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Author Topic: Conservatives: wholly-owned subsidiary of the ERG and 55 Tufton Street  (Read 518020 times)

Offline Studgotelli

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Re: Conservatives: wholly-owned subsidiary of the ERG and 55 Tufton Street
« Reply #14040 on: September 23, 2022, 06:06:54 pm »
Guess it's all about signalling?  They will absolute hammer everything to keep inflation down?

Pretty much. If markets ever lost confidence in the Fed then all hell breaks loose globally. They got it wrong with the transitory call so can’t be seen to not crack down now.

I think they’re also using Volcker’s playbook from the 70s. But whilst Powell is trying to do his best job he is failing to understand markets are signalling to them they are over tightening. They have a historic tendency to do so which is strange as they are “professional” economists. .

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Re: Conservatives: wholly-owned subsidiary of the ERG and 55 Tufton Street
« Reply #14041 on: September 23, 2022, 06:08:40 pm »
And BoE might do an emergency rate rise next week.

Kwarteng is such a c*nt. Clearly spent his whole life thinking he's the smartest guy in the room when he's a dipshit.

The Tories like to go on about how 'diverse' they are in terms of having female leaders and people of colour in prominent positions more recently and they have a point in a sense. One thing with them though is in order to be accepted and get those positions they need to be the most radical/right-wing people out there, from Thatcher to Patel and now Kwarteng, Braverman and Truss. It's like with the GB News hires. There's no diversity when it comes to opinion and beliefs.
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Re: Conservatives: wholly-owned subsidiary of the ERG and 55 Tufton Street
« Reply #14042 on: September 23, 2022, 06:09:24 pm »
In her letter, addressed to Foreign Office junior minister Gillian Keegan MP, Ms Thornberry wrote that it was difficult to understand why the department had spent money on items such as "high-end private catering; wellness and beauty treatments; extensive supplies from UK wineries; large amounts of home furnishing; and even £1,841 at the Norwich City club shop".
She also asked how officials managed to spend £4,333 on "two trips to the hairdresser".

At the time, South West Norfolk MP Liz Truss was leading the department as foreign secretary.

bloody hell how can you spend £1,841 in the Norwich shop

perhaps buying scarfs to give to her Man Utd supporting friends

Offline Wabaloolah

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Re: Conservatives: wholly-owned subsidiary of the ERG and 55 Tufton Street
« Reply #14043 on: September 23, 2022, 06:10:35 pm »

There's no issue with contractors who do temporary work for companies then move on, but IR35 was designed to stop such practices like [eg] IT 'contractors' working for a company for years by providing the IT support function, having their own desk/office, and claiming they weren't employees (for tax-dodging purposes)

Obviously not just IT people, but they are the ones I heard most tantrums from when it was introduced.

This also allows shyster companies like Uber and the delivery companies to get away with fucking-over their 'employees' (personally, I'd scrap the whole gig economy con)

oh absolutely, I know of a number of people who have been "employed" as a contractor for 10 years or more earning £600 a day!
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Offline Studgotelli

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Re: Conservatives: wholly-owned subsidiary of the ERG and 55 Tufton Street
« Reply #14044 on: September 23, 2022, 06:10:46 pm »
Yeah, another rate rise should help the pound but my point is if they do one next week out of their usual cycle it will smell of panic by the BoE and the government, and usually signs of panic don’t go down well with traders and bankers.

The BoE didn’t just bottle it yesterday, they have been bottling it for the last decade.

Fair enough I get you. I’m of the opinion it’s needed. EU and UK are well behind the curve and need to hike significantly to stop the $ rally which is a wrecking ball. We’re facing a global recession either way at this point. Either that or the Fed pauses which they won’t do as the US economy is still pretty resilient atm so BOE have to take action. Shit situation all round I agree.

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Re: Conservatives: wholly-owned subsidiary of the ERG and 55 Tufton Street
« Reply #14045 on: September 23, 2022, 06:11:57 pm »
Pretty much. If markets ever lost confidence in the Fed then all hell breaks loose globally. They got it wrong with the transitory call so can’t be seen to not crack down now.

I think they’re also using Volcker’s playbook from the 70s. But whilst Powell is trying to do his best job he is failing to understand markets are signalling to them they are over tightening. They have a historic tendency to do so which is strange as they are “professional” economists. .


