Author Topic: India - deteriorating?  (Read 35002 times)

Offline masher

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #480 on: September 19, 2023, 04:34:49 pm »
And you know what the stupidest part of it all is, if there was a referendum on the creation of Khalistan, the Khalistanis would lose it. If the Indian government really wanted to resolve this once and for all it should hold the referendum itself, it would win comfortably and that would be the end of the issue but it serves their purpose to keep things ticking over and keep the bogeyman in their back pocket to wheel out every once in a while.

There is no provision in the Indian constitution for holding a referendum. And they did not wheel out the boogeyman - what started this was referendums done and advertised on social media by Khalistani groups in Melbourne and Kanada. In the past these things didnít get any attention but in the age of social media this nuisance gets amplified and makes it into main stream news. It also encourages the Khalistanis to create more provocative scenes like attacking the Indian consulates as they get more attention.

As I say if these people want Khalistan they are more than welcome to carve up a piece of Kanada for the fanatics. They will have our blessings.

Offline Max_powers

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #481 on: September 19, 2023, 04:48:12 pm »
There is no provision in the Indian constitution for holding a referendum. And they did not wheel out the boogeyman - what started this was referendums done and advertised on social media by Khalistani groups in Melbourne and Kanada. In the past these things didnít get any attention but in the age of social media this nuisance gets amplified and makes it into main stream news. It also encourages the Khalistanis to create more provocative scenes like attacking the Indian consulates as they get more attention.

As I say if these people want Khalistan they are more than welcome to carve up a piece of Kanada for the fanatics. They will have our blessings.

The Khalistan movement was dead in the water for a few decades with only a few old true believers. What really stoked this fire was the farm laws and ethno-nationalistic ideology of the current Indian government. Killing a few people abroad will only likely make the situation more violent and further stoke the persecution complex.

I personally think Khalistan is a dumb idea but the way Indian Government acts sometimes really helps make this a bigger issue. Killing one person doesn't do much, the publicity of this incident will probably push more people into this ideology.

If the Indian government is serious about dealing with this situation they should make laws and apply them consistently. IE If supporting Kahlistan voilently is illegal, so should suppoorting things like "Hindu Rashtra"(Hindu state) be.

If the Indian government wants to lock all these dickheads up I am all for it. But I don't think they will, instead, they will continue to take these extra-judicial steps that will further push more people into this ideology.

 
« Last Edit: September 19, 2023, 04:49:48 pm by Max_powers »

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #482 on: September 19, 2023, 04:53:34 pm »
There is no provision in the Indian constitution for holding a referendum. And they did not wheel out the boogeyman - what started this was referendums done and advertised on social media by Khalistani groups in Melbourne and Kanada. In the past these things didnít get any attention but in the age of social media this nuisance gets amplified and makes it into main stream news. It also encourages the Khalistanis to create more provocative scenes like attacking the Indian consulates as they get more attention.

As I say if these people want Khalistan they are more than welcome to carve up a piece of Kanada for the fanatics. They will have our blessings.

Constitutions can be changed, it was changed recently regarding Kashmirs special status if I remember correctly?

As for the bogeyman, you seem to be worried about a different bogeyman to me. Iím talking about violent Khalistanism, the type we saw in the 80ís you seem to be referring to the mere mention of Khalistan through non-violent means which is an all together different thing.

And I take it you feel just the same about Hindu fanatics too when they call for India to become a ĎHindu nationí?
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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #483 on: September 19, 2023, 04:55:31 pm »
The Khalistan movement was dead in the water for a few decades with only a few old true believers. What really stoked this fire was the farm laws and ethno-nationalistic ideology of the current Indian government. Killing a few people abroad will only likely make the situation more violent and further stoke the persecution complex.

I personally think Khalistan is a dumb idea but the way Indian Government acts sometimes really helps make this a bigger issue. Killing one person doesn't do much, the publicity of this incident will probably push more people into this ideology.

If the Indian government is serious about dealing with this situation they should make laws and apply them consistently. IE If supporting Kahlistan voilently is illegal, so should suppoorting things like "Hindu Rashtra"(Hindu state) be.

