Topic: India - deteriorating?

[west_london_red]

To be fair, Trudeau said he is investigating the potential links. Doesnt mean there is. It could also be a dud for all we know about it today.

It will be similar to Khashoggi's murder by Saudi IF its proven that Indian govt is behind this. Until then, its all speculation.

Agreed but no PM is going to go and make comments like that publicly unless he’s either very certain or very, very stupid, can you imagine how stupid he would look if it transpired India wasn’t involved?

[ScouserAtHeart]

Agreed but no PM is going to go and make comments like that publicly unless he’s either very certain or very, very stupid, can you imagine how stupid he would look if it transpired India wasn’t involved?

Too many jokes to pick from, sadly

[bornandbRED]

To be fair, Trudeau said he is investigating the potential links. Doesnt mean there is. It could also be a dud for all we know about it today.

It will be similar to Khashoggi's murder by Saudi IF its proven that Indian govt is behind this. Until then, its all speculation.

‘Credible links’ Trudeau was quoted as saying.

What’s most concerning is perhaps the fact that a linked, previously healthy mid 30 year old activist died suddenly of a blood cancer in the same period Nijjar was killed - on U.K soil. There is strong possibility of similar involvement there and yet it seems the U.K government is happy to be complicit/turn a blind eye to a foreign entity very possibly committing murder on its own soil.

 It has strong shades of Litvinenko and yet has received next to no press coverage. Is this where we are - a gov happy to overlook stuff like this in the interests of a trade deal or ‘economic relations’?

Not to mention the case of Jagtar Singh Johal…

[ScouserAtHeart]

And in a very unsurprising turn of events, seeing a lot more shouts of #FreeQuebec on Twitter and under YouTube videos

[ChaChaMooMoo]

Agreed but no PM is going to go and make comments like that publicly unless he’s either very certain or very, very stupid, can you imagine how stupid he would look if it transpired India wasn’t involved?

Knowing Trudeau, he wont say anything even if he ends up with an egg on his face.

He will go back to restoring all ties (Restore that Indian commissioner who was expelled, send in that trade commissioner to restore talks etc.) and maybe do some halfassed attempt to appease the Indian govt about this like issue a couple of parking tickets to some of the seperatists.

[ChaChaMooMoo]

What’s most concerning is perhaps the fact that a linked, previously healthy mid 30 year old activist died suddenly of a blood cancer in the same period Nijjar was killed - on U.K soil.

I thought it was merely a rumour and that it was debunked.

But still, without any proof of any kind its hard to say anything.

As for "credible" links, he is obviously going to say that. Whether he has the balls to follow up, act on it, and reveal to the world, remains to be seen.

[west_london_red]

I thought it was merely a rumour and that it was debunked.

But still, without any proof of any kind its hard to say anything.

As for "credible" links, he is obviously going to say that. Whether he has the balls to follow up, act on it, and reveal to the world, remains to be seen.

Like I said the hardcore Khalistanis see India’s hand behind everything so it’s very hard to separate fact from fiction.

What I can say with absolute certainty is I saw Avtar Singh Khanda live on TV about a month before he died and he looked perfectly healthy, I’m no medical expert but if someone has terminal blood cancer and are into their last few weeks they would look sick I’d imagine, it’s a brutal disease and it’s effects would be visible surely?

Go back a couple of months further before he died and this man with apparently terminal blood cancer was being blamed for scaling the walls of the Indian embassy and pulling down the flag even though it’s quite clear from the footage it wasn’t him, the Met Police said it wasn’t him yet Indian politicians and media were still saying it was him.

I generally follow a mantra of the simplest explanation is the right one ie he died of natural causes, but it’s very hard to marry that up with what I saw with my own eyes.

[west_london_red]

 It has strong shades of Litvinenko and yet has received next to no press coverage. Is this where we are - a gov happy to overlook stuff like this in the interests of a trade deal or ‘economic relations’?

Not to mention the case of Jagtar Singh Johal…

That’s exactly where we are, were you ever in doubt that we weren’t? Ever since Brexit we’ve been whoring ourselves to India and people like Jagtar Singh Johal just ignored by our government and media, look at how little coverage his case has received in comparison to Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe in similar circumstances. It’s not by accident.

[B0151?]

When the Indian government response to these accusations is of course we deny it but he very much got what was coming to him and that's what happens Canada, for me it's clear that regardless of any direct involvement they absolutely have a lot to do with it.

Just my opinion when the response is to start talking about the terrorists Canada harbours. It's not like the nationalists back home wil be horrified by the accusations India could do such a thing, they absolutely think he got what he deserved.

