Author Topic: COVID-19: General Stuff. VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE  (Read 826853 times)

Offline Wabaloolah

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Offline west_london_red

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Absolutely, I'll get it as soon as I can.

There is some misunderstanding of the timings of these vaccines and that this one has been 'sped up', implying they are cutting corners on safety. Much of the reason behind why this will be produced quicker than previous vaccines is because there will be no pause between each development step and development will move straight to manufacture (in fact for the Oxford one, they have already begun the manufacture steps). That reduces the time taken by a huge amount - setting up the facilities to manufacture the vaccine can take a long time and usually there would be a long pause between getting your positive trial results and beginning manufacture and then scaling it up. Those are the parts that will be sped up, the usual tests for efficacy and safety will all still be done - just like any other vaccine - they won't be cutting corners on safety.

Having said all that, I wouldn't be lining up to take the vaccine they plan to roll out on the Chinese military. The above only applies to those that are publishing the data from each part of each trial along the development path.

Thank you for the detailed explanation, makes perfect senses.

Offline LanceLink!!!!!

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We've all used Worldometers to track Coronavirus data, but has anyone seen this part of their website? Amazing and scary numbers.

https://www.worldometers.info/





Offline UntouchableLuis

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We've all used Worldometers to track Coronavirus data, but has anyone seen this part of their website? Amazing and scary numbers.

https://www.worldometers.info/






How do they possibly measure things like how many cigarettes are smoked a day and money spent on illegal drugs?
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Offline So... Howard Phillips

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With three mass outbreaks in meat plants (Anglesey, Wrexham and Keighley), a lesser outbreak at Mini in Oxford and the rumoured spread in Leicester through clothing factories it'll be interesting to see how long the HSE can maintain their laissez faire attitude and get back to acting like Factory Inspectors and improve safe working conditions.

Offline So... Howard Phillips

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How do they possibly measure things like how many cigarettes are smoked a day and money spent on illegal drugs?

Nearly as many obese people as undernourished people!

Offline LanceLink!!!!!

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Over 5.5 million dead from hunger so far this year, that's what got me. Half a million from Covid suddenly seems insignificant. It's not a Western problem though, so it won't be on our news.

Offline Currywurst

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The benefits seemed marginal based on my amateur understanding of the improvement it made.

But, I would point out that most countries will do the same in terms of trying to help their own people first if they find a treatment or vaccine, the French tried doing the same with a vaccine Sanofi is working on when the company said it would give the US the first load of the vaccine they were working on because the US had funded the research, and even with the Oxford vaccine the UK is getting 30 million of the first 100 million doses - yes that still leaves 70 million for somewhere else but 70 million isn’t a lot in a world with 7 billion people.

I see that Gilead is charging $3,100 for a 5-day course. And that they want to keep the price low so that poorer countries can afford it! No question of any profiteering, then.

And the only established benefit is that it reduces the duration of the infection by a couple of days in serious cases, so maybe the US is welcome to hang on to it at that price.
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Offline Dr. Beaker

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We've all used Worldometers to track Coronavirus data, but has anyone seen this part of their website? Amazing and scary numbers.

https://www.worldometers.info/





Looks like about 2,000 tons of CO2 emitted every second. :o
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I see that Gilead is charging $3,100 for a 5-day course. And that they want to keep the price low so that poorer countries can afford it! No question of any profiteering, then.

And the only established benefit is that it reduces the duration of the infection by a couple of days in serious cases, so maybe the US is welcome to hang on to it at that price.

Don't underestimate reducing the duration of it by a couple of days, that frees up so many ventilators and ITU beds over the course of time it would save thousands of lives.

Thank you for the detailed explanation, makes perfect senses.

It's also not a new vaccine and is one that they've been working on for near a decade now, they've just modified it for the COVID-19. They know the vector for the vaccine is safe, they just need to know whether it works or not.

Bangkok Ladyboys went down a treat ... so probably do them again  ;D ;D


Offline Dr. Beaker

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36 other areas due to be locked down within days according to Sky news!
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Offline a treeless whopper

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36 other areas due to be locked down within days according to Sky news!

Ha, oh dear.