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Re: Conservatives: wholly-owned subsidiary of the ERG and 55 Tufton Street
« Reply #14046 on: September 23, 2022, 06:17:29 pm »
@paulkrugman
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition — or the zombie economic apocalypse. The Truss government believes in the miraculous power of tax cuts? Really? At this late date?

What's really amazing is that surging interest rates have been accompanied by a *plunge* in the pound. This is not supposed to happen in advanced countries: we expect deficit spending to drive up interest rates and make the currency *rise*, which is what happened under Reagan

But Britain is now trading like a developing country, where perceived fiscal irresponsibility is undermining confidence in the value of its currency. It's actually kind of awesome.

https://twitter.com/paulkrugman/status/1573283558680301569

Awesome unless you live there. Or left 4 years ago but still have a mortgage  :butt

Offline cormorant

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Re: Conservatives: wholly-owned subsidiary of the ERG and 55 Tufton Street
« Reply #14047 on: September 23, 2022, 06:19:48 pm »
I really think that most of the electorate are simply oblivious

That's it. In a nutshell.

Most people simply don't care, understand or are indifferent. When I say 'don't care',  a lot do but are focused on the day to day task of paying bills and aren't looking at the bigger picture. The Tories are robbing the vast majority of the population and the population can't will the muster to fight back in any meaningful way.

« Last Edit: September 23, 2022, 06:21:26 pm by cormorant »
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Re: Conservatives: wholly-owned subsidiary of the ERG and 55 Tufton Street
« Reply #14048 on: September 23, 2022, 06:22:17 pm »
oh absolutely, I know of a number of people who have been "employed" as a contractor for 10 years or more earning £600 a day!

Take out paid hols, pension contribs, sick pay, health care, life insurance, accountant fees from that.
"All the lads have been talking about is walking out in front of the Kop, with 40,000 singing 'You'll Never Walk Alone'," Collins told BBC Radio Solent. "All the money in the world couldn't buy that feeling," he added.

Offline PaulF

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Re: Conservatives: wholly-owned subsidiary of the ERG and 55 Tufton Street
« Reply #14049 on: September 23, 2022, 06:24:03 pm »
Awesome unless you live there. Or left 4 years ago but still have a mortgage  :butt
Unless you are retired and living on a GBP pensions, then I expect if you can get a minimum wage job, almost anywhere in the world, then you can pay off your GBP mortgage in a couple of weeks :)


--edit-- @Elmo. If Nicola keeps the higher tax rate, are you moving south of the border :)
"All the lads have been talking about is walking out in front of the Kop, with 40,000 singing 'You'll Never Walk Alone'," Collins told BBC Radio Solent. "All the money in the world couldn't buy that feeling," he added.

Offline Flaccido Dongingo

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Re: Conservatives: wholly-owned subsidiary of the ERG and 55 Tufton Street
« Reply #14050 on: September 23, 2022, 06:24:59 pm »
Take out paid hols, pension contribs, sick pay, health care, life insurance, accountant fees from that.
Yes it would be really dreadful having to squirrel a little bit of money away for each of those with £12k gross per month, perish the fucking thought.

Offline Libertine

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Re: Conservatives: wholly-owned subsidiary of the ERG and 55 Tufton Street
« Reply #14051 on: September 23, 2022, 06:27:12 pm »
Unless you are retired and living on a GBP pensions, then I expect if you can get a minimum wage job, almost anywhere in the world, then you can pay off your GBP mortgage in a couple of weeks :)

I think I've got a $50 bill somewhere. Give it a month or two and that should suffice.

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Re: Conservatives: wholly-owned subsidiary of the ERG and 55 Tufton Street
« Reply #14052 on: September 23, 2022, 06:28:15 pm »
Unless you are retired and living on a GBP pensions, then I expect if you can get a minimum wage job, almost anywhere in the world, then you can pay off your GBP mortgage in a couple of weeks :)


--edit-- @Elmo. If Nicola keeps the higher tax rate, are you moving south of the border :)

Am I fuck!  ;D

I appreciate having decent public services and a government that at least tries to look after its citizens. The noises coming from Sturgeon suggest they aren't going to mirror the changes, and as it is classed as a giveaway, it results in over £600m in additional Barnett consequentials for Scotland.