If the Indian government wants to lock all these dickheads up I am all for it. But I don't think they will, instead, they will continue to take these extra-judicial steps that will further push more people into this ideology.

 

Spot on.
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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #484 on: September 19, 2023, 04:57:27 pm »
There is no provision in the Indian constitution for holding a referendum. And they did not wheel out the boogeyman - what started this was referendums done and advertised on social media by Khalistani groups in Melbourne and Kanada. In the past these things didnít get any attention but in the age of social media this nuisance gets amplified and makes it into main stream news. It also encourages the Khalistanis to create more provocative scenes like attacking the Indian consulates as they get more attention.

As I say if these people want Khalistan they are more than welcome to carve up a piece of Kanada for the fanatics. They will have our blessings.


You come across as a big supporter of Hindu-fascism.
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Offline masher

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #485 on: September 19, 2023, 05:03:16 pm »
You are assuming that Indian agencies are responsible for these killings. There is no evidence for it.

The reinvigoration of Khalistani movement isnít a spontaneous reaction to Farm laws or some motor mouths in India calling for Hindu Rashtra on social media. It has tactical and financial support from our neighbors in the west. Here is the link to a paper from the Hudson institute.

https://www.hudson.org/foreign-policy/pakistan-s-destabilization-playbook-khalistan-separatist-activism-within-the-us

I am all for locking up any dickhead that resorts to violence and we already have laws against it, donít see the need new laws.

As for the farm laws, itís a separate topic but it is sad that the laws had to be withdrawn. The farm sector is rotten and much needed reform in the sector on the lines of what was proposed under new laws is much needed.

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #486 on: September 19, 2023, 05:04:21 pm »
And I take it you feel just the same about Hindu fanatics too when they call for India to become a ĎHindu nationí?

Yes I do.

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #487 on: September 19, 2023, 05:07:37 pm »

You come across as a big supporter of Hindu-fascism.

And you come across as an idiot. Just because i have a different view point I must be a fascist.

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #488 on: September 19, 2023, 05:08:47 pm »
And you come across as an idiot. Just because i have a different view point I must be a fascist.


At best you're an apologist for the Hindu-fascist regime there.

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Offline Max_powers

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #489 on: September 19, 2023, 05:09:47 pm »


Yeah but has Pakistan increased its funding exponentially for these groups since 2021? They themselves are having a pretty tough economic time. Something else has changed in that time.

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #490 on: September 19, 2023, 05:11:02 pm »

At best you're an apologist for the Hindu-fascist regime there.



Ok.

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #491 on: September 19, 2023, 05:18:30 pm »
Yeah but has Pakistan increased its funding exponentially for these groups since 2021? They themselves are having a pretty tough economic time. Something else has changed in that time.


I donít know the answer to that, it is anyoneís guess. But cultivating these groups and propping them up doesnít happen overnight.

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #492 on: September 19, 2023, 05:22:04 pm »
You are assuming that Indian agencies are responsible for these killings. There is no evidence for it.

The reinvigoration of Khalistani movement isnít a spontaneous reaction to Farm laws or some motor mouths in India calling for Hindu Rashtra on social media. It has tactical and financial support from our neighbors in the west. Here is the link to a paper from the Hudson institute.

https://www.hudson.org/foreign-policy/pakistan-s-destabilization-playbook-khalistan-separatist-activism-within-the-us

I am all for locking up any dickhead that resorts to violence and we already have laws against it, donít see the need new laws.

As for the farm laws, itís a separate topic but it is sad that the laws had to be withdrawn. The farm sector is rotten and much needed reform in the sector on the lines of what was proposed under new laws is much needed.

Ah yes, was waiting for the Pakistan card to be played.

The article is absolutely rubbish. No evidence or anything other than Khalistanis and Kashmiris both protest outside the Indian Embassy together.
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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #493 on: September 19, 2023, 05:34:59 pm »
I donít know the answer to that, it is anyoneís guess. But cultivating these groups and propping them up doesnít happen overnight.

Can I ask a more simple question first? Who exactly are these groups your referring to?
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Offline Max_powers

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #494 on: September 19, 2023, 05:36:08 pm »
I donít know the answer to that, it is anyoneís guess. But cultivating these groups and propping them up doesnít happen overnight.