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Bangkok Ladyboys went down a treat ... so probably do them again  ;D ;D


Offline jillc

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Just seen the list, all over the place including parts of London, Yorkshire, Lancashire, the Midlands and north east. I hope Merseyside will not be joining this long list in the next two weeks.
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Offline Dr. Beaker

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Offline Currywurst

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Don't underestimate reducing the duration of it by a couple of days, that frees up so many ventilators and ITU beds over the course of time it would save thousands of lives.

...

Yes, that's a good point and you can't put a price on lives saved. I suppose you could see it as a useful therapeutic aid in serious cases, but far from a game-changer in the larger picture.

Many (most?) US patients will be footing the bill themselves, so the cost of a course of treatment will be hard for many people to find. Although if someone has been in an ITU for some time, racking up the daily charges, another $ 3000 isn't going to have a huge impact and you'd save money due to being released a few days earlier, so you'd be a bit less bankrupt. :-\

I suppose it's another example of the iniquity of the US healthcare system and the power of big pharma to charge what it wants.


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Offline BIG DICK NICK

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Just seen the list, all over the place including parts of London, Yorkshire, Lancashire, the Midlands and north east. I hope Merseyside will not be joining this long list in the next two weeks.

My borough in London is on the hitlist. The actual increase in cases number seemed quite low to me unless I’m misunderstanding things?

Offline jillc

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My borough in London is on the hitlist. The actual increase in cases number seemed quite low to me unless I’m misunderstanding things?

There were individual reports that there was an increase in cases in London a while back may have been a couple of weeks ago, which is why I have everything crossed about Merseyside. I can't think there won't be some knock on effect after last week sadly.
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Offline Tepid T₂O

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I would urge caution ...

I work in Slough and whilst there has been a 50% increase in cases, the data I have seen is from 2 cases to 3.

Of course, we don't know what the Pillar 2 data is (ie tests not in hospitals), but I think some of this is down to poor numeracy skills.
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Yeah that's a fair point and saving a few thousand dollars is obviously one of the upshots to surviving this in the US. There's a whole host of other potential benefits to saving a few dies like reduced lung fibrosis, reduced frailty and weakness following ventilation, reduced need to rehabilitation afterwards, potentially reduced need for Tracheotomy's if the need to be ventilated is reduced. Those few days can be critical for a person's long term health after contracting the disease.

Bangkok Ladyboys went down a treat ... so probably do them again  ;D ;D


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I see that Gilead is charging $3,100 for a 5-day course. And that they want to keep the price low so that poorer countries can afford it! No question of any profiteering, then.

And the only established benefit is that it reduces the duration of the infection by a couple of days in serious cases, so maybe the US is welcome to hang on to it at that price.

They have struck a deal with a couple of generic drug manufacturers in India and Pakistan to make and supply the drug to 127 developing countries. Price will be something like $65 dollars per vial compared to the $520 per vial in the US. €520 per vial is the charge for US patients with commercial insurance, then $390 per vial for governments of developed countries and US patients on government healthcare. Think it’s 6 vials per treatment course.

Offline Zeb

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On that list of places given to Sky etc.

Quote
Some suspicion (from me and others) that this list of places 'at risk' of being locked down - which seems to be popping up everywhere - is the result of briefings coming out of government. As someone just said to me: "That then leaves people at local level to clear up their shit."

I'm not saying eg Wigan will never be in a local lockdown scenario. For all I know the numbers will rocket in the next week. But if you're going to brief, at least speak to public health directors and understand the current situation.

Otherwise councils then have to waste their time putting comms out to clarify things local people understandably are sharing like wildfire on social media that isn't right.

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Offline rafathegaffa83

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44,000 new cases in U.S. yesterday so I hope there wasn't a weekend blip.

4th of July coming this weekend.  Amity America will be needing summer dollars



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Offline [new username under construction]

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I would urge caution ...

I work in Slough and whilst there has been a 50% increase in cases, the data I have seen is from 2 cases to 3.

Of course, we don't know what the Pillar 2 data is (ie tests not in hospitals), but I think some of this is down to poor numeracy skills.