[ChaChaMooMoo]

Are the Khalistan separatists calling for assassination of Indian members/diplomats??

[ScouserAtHeart]

When the Indian government response to these accusations is of course we deny it but he very much got what was coming to him and that's what happens Canada, for me it's clear that regardless of any direct involvement they absolutely have a lot to do with it.

Just my opinion when the response is to start talking about the terrorists Canada harbours. It's not like the nationalists back home wil be horrified by the accusations India could do such a thing, they absolutely think he got what he deserved.

Jairam Ramesh
@Jairam_Ramesh

The Indian National Congress has always believed that our country's fight against terrorism has to be uncompromising, especially when terrorism threatens India's sovereignty, unity and integrity. Our country's interests and concerns must be kept paramount at all times.

[west_london_red]

Are the Khalistan separatists calling for assassination of Indian members/diplomats??

No, I don’t think the two words are supposed to be taken together.

[ScouserAtHeart]

Are the Khalistan separatists calling for assassination of Indian members/diplomats??

There was also a parade float which celebrated Indira Gandhi's assassination

[west_london_red]

Jairam Ramesh
@Jairam_Ramesh

The Indian National Congress has always believed that our country's fight against terrorism has to be uncompromising, especially when terrorism threatens India's sovereignty, unity and integrity. Our country's interests and concerns must be kept paramount at all times.

They can fuck off too.

What fucking terrorism? Seriously, when was the last Khalistani terrorist attack? They are literally crating an 80’s tribute act and you would think Congress would know better.

[ChaChaMooMoo]

No, I don’t think the two words are supposed to be taken together.

Im not sure about that. There are multiple photos calling for assassination of Indian diplomats.

[ScouserAtHeart]

Also, the timing of this is a little suspicious

He came to India, nobody paid any attention to him, his plane was stuck on the runway for hours and then he goes back and says this.

Maybe he does have evidence, who knows. He should release it then

[west_london_red]

Im not sure about that. There are multiple photos calling for assassination of Indian diplomats.

Again I think that’s saying they are wanted for the assassination of Nijjer rather then calling for the diplomats assassination.

[west_london_red]

There was also a parade float which celebrated Indira Gandhi's assassination

Do you expect us to mourn her? Should we mourn all the Afghans and Mughals who destroyed our holy sites too?

[ScouserAtHeart]

Do you expect us to mourn her? Should we mourn all the Afghans and Mughals who destroyed our holy sites too?

Not really, it's not my place to tell Sikhs how to feel about that.

But seeing a prime minister's assassination depicted that way was sure to raise hackles, they knew what they were doing, just being provocative. It'd be the same if the remnants of the LTTE did something similar in Sri Lanka

[west_london_red]

Not really, it's not my place to tell Sikhs how to feel about that.

But seeing a prime minister's assassination depicted that way was sure to raise hackles, they knew what they were doing, just being provocative. It'd be the same if the remnants of the LTTE did something similar in Sri Lanka

Yes it’s provocative, but you’re allowed to be provocative in a democracy. Nor are depictions or celebrations of Madam Gandhis demise a recent phenomenon, it’s been going on since the day she died.

[west_london_red]

Also, the timing of this is a little suspicious

He came to India, nobody paid any attention to him, his plane was stuck on the runway for hours and then he goes back and says this.

Maybe he does have evidence, who knows. He should release it then

Have you considered he was sidelined in India because he raised these issues?

[ScouserAtHeart]

Have you considered he was sidelined in India because he raised these issues?

Could be, yeah.

Again, I don't see how this goes with regards to evidence. There won't exactly be a paper trail or anything. And if they've bugged the embassy or tapped phones, that'll lead to bigger issues. So I don't think he'll actually provide any concrete evidence. My take is he knows he's gonna lose the next elections so this is more a last ditch political ploy

[ChaChaMooMoo]

Have you considered he was sidelined in India because he raised these issues?

But they are issues that has been bothering India - the Khalistan movement I mean.

Why would he go there, with an intention to talk about them, and not expect a cold reception from the Indian government? Khalistan separatists are considered a terrorist organisation and Canada is talking in support of them.

All said and done, if Trudeau thinks he has evidence of Indian government involvement, then he must release them. Otherwise all of this wouldve been for nothing and would make any negotiations harder than it already is.

[west_london_red]

Could be, yeah.