(Also I am a long way away from higher rate tax bands)

Offline PaulF

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Re: Conservatives: wholly-owned subsidiary of the ERG and 55 Tufton Street
« Reply #14053 on: September 23, 2022, 06:29:19 pm »
Yes it would be really dreadful having to squirrel a little bit of money away for each of those with £12k gross per month, perish the fucking thought.
A decent IT wage would be about £6K a month though.  £12k assumes 20 days a month.  Take out perhaps 3 days a month for holidays , 10% for pension.  So 16 days.  Leaves them "only" 50% better off. minus a few of the  other bits gets them to 40% better off. Which would seem reasonable for a 'proper' contractor that was at risk of losing their job at the end of the contract.

--edit-- my math went pear shaped there. I was thinking £60K for IT salary. Which is not £6K a month!
« Last Edit: September 23, 2022, 06:31:43 pm by PaulF »
"All the lads have been talking about is walking out in front of the Kop, with 40,000 singing 'You'll Never Walk Alone'," Collins told BBC Radio Solent. "All the money in the world couldn't buy that feeling," he added.

Offline PaulF

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Re: Conservatives: wholly-owned subsidiary of the ERG and 55 Tufton Street
« Reply #14054 on: September 23, 2022, 06:30:35 pm »
(Also I am a long way away from higher rate tax bands)

That's the bit I was ribbing you about :)

It might help Labour's cause too, if the higher taxes there lead to other visible benefits , lower NHS waiting times, free uni education, etc etc.
"All the lads have been talking about is walking out in front of the Kop, with 40,000 singing 'You'll Never Walk Alone'," Collins told BBC Radio Solent. "All the money in the world couldn't buy that feeling," he added.

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Re: Conservatives: wholly-owned subsidiary of the ERG and 55 Tufton Street
« Reply #14055 on: September 23, 2022, 06:31:19 pm »
A decent IT wage would be about £6K a month though.

 :'(

I wish! I earn far less than that, though I 'venot exactly done the job hopping required to really climb the salary ladder, too comfortable in my current job and not really money oriented.

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Re: Conservatives: wholly-owned subsidiary of the ERG and 55 Tufton Street
« Reply #14056 on: September 23, 2022, 06:31:58 pm »
That's it. In a nutshell.

Most people simply don't care, understand or are indifferent. When I say 'don't care',  a lot do but are focused on the day to day task of paying bills and aren't looking at the bigger picture. The Tories are robbing the vast majority of the population and the population can't will the muster to fight back in any meaningful way.


The one positive is how quickly the narrative has been established that this government is incompetent and with mindlessly moronic policies.

Most of us (the ones not idealogically wedded to right-wing Toryism, at least) knew this, but when not just experts wiho otherwise lean right-of-centre but the markets themselves, blow a huge raspberry at this budget, you know that this core narrative is going to be resonating with ordinary voters in a way that Labour criticism could never achieve.
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Re: Conservatives: wholly-owned subsidiary of the ERG and 55 Tufton Street
« Reply #14057 on: September 23, 2022, 06:36:32 pm »
:'(

I wish! I earn far less than that, though I 'venot exactly done the job hopping required to really climb the salary ladder, too comfortable in my current job and not really money oriented.
I believe  the term today is that you’re a “plodder”

Welcome to the club…

Until today I thought it was a positive!
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Re: Conservatives: wholly-owned subsidiary of the ERG and 55 Tufton Street
« Reply #14058 on: September 23, 2022, 06:37:22 pm »
I believe  the term today is that you’re a “plodder”

Welcome to the club…

Until today I thought it was a positive!

Starting to think I should have put more effort into climbing the greasy pole given the prospects for energy prices and mortgate payments.....

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Re: Conservatives: wholly-owned subsidiary of the ERG and 55 Tufton Street
« Reply #14059 on: September 23, 2022, 06:43:45 pm »
Starting to think I should have put more effort into climbing the greasy pole given the prospects for energy prices and mortgate payments.....
Tush… you should have become a venture capitalist!
That’s the way we are told…
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Re: Conservatives: wholly-owned subsidiary of the ERG and 55 Tufton Street
« Reply #14060 on: September 23, 2022, 06:54:08 pm »
That's it. In a nutshell.

