Author Topic: Attacking #20  (Read 13482 times)

Offline Samie

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Re: Attacking #20
« Reply #120 on: October 17, 2020, 03:41:30 PM »
Alisson is out for 4-6 weeks and he's been out for two already.  Safe to say he'll be back soon.

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Re: Attacking #20
« Reply #121 on: October 17, 2020, 03:41:44 PM »
You thought we defended well ? What game did you watch exactly? We had very little to do defensively and anything we had to we did it pretty badly.

We were in a Merseyside derby, itís still a tough game. We have more than enough quality in our side, unless people think the other 9 or 10 players are just some bargain basement footballer?

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Re: Attacking #20
« Reply #122 on: October 17, 2020, 03:42:10 PM »
Alisson is out for 4-6 weeks and he's been out for two already.  Safe to say he'll be back soon.

From the sounds of Kloppo in the presser he will be back before that. I am not a doc or physio but I very much doubt Thiago will be our for too long.

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Re: Attacking #20
« Reply #123 on: October 17, 2020, 03:42:25 PM »
Pointless anyway when you win a game and the officials decide they don't want you to win and ensure you don't.
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Re: Attacking #20
« Reply #124 on: October 17, 2020, 03:44:50 PM »
If Thiago and Ali are out for a while still that could be the difference between winning it again and not. I am assuming VVD is out for most of, if not all of the season.

If Thiago and Alisson come back in months rather than weeks, then I honestly do not believe we win number 20 this year, I think our spine is too disrupted for too long in that instance

Is it honestly the best time for your fear mongering? Itís hard to judge if youíre genuinely THAT pessimistic or if youíre just trying to wind people up, but neither is particularly admirable.
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Offline liverbnz

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Re: Attacking #20
« Reply #125 on: October 17, 2020, 03:45:58 PM »
We were in a Merseyside derby, itís still a tough game. We have more than enough quality in our side, unless people think the other 9 or 10 players are just some bargain basement footballer?

No. But football is a low scoring sport. You canít afford to concede goals from nearly every shot on goal and for the forwards to bail you out. Thatís not a recipe for winning the league. Defence was our strength for the vast majority of that 106 points out of 108 possible the last 2 years. Itís been a weakness since January really. And a VVD injury is an absolute game changer in my opinion.
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Re: Attacking #20
« Reply #126 on: October 17, 2020, 03:47:37 PM »
Is it honestly the best time for your fear mongering? Itís hard to judge if youíre genuinely THAT pessimistic or if youíre just trying to wind people up, but neither is particularly admirable.

He's called Stockholm Syndrome for a reason you fucker.  ;D

Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: Attacking #20
« Reply #127 on: October 17, 2020, 03:47:44 PM »
Pointless anyway when you win a game and the officials decide they don't want you to win and ensure you don't.

Today was exceptionally bad, but arguably poor officiating massively impacted the Villa game. No penalty for McGinn's challenge on Salah completely changed the course of the game.

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Re: Attacking #20
« Reply #128 on: October 17, 2020, 03:48:25 PM »
Thiago played on. VVD walked off. Alison making great progress. Let's not start jumping to conclusions. We have ten points from five games. Five tough games. Everton will take points off a lot of teams this season.

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Re: Attacking #20
« Reply #129 on: October 17, 2020, 03:48:46 PM »
Not the best start to the season. Poor defensively, unlucky with injuries and now to top it off the referees decide to pile more misery. Feel like any complacency will be purged right out of our system and weíll now go on a vengeful run.

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Re: Attacking #20
« Reply #130 on: October 17, 2020, 03:49:11 PM »
No. But football is a low scoring sport. You canít afford to concede goals from nearly every shot on goal and for the forwards to bail you out. Thatís not a recipe for winning the league. Defence was our strength for the vast majority of that 106 points out of 108 possible the last 2 years. Itís been a weakness since January really. And a VVD injury is an absolute game changer in my opinion.

Why do we need so many points to win a league? Is there another side as good as us?

Offline aw1991

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Re: Attacking #20
« Reply #131 on: October 17, 2020, 03:55:20 PM »
The game against Everton feels like it could be a deciding factor against our title challenge. 2 points dropped and and injuries to VVD and Thiago. If they are out for 2-3 months we could be 10 points behind the leaders in January and point at this exact game as one of the main reasons  :(
So be it. Long term injuries to 3 world class players (including Ali) is something no team could handle.

But let's just wait to see how the season unfolds. I don't think you'll a team as dominant as we were last season or City were the season before, so there is no need for every single point to be taken.

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Re: Attacking #20
« Reply #132 on: October 17, 2020, 03:55:46 PM »
Why do we need so many points to win a league? Is there another side as good as us?

