Topic: Age profile of the team

[kcbworth]

I'd even go a step further and say one or two players per window or season is the perfect speed of transition. Any more starts to become disruptive

Maybe, maybe not. Klopp overhauled the whole squad fairly quickly to turn us into contenders. Celtic in Scotland this year had up to 10 new players signed from deadline day and christmas windows and they were an amazing team that won the league there. I think it's possible.

Agree we're currently such a well oiled machine though it's hard to imagine what a non-disruptive overhaul would look like to us

[jepovic]

I'd even go a step further and say one or two players per window or season is the perfect speed of transition. Any more starts to become disruptive, especially when we have the closest thing to a well oiled precision machine in world football.

Assuming a player stays 5 years on average, we need 4-5 signings per year to maintain a squad of 22 players.
2 signings per year would require each player to stay more than 10 years on average, which is completely unrealistic. Then we cant sign anyone older than 21

[spider-neil]

Assuming a player stays 5 years on average, we need 4-5 signings per year to maintain a squad of 22 players.
2 signings per year would require each player to stay more than 10 years on average, which is completely unrealistic. Then we cant sign anyone older than 21

That doesn't take into account the players we introduce from the reserves.

[Aceldama]

Mane - 30 (he has a good 2 years in him) / NO DANGER
Salah - 30 (he has a good 4 years in him) / NO DANGER

The danger with these two is they both have only 12 months left on their contracts and it's far from certain either will sign new ones.

None of the OG front three would be happy with 2/3 year extensions but handing out multiple 4/5 year extensions for players that may only have good 2 years left is clearly a bad idea.

[Sheer Magnetism]

I love Salah as a player but I'm not sure why people think he's still going to be at his peak at 34 or 35 when his dribbling and quick feet are such a big part of his game. Suarez looked unstoppable at Salah's age and he's still effective given his finishing ability, but there was a gradual and noticeable drop off once he hit 30, even at La Liga pace.

And Salah is a lot closer to Suarez's playing style than he is to Benzema or Lewandowski, who are essentially traditional number nines who combine size and strength with exceptional game intelligence and finishing ability.

[Aceldama]

Didn't want to get into this conversation but let's do it.

So simply from squad perspectives:

We got 27 players averaging 27.2 years. City has got 22 (23 with Haaland) and is averaging 27.6 years.

Foden is 21

Dias, Rodri  25

Grealish is 26

Laporte, Stones, Aké, Cancelo, Bernardo Silva, $terling 27

Ederson 28

De Bruyne is 30

Mahrez, Walker, Gündogan  31

snip

This is a good demonstration of why averages are deceiving on this topic. We have very similar average age but very different age profiles. We're a mix of old and young, they're more focused around the average age. Man City will need a deeper overhaul than us because of their lack of young players but they'll need it ~3 years later than us and look pretty set and stable for the next few seasons.

To throw some numbers at it: Man City have 9 players in that 25-27 year old 'approaching prime' age bracket and 6 of them were in their 10 most used players last season. We have 5 players in that age bracket (discounting Origi who is leaving) but only 1 of them is in our 10 most used players. If you look at the rest of the most used players lists: we have 4 30 something players in our top 10  (+ Salah who turns 30 in 3 weeks), they have 2.

[Aceldama]

I love Salah as a player but I'm not sure why people think he's still going to be at his peak at 34 or 35 when his dribbling and quick feet are such a big part of his game. Suarez looked unstoppable at Salah's age and he's still effective given his finishing ability, but there was a gradual and noticeable drop off once he hit 30, even at La Liga pace.

And Salah is a lot closer to Suarez's playing style than he is to Benzema or Lewandowski, who are essentially traditional number nines who combine size and strength with exceptional game intelligence and finishing ability.

Suarez's drop off still saw him score 20 goals and win the league last season. But yeah, extending Salah would really need to take into account him losing pace, how that would change his role and how that would work for the team.

[ScouserAtHeart]

https://theathletic.com/3340132/2022/05/31/liverpool-season-data-analysis/

[RedG13]

https://theathletic.com/3340132/2022/05/31/liverpool-season-data-analysis/

I would expect Henderson minutes to go down next season, hopefully Fabinho a little too. Jota Possible too with Diaz, Thiago, Jones, Elliott,Keita getting more minutes. Milner hasnt signed offically irc, and Possible Ox is gone would open up some more minutes too.
I think Mane and Salah minutes would go down a little too assuming Mane is still here, just help manage with 3 comps with 5 subs too.
Matip/Konate/Gomez Minutes we will see. Dont expect Virgil or Alisson minutes to change same with Trent. Robertson might get managed minutes a little more the 5 subs too, same with Trent. FB, MF and Forward would be most subbed positions for the squad next season

[NarutoReds]

I read in the news, Brexit transfer rules ensuring in future, the club could no longer sign players under the age of 18 from Europe.