Again, I don't see how this goes with regards to evidence. There won't exactly be a paper trail or anything. And if they've bugged the embassy or tapped phones, that'll lead to bigger issues. So I don't think he'll actually provide any concrete evidence. My take is he knows he's gonna lose the next elections so this is more a last ditch political ploy

Look at what happened with the Sergei Skripal case in the UK, you don’t need to tap phones or intercept communications to piece together what happened, flight lists, CCTV, financial transactions, mobile phone usage, there’s loads of things that can used to figure out such cases, but if someone doesn’t want to believe something they won’t.

A political ploy to what end? He’s not going to win an election on the back of the 2% Sikh population.

[ScouserAtHeart]

Look at what happened with the Sergei Skripal case in the UK, you don’t need to tap phones or intercept communications to piece together what happened, flight lists, CCTV, financial transactions, mobile phone usage, there’s loads of things that can used to figure out such cases, but if someone doesn’t want to believe something they won’t.

A political ploy to what end? He’s not going to win an election on the back of the 2% Sikh population.

Which is why it's weird why he hasn't released this evidence before making an announcement like this. He can't exactly be holding back because he's worried about straining relations with India. That won't repair till he leaves office. So why not release it if you have it, so you can prove your point? If he's trying to organise some sort of boycott of India with his allies, that's just not gonna happen.

As for politics, it's not just the 2% of the population. He'll frame it as him standing up for Canada and Canadians against a foreign country and run on that

[ChaChaMooMoo]

A political ploy to what end? He’s not going to win an election on the back of the 2% Sikh population.

NDP is Trudeaus supporting party.

He got the power this time by coming 2nd and teaming up with the 3rd or 4th party in terms of vote share.

[west_london_red]

Which is why it's weird why he hasn't released this evidence before making an announcement like this. He can't exactly be holding back because he's worried about straining relations with India. That won't repair till he leaves office. So why not release it if you have it, so you can prove your point? If he's trying to organise some sort of boycott of India with his allies, that's just not gonna happen.

As for politics, it's not just the 2% of the population. He'll frame it as him standing up for Canada and Canadians against a foreign country and run on that

It’s been less than a day since he pointed the finger at India, so I’d expect the evidence to come out in good time. As for relations being repaired after Trudeau leaves office, that pre-supposed India wasn’t involved in the killing, if it turns out India was involved then I wouldn’t be so sure.

As for your last point, you realise that’s exactly what Modi is doing. The Khalistan movement is completely dead, there is very little appetite for it, yet Modi seems intent on creating a bogeyman so he can be seen to be standing up to it.

[ScouserAtHeart]

As for your last point, you realise that’s exactly what Modi is doing. The Khalistan movement is completely dead, there is very little appetite for it, yet Modi seems intent on creating a bogeyman so he can be seen to be standing up to it.

Absolutely, which is why it's so easy to recognise

[masher]

He was the head of a temple and a peaceful protest movement; there’s absolutely 0 evidence that he was involved in any illicit activity. Comparing this to an Al-Qaeda operative is laughable, and he was 0 threat to the public.

It’s similar to Khashoggi in that he was a critic of the state operating abroad, and then silenced abroad. And the Canadian prime minister doesn’t randomly mention Indian involvement unless there is involvement.

He was also the head of Khalistan Tiger force and had a red corner notice by Interpol. Interpol doesn’t issue notices on a whim, they examine the evidence and prima facie deem it credible enough to issue a red corner notice.

Canadian local authorities also put him under house arrest in 2018 on suspicion of terror activities, but he was later released possibly due to political pressure. So no there is evidence of his involvement in terrorist activities.

["21C or 70F?" SchizoidWeatherMan!]

He was the head of a temple and a peaceful protest movement; there’s absolutely 0 evidence that he was involved in any illicit activity. Comparing this to an Al-Qaeda operative is laughable, and he was 0 threat to the public.

It’s similar to Khashoggi in that he was a critic of the state operating abroad, and then silenced abroad. And the Canadian prime minister doesn’t randomly mention Indian involvement unless there is involvement.

You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about.

[bornandbRED]

He was also the head of Khalistan Tiger force and had a red corner notice by Interpol. Interpol doesn’t issue notices on a whim, they examine the evidence and prima facie deem it credible enough to issue a red corner notice.

Canadian local authorities also put him under house arrest in 2018 on suspicion of terror activities, but he was later released possibly due to political pressure. So no there is evidence of his involvement in terrorist activities.

An Interpol red notice is simply a notification to member countries that the requesting country has made a request for extradition/arrest. It’s not an international arrest warrant, and that’s why Canada did not act upon it.

‘Khalistani terrorism’ is a complete myth. There was an insurgency decades ago in Punjab but you will find 0 instances of violence or terrorism associated with Khalistani activism in the contemporary world. Certainly nothing around ‘Khalistani Tiger Force’ - which I’ve never heard of and is most likely an Indian propaganda construct.