Yup.
Itís going to be a much more normal total to win it this season given the fixture congestion etc - high 80s most likely
If you look at our start in that context itís really good - one odd loss, 3 really good wins and a point away in one of our tougher fixtures of the year

Weíre also the best team / squad in the league imo

Much more likely to be a marathon rather than the 38 game sprint itís been last two years

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Re: Attacking #20
« Reply #133 on: October 17, 2020, 03:56:31 PM »
Is it honestly the best time for your fear mongering? Itís hard to judge if youíre genuinely THAT pessimistic or if youíre just trying to wind people up, but neither is particularly admirable.

Tbf I've had a bit of a shitty day in general other than the match, so that's almost certainly playing a part in my pessimistic mindset too.

But I am genuinely worried about the core of the team if they are out for an extended period. It's 3 key players, if they are out for a while any team would be badly affected. I hope not, but that could have a really bad effect on our season.

We are weaker at the back and in the middle without them, so hopefully it isn't too long.

Offline Snusmumriken

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Re: Attacking #20
« Reply #134 on: October 17, 2020, 04:11:53 PM »
Yup.
Itís going to be a much more normal total to win it this season given the fixture congestion etc - high 80s most likely
If you look at our start in that context itís really good - one odd loss, 3 really good wins and a point away in one of our tougher fixtures of the year

Weíre also the best team / squad in the league imo

Much more likely to be a marathon rather than the 38 game sprint itís been last two years

Agree that 10 points from our first 5 isn't terrible in any way, even though the manner of how we lost points today is really frustrating. Our bad luck with injuries to very important players could see us having quite a gap to make up for in that marathon once we're back to our best though. Let's just hope we can stick in it and have a bit more "luck" with refs and injuries for the next few games.

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Re: Attacking #20
« Reply #135 on: October 17, 2020, 04:14:43 PM »
Thiago played on. VVD walked off. Alison making great progress. Let's not start jumping to conclusions. We have ten points from five games. Five tough games. Everton will take points off a lot of teams this season.

Good point mate (not the draw today, your point  ;D) - It's been a tough start to the season. Of course today we were robbed and the Villa result was beyond bad, but it hasn't really been a particularly easy start.
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Offline Ghost Town

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Re: Attacking #20
« Reply #136 on: October 18, 2020, 02:34:28 AM »
Hopefully these setbacks, if they happen, will make the rest of the squad even more determined.

Are we finishing our chances as well as we could, though? I don't know what the stats say, and I'm an advocate of stats so try not to argue against them, but just from watching it seems that among the normal and expected amount of missed opportunities (that all clubs tend to experience in a game) there tend to be one or two each game that we really should be doing better with.
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Re: Attacking #20
« Reply #137 on: October 18, 2020, 02:52:29 AM »
A flurry of setbacks either side of a long and irritating international break has made the season feel a bit more in jeopardy than it actually is, the only teams having a hot streak are mid-table sides that will fall away soon enough, and the potential competitors for the title are all having their own issues. Losing van Dijk and Alisson sucks but the latter will hopefully be back soon and Thiago and Jota are huge additions. Our squad depth will hopefully allow us to really dominate teams once the rigours of the schedule start to kick in more. Hopefully we rotate hard for the CL games, especially as our group shouldn't be too intense.

Offline jckliew

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Re: Attacking #20
« Reply #138 on: October 18, 2020, 02:57:32 AM »
Biggest setback is the loss of our core defenders who has improved the defence to the CL and PL titles. That is the challenge.
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Re: Attacking #20
« Reply #139 on: October 18, 2020, 03:46:46 AM »
It will be even sweeter if we do it.

It's open, and we still got quality players.

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Re: Attacking #20
« Reply #140 on: October 18, 2020, 07:07:59 AM »
I slept through the 4-0. Was sick of staying up watching kompany score that goal.

Decided never to give up on this team again. If thereís a group that can still win this, itís the mentality monsters.

Expecting the worst for Van Dijk, but hoping Thiago and Allison will be okay soon. If so, then we are stocked in midfield and Fab gives us another option in defence. Work with that till Jan then see where we are.

Wonít be a cake walk anymore, but thatíll make the win even sweeter.
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Re: Attacking #20
« Reply #141 on: October 18, 2020, 07:42:12 AM »
Annoying we have City away coming up relatively soon when we may still be hampered with these injuries.

But weíre still favourites in my view. Win the games youíd expect us to and weíll be right up there. Weíre not going to see a ridiculous  points tally from anyone this year I think. Once we get our heads around that, the easier it is to accept weíre in a handy position with a couple of nice looking home games to come.

