma" apparently means "an eternal set of truths", and traces back to the most ancient of the world's scriptures (according to Google). Is this supposed to mean anything? Other than our code being transmitted by DNA, is there any other truth that's eternal?

And as for looking at the US or the west in general as the enemy of India who look down on India. There are other, non-western, nations too, who think they are the world and who look down on India. One of them borders India, and is regularly in conflict with India. They're also far more racist than the west. Goodness knows why Indian nationalists still look at the west as the principal enemy, and accuse the west of all sorts. Probably because this other nation doesn't give a toss what Indians accuse them of, and would actually take these accusations as a badge of honour.

[Bullet500]

Pipe down Dinesh D'Souza.

On second reading apparently Islamaphobia means the fear of, hatred of, or prejudice against the religion of Islam or Muslims in general but phobia only means the irrational, unrealistic, persistent and excessive fear of an object or situation. In this context, Hinduphobia is absolutely 100% accurate and spot on.

Not that this kind of nitpicking matters outside pretentious circles anyway, the average person knows exactly what we mean.

If I were to believe nonsense, India is Hinduphobic too.

[west_london_red]

Pipe down Dinesh D'Souza.

On second reading apparently Islamaphobia means the fear of, hatred of, or prejudice against the religion of Islam or Muslims in general but phobia only means the irrational, unrealistic, persistent and excessive fear of an object or situation. In this context, Hinduphobia is absolutely 100% accurate and spot on.

Not that this kind of nitpicking matters outside pretentious circles anyway, the average person knows exactly what we mean.

I don’t think anyone is debating what to call Hinduphobia, I think the point is that it doesn’t exist to any meaningful degree in Western countries, and I’m specifically talking about the religion rather then a phobia of people who are Indian, darker skin etc which certainly exists but is based on ethnicity rather than religion.

[west_london_red]

"Sanātana Dharma" apparently means "an eternal set of truths", and traces back to the most ancient of the world's scriptures (according to Google). Is this supposed to mean anything? Other than our code being transmitted by DNA, is there any other truth that's eternal?

And as for looking at the US or the west in general as the enemy of India who look down on India. There are other, non-western, nations too, who think they are the world and who look down on India. One of them borders India, and is regularly in conflict with India. They're also far more racist than the west. Goodness knows why Indian nationalists still look at the west as the principal enemy, and accuse the west of all sorts. Probably because this other nation doesn't give a toss what Indians accuse them of, and would actually take these accusations as a badge of honour.

It’s the usual right wing gibberish, everyone is out to get us mentality, a sort of siege mentality.

[Bullet500]

"Sanātana Dharma" apparently means "an eternal set of truths", and traces back to the most ancient of the world's scriptures (according to Google). Is this supposed to mean anything? Other than our code being transmitted by DNA, is there any other truth that's eternal?

Think of it as a fancy term for Hinduism.

And as for looking at the US or the west in general as the enemy of India who look down on India. There are other, non-western, nations too, who think they are the world and who look down on India. One of them borders India, and is regularly in conflict with India. They're also far more racist than the west. Goodness knows why Indian nationalists still look at the west as the principal enemy, and accuse the west of all sorts. Probably because this other nation doesn't give a toss what Indians accuse them of, and would actually take these accusations as a badge of honour.

This problem is more prominent in Hindu nationalists than Indian ones. Hindu nationalists think anyone who is not a Hindu is an enemy and it does not have to be the west. Their own countrymen who are non-Hindus are also perceived as enemies.

Generally, other Indian parties (the ones that are not Hindu supremacist) engage in anti-west rhetoric when they want to mobilise people against foreign-direct investment that could threaten local industry / jobs.

[Yorkykopite]

It’s the usual right wing gibberish, everyone is out to get us mentality, a sort of siege mentality.

I'm not picking up the class nuances of our new friend Iti, but I'm very much getting the right-wing populist vibe. Would you say he is more Tommy Robinson than Farrage, or the other way round?

What a great word 'Macaulayputra' is by the way. I must start using it. Can it be a compliment, or must it always be insulting?

[west_london_red]

I'm not picking up the class nuances of our new friend Iti, but I'm very much getting the right-wing populist vibe. Would you say he is more Tommy Robinson than Farrage, or the other way round?