Yeah someone on twitter said another of the places on the list (Isle of White maybe) went from 0 to 2 cases.

I'm hazy on the whole piller 2 numbers, do we actually know them? Being released?

Offline Currywurst

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They have struck a deal with a couple of generic drug manufacturers in India and Pakistan to make and supply the drug to 127 developing countries. Price will be something like $65 dollars per vial compared to the $520 per vial in the US. €520 per vial is the charge for US patients with commercial insurance, then $390 per vial for governments of developed countries and US patients on government healthcare. Think it’s 6 vials per treatment course.

Thanks (and to Welshred) for the info. This kind of well-founded knowledge is what makes this site so good.

The figure I mentioned was obviously for patients covered by commercial insurance, so $390x6 is obviously lower. Whatever the level charged, it will pale into insignificance compared with other hospital treatment costs. I saw a few days ago that a chap in, I think, Seattle had received a bill for over $1m for his protracted hospital treatment for a severe case of infection.
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Offline Jiminy Cricket

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If you rely on death numbers then you’re a month too late.  That’s the problem.
As I acknowledged in my post. But the problem with testing is that the positive numbers depend upon how many people are tested, and who is tested. The more random the testing, the lower the positive rate. The more targeted the testing, the greater the positive rate. Then, there are varying problems with reliability of differing test kits, and it seems the result numbers are more open to fudging.

Offline west_london_red

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https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-bradford-and-london-boroughs-among-36-at-risk-areas-that-could-be-just-days-away-from-local-lockdowns-12018594

This is the article. Quite a few London Boroughs in there

The article I saw said Leicester had 100+ cases per 100,000 people, second was Bradford I think with 40, so Leicester is orders of magnitude worse then anywhere else in the country so I wouldn’t start panicking just yet although concerning as there’s some very familiar and near by places to me personally.

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Phase 1/2 trial of the Pfizer/BioNtech vaccine programme has put out some results as a preprint today.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.30.20142570v1.full.pdf+html

Vaccine appears to generate an antibody response, I didn't see anything in there to see if they looked at T cells, but no doubt others on here are far better qualified than me to read this.

Main side effect appeared to be fever along with some disturbed sleep, particularly at higher dosage levels


Offline Zeb

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Someone who has been giving out that list of places should be given a kick in the bollocks by each of the 26 councils. Wigan was named on it, this is the complete combined rate per 100k across Greater Manchester for last week. Obviously leaked from 'someone' in Greater Manchester to a local reporter with a national audience.

Bolton 21.6
Bury 6.3
Manchester 15.2
Oldham 27.8
Rochdale 28.8
Salford 6.2
Stockport 5.8
Tameside 15.5
Trafford 3.4
Wigan 4
GM 13.3
Leicester 135

Context over time is that Bury and Tameside were highest but have come down while the current highest are both also heading lower than they were.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/bang-upto-date-covid-19-18522300
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Offline Sammy5IsAlive

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Someone who has been giving out that list of places should be given a kick in the bollocks by each of the 26 councils. Wigan was named on it, this is the complete combined rate per 100k across Greater Manchester for last week. Obviously leaked from 'someone' in Greater Manchester to a local reporter with a national audience.

Bolton 21.6
Bury 6.3
Manchester 15.2
Oldham 27.8
Rochdale 28.8
Salford 6.2
Stockport 5.8
Tameside 15.5
Trafford 3.4
Wigan 4
GM 13.3
Leicester 135

Context over time is that Bury and Tameside were highest but have come down while the current highest are both also heading lower than they were.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/bang-upto-date-covid-19-18522300

I think that it is the direction of travel they are looking at. Johnson has been talking about 'whack-a-mole' hasn't he? So in theory you jump on things at a local level before the case numbers start to get higher.

I don't think it is a coincidence that you had Johnson talking about that yesterday and this information finding its way into the media today.


Offline reddebs

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My test results have come back negative which is good except it then says they're not 100% accurate

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Offline Samie

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The whole fuckin' thing is a complete mess.

Very few will actually follow guidelines never mind another city wide lockdown.

Offline Sammy5IsAlive

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The whole fuckin' thing is a complete mess.