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Re: Attacking #20
« Reply #142 on: October 18, 2020, 10:04:37 AM »
I think people forget what our (years of) form was like pre VVD. He is that good and will make a huge difference in both penalty boxes. If he is out for the season City are definitely favourites. 
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Re: Attacking #20
« Reply #143 on: October 18, 2020, 10:22:32 AM »
I think people forget what our (years of) form was like pre VVD. He is that good and will make a huge difference in both penalty boxes. If he is out for the season City are definitely favourites. 

Iím not forgetting. But in that half season before he joined and we still didnít have Alisson we were still comfortably top 4. Other top sidesí levels have dropped off since then. We actually beat City in that 4-3 game without Virgil.

Losing him for a long period of time is a huge blow and I think weíll have to accept it will probably mean a few silly dropped points along the way but I think weíre fortunate in that respect that itís happened this season when it feels like you wonít need mid 90 points to win the League.

Offline PeterTheRed

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Re: Attacking #20
« Reply #144 on: October 18, 2020, 10:25:18 AM »
I think people forget what our (years of) form was like pre VVD. He is that good and will make a huge difference in both penalty boxes. If he is out for the season City are definitely favourites. 

Losing Van Dijk would be a big blow for us, but to be honest, Man City are not the team they were couple of seasons ago. The title this season will be won by 80-85 points ...

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Re: Attacking #20
« Reply #145 on: October 18, 2020, 10:32:40 AM »
VVD is like City losing Laporte - the defence is not the same unit at all. Ultimately this was going to happen at some point, we all feared it, but in this manner with no consequence for Pickford really takes the piss.

We can't change it now.
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Re: Attacking #20
« Reply #146 on: October 18, 2020, 10:34:30 AM »
Iím not forgetting. But in that half season before he joined and we still didnít have Alisson we were still comfortably top 4. Other top sidesí levels have dropped off since then. We actually beat City in that 4-3 game without Virgil.

Losing him for a long period of time is a huge blow and I think weíll have to accept it will probably mean a few silly dropped points along the way but I think weíre fortunate in that respect that itís happened this season when it feels like you wonít need mid 90 points to win the League.
Also, we were a very different squad/first 11 the season before that so it's hard to really compare (and that side finished on 76 points)

Probably just repeating your second point here  :D losing him for the season, if that is the case, makes us worse, same with Alison being out, or say if Salah went down, but we're still a very good team without them. And very good teams challenge for and win trophies. You don't always need to be playing like one of the greatest sides ever to win stuff.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2020, 10:39:13 AM by Chris~ »

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Re: Attacking #20
« Reply #147 on: October 18, 2020, 10:46:40 AM »
VVD is like City losing Laporte - the defence is not the same unit at all. Ultimately this was going to happen at some point, we all feared it, but in this manner with no consequence for Pickford really takes the piss.

We can't change it now.

People seem resistant to this idea but the gap between our number 1 and 2 to our 2 and 3 as partnerships is the best in the league and way better then Cityís
We also have a better keeper and better DMs

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Re: Attacking #20
« Reply #148 on: October 18, 2020, 10:48:55 AM »
VVD is like City losing Laporte - the defence is not the same unit at all. Ultimately this was going to happen at some point, we all feared it, but in this manner with no consequence for Pickford really takes the piss.

We can't change it now.

Laporte is not as good or as influential for them and at the same time Stones and Otamendi are nowhere near the quality of Gomez and Matip.

Once we get Alisson back and we can get that midfield settled as a squad then we will be absolutely fine.

Gomez and Matip make up two of the best 5 centrebacks in the league.

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Re: Attacking #20
« Reply #149 on: October 18, 2020, 10:49:16 AM »
I think people forget what our (years of) form was like pre VVD. He is that good and will make a huge difference in both penalty boxes. If he is out for the season City are definitely favourites.

loads has changed since then though, incredible mentality, better midfield, lightyears better in goal etc etc. Of course he's a big miss but we are still better than everyone else in every single area even without him. Though if our games continue to be officiated like yesterday and at Villa then yeah, there's little chance of us winning the league regardless of how well we play.

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Re: Attacking #20
« Reply #150 on: October 18, 2020, 10:54:30 AM »
The last couple of seasons have distorted peoples' idea of a normal season or how titles are typically won. Almost 100 points isn't normal, practically sealing the title before spring has arrived is even more bizarre. Last season everythin went our way. We were fantastic and had hardly any injuries and were a bit lucky at times. This year we'll clearly have to fight for it.

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Re: Attacking #20
« Reply #151 on: October 18, 2020, 11:19:20 AM »
Even if VVD is out, we can still win the title. I'd expect us to probably be more like Liverpool of old in that we score a ton, but concede lots too, which to be fair, we have been doing even with VVD.

Without him, our defence isn't elite, but everywhere else on the pitch is. And that's still good enough to challenge for everything.

On the brightside, if we do win the league and/or CL, or get close - nobody can cry that we got lucky with injuries or VAR anymore after yesterday.

