Topic: Brexit. the Con continues

[PaulF]

Prices shoot up. Margin stays the same. More cash in multi millionaire pockets though.......

[oldfordie]

Prices shoot up. Margin stays the same. More cash in multi millionaire pockets though.......

Weatherspoon's profits have plummeted since we left the EU, down 91% this year .

[rob1966]

Weatherspoon's profits have plummeted since we left the EU, down 91% this year .

Mates son works in the local one to us while he is at Uni, its £1.89 for a pint of bitter, something like £3.20 for a Guinness, under £4 for a brekkie, dunno how they make money with prices like that.

His American girlfriend came over from Seattle for Christmas, c*nts basically forced extra shifts on him as they cannot get staff. I assume across the country its lack of staff that is killing footfall?

[PaulF]

Weatherspoon's profits have plummeted since we left the EU, down 91% this year .

That's encouraging. I must admit I thought they were doing OK.

[oldfordie]

That's encouraging. I must admit I thought they were doing OK.

Imagine they will survive just as many other UK companies will as well but it's hardly something to brag about, I thought Brexit was about making things better rather than surviving, it's this Knighthood he's getting for Brexit, he's made trading far worse for UK companies yet the Torys make him a Sir. it's a joke.
EDIT, Only have to look at the people who campaigned for Brexit, they all want to treat their workforce like shit, getting rid of workers rights etc was a dream come true,  none give a toss about the UK.

[rob1966]

Imagine they will survive just as many other UK companies will as well but it's hardly something to brag about, I thought Brexit was about making things better rather than surviving, it's this Knighthood he's getting for Brexit, he's made trading far worse for UK companies yet the Torys make him a Sir. it's a joke.
EDIT, Only have to look at the people who campaigned for Brexit, they all want to treat their workforce like shit, getting rid of workers rights etc was a dream come true,  none give a toss about the UK.

He thought he could bring in workers and pay them £3 an hour IIRC

[oldfordie]

He thought he could bring in workers and pay them £3 an hour IIRC

Yep, they kept banging on about the glorious opportunity's brexit brought, problem is leave supporters assumed they were good for them and never questioned what those glorious opportunity's were.
2 loudest mouths for Brexit, Dyson and Martin both screwed their workforce big time.
I still think making Brexit a issue now is playing into the Torys hands though, get the election won and it's a different ball game, the Torys can make Brexit a issue then if they want.

[Robinred]

He thought he could bring in workers and pay them £3 an hour IIRC

Migrant workers, immigration, refugees:- all subjects that fuelled the Brexit debate and result. This is excellent from a Dutch professor and debunks some myths, but also poses some fundamental questions:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/29/politicians-immigration-wrong-cheap-labour?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

[oldfordie]

Migrant workers, immigration, refugees:- all subjects that fuelled the Brexit debate and result. This is excellent from a Dutch professor and debunks some myths, but also poses some fundamental questions:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/29/politicians-immigration-wrong-cheap-labour?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Interesting article, a lot to think about, first reaction is migration  remaining at 3% is hard to believe. it could be misleading as well, how many people who want to migrate and how many people manage to succeed are 2 different things. I would think the amount of people who want to migrate is far higher than 3%.

I remember a few tv documentary's going back over 20yrs, they showed our government were quiet happy with illegal workers working in hospitality etc, hotels full of immigrants working for peanuts, reason is obvious, paying UK workers a decent wage would result in higher hotel charges and less profits.
It's not really about governments recognising a problem, they knew immegration pushed down wages, they were happy to turn a blind eye to it until it became a political issue.

[rob1966]

Weatherspoon's profits have plummeted since we left the EU, down 91% this year .

Out of interest I looked and they look back on the way to being healthy, sales of £1.9bn, profits of £42million after tax, in 2014 it was £37m.

[oldfordie]

Out of interest I looked and they look back on the way to being healthy, sales of £1.9bn, profits of £42million after tax, in 2014 it was £37m.