Might need to depend on our academy to replace some of our (going to be) "older" players, I guess.   

[mrantarctica]

I read in the news, Brexit transfer rules ensuring in future, the club could no longer sign players under the age of 18 from Europe.

Might need to depend on our academy to replace some of our (going to be) "older" players, I guess.   

Can't imagine that would stop players from England, Ireland, Wales and Scotland though, so not just necessarily Liverpool lads.

As for the age profile of the team, well I had mentioned it last year too but you need 3 tiers in the team
Tier 1 - Young players with potential to be class players (Harvey, Carvalho, Curtis)
Tier 2 - Players at their physical peak  (Trent, Gomez, Ibou, Kostas, Robbo, Naby, Arthur, Diaz, Diogo, Darwin)
Tier 3 - Players who are top notch despite being past their physical peak, but bring non-physical attributes e.g., experience, leadership etc. (Adrian, Matip, VVD, Milner, Fab, Thiago, Hendo, Ox, Firmino, Salah,

We unfortunately have too many in Tier 3, and some in Tier 1 but not enough in Tier 2. We'd be better having most of our players in Tier 2, with a few in Tier 1 and just a handful or so in Tier 3. If you look at who we have in Tier 2, they are all players who are struggling with injuries, or have just arrived into the team, or having a pretty bad run of form. In other words, we have too small a group of players that should be carrying the bulk of the intensity of our play, and all of them are struggling to perform at their best, let alone get on the pitch at the moment. This has meant the extra burden has fallen into the Tier 3 players who, in such a congested season without adequate preparation are definitely showing signs of lack of condition and form, and also the Tier 1 players who, despite their great potential, are being asked to do too much for their current level of ability. As much as I rate Harvey and Carvalho, and Curtis... on their current level of ability, they shouldn't be playing week in week out if we want to challenge for the title, and win the CL.

Unfortunately, the solution is to rebalance the squad. We need to desperately replenish the ranks of players in Tier 2, but with really top class players which is much easier said than done. I think we could be in for an extended rebuild which might take a few seasons.

[newterp]

Milner extension?

Goodness.

[G Richards]

So you're basically saying, "They're all at it, they're all corrupt, we may as well be too"?

Shanks said a lot of things, like football being more important than life and death. He was wrong on that too. The game has moved on, and you can't separate an owner from a club. Most of them want the limelight. By your own logic, there is no "Holy Trinity" anymore, because everyone in the game is corrupt.

As for us being okay with hedgefund managers, I think you forget the jam we were in at the time. That particular point has a whiff of whataboutism to it.

But by all means, you do you. It's hard to walk away from something we're emotionally invested in, and I prefer people to be honest rather than rationalise or find ways to justify their position.

Thats not what I’m saying. I don’t want to cheat, like Man City have done, for example. Their revenue is very suspect, and there are question marks over the transfer fees they pay, and the salaries they pay.

I want to be above board and go by the rules that are in play. No cheating.

Beyond that, I’m just citing Shanks to separate out the owners from my consideration. It’s about the fans, manager and team.

To the degree Shanks was saying that, then I think it is still relevant, and for me at least, gives me a way to see a future as a supporter beyond any owner that I personally disapprove of. At that point the owners, whoever they are, would be irrelevant to me. I wouldn’t support them, or think about them. I would support the team and back the manager.

[Passmaster Molby]

Milner extension?

Goodness.

If Jurgen wants him to stay then so be it. FSG getting criticised for backing the manager now?

[SamLad]

Milner extension?

Ah, now it's all starting to make sense.

[Gerry Attrick]

“How long would you like to stay here James”
“Until I’m 50 would be lovely”
“Consider it done”

We’re just not learning. At all. We want to see hard evidence that these players have actually retired before we consider moving anybody on. Doesn’t seem like we are capable of being proactive anymore. It’s a sign of a team that’s become a little bit dumb in the decision making stakes. If Man United were doing this I’d be licking my chops because they’d have no chance in the future.

[Gooseberry Fool]

“How long would you like to stay here James”
“Until I’m 50 would be lovely”
“Consider it done”

We’re just not learning. At all. We want to see hard evidence that these players have actually retired before we consider moving anybody on. Doesn’t seem like we are capable of being proactive anymore. It’s a sign of a team that’s become a little bit dumb in the decision making stakes. If Man United were doing this I’d be licking my chops because they’d have no chance in the future.

If Klopp wants him to stay and sees value in him staying then all power to the extension.

There must be a plan behind this, and not just a whim of fancy by the "Goofy German Guy" (as someone on this board has recently characterised Klopp as).