Sure but why was this movement relatively quiet for a few decades before 2021 and why has it suddenly back in the zeitgeist?

Sure Pakistan may be funding it, but most people who hold these beliefs don't do so because of the funding these groups have.

They look at things like Farmers' protests as the government unilaterally forcing laws on them without any consultation or debate. They see the government cozying up with Hindu Nationalists and thinking if they want to turn India into a Hindu Nation then there should also be a Sikh Nation. These type of rationale is why it has gained traction.

They may see this killing of an accused Terrorist and say why is it that Government is okay killing this guy but when you look at a Terrorist like Sadhvi Pragya Thakur who is also accused terrorist in a bombing, she is made a Member of Parliament for this goverment.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2023, 05:38:41 pm by Max_powers »

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #495 on: September 19, 2023, 05:50:04 pm »

They look at things like Farmers' protests as the government unilaterally forcing laws on them without any consultation or debate. They see the government cozying up with Hindu Nationalists and thinking if they want to turn India into a Hindu Nation then there should also be a Sikh Nation. These type of rationale is why it has gained traction.


Based on my own anecdotal experiences within my family, everyone supported the Farmers protests as did pretty much all Sikhs but religion/Khalistan very rarely came up in those conversations despite the Indian Government trying to tar all protesting Sikh farmers as Khalistanis, as a community we didnít bite.

The whole India as a Hindu Nation issue is a much bigger issue because it drives two very destructive emotions, fear and correctly perceived double standards as to how people are treated when they call for a Hindu nation or a Sikh nation.
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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #496 on: September 19, 2023, 05:50:14 pm »
Can I ask a more simple question first? Who exactly are these groups your referring to?

Sikhs for Justice, international Youth Sikh Federation, Khalistan Zindabad Force, Khalistan Commando force and others like. They are all involved in funding and terrorist activities under the grab of being an NGOs or a human rights group.

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #497 on: September 19, 2023, 05:58:27 pm »
Based on my own anecdotal experiences within my family, everyone supported the Farmers protests as did pretty much all Sikhs but religion/Khalistan very rarely came up in those conversations despite the Indian Government trying to tar all protesting Sikh farmers as Khalistanis, as a community we didnít bite.

The whole India as a Hindu Nation issue is a much bigger issue because it drives two very destructive emotions, fear and correctly perceived double standards as to how people are treated when they call for a Hindu nation or a Sikh nation.

This is true. I would say the vast majority of Punjabi people supported Farmer's protests and the vast majority of that group don't support Khalistan at all.

And still, Khalistanis are a very tiny minority group of Punjabis in India or abroad. But the messaging from some Khalistani groups used this big event to push their agenda. I have heard some people (mostly youth) have more sympathy towards this movement after 2021.

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #498 on: September 19, 2023, 05:58:33 pm »
Sikhs for Justice, international Youth Sikh Federation, Khalistan Zindabad Force, Khalistan Commando force and others like. They are all involved in funding and terrorist activities under the grab of being an NGOs or a human rights group.



When did one of these groups last carry out a terrorist act?
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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #499 on: September 19, 2023, 06:07:52 pm »
They look at things like Farmers' protests as the government unilaterally forcing laws on them without any consultation or debate. They see the government cozying up with Hindu Nationalists and thinking if they want to turn India into a Hindu Nation then there should also be a Sikh Nation. These type of rationale is why it has gained traction.

They may see this killing of an accused Terrorist and say why is it that Government is okay killing this guy but when you look at a Terrorist like Sadhvi Pragya Thakur who is also accused terrorist in a bombing, she is made a Member of Parliament for this goverment.

I will ignore the larger debate on farm bills and if the elected government is within its right to table bills in parliament to be discussed, debated and passed. Fourteen rounds of discussion were held with farmer associations and I believe the bill would have benefited the large majority of farmers in India.

Your argument would have merit if the Khalistani movement was emerging in India where more Sikhs live and if Sikhs in India were feeling disenfranchised or insecure. But that is simply not the case, itís Canadian or British or American citizens, maybe some with Indian passport living in these countries that are most vocal and are demanding for a separate Khalistan.