Yeah but I don't think that proves he did his company any favours fighting for Brexit. he created a lot of resentment towards his company which lost them thousands if not 10s thousands of customers. ok his company was strong enough to survive this loss. many others couldn't.

[JohnnoWhite]

Yep, they kept banging on about the glorious opportunity's brexit brought, problem is leave supporters assumed they were good for them and never questioned what those glorious opportunity's were.
2 loudest mouths for Brexit, Dyson and Martin both screwed their workforce big time.
I still think making Brexit a issue now is playing into the Torys hands though, get the election won and it's a different ball game, the Torys can make Brexit a issue then if they want.

Saddest bit is incoming, we get a carefully cultivated wet blanket Establishment plant whose father was a toolmaker doncha know?? Oh and Abstarmer always forgets when eulogising his dad to clearly state his dad OWNED the bloody factory.

[rob1966]

Yeah but I don't think that proves he did his company any favours fighting for Brexit. he created a lot of resentment towards his company which lost them thousands if not 10s thousands of customers. ok his company was strong enough to survive this loss. many others couldn't.

No, he deffo didn't, I think he's just extremely lucky that the pandemic and the cost of living crisis has pushed customers his way, its hard for pubs and independent bars to compete when they're selling a brekkie for £3.50, burger and a pint for about £8 (Yatesies by St Johns is about £9 for that deal), bitters for under £2, lager under £3 and under £4 for guinness, I pay over a flim for a Guinness where we drink, bitter drinkers are getting 5 pints for what I pay for 2, Guinness is basically 3 for 2

[TSC]

Yeah but I don't think that proves he did his company any favours fighting for Brexit. he created a lot of resentment towards his company which lost them thousands if not 10s thousands of customers. ok his company was strong enough to survive this loss. many others couldn't.

Brexit def had a negative impact on his company although he denied it of course

https://news.sky.com/story/wetherspoons-founder-tim-martin-plays-down-role-of-brexit-in-beer-shortages-at-pubs-12397762

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57314682

[oldfordie]

No, he deffo didn't, I think he's just extremely lucky that the pandemic and the cost of living crisis has pushed customers his way, its hard for pubs and independent bars to compete when they're selling a brekkie for £3.50, burger and a pint for about £8 (Yatesies by St Johns is about £9 for that deal), bitters for under £2, lager under £3 and under £4 for guinness, I pay over a flim for a Guinness where we drink, bitter drinkers are getting 5 pints for what I pay for 2, Guinness is basically 3 for 2

Yeah, I think the main driving force behind Martins support for Brexit was the same as all the other idiots who hated the EUs protectionism.., it was all about taking away the rights of workers so they could treat them like dirt while paying them buttons for them, low tax also played a part. they considered the EU as a pain in the ass, stopping them from doing whatever they want. they could never campaign for their real reasons for wanting Brexit, it's the reason why they all had to tell so many lies. back to the original point on Martin receiving a knighthood he didn't deserve. nobody can argue his support for Brexit made him a good businessman. IMO he was given this knighthood in the hope it caused outrage, the Torys want people to attack them over this so they can get Brexit back in the spotlight before the GE.

[rob1966]

Yeah, I think the main driving force behind Martins support for Brexit was the same as all the other idiots who hated the EUs protectionism.., it was all about taking away the rights of workers so they could treat them like dirt while paying them buttons for them, low tax also played a part. they considered the EU as a pain in the ass, stopping them from doing whatever they want. they could never campaign for their real reasons for wanting Brexit, it's the reason why they all had to tell so many lies. back to the original point on Martin receiving a knighthood he didn't deserve. nobody can argue his support for Brexit made him a good businessman. IMO he was given this knighthood in the hope it caused outrage, the Torys want people to attack them over this so they can get Brexit back in the spotlight before the GE.