[tamadic]

Even if you don't give a shit about the sportswashing, if that doesn't play in to your morals and even if you only care about the financial benefits or whatever...how depressing is it that the competitive teams will all be owned by the middle east, it's not the English premier league is it, it's not the EPL.its the MEPL, you might as well support city and Newcastle, there's no difference, just pick which ever team is in form every week, there's nothing unique about these clubs, they're the same they just play in different parts of England but thats it. That's what we will be, just another club, might as well change our name, it means nothing.

I get your point. But FSG is from America, and it's special to you?
Or, you just think they are lesser evil?

[FlashGordon]

I get your point. But FSG is from America, and it's special to you?
Or, you just think they are lesser evil?

Being owned by a country and being owned by private individuals is two different things. It's not that hard to comprehend.

[Fromola]

“How long would you like to stay here James”
“Until I’m 50 would be lovely”
“Consider it done”

We’re just not learning. At all. We want to see hard evidence that these players have actually retired before we consider moving anybody on. Doesn’t seem like we are capable of being proactive anymore. It’s a sign of a team that’s become a little bit dumb in the decision making stakes. If Man United were doing this I’d be licking my chops because they’d have no chance in the future.

I wouldn't particularly care if we renewed Milner every year till the end of Klopp's contract, but as I said last summer it can't be at the expense of new signings when we need them.

It's like we go looking for excuses not to sign players.

[Gerry Attrick]

If Klopp wants him to stay and sees value in him staying then all power to the extension.

There must be a plan behind this, and not just a whim of fancy by the "Goofy German Guy" (as someone on this board has recently characterised Klopp as).

Great managers are not always the best squad builders and decision makers in terms of retention and recruitment. If Klopp has wanted all these contract extensions that should be all the more reason to be concerned we want even more as we’ve already sleep walked into a mess. Klopp can be fallible in certain areas, he doesn’t have to be perfect to justify him being the best.

[killer-heels]

If Jurgen wants him to stay then so be it. FSG getting criticised for backing the manager now?

No thats all on Klopp if he does extend. It would just highlight that its unlikely we make many changes in the summer.

[Billy Elliot]

Uhh, love to generalize much? I don't really follow UK politics but it sounds like Starmer if elected would still follow some Tory policies, so does that mean all Labour or those on the left aren't really left? No as that would be ridiculous. Same shit here. Just because Clinton era and beyond national Dems are generally to the right of the liberals in the EU doesn't mean all are and it's completely ridiculous to say otherwise.

I don't think anybody refers to Starmer as the left. The liberals in the EU aren't left either. Some Labour backbenchers and maybe the Greens, are the only mainstream left right now.

[arabliverpool90]

We had news from tier 1s saying the next summer is going to have a massive clear out, and now we have reports stating that Milner, Firmino and possibly Keita are getting extentions. Its becoming really hard to believe anyone these days.

[arabliverpool90]

I don't think anybody refers to Starmer as the left. The liberals in the EU aren't left either. Some Labour backbenchers and maybe the Greens, are the only mainstream left right now.

I don't want to turn this thread into a political thread. But on issues like: immigration, integration/diversity, LGBTQ/ Trans rights the Democrats are very Liberal compared to both the tories and Labour. 

[Tis the season to be jillc]

If Klopp wants him to stay and sees value in him staying then all power to the extension.

There must be a plan behind this, and not just a whim of fancy by the "Goofy German Guy" (as someone on this board has recently characterised Klopp as).

They would like him to do some coaching that would be the ultimate plan. When they were using the youngster’s for the cup competitions he would travel down with them.

[arabliverpool90]

https://mobile.twitter.com/BURNITDOWNNNNN/status/1616605759013265408?t=nrt6rgfrF1y7QS0ipos1uQ&s=19

Anyone from America or someone who follows baseball, knows why John Henry is being booed by the fans ?

[Good King WencDimGlas]

https://mobile.twitter.com/BURNITDOWNNNNN/status/1616605759013265408?t=nrt6rgfrF1y7QS0ipos1uQ&s=19

Anyone from America or someone who follows baseball, knows why John Henry is being booed by the fans ?

Boston Red Sox fans think he’s tight.

[HeartAndSoul]

If Klopp wants him to stay and sees value in him staying then all power to the extension.

There must be a plan behind this, and not just a whim of fancy by the "Goofy German Guy" (as someone on this board has recently characterised Klopp as).

If it’s more about filling out the home grown quota / joining the coaching team as well as only starting games in the league cup games then fair enough. I think in the league this season, at the start of the campaign he was playing some ridiculous amount of games due to our lack of spending in midfield. If he’s to start any of our league games next season, we’re in big big trouble.

[Tis the season to be jillc]

We had news from tier 1s saying the next summer is going to have a massive clear out, and now we have reports stating that Milner, Firmino and possibly Keita are getting extentions. Its becoming really hard to believe anyone these days.

All that implies is ignore what the journalists say, as they haven’t got a clue about what is going on at the club.

[killer-heels]

6 players 30 or above starting yesterday and just 4 players under 28. We really are a very old team.