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Re: Attacking #20
« Reply #152 on: October 18, 2020, 11:21:03 AM »
Even if VVD is out, we can still win the title. I'd expect us to probably be more like Liverpool of old in that we score a ton, but concede lots too, which to be fair, we have been doing even with VVD.

Without him, our defence isn't elite, but everywhere else on the pitch is. And that's still good enough to challenge for everything.

On the brightside, if we do win the league and/or CL, or get close - nobody can cry that we got lucky with injuries or VAR anymore after yesterday.

I think defending set pieces will be an issue. But Matip returning is a big deal also and Allison is back soon.

Offline PeterTheRed

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Re: Attacking #20
« Reply #153 on: October 18, 2020, 11:24:18 AM »
I think that the absence of Van Dijk will prompt Klopp of tweaking our system a bit, with 2 of Matip/Gomez/Fabinho playing in central defence, and 2 of Fabinho/Henderson/Thiago as a double pivot in front of them. It would be crucial if Thiago is also not absent for too long, so we can keep our tactical flexibility ...

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Re: Attacking #20
« Reply #154 on: October 18, 2020, 04:59:53 PM »
Laporte is not as good or as influential for them and at the same time Stones and Otamendi are nowhere near the quality of Gomez and Matip.

Once we get Alisson back and we can get that midfield settled as a squad then we will be absolutely fine.

Gomez and Matip make up two of the best 5 centrebacks in the league.
Bookies disagree. City almost odds on to win the title. We're out to almost 3/1. Crazy market overreaction to Spurs winning a couple of games. Very clear third favourites at less than 7/1  :o Everton fourth favs at 26/1 while Chelsea are 29/1 and United at 37/1.

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Re: Attacking #20
« Reply #155 on: October 18, 2020, 05:10:37 PM »
Bookies disagree. City almost odds on to win the title. We're out to almost 3/1. Crazy market overreaction to Spurs winning a couple of games. Very clear third favourites at less than 7/1  :o Everton fourth favs at 26/1 while Chelsea are 29/1 and United at 37/1.

Laughable odds.

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Re: Attacking #20
« Reply #156 on: October 18, 2020, 05:15:20 PM »
Bookies disagree. City almost odds on to win the title. We're out to almost 3/1. Crazy market overreaction to Spurs winning a couple of games. Very clear third favourites at less than 7/1  :o Everton fourth favs at 26/1 while Chelsea are 29/1 and United at 37/1.

The bookies protect themselves with City. We were close to odds on after City lost to Leicester. The bookies put City in as favourites to win the CL every single year and they've never had to pay out on that yet.


It's a bit of a carousel of hype/bookies buying the hype/bettor buying the hype/bookies protecting themselves.

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Re: Attacking #20
« Reply #157 on: October 18, 2020, 05:18:42 PM »
Laughable odds.
Agreed. After most teams have played 5 games, it is all a bit nuts.

The bookies protect themselves with City. We were close to odds on after City lost to Leicester. The bookies put City in as favourites to win the CL every single year and they've never had to pay out on that yet.


It's a bit of a carousel of hype/bookies buying the hype/bettor buying the hype/bookies protecting themselves.
Also lots of mugs backing City to win those competitions. The Spurs odds right now are a monster punter overreaction to them winning a few games by big scores. We have already lost 10 players to the virus or injuries. Okay most are a few weeks out here and there but even so, that kind of injury run would bury Spurs, and probably City. Any other team as well.

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Re: Attacking #20
« Reply #158 on: October 18, 2020, 05:33:44 PM »
If we didn't sign Thiago, i would say with the injuries we have, we would have struggled to win the league.

He's a game changer though.

Any loss we suffer at the back with Van Dijk, will be neutralised with what Thiago will bring to our attack. Our chance creation is going to step up a further level with him in our XI.

We have been great the last few seasons as an attacking force, but it has always seemed very efficient and machine like with the make-up of our midfield. A little bit of football has now come into the team. Our passing combinations are far better and that is only after a few games of him in the side. He'll be more aware to the patterns and movements of his teammates in the months to come.

If we can get 30 league games out of him, we will take some stopping up top. Defensively we will have our issues but we'll get by. Allison will be back in a few weeks. Fabinho will get games at CB and will surprise many of our own fans and neutrals out there.

I think 85 points will do it. So we need to make sure we up it from here as 10 points from 5 games isn't the rate we need to be going at. Our aim has to be to win 4 out of our next 5 and then we can start going on a roll from there.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2020, 05:39:36 PM by Pradan »

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Re: Attacking #20
« Reply #159 on: October 18, 2020, 05:58:40 PM »
I donít bet on Liverpool the emotional ups and downs are enough - but us at nearly 3/1 is an incredible bet / price