Best thing to do is ignore all the fluff and attack them on the things that people care about, cost of energy, lack of housing, state of the NHS , that type of thing that people care about

[oldfordie]

Best thing to do is ignore all the fluff and attack them on the things that people care about, cost of energy, lack of housing, state of the NHS , that type of thing that people care about

Yep, I think everyone's united on that one. not everyone has the same opinion on how we move forward on Brexit though so why give the Torys a break and allow them to influence the issues that will decide how people vote come the election. 
 

[rob1966]

Yep, I think everyone's united on that one. not everyone has the same opinion on how we move forward on Brexit though so why give the Torys a break and allow them to influence the issues that will decide how people vote come the election. 
 

Brexit is like the weird family member you know exists but no-one speaks about.

Personally I'm shut the fuck up until the election is won and then slowly build closer ties in a way that improves peoples lives - if the polls are to be believed, most leavers regret it and as the youngsters pass voting age and the inward looking ones die off, there will be more and more of a clamour to rebuild our ties, there's millions of kids who will be fucking fuming about what was robbed from them by a generation on its last legs, my eldest certainly is as its made his options for becoming a pilot harder.

[oldfordie]

Brexit is like the weird family member you know exists but no-one speaks about.

Personally I'm shut the fuck up until the election is won and then slowly build closer ties in a way that improves peoples lives - if the polls are to be believed, most leavers regret it and as the youngsters pass voting age and the inward looking ones die off, there will be more and more of a clamour to rebuild our ties, there's millions of kids who will be fucking fuming about what was robbed from them by a generation on its last legs, my eldest certainly is as its made his options for becoming a pilot harder.

Exactly how I look at it as well. the leave MPs etc will start screaming when Labour agree to closer ties, that will mean agreeing to EU regulations. the d/heads will argue we might as well be back in the EU, thats great as far as am concerened, Labour are in power and people will decide if we are better off with a closer relationship. as you say they already believe this now.

Either am out of touch or the ERG Bruge group old men are but this is something I would keep quiet about if I was a leave campaigner. I expect it to backfire on the Tory old men still stuck in the past.
I can't say am all high tech but ive got all sorts of different charger leads, got a bag full of them I won't throw away as am not sure if they are for something I hardly use much now. a uniform charger seems a great idea to me. I can't see the Bruges group wining much support for Brexit campaigning against it.


Bruges Group 🇬🇧
@BrugesGroup
The EU’s common charger directive is far from brilliant.

It means that if a manufacturer comes up with a charger which is quicker and/or more robust, they can’t sell it.

All the self-proclaimed “regulatory superpower” is doing is stifling innovation.
Quote
Will Hutton
@williamnhutton
·
23h
Reality check for all Brexiters. The EU is launching a common charger for all digital devices - a brilliant cost saving initiative. Does Britain follow the “dead hand” of the EU? Or create our own expensive system as a Brexit freedom? The EU common charger https://europa.eu/!hwjj3G
https://twitter.com/BrugesGroup/status/1741171980907278489

[Lusty]

Exactly how I look at it as well. the leave MPs etc will start screaming when Labour agree to closer ties, that will mean agreeing to EU regulations. the d/heads will argue we might as well be back in the EU, thats great as far as am concerened, Labour are in power and people will decide if we are better off with a closer relationship. as you say they already believe this now.

Either am out of touch or the ERG Bruge group old men are but this is something I would keep quiet about if I was a leave campaigner. I expect it to backfire on the Tory old men still stuck in the past.
I can't say am all high tech but ive got all sorts of different charger leads, got a bag full of them I won't throw away as am not sure if they are for something I hardly use much now. a uniform charger seems a great idea to me. I can't see the Bruges group wining much support for Brexit campaigning against it.


Bruges Group 🇬🇧
@BrugesGroup
The EU’s common charger directive is far from brilliant.

It means that if a manufacturer comes up with a charger which is quicker and/or more robust, they can’t sell it.