Most people simply don't care, understand or are indifferent. When I say 'don't care',  a lot do but are focused on the day to day task of paying bills and aren't looking at the bigger picture. The Tories are robbing the vast majority of the population and the population can't will the muster to fight back in any meaningful way.

A large part of this is down to the quality of information presented to people. Think about the Brexit debate. Opinions of a woman with one tooth in a greasy spoon in Stoke were given the same factual credence on TV as predictions from economics professors. Johnson’s lies, and his Russian connections were glossed over by the media until his own people couldn’t stomach having to lie for him only to be shown up 10 minutes later. Yet the Starmer is “just as bad” was pushed relentlessly at people.
The most important propaganda tool of the right is the tabloid front page. Pull up at a garage and the headlines scream at you even if you don’t buy or read the papers. Watch the news, and they hold up the front pages reinforcing the propaganda without any real explanation.

Interesting that the BBC tonight actually asked business people for their opinions as well as a teacher, and a worker in a pie factory. And in all cases it was a meaningless soundbite they used. Even the gonk from the CBI was spewing out mindless soundbite gobbledegook
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Re: Conservatives: wholly-owned subsidiary of the ERG and 55 Tufton Street
« Reply #14061 on: September 23, 2022, 06:59:27 pm »
Starting to think I should have put more effort into climbing the greasy pole given the prospects for energy prices and mortgate payments.....
I sometimes think I should have too. But I remember a supervisor once telling me on a night out that the next day she had to deal with telling someone they had a body odour issue. No amount of money is worth that sort of grief.
"All the lads have been talking about is walking out in front of the Kop, with 40,000 singing 'You'll Never Walk Alone'," Collins told BBC Radio Solent. "All the money in the world couldn't buy that feeling," he added.

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Re: Conservatives: wholly-owned subsidiary of the ERG and 55 Tufton Street
« Reply #14062 on: September 23, 2022, 07:00:43 pm »
A large part of this is down to the quality of information presented to people. Think about the Brexit debate. Opinions of a woman with one tooth in a greasy spoon in Stoke were given the same factual credence on TV as predictions from economics professors. Johnson’s lies, and his Russian connections were glossed over by the media until his own people couldn’t stomach having to lie for him only to be shown up 10 minutes later. Yet the Starmer is “just as bad” was pushed relentlessly at people.
The most important propaganda tool of the right is the tabloid front page. Pull up at a garage and the headlines scream at you even if you don’t buy or read the papers. Watch the news, and they hold up the front pages reinforcing the propaganda without any real explanation.

Interesting that the BBC tonight actually asked business people for their opinions as well as a teacher, and a worker in a pie factory. And in all cases it was a meaningless soundbite they used. Even the gonk from the CBI was spewing out mindless soundbite gobbledegook
I was going to switch over after the opening headlines. Man saying we may be better off when the Trickle down works but we need help now. had the news on and off all day. not 1 vox pop said they think Trickle down economics work, BBC news did within seconds.
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Re: Conservatives: wholly-owned subsidiary of the ERG and 55 Tufton Street
« Reply #14063 on: September 23, 2022, 07:05:06 pm »
I sometimes think I should have too. But I remember a supervisor once telling me on a night out that the next day she had to deal with telling someone they had a body odour issue. No amount of money is worth that sort of grief.
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Re: Conservatives: wholly-owned subsidiary of the ERG and 55 Tufton Street
« Reply #14065 on: September 23, 2022, 07:06:52 pm »
Yes it would be really dreadful having to squirrel a little bit of money away for each of those with £12k gross per month, perish the fucking thought.

And tax, unless the system enables tax dodging.

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Re: Conservatives: wholly-owned subsidiary of the ERG and 55 Tufton Street
« Reply #14066 on: September 23, 2022, 07:07:02 pm »
From the Guardian live blog. Read it and weep.

Quote
Here is the exchange between Kwasi Kwarteng, the chancellor, and the BBC’s Chris Mason.

MASON: Do you think the economy is in recession?