What a great word 'Macaulayputra' is by the way. I must start using it. Can it be a compliment, or must it always be insulting?

That’s a tough one, I’d say more Farrage than Robinson due to the level of English being used.

It’s not something that I have heard too many times before (probably because I don’t come from an educated family so it wouldn’t really apply as either an insult or compliment) but I think it’s generally an insult more then a compliment, especially these days when everything is a bit more rabid then it used to be. Think of it in the way a Republican or Tory uses the word ‘liberal’ as an insult.

[Bullet500]

I'm not picking up the class nuances of our new friend Iti, but I'm very much getting the right-wing populist vibe. Would you say he is more Tommy Robinson than Farrage, or the other way round?

What a great word 'Macaulayputra' is by the way. I must start using it. Can it be a compliment, or must it always be insulting?

The best way to think of Iti is as a Hindu version of Anjem Choudary.

Regarding 'Macaulayputra', it's supposed to be an insult for liberal folks. Most liberal folks take it as a compliment or do not care, however. But I prefer to use it for right wing folks because they definitely treat it as an insult.

[Yorkykopite]

All interesting, thank you.

[itihasas]

And as for looking at the US or the west in general as the enemy of India who look down on India. There are other, non-western, nations too, who think they are the world and who look down on India. One of them borders India, and is regularly in conflict with India. They're also far more racist than the west. Goodness knows why Indian nationalists still look at the west as the principal enemy, and accuse the west of all sorts. Probably because this other nation doesn't give a toss what Indians accuse them of, and would actually take these accusations as a badge of honour.

How did you get that we look at the West as the enemy?

There are two components here (well many more) but for simplicity let's use two: The American establishment and the American people - the engines behind the West.

The American establishment is turning out to be our friend now, they are willing to help us build up our capabilities because as I said earlier the jungle is returning and we need them and they need us. We would be fools not to grasp this opportunity with both hands, this can help us turbo-charge everything we want to do.

It is time to overcome the hesitations of history - Modi

The conflict with the West is mainly soft-they think their culture is universal and everyone should be like them. Their manner of lecturing is grating and ridiculous. There is no risk of it escalating into a hard conflict outside of one particular scenario which won't happen till at least 75 years anyway.

The American people actively hate us or are indifferent to us. We don't have to do anything because the onrushing waves of history will humble them, American hegemony and American culture is on it's last legs . They have made a lot of enemies in the world.

With all due respect, I think you have a poor grasp of India if you think we are ignoring our bordering nations. We know all about the Pakistanis and Chinese, don't worry. We know they are enemy #1 and #2 and we know how exactly how the Pakistani establishment has brainwashed Pakistan into hating India. Only after phase 1 is complete can we decisively shift the security equation in this region towards equilibrium.

We've already shed the old Congress pacifism and signalled to Pakistan there are 10,000 ways to skin a cat and they can't hide behind their nuclear umbrella forever:
https://thediplomat.com/2023/11/leaked-pakistani-documents-point-to-indian-assassination-program/

[Bullet500]

The communists we hate outright because we know how devious they can be.

Nobody can be Dinesh D'Souza and a communist at the same time, bro. 

[west_london_red]

Yes, India has never had a problem with Islam domestically and internationally or with the West. It's all in our heads, talk about gas-lighting.

No Hinduphobia is a really strong stance my guy, this is the tip of the iceberg:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/apr/17/alabama-yoga-ban-public-schools-christian-groups
Indeed they do, and then they whimsically wonder where their support has gone and why their country has changed.

First of all, try and read what people are talking about. The post you are quoting is specifically referring to Western Hinduphobia, there was no mention of Islam in my post or the post I was responding to yet you saw it fit to shoehorn it into your response.

On your example of Hinduphobia, I’d ask you this question. If Yoga was associated with say Islam or Buddhism or Sikhism or any other religion (other than Christianity) that it would be treated any differently in Alabama? The  American right wing nut jobs don’t like anything that isn’t deemed Christian, that isn’t specifically aimed against Hindus, it’s against everyone else.

[Jiminy Cricket]

The American people actively hate us or are indifferent to us.

Are you sure it is not just you!?

I've lived in the US; India, and perhaps especially Hindus, are on no one's radar.* Yes, Americans are largely indifferent to India and Hindus, just as they are indifferent about most of the world. The same attitude probably applies to all countries (and their citizenry) and their attitude to most other nations.