All the self-proclaimed “regulatory superpower” is doing is stifling innovation.
Quote
Will Hutton
@williamnhutton
·
23h
Reality check for all Brexiters. The EU is launching a common charger for all digital devices - a brilliant cost saving initiative. Does Britain follow the “dead hand” of the EU? Or create our own expensive system as a Brexit freedom? The EU common charger https://europa.eu/!hwjj3G
https://twitter.com/BrugesGroup/status/1741171980907278489

Apple make quite a lot of money through licensing their proprietary connector, so they've spent quite a lot of money lobbying against the EU rules on this. I expect some of that lobbying money has made it to the Bruges group.

[rob1966]

^

yep, idiots downplaying the benefits and twisting things to suit their own agenda. We've got USB A/B, USB - C, 3 different apple chargers at home, its a royal PITA, one common standard port reduces costs, pointless manufacture etc, it's a welcome inititiative.

[oldfordie]

Apple make quite a lot of money through licensing their proprietary connector, so they've spent quite a lot of money lobbying against the EU rules on this. I expect some of that lobbying money has made it to the Bruges group.

^

yep, idiots downplaying the benefits and twisting things to suit their own agenda. We've got USB A/B, USB - C, 3 different apple chargers at home, its a royal PITA, one common standard port reduces costs, pointless manufacture etc, it's a welcome initiative.

I imagine your right about Apple etc lobbying against a common charger, best the ERG can come up with against this is it stops a more robust charger being sold, what a load of b..., manufacturers can make the chargers as robust as they want just as long as the connection conforms to the standard.

We have no say on the matter now anyway. we will have to follow what the EU brings in, so will all the major manufacturers. it actually highlights one of the reasons why the ERG etc fanatics wanted Brexit, all about them having the freedom to do as they please, in this case rip off consumers by forcing them to pay for something they don't need.

[redbyrdz]

Its typical Brexit pie in the sky combined with scaremongering. Pretending that there is something better (that doesn't exist yet) and that somehow, if there was, the EU would ban it. Neither is reality - there is no better charger out there, and if there was, perhaps the EU would also adapt that one? In the meantime, actual, the current situation improving, progress is being talk down. Charger norms are good for consumers and industry, and the environment. Nobody wants the piles of propriatary chargers we have right now. If something better is inventend, we, and the EU can re-evaluate at that point of time.


(Also as a note - afaik this is mostly about the plug. The EU say that all new portable devices have to be able to charge via a USB-C plug (the small new usb one). Afaik there are exceptions (of course), for example wearables where that would be impractical, such as wireless headphones.)

[stoa]

(Also as a note - afaik this is mostly about the plug. The EU say that all new portable devices have to be able to charge via a USB-C plug (the small new usb one). Afaik there are exceptions (of course), for example wearables where that would be impractical, such as wireless headphones.)

That's the problem with stuff like what the ERG has come out with. It makes sense on the surface and a lot of people will be happy with that. I'm not completely clueless about computers, phones or various connection types, but that statement about "what if there's a better charger" made me google, if that's actually a valid point. While I knew that this was simply about the connector (USB-C), I could still have seen this make some sense, if there's suddenly a new connection type that's way better for charging or whatever. Googling showed that it could easily enough become a different standard, if there was a better one, but more importantly that USB-C is basically the best solution at the moment and still has potential.

It's a bit like the bendy banana stuff. That sounds ridiculous at first, but at the end of the day, it's not about banana's being too bendy, but more about having set standards, so everyone is on the same page whether it's in Spain or in Sweden.

[oldfordie]

That's the problem with stuff like what the ERG has come out with. It makes sense on the surface and a lot of people will be happy with that. I'm not completely clueless about computers, phones or various connection types, but that statement about "what if there's a better charger" made me google, if that's actually a valid point. While I knew that this was simply about the connector (USB-C), I could still have seen this make some sense, if there's suddenly a new connection type that's way better for charging or whatever. Googling showed that it could easily enough become a different standard, if there was a better one, but more importantly that USB-C is basically the best solution at the moment and still has potential.