Sikhs in India have above average income, they have political offices even outside of Punjab and have privileged positions in government, bureaucracy, corporate and media - all spheres of life.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2023, 06:20:47 pm by masher »

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #500 on: September 19, 2023, 06:19:08 pm »

When did one of these groups last carry out a terrorist act?

From the Hudson article I shared earlier, they tried to negotiate purchase of guns and shoulder fired missiles in 2019. I am sure you are going to agree that we should not wait for actual innocent casualties before we act against such organizations.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/media.hudson.org/Pande_Pakistan's+Destabilization+Playbook+-+Khalistan+Separatist+Activism+Within+the+US.pdf

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #501 on: September 19, 2023, 06:33:47 pm »
I will ignore the larger debate on farm bills and if the elected government is within its right to table bills in parliament to be discussed, debated and passed. Fourteen rounds of discussion were held with farmer associations and I believe the bill would have benefited the large majority of farmers in India.

Your argument would have merit if the Khalistani movement was emerging in India where more Sikhs live and if Sikhs in India were feeling disenfranchised or insecure. But that is simply not the case, itís Canadian or British or American citizens, maybe some with Indian passport living in these countries that are most vocal and are demanding for a separate Khalistan.

Sikhs in India have above average income, they have political offices even outside of Punjab and have privileged positions in government, bureaucracy, corporate and media - all spheres of life.

This is somewhat untrue. While yes generally the support for Khalistan is higher abroad, even within Punjab there has been a rise in support for it. Have you heard of Amritpal Singh? Guess where most of his support is from.

Punjab has very high youth unemployment. Many young people do feel disenfranchised. While it's hard to blame this central government for this. But not much has been done to improve the situation.  Many of these type of youth have sympathies for characters like Amritpal.


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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #502 on: September 19, 2023, 06:43:07 pm »
This is somewhat untrue. While yes generally the support for Khalistan is higher abroad, even within Punjab there has been a rise in support for it. Have you heard of Amritpal Singh? Guess where most of his support is from.

Punjab has very high youth unemployment. Many young people do feel disenfranchised. While it's hard to blame this central government for this. But not much has been done to improve the situation.  Many of these type of youth have sympathies for characters like Amritpal.



And since Amrit Pal was arrested that support has fizzled out, there wasnít even a single protest against his arrest. Yes unemployment in Punjab is a problem and must be addressed because it is a rich breeding ground for radicalism.

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #503 on: September 19, 2023, 06:43:56 pm »
From the Hudson article I shared earlier, they tried to negotiate purchase of guns and shoulder fired missiles in 2019. I am sure you are going to agree that we should not wait for actual innocent casualties before we act against such organizations.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/media.hudson.org/Pande_Pakistan's+Destabilization+Playbook+-+Khalistan+Separatist+Activism+Within+the+US.pdf


Your gonna have to help me out a bit as the only reference I can find to rocket launchers alludes to the 90ís but isnít very clear.

And if Pakistan really is funding these groups, if I was them Iíd ask for a refund because what they are trying to achieve isnít working.
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Offline Max_powers

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #504 on: September 19, 2023, 06:53:28 pm »
And since Amrit Pal was arrested that support has fizzled out, there wasnít even a single protest against his arrest. Yes unemployment in Punjab is a problem and must be addressed because it is a rich breeding ground for radicalism.

Yeah unemployment and drug problem has been left unchecked for quite some time.

But you still haven't explained why these laws are applied in a discriminatory way. You say that Sikhs are not discriminated against. It's mostly true in general society.

But why is it that Sikh Nationalism is a crime and Hindu Nationalism is not? Why is it that the government is killing people without trial abroad but has its own party workers threatening violence in political rallies? Why isn't killing off them?

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #505 on: September 19, 2023, 09:08:58 pm »
But why is it that Sikh Nationalism is a crime and Hindu Nationalism is not? Why is it that the government is killing people without trial abroad but has its own party workers threatening violence in political rallies? Why isn't killing off them?

I cant speak for him but I think the first one is got to do with "separation out of a chunk of Indian land" vs "uniting Indian land under a single umbrella". Or atleast thats the difference between Khalistan and Hindu Nation.