KWARTENG: Technically, the Bank of England said that there was a recession, I think it’ll be shallow and I hope that we can rebound and grow

MASON: So you’re acknowledging that there is going to be a recession

KWARTENG: I’m not acknowledging that, no no I said that there is technically a recession. We’ve had two quarters of very little, negative growth and I think these measures are gonna help us drive growth.

MASON: a recession is a recession and you’re saying we’re in recession

KWARTENG: I’m not saying we’re in recession, I’m referring to what the Bank has said. And I think we’re gonna drive growth with these policies

MASON: what’s the difference between a technical recession and a recession

KWARTENG: There’s a big difference. Technically, the economists say two consecutive quarters, but I think we’re going to grow the economy, that’s what we’re doing that’s what we’re focused on.

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Re: Conservatives: wholly-owned subsidiary of the ERG and 55 Tufton Street
« Reply #14067 on: September 23, 2022, 07:31:16 pm »
This budget is being hugely slated from all corners.

I guess that's two Liz's buried in a week!
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Re: Conservatives: wholly-owned subsidiary of the ERG and 55 Tufton Street
« Reply #14068 on: September 23, 2022, 07:35:50 pm »
All remaining EU laws to be scrapped or replaced by end of next year:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/09/23/remaining-eu-laws-scrapped-replaced-end-next-year/

Quote
Bonfire of red tape would lead to ‘a simpler system’ for UK firms, says Kwasi Kwarteng

Remaining EU laws are to be torn up by the end of next year as part of the Chancellor's bid to reduce unnecessary costs for British businesses and unleash growth.

Kwasi Kwarteng said the bonfire of red tape would lead to “a simpler system” that was easier for firms to navigate, as he also unveiled a bonanza of tax cuts to boost the flagging economy.


 

Bye-bye to workers' rights, health and safety protections, environment safeguards, regulations to protect consumers.

And still idiots will view the EU as 'the enemy'

 

This country's being dragged down the toilet for the sake of a hard-right Tufton Street wet dream.
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Re: Conservatives: wholly-owned subsidiary of the ERG and 55 Tufton Street
« Reply #14069 on: September 23, 2022, 07:40:18 pm »
From the Guardian live blog. Read it and weep.

think someone said a couple of days ago in this thread that Truss and the Chancellor are not thick! I think that totally disproves that theory for the Chancellor at least
« Last Edit: September 23, 2022, 07:50:45 pm by Wabaloolah »
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Re: Conservatives: wholly-owned subsidiary of the ERG and 55 Tufton Street
« Reply #14070 on: September 23, 2022, 07:43:15 pm »
I just read on the BBC that apparently there was also an announcement that planning regulations will be relaxed for the building of onshore wind farms after they were pretty much banned by Cameron.

One small win I suppose.
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Re: Conservatives: wholly-owned subsidiary of the ERG and 55 Tufton Street
« Reply #14071 on: September 23, 2022, 07:58:02 pm »
All remaining EU laws to be scrapped or replaced by end of next year:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/09/23/remaining-eu-laws-scrapped-replaced-end-next-year/
 

 

Bye-bye to workers' rights, health and safety protections, environment safeguards, regulations to protect consumers.

And still idiots will view the EU as 'the enemy'

 

This country's being dragged down the toilet for the sake of a hard-right Tufton Street wet dream.

Wonder how it'll remove "red tape". Any business trading with the EU will still have to comply with EU regulations. But without having the same ones in the UK, anything that could be exported or offered as a service will.probably have to undergo some sort of independent testing to show conformity. Which actually introduces a lot of new paperwork, and costs.
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Online Red Berry

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Re: Conservatives: wholly-owned subsidiary of the ERG and 55 Tufton Street
« Reply #14072 on: September 23, 2022, 08:07:19 pm »
From the Guardian live blog. Read it and weep.

Recessioning without recessioning.
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Online Red Berry

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Re: Conservatives: wholly-owned subsidiary of the ERG and 55 Tufton Street
« Reply #14073 on: September 23, 2022, 08:08:42 pm »
All remaining EU laws to be scrapped or replaced by end of next year:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/09/23/remaining-eu-laws-scrapped-replaced-end-next-year/
 

 

Bye-bye to workers' rights, health and safety protections, environment safeguards, regulations to protect consumers.