It's a bit like the bendy banana stuff. That sounds ridiculous at first, but at the end of the day, it's not about banana's being too bendy, but more about having set standards, so everyone is on the same page whether it's in Spain or in Sweden.

How will a different connector make the connectors far more better for charging? am no expert but it's the technology that will improve charging times etc not the connector. I think the only game change will be when they develop a system that does away with connectors, that is years down the line and am sure the EU will be fine with it as long as it helps consumers.

[stoa]

How will a different connector make the connectors far more better for charging? am no expert but it's the technology that will improve charging times etc not the connector. I think the only game change will be when they develop a system that does away with connectors, that is years down the line and am sure the EU will be fine with it as long as it helps consumers.

No expert either, but my thinking was that there could be a charger (charging method) that doesn't work on a USB-C connection, because it needs different wiring or is somehow not compatible with USB-C for whatever reason. It seems, that that's not an issue though.

[Jiminy Cricket]

How will a different connector make the connectors far more better for charging? am no expert but it's the technology that will improve charging times etc not the connector. I think the only game change will be when they develop a system that does away with connectors, that is years down the line and am sure the EU will be fine with it as long as it helps consumers.

I've not read the ins and outs of the legislation, but as I understand it, it is about avoiding unnecessary proprietary connectors which are inconvenient and expensive. Think of things like HiFi systems and what they would be like if each manufacturer had their own connectors. When it comes to phones and computers, the worst offender, of course, is Apple.

[oldfordie]

I've not read the ins and outs of the legislation, but as I understand it, it is about avoiding unnecessary proprietary connectors which are inconvenient and expensive. Think of things like HiFi systems and what they would be like if each manufacturer had their own connectors. When it comes to phones and computers, the worst offender, of course, is Apple.

Exactly. They would have different wall plugs if they could get away with it.
It's not even just about being forced to buy something you shouldn't need, am certain ive got a lot of connectors for stuff ive thrown away.

[PaulF]

Connectors will vanish fairly soon as we go 'wireless'. Also, I assume you can have the bestest ever connector as long as you are backward compatible.

[rob1966]

Connectors will vanish fairly soon as we go 'wireless'. Also, I assume you can have the bestest ever connector as long as you are backward compatible.

You'll still have them for years yet, there are loads of uses that a wireless charger is impractical on - things like charging phones in cars while using them, on trains, planes etc. I've seen the wireless charger/phone holders and you still need to plug the charging pad into a USB port in the car, so why bother getting a wireless pad, its just more needless shite for Chinese manufacturers to make. In fact, why the fuck do we need wireless pads at all, aren't they just anothet gimmick and more damage to the environment?

On holiday, I take a single wall plug, then I plug an adapter in that has 4 USB connections and we pile the phones on the worktop/whereever they're charging, dont want to be taking a big pad to fit 4 phones on.

[stoa]

There's also the question of efficiency. Wireless charging is less efficient than using a cable. It's not that big an issue looking at the individual device, but loads of devices are all adding up and I'm not sure that's something we should be pushing for on a large scale. So, I'd rather keep cable-charging for the devices where it makes sense and "wireless" for cases where it is absolutely necessary.

[west_london_red]

Could there be a better connector than USB C? Yes, there probably could be but what benefit would it serve? The connector serves two purposes, data and power and the data rates on USB C are incredibly high at 10GBps and power at up to 240w which is more then enough for the foreseeable future, and anything more then that and you’d have to look at re-wiring your house!

[thaddeus]

Could there be a better connector than USB C? Yes, there probably could be but what benefit would it serve? The connector serves two purposes, data and power and the data rates on USB C are incredibly high at 10GBps and power at up to 240w which is more then enough for the foreseeable future, and anything more then that and you’d have to look at re-wiring your house!