As for the point about Indian govt killing people without trial abroad, I dont think thats the case. Atleast not with proofs. Indian govt isnt killing dissidents like Russia or China or Saudi Arabia. If Trudeau or Sunak can come ahead with any proof, that would go a long way in dispelling any such rumours that the govt isnt involved. But until then, it remains a strong speculation.

As for the party workers threatening violence in political rallies, there are some bad apples that bring about a bad name to India worldwide but I dont think thats the general party guideline. Sure they could do better to control such behaviour (and should!) but I would assume, in the interest of wanting to solve bigger issues at hand, such incidents are overlooked. But I agree, they should do more to reduce such violent behaviour.

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #506 on: September 19, 2023, 09:41:55 pm »
I cant speak for him but I think the first one is got to do with "separation out of a chunk of Indian land" vs "uniting Indian land under a single umbrella". Or atleast thats the difference between Khalistan and Hindu Nation.

As for the point about Indian govt killing people without trial abroad, I dont think thats the case. Atleast not with proofs. Indian govt isnt killing dissidents like Russia or China or Saudi Arabia. If Trudeau or Sunak can come ahead with any proof, that would go a long way in dispelling any such rumours that the govt isnt involved. But until then, it remains a strong speculation.

As for the party workers threatening violence in political rallies, there are some bad apples that bring about a bad name to India worldwide but I dont think thats the general party guideline. Sure they could do better to control such behaviour (and should!) but I would assume, in the interest of wanting to solve bigger issues at hand, such incidents are overlooked. But I agree, they should do more to reduce such violent behaviour.

Thats one hell of a generous take on things.
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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #507 on: September 19, 2023, 10:06:55 pm »
I cant speak for him but I think the first one is got to do with "separation out of a chunk of Indian land" vs "uniting Indian land under a single umbrella". Or atleast thats the difference between Khalistan and Hindu Nation.

As for the point about Indian govt killing people without trial abroad, I dont think thats the case. Atleast not with proofs. Indian govt isnt killing dissidents like Russia or China or Saudi Arabia. If Trudeau or Sunak can come ahead with any proof, that would go a long way in dispelling any such rumours that the govt isnt involved. But until then, it remains a strong speculation.

As for the party workers threatening violence in political rallies, there are some bad apples that bring about a bad name to India worldwide but I dont think thats the general party guideline. Sure they could do better to control such behaviour (and should!) but I would assume, in the interest of wanting to solve bigger issues at hand, such incidents are overlooked. But I agree, they should do more to reduce such violent behaviour.

Umm India is already united. It's a unified country. How do they plan on turning it into a Hindu nation? Do you want to elaborate on that? If you listen to these people it's through violent means and genocide.

Oh yeah who cares about Hindu nationalist violence, they have bigger fish to fry. More important issues to tackle. Let's ignore that many of these people calling (or dog whistling) for violence are senior leaders in the party or senior people in the IT Cell.

I will be fine with them cracking down on Khalistanis if the rules were applied fairly.

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #508 on: September 20, 2023, 02:02:15 pm »

At best you're an apologist for the Hindu-fascist regime there.

Hindu Fascism is a joke. It does not exist. 

I have worked in India as a part of a conservation NGO for several years, I have a lot more experience than you and others getting their narratives from the media. A lot of the narrative in western media is purely BS driven by vested interests.

There is a right wing government in place, same as the UK.  There are no laws discriminatory towards minorities that are in place in India. Muslims enjoy their own personal laws for marriages, inheritances and other civil disputes.

Sikhs are one of the most affluent communities and are spread everywhere across India. In Delhi, they are some of the most well to do people and account for a major proportion of the trading community in the NCR region.

Are there isolated incidents against minorities? You bet. In a country with 1.3 billion people, there are right wing extremists out there and not just from the Hindu community.

The government has no policies, programmes, laws or restrictions targeting minorities. If you bring up cow slaughter being illegal in many states, that is understandable in a country where 80% of the population considers it sacred, akin to a mother. Its a holy, sacred and religiously sensitive issue for Hindus and banning the slaughter of one animal is not a violation of the 'human rights' of the minority population.  If a referendum were to take place, cow slaughter would be banned all across the country.

This narrative that somehow India is a hostile place for minorities is a false one in general and anyone who has lived in the country for a period of time will attest to that.