And still idiots will view the EU as 'the enemy'

 

This country's being dragged down the toilet for the sake of a hard-right Tufton Street wet dream.

They'll be working everyone from the sick to the elderly to death to try and save an economy that stopped twitching about 18 months ago.
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Offline cormorant

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Re: Conservatives: wholly-owned subsidiary of the ERG and 55 Tufton Street
« Reply #14074 on: September 23, 2022, 08:25:40 pm »
A large part of this is down to the quality of information presented to people. Think about the Brexit debate. Opinions of a woman with one tooth in a greasy spoon in Stoke were given the same factual credence on TV as predictions from economics professors. Johnson’s lies, and his Russian connections were glossed over by the media until his own people couldn’t stomach having to lie for him only to be shown up 10 minutes later. Yet the Starmer is “just as bad” was pushed relentlessly at people.
The most important propaganda tool of the right is the tabloid front page. Pull up at a garage and the headlines scream at you even if you don’t buy or read the papers. Watch the news, and they hold up the front pages reinforcing the propaganda without any real explanation.

Interesting that the BBC tonight actually asked business people for their opinions as well as a teacher, and a worker in a pie factory. And in all cases it was a meaningless soundbite they used. Even the gonk from the CBI was spewing out mindless soundbite gobbledegook

I couldn't agree more. The Daily Mail/Express especially and their front pages have me frotthing on an everyday basis. I stay out of this thread for the certainty of my sanity. What I struggle to understand is how people can be trampled on nearly every single day and not react. Guess it's a case of a multitude of factors. But really wish that someone would kick this government's ass. And Hard.
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Offline McSquared

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Re: Conservatives: wholly-owned subsidiary of the ERG and 55 Tufton Street
« Reply #14075 on: September 23, 2022, 08:49:22 pm »
What a fuck up!

Offline Ray K

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Re: Conservatives: wholly-owned subsidiary of the ERG and 55 Tufton Street
« Reply #14076 on: September 23, 2022, 09:01:39 pm »
Just in from work and listened to the chancellor delivering his budget.  Aside from the nonsense content he sounds like Sean Dyche on a bad day.
Quite handy when he announces food rationing later this year and that you're all going to have to eat worms.
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Re: Conservatives: wholly-owned subsidiary of the ERG and 55 Tufton Street
« Reply #14077 on: September 23, 2022, 09:05:14 pm »
think someone said a couple of days ago in this thread that Truss and the Chancellor are not thick! I think that totally disproves that theory for the Chancellor at least

There was a puff piece on Newsnight about Kwarteng with some people who met him bigging him up. Honestly they think we are stupid and some people are still seduced by a grasp of English and a high paid education.

Kwarteng, Truss and i would say the vast majority of MP’s range from downright dumb to mediocre at best. The PM and Chancellor are not bright, they have nothing about them and there is not a single thing that we need to avoid underestimating.

Offline Red Ol

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Re: Conservatives: wholly-owned subsidiary of the ERG and 55 Tufton Street
« Reply #14078 on: September 23, 2022, 09:09:36 pm »
What a fuck up!

Indeed Just  disastrous and arrogant..  like giving Jimmy Saville the keys to Cheltenham Ladies college, it’s that bad
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Re: Conservatives: wholly-owned subsidiary of the ERG and 55 Tufton Street
« Reply #14079 on: September 23, 2022, 09:21:31 pm »
There was a puff piece on Newsnight about Kwarteng with some people who met him bigging him up. Honestly they think we are stupid and some people are still seduced by a grasp of English and a high paid education.

Kwarteng, Truss and i would say the vast majority of MP’s range from downright dumb to mediocre at best. The PM and Chancellor are not bright, they have nothing about them and there is not a single thing that we need to avoid underestimating.

I met Kwasi K a couple of times when he was about 19. He was terrifying to me. Not because he seemed particularly smart - he didn't at all - but because he was utterly convinced of his own importance, and lacking any lightheartedness or youthful spirit. He shook my hand as if he was a 50 year old statesman. I'd probably just gone for coffee after an all-night rave or something, so we weren't exactly in the same zone. These people are trained to rule, they think Ozymandias was a role model.