It's certainly a weird hill for the ERG cranks to die on.  I'm sure somebody in the future could produce a cable that is backwards compatible with USB-C but could support higher data transfer and charging rates.

We've always avoided Apple devices due to their closed ecosystem but my eldest won an iPad at the LFC Christmas raffle.  In hindsight we should have just flogged it and given him the cash but he's adopted it as his primary device and he likes telling people how he came to have it.  We now have to have extra cables plugged in just for that and for me to verify any of his app store purchases I would need to have my own Apple device (the same mechanism on Android can be verified via email from any device).  Any legislation that opens up their ecosystem is welcome from me.

[PaulF]

You'll still have them for years yet, there are loads of uses that a wireless charger is impractical on - things like charging phones in cars while using them, on trains, planes etc. I've seen the wireless charger/phone holders and you still need to plug the charging pad into a USB port in the car, so why bother getting a wireless pad, its just more needless shite for Chinese manufacturers to make. In fact, why the fuck do we need wireless pads at all, aren't they just anothet gimmick and more damage to the environment?

On holiday, I take a single wall plug, then I plug an adapter in that has 4 USB connections and we pile the phones on the worktop/whereever they're charging, dont want to be taking a big pad to fit 4 phones on.

I think people like wireless as it's tidier. It's already available on trains. I'm not advocating it particulary. But as people are saying , it's a weird hill to die on.

[thejbs]

Could there be a better connector than USB C? Yes, there probably could be but what benefit would it serve? The connector serves two purposes, data and power and the data rates on USB C are incredibly high at 10GBps and power at up to 240w which is more then enough for the foreseeable future, and anything more then that and you’d have to look at re-wiring your house!

Thunderbolt 3/4 -20gbps
USB4 V2 - 40-80gbps

They’re all backwards compatible with usbC but significantly faster and more capable. As long as the connector stays physically the same it won’t affect things vis-a-vis this legislation, even if they require different cables to fully unleash their power.

[thejbs]

It's certainly a weird hill for the ERG cranks to die on.  I'm sure somebody in the future could produce a cable that is backwards compatible with USB-C but could support higher data transfer and charging rates.

We've always avoided Apple devices due to their closed ecosystem but my eldest won an iPad at the LFC Christmas raffle.  In hindsight we should have just flogged it and given him the cash but he's adopted it as his primary device and he likes telling people how he came to have it.  We now have to have extra cables plugged in just for that and for me to verify any of his app store purchases I would need to have my own Apple device (the same mechanism on Android can be verified via email from any device).  Any legislation that opens up their ecosystem is welcome from me.

All current iPads are USBC. Many models have been for a few years - I had one with usbC back in 2018/19.

[reddebs]

What's USBC?

[PaulF]

What's USBC?

It a the slightly rounded connector for usb.
And, trying hard not to sound patronising, it's the third iteration, after usb a and usb b.
I think there may have been USB b1. 1
Usb was the huge fat socket. Then I think b was smaller. C seems slightly smaller but it's the rounded corners.
Technically I'm sure theres loads more to it but that's all I need to know.

[reddebs]

It a the slightly rounded connector for usb.
And, trying hard not to sound patronising, it's the third iteration, after usb a and usb b.
I think there may have been USB b1. 1
Usb was the huge fat socket. Then I think b was smaller. C seems slightly smaller but it's the rounded corners.
Technically I'm sure theres loads more to it but that's all I need to know.

For what though? 

Downloading files onto like a mini harddrive? 

Or the port you plug into?

[Elmo!]

For what though? 

Downloading files onto like a mini harddrive? 

Or the port you plug into?

It's the new standard for basically all new electrical devices - laptops, phones, tablets etc. All of them now must use that for charging, but the same port and cable can be used for data as well as power.

Even iPhones will start using them so every single phone will have the exact same cable for charging.