You want to see hostile? Go to Pakistan and see how they treat their Hindu, Christian and Sikh populations. Go to Bangladesh where Hindus are persecuted regularly.

Phuk yoo

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #509 on: September 21, 2023, 01:33:00 am »
Hindu Fascism is a joke. It does not exist. 

I have worked in India as a part of a conservation NGO for several years, I have a lot more experience than you and others getting their narratives from the media. A lot of the narrative in western media is purely BS driven by vested interests.

There is a right wing government in place, same as the UK.  There are no laws discriminatory towards minorities that are in place in India. Muslims enjoy their own personal laws for marriages, inheritances and other civil disputes.

Sikhs are one of the most affluent communities and are spread everywhere across India. In Delhi, they are some of the most well to do people and account for a major proportion of the trading community in the NCR region.

Are there isolated incidents against minorities? You bet. In a country with 1.3 billion people, there are right wing extremists out there and not just from the Hindu community.

The government has no policies, programmes, laws or restrictions targeting minorities. If you bring up cow slaughter being illegal in many states, that is understandable in a country where 80% of the population considers it sacred, akin to a mother. Its a holy, sacred and religiously sensitive issue for Hindus and banning the slaughter of one animal is not a violation of the 'human rights' of the minority population.  If a referendum were to take place, cow slaughter would be banned all across the country.

This narrative that somehow India is a hostile place for minorities is a false one in general and anyone who has lived in the country for a period of time will attest to that.


Don't disagree, but isn't the problem a lot of people have with Modi similar to distaste for the harms Donald Trump is purported to have had on American politics?

Trump wasn't out at a KKK rally in his own hood and robe, and he likely doesn't hold views to such an extent.

But he had no qualms playing up fears he knew such factions stoked when it suited his agenda, and did little to discourage such behaviours.


You want to see hostile? Go to Pakistan and see how they treat their Hindu, Christian and Sikh populations. Go to Bangladesh where Hindus are persecuted regularly.


Not sure this kind of statement has ever been helpful in any discussion of this kind. 'Here we merely give them a good beating, you should see what they do to them next door'.  :-\
Quote
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- Martin Samuel, after we beat Arsenal 4-2 in the second leg of the CL QF 2007-200

Offline Bullet500

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #510 on: September 21, 2023, 04:07:53 am »
Hindu Fascism is a joke. It does not exist.
Says "Hindu Fascism" doesn't exist and then says the following:

You want to see hostile? Go to Pakistan and see how they treat their Hindu, Christian and Sikh populations. Go to Bangladesh where Hindus are persecuted regularly.

The intention of the current ruling party is definitely to do to Indian minorities what our neighbours do to their minorities. Listen to what their elected party members and the media say everyday.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2023, 04:10:51 am by Bullet500 »

Offline Bullet500

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #511 on: September 21, 2023, 04:25:41 am »
Sikhs are one of the most affluent communities and are spread everywhere across India. In Delhi, they are some of the most well to do people and account for a major proportion of the trading community in the NCR region.
Just so that other readers know, whenever someone says "People belonging to X religion in India are one of the most affluent communities", it usually is only true for certain castes/subcommunities. Even among Hindus. ;) Furthermore, the Sikh "trading community" away from Punjab is usually dominated by a handful of castes.

On the whole, the state of Punjab is well behind the Southern States and its neighbours - Haryana and Himachal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indian_states_and_union_territories_by_GDP_per_capita

Just 25 years ago, it used to be towards the top. The blame rests with the state government, however.

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #512 on: September 21, 2023, 04:33:50 am »
As for the party workers threatening violence in political rallies, there are some bad apples that bring about a bad name to India worldwide but I dont think thats the general party guideline.
Definitely disingenuous to say this. A union cabinet minister himself threatened violence directly. Didn't name any community, however. But we all know how dogwhistles work.