* Excepting, as has already been explained to you, where they are misidentified as Muslims or as 'foreign' by racists.

[Bullet500]

Many Hindus are very good at identifying what kind of Hindu one is (caste) whether in India or abroad.

"The west is good at identifying Hindus" is just projection.

[Sangria]

With all due respect, I think you have a poor grasp of India if you think we are ignoring our bordering nations. We know all about the Pakistanis and Chinese, don't worry. We know they are enemy #1 and #2 and we know how exactly how the Pakistani establishment has brainwashed Pakistan into hating India. Only after phase 1 is complete can we decisively shift the security equation in this region towards equilibrium.

We've already shed the old Congress pacifism and signalled to Pakistan there are 10,000 ways to skin a cat and they can't hide behind their nuclear umbrella forever:
https://thediplomat.com/2023/11/leaked-pakistani-documents-point-to-indian-assassination-program/

I was talking about China. Now there's a country that isn't remotely impressed by India's claims to history or culture, and which looks at Indians of all kinds as barbarians. You think Americans are racist towards Indians? You don't want to know what Chinese think of Indians. Try accusing Chinese of racism towards Indians, and they'll tell you their attitudes are entirely merited. You won't find sympathetic liberals sighing in agreement with you, as you do in the soft west.

[Bullet500]

I was talking about China. Now there's a country that isn't remotely impressed by India's claims to history or culture, and which looks at Indians of all kinds as barbarians. You think Americans are racist towards Indians? You don't want to know what Chinese think of Indians. Try accusing Chinese of racism towards Indians, and they'll tell you their attitudes are entirely merited. You won't find sympathetic liberals sighing in agreement with you, as you do in the soft west.

History and Culture: Buddhist impact on Chinese culture was immense and it's something the Chinese happily acknowledge. Read about Xuanzang.
Current Status: Yes, you are correct here. India is suffering from profound malaise and the Chinese do tend to look at Indians as all kinds of barbarians.

[Sangria]

History and Culture: Buddhist impact on Chinese culture was immense and it's something the Chinese happily acknowledge. Read about Xuanzang.
Current Status: Yes, you are correct here. India is suffering from profound malaise and the Chinese do tend to look at Indians as all kinds of barbarians.

Yeah, they're acknowledging of Buddhism. And simultaneously they think of Indians as barbarians. As they think of all non-Chinese.

What Hindu-centrics should recognise, beyond the easy kicking of western imperialist history with the help of western liberal bleeding hearts, is that there are other countries that are equally nationalistic, who don't see the world from a Hindu-centric view. And they'll laugh at you while you continue aiming at the west, while they look to exploit you without any qualms whatsoever. Unlike when they accuse the west of imperialism, they won't find any bleeding heart liberals taking their side.

[ScouserAtHeart]

well that election was competitive for all of 5 mins

[west_london_red]

well that election was competitive for all of 5 mins

Was it ever in doubt? The BJP has bent government agencies and the media to its will, opposition parties have leaders arrested and accounts frozen, electoral commission neutered, the outcome was set before the first vote was even cast.

[ScouserAtHeart]

2014

Exit Poll agency   NDA   UPA
India Today-Cicero   272   115
News 24-Chanakya   340   101
Actual Result          336   60

2019

Exit Poll Agency   NDA            UPA
India Today-Axis   339-365   77-108
News 24-Chanakya   350           95
Actual Result           353           93

2024

Exit Polls Agency                      NDA            INDIA    
India Today-Axis My India    361-401        131-166
News 24-Today's Chanakya   400              107

[Garrus]

Only in India can you have the opposition get smashed for 3 consecutive elections and still not change leadership.

[ChaChaMooMoo]

Was it ever in doubt? The BJP has bent government agencies and the media to its will, opposition parties have leaders arrested and accounts frozen, electoral commission neutered, the outcome was set before the first vote was even cast.

To be fair, the opposition also didnt do any better. If they knew that BJP were targetting them, and they were, they shouldve been doubly careful in what they did. Congress ignored the summon notice for their IT case. Kejriwal and the slapgate.

The opposition is a lame duck. BJP didnt make them to be a lame duck. They have RaGa as their front face for crying out loud. The dood doesnt want to be a leader. He wants to be a businessman. Instead of projecting a face that could challenge BJP, they forcibly made him the poster child for their shortcomings. As Garrus rightly said .....