Very few will actually follow guidelines never mind another city wide lockdown.

I guess it depends on what they do about it.

If they are serious about following that strategy they'd cancel the pub/restaurant openings on Saturday in those boroughs.

Offline Zeb

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I think that it is the direction of travel they are looking at. Johnson has been talking about 'whack-a-mole' hasn't he? So in theory you jump on things at a local level before the case numbers start to get higher.

I don't think it is a coincidence that you had Johnson talking about that yesterday and this information finding its way into the media today.

Yeah, can see what's hoped for to happen - councils have been going on about needing the information (and beyond just tests carried out/positive tests) for a couple of months now. Just that list which has been passed to national press makes no sense at all. What's there for GM got to them last Thursday and they've worked overtime to make sense of it since. Will be same all over the country. What Mayor of Leicester was saying about it all being a shock. I wonder whether someone's looked at percentage increases and not looked at the actual number of cases?
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Offline A-Bomb

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With three mass outbreaks in meat plants (Anglesey, Wrexham and Keighley), a lesser outbreak at Mini in Oxford and the rumoured spread in Leicester through clothing factories it'll be interesting to see how long the HSE can maintain their laissez faire attitude and get back to acting like Factory Inspectors and improve safe working conditions.

The company i work for are supplying thermal cameras into that arena, i look after our internal sales teams and the feedback from the frontline is varied, there are organisations that have ample procedures in place and doing the best they can to have a safe working environment, to those who are doing the bare minimum government guidelines and won't be investing any more time or money into improving those conditions. Really does come down to the attitude of the people involved. This will come across as perhaps sexist, however the data i've crunched has shown a stronger relationship between higher levels of protection and female decision makers.

Offline So... Howard Phillips

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It’s a bit odd to be complaining about people trying to undermine Starmer when those who supported Corbyn complained of the same and were poo pooed. 

If Starmer leads the Party well, he will over come these people.  I’d be doesn't he won’t as we saw with corbyn.

And it’s also the case that Starmer being criticised by corbyn supporters probably plays really well with the electorate (not meant as a criticism of corbyn supporters, just factual).


Any one who wants to be leader of our country needs to over come challenges. Yes, often form within their own party.  If they can’t do that, they probably aren’t competent.

Wrong thread, Tepid. ;D

Offline RainbowFlick

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Just a question on the vaccines, if one is available by the end of this year would you guys chose to have it? Don’t get me wrong I’m no anti-vaxer, I have a 1 year old and a 3 year old and they are fully vaccinated so I am completely comfortable with vaccines but am I the only one in two minds due to speed they will have been developed for Covid-19 and that they could be longer term affects of a vaccine that don’t become apparent until later on?

Personally I probably won't be trying to get at the start of the queue, but I think I'd happily take it in a couple months in. To be honest if I was asked to trial the vaccine now I would probably do it, more out of hoping I can help with the solution.

The suggestions of "prioritising" vulnerable Black and Asian people too is also not a popular idea. Understandably a lot of these communities are not particularly trusting of vaccines due to various trials over history.

Think the Queen and Prince Philip should show how much they care about the country and be the first.
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Personally I probably won't be trying to get at the start of the queue, but I think I'd happily take it in a couple months in. To be honest if I was asked to trial the vaccine now I would probably do it, more out of hoping I can help with the solution.

The suggestions of "prioritising" vulnerable Black and Asian people too is also not a popular idea. Understandably a lot of these communities are not particularly trusting of vaccines due to various trials over history.

Think the Queen and Prince Philip should show how much they care about the country and be the first.

It sounds like front line medical workers/carers will get first priority anyway along with over-50s, which makes sense in terms of exposure and relative risk

Offline So... Howard Phillips

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176 deaths today, 50 in hospital so that is about 120 in care homes?

Shocking if true.

Offline TSC

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The whole fuckin' thing is a complete mess.

Very few will actually follow guidelines never mind another city wide lockdown.

It’s been clear for ages that it’s everyone for themselves.  Except a large proportion of the country follow noises and actions from government to the letter.  As would be the case in many countries.  Just that most countries have governments with some degree of competence.  Sadly doesn’t apply here.