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #513 on: September 21, 2023, 04:42:12 am »
I will ignore the larger debate on farm bills and if the elected government is within its right to table bills in parliament to be discussed, debated and passed. Fourteen rounds of discussion were held with farmer associations and I believe the bill would have benefited the large majority of farmers in India.
Chapter 3 - Dispute Resolution. IAS officers would technically become the "judiciary" in case of disputes. http://164.100.47.4/BillsTexts/LSBillTexts/PassedLoksabha/113_2020_LS_Eng.pdf

How does that really help farmers? I am not saying that the judiciary can't be bribed, but we all know who can be bribed easily. ;D

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #514 on: September 21, 2023, 04:47:12 am »
"JŁrgen Klopp is bringing Liverpool's 'fuck you' back. And I can't wait."

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #515 on: September 21, 2023, 04:58:24 am »
SFJ chief warns of attack on Indian missions

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/sfj-chief-warns-of-attack-on-indian-missions/articleshow/103822222.cms?from=mdr
Been to foreign Gurudwaras myself and have firsthand heard the lies these idiots say. Their stupidity definitely doesn't help their cause.

That said, it's difficult to believe media outlets these days.

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #516 on: September 21, 2023, 05:37:01 am »
"Months After Suspension Over Namaz Row, UP Bus Conductor Dies By Suicide. Mohit, a contractual employee of Uttar Pradesh Roadways, was dismissed after a video went viral." https://www.thequint.com/news/india/uttar-pradesh-bus-conductor-mohit-yadav-namaz-row

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #517 on: September 21, 2023, 06:15:16 am »
Definitely disingenuous to say this. A union cabinet minister himself threatened violence directly. Didn't name any community, however. But we all know how dogwhistles work.

I am not aware of this to be honest. I would love some more inputs.

But that said, I believe last election, somewhere in UP, a Muslim panchayat leader had machete in his hand and called for slaughter of all hindus in his ward. Surely he is an example of a bad apple. I dont think any Indian muslims feel threatened to a point that they need to take up machetes and stand up on the dias of a political rally and call for complete slaughter of all fellow hindus. He was criticised. And nothing followed.

But we are digressing I feel.

If Trudeau can stand in front of his people and claim something as audacious as this, and its not politically motivated by the local khalistan group or NDP or whatever its called, then he must walk the talk.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2023, 06:17:01 am by ChaChaMooMoo »

Offline Bullet500

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #518 on: September 21, 2023, 06:48:53 am »
I am not aware of this to be honest. I would love some more inputs.

But that said, I believe last election, somewhere in UP, a Muslim panchayat leader had machete in his hand and called for slaughter of all hindus in his ward. Surely he is an example of a bad apple. I dont think any Indian muslims feel threatened to a point that they need to take up machetes and stand up on the dias of a political rally and call for complete slaughter of all fellow hindus. He was criticised. And nothing followed.

But we are digressing I feel.

If Trudeau can stand in front of his people and claim something as audacious as this, and its not politically motivated by the local khalistan group or NDP or whatever its called, then he must walk the talk.
Just google Anurag Thakur. Was Junior Finance Minister back then. Has held full cabinet ministries afterwards.

Petty panchayat leaders and councillors saying stupid stuff is an every day thing. Being rewarded for saying these things for top jobs is different and extremely abhorrent.

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #519 on: September 21, 2023, 07:03:41 am »
Yeah unemployment and drug problem has been left unchecked for quite some time.

But you still haven't explained why these laws are applied in a discriminatory way. You say that Sikhs are not discriminated against. It's mostly true in general society.

But why is it that Sikh Nationalism is a crime and Hindu Nationalism is not? Why is it that the government is killing people without trial abroad but has its own party workers threatening violence in political rallies? Why isn't killing off them?

If there is anyone who engages in planning, facilitating, funding activities that are a threat to the security and integrity of India then they deserve to be thrown in prison or given the punishment the crime merits as per the Indian Law. If they are executing these activities outside of India in a safe heaven, then other means should be considered.

To be clear when I say integrity of India I donít mean just the territorial integrity, it also means social. Any Hindu nationalist planning/organizing/funding activity to kill Muslims or any other minority deserves the law book thrown at them.So the law has to be the same for all of them.

The Khalistani goons sheltered by Canada have been held responsible for blowing up an airliner, committing murders, bomb blasts, drug trafficking, violently attacking politicians etc. Hindu Rashtra fanatics OTOH will type or shout aggressively on Twitter at best. Thereís no equivalence.