Only in India can you have the opposition get smashed for 3 consecutive elections and still not change leadership.

[ScouserAtHeart]

Just someone like Sachin Pilot in charge and give him a free hand in the upcoming state elections.

You literally have nothing to lose by trying something different

[west_london_red]

Only in India can you have the opposition get smashed for 3 consecutive elections and still not change leadership.

This certainly doesn’t help, and your right, I can’t think of any other country/party where the same leader gets smashed 3 times and carries on as leader, if he was closing the gap on them you could argue it would be worth sticking with him but no inroads have been made at all.

[ChaChaMooMoo]

Exit polls predict anywhere from 340-380 for NDA. Thats a complete annihilation even better than 2019 and people said 2019 was an exception.

I mean.. If RaGa had any shame or awareness of the clusterfuck the Congress are in currently, he would walk away.

[ScouserAtHeart]

Exit polls predict anywhere from 340-380 for NDA. Thats a complete annihilation even better than 2019 and people said 2019 was an exception.

I mean.. If RaGa had any shame or awareness of the clusterfuck the Congress are in currently, he would walk away.

People also said 2014 was an exception

[kloppismydad]

Just someone like Sachin Pilot in charge and give him a free hand in the upcoming state elections.

You literally have nothing to lose by trying something different

Won't happen. Priyanka Gandhi and Kharge will continue to prop up Rahul Gandhi.

[ChaChaMooMoo]

People also said 2014 was an exception

2014 IIRC many said BJP would win. I am not sure people called it an exception. I could be wrong though.

Simply because all RaGa did was repeat 4 phrases again and again and again and did nothing to "showcase" what they had in mind. I think that "Times Now" interview was his final nail on the coffin. There was no recovery from that.

Meanwhile, BJP did their homework in ensuring that the image they projected was clean and progressive and something that India needed at that point in time.

[ScouserAtHeart]

2014 IIRC many said BJP would win. I am not sure people called it an exception. I could be wrong though.

Simply because all RaGa did was repeat 4 phrases again and again and again and did nothing to "showcase" what they had in mind. I think that "Times Now" interview was his final nail on the coffin. There was no recovery from that.

Meanwhile, BJP did their homework in ensuring that the image they projected was clean and progressive and something that India needed at that point in time.

No they were favorites no doubt, more that people were saying it was a one-off and they'd be out of power in 2019 again.

Which probably would've been a safe assumption if this was a Vajpayee/Advani party. It isn't.

[Bullet500]

Was it ever in doubt? The BJP has bent government agencies and the media to its will, opposition parties have leaders arrested and accounts frozen, electoral commission neutered, the outcome was set before the first vote was even cast.

It was never in doubt.

I did my duty and voted, however.

[Bullet500]

2014 IIRC many said BJP would win. I am not sure people called it an exception. I could be wrong though.

Simply because all RaGa did was repeat 4 phrases again and again and again and did nothing to "showcase" what they had in mind. I think that "Times Now" interview was his final nail on the coffin. There was no recovery from that.

Meanwhile, BJP did their homework in ensuring that the image they projected was clean and progressive and something that India needed at that point in time.

2014 was also never in doubt. Expected a landslide for BJP and it was. Also, if Arnab dares to interview Modi the way he interviewed RaGa (or Modi agrees to be interviewed), Modi would be out.

[Bullet500]

2014

Exit Poll agency   NDA   UPA
India Today-Cicero   272   115
News 24-Chanakya   340   101
Actual Result          336   60

2019

Exit Poll Agency   NDA            UPA
India Today-Axis   339-365   77-108
News 24-Chanakya   350           95
Actual Result           353           93

2024

Exit Polls Agency                      NDA            INDIA    
India Today-Axis My India    361-401        131-166
News 24-Today's Chanakya   400              107

Exit polls were garbage.

Looks like 270+ for NDA and 210+ for UPA (INDIA) in early trends.

[BarryCrocker]

John Oliver from Last Week Tonight.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/john-oliver-last-week-tonight-041228340.html

Video will pop on these two sites later this week 06/06/2024

https://www.howtoeatmangoes.com/

https://www.oppositesnakes.com/

[Garrus]

Unbelievable results so far.