Nijjar himself was actually involved in peaceful, diplomatic arrangements including the arrangement of a referendum in Canada. Calling him a terrorist is like calling those asking for Scottish independence terrorists.

[Nobby Reserve]

Regardless of his disputed association with a supposed 'terrorist' group, is anyone here seriously supporting extra-judicial killings of foreign citizens in another country?

[west_london_red]

Nijjar himself was actually involved in peaceful, diplomatic arrangements including the arrangement of a referendum in Canada. Calling him a terrorist is like calling those asking for Scottish independence terrorists.

And you know what the stupidest part of it all is, if there was a referendum on the creation of Khalistan, the Khalistanis would lose it. If the Indian government really wanted to resolve this once and for all it should hold the referendum itself, it would win comfortably and that would be the end of the issue but it serves their purpose to keep things ticking over and keep the bogeyman in their back pocket to wheel out every once in a while.

[ScouserAtHeart]

It definitely would not be the end of it because if they lose they'll just claim it was rigged.

[west_london_red]

It definitely would not be the end of it because if they lose they'll just claim it was rigged.

Why? If it was done properly and most people accept it was done correctly then anyone who cries foul is just going to be further marginalised. No one in Scotland seriously suggested their referendum was rigged, not in Quebec, why would this be any different?

[masher]

An Interpol red notice is simply a notification to member countries that the requesting country has made a request for extradition/arrest. It’s not an international arrest warrant, and that’s why Canada did not act upon it.

‘Khalistani terrorism’ is a complete myth. There was an insurgency decades ago in Punjab but you will find 0 instances of violence or terrorism associated with Khalistani activism in the contemporary world. Certainly nothing around ‘Khalistani Tiger Force’ - which I’ve never heard of and is most likely an Indian propaganda construct.

Nijjar himself was actually involved in peaceful, diplomatic arrangements including the arrangement of a referendum in Canada. Calling him a terrorist is like calling those asking for Scottish independence terrorists.

Oh please, he was wanted in wanted in several cases, including the 2007 blast that killed six and injured around 40 people in Ludhiana, Punjab. He was also involved in the assassination of Rashtriya Sikh Sangat President Rulda Singh in Patiala in 2009. Canadian local authorities placed him under house arrest on suspicion of  terror activities - hardly the act of peaceful separatist.

Just today a congress block president was murdered in his home. Below is the video of that murder being captured in CCTV, if you want to watch.
https://x.com/thind_akashdeep/status/1703791107946263033?s=61

Hours later, a gangster and a designated terrorist, Arshdeep Singh Gill, took responsibility for the murder in a Facebook post purportedly from his account. He is currently a permanent resident of Canada. So while mass killings might not be done, targeted killings for personal or business gains are done by people associated with Khalistani movement.

As for the red letter notice, they aren’t issued just because a country is requesting it. As per their own website “All Red Notice requests are reviewed for compliance with INTERPOL’s Rules by our Notices and Diffusions Task Force, a specialized multilingual and multidisciplinary task force comprising lawyers, police officers and operational specialists.”

[ScouserAtHeart]

Why? If it was done properly and most people accept it was done correctly then anyone who cries foul is just going to be further marginalised. No one in Scotland seriously suggested their referendum was rigged, not in Quebec, why would this be any different?

Neither of those had a history of militant secessionist movements (in the modern era)

[ScouserAtHeart]

And they already ARE marginalized. Support fir Khalistan is much higher in immigrant communities than it is in Punjab

[west_london_red]

And they already ARE marginalized. Support fir Khalistan is much higher in immigrant communities than it is in Punjab

Yes, I have already said it’s marginalised in Punjab that why they won’t win a referendum, but if there is a referendum and it’s lost then they have had their chance, lost and I’d expect that that stage the wider community encourages them to either move on or think of a way to win the argument because it won’t be won with guns and bombs, that approach has already been tried and failed.

[Max_powers]

Could be, yeah.

Again, I don't see how this goes with regards to evidence. There won't exactly be a paper trail or anything. And if they've bugged the embassy or tapped phones, that'll lead to bigger issues. So I don't think he'll actually provide any concrete evidence. My take is he knows he's gonna lose the next elections so this is more a last ditch political ploy

This is the last thing that will do anything for him. It's a niche issue that's not gonna win him that many votes.

The killing obviously is being investigated by the police and I am sure CSIS has looked into it, PM making unsubstantiated claims will get shut down by those organizations pretty fast if that was the case.