Author Topic: The upper class twits wandering with no consequences thread...  (Read 348135 times)

Offline Zeb

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They could start with the Shadow Cabinet!

I think it's a quarter of the shadow cabinet would consider themselves to be black or part of a minority ethnic group? Not including junior positions on the front bench.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2020, 01:00:34 PM by Zeb »
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Offline Bobsackamano

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They could start with the Shadow Cabinet!

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/labour-shadow-cabinet

The parliament elected in 2019 is the most diverse in history and the new shadow cabinet is also more ethnically diverse than its predecessor. There are seven Black, Asian and minority ethnic (BAME) MPs in the shadow cabinet, or 22% of the total, up from 12% in the outgoing cabinet. This compares with 15% BAME representation in the cabinet.

Over 50% of the Labour shadow cabinet is female, compared with 45% of the last Labour shadow cabinet and just 27% of the current cabinet. Dodds is also the first woman ever to serve as either chancellor or shadow chancellor.

Offline Circa1892

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Theresa May absolutely seething in parliament. Her journey from loyal, obliging former-PM backbencher to angry former cabinet minister who hates her successors and isn't about to be quiet about it has been nothing but rapid. Problem being she's not exactly a figure who inspires much loyalty, so doesn't have the clout someone with her political background would usually have to make life difficult for Johnson, Gove etc...

Offline Zeb

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Lots of talk about Starmer and his appeal to the red wall in England, winning back those votes, but what is his appeal and plan for Scotland and Wales exactly?

Why would Scottish voters go for Starmer's Labour and not the SNP if anti brexi, or the tories if pro Brexit?

Will be an increasingly similar story in Wales once they catch up with the Scots independence wise, covid helping that along nicely.

Wales is a fair bit behind Scotland on independence. There's also a difference in which way the voters lean. Labour leaning voters in Wales have more in common with traditional socially conservative Labour voters. Scotland is much more towards the socially liberal side of things. But Scotland is a bit of a black hole for Labour at the moment. From what's come out so far, it looks like trying to consolidate a 'unionist' vote and build incrementally from there. Realistically, it's hard to see how a second referendum doesn't happen at some point and, right now, how it doesn't take Scotland out of the union. So may be more useful, for the long term, to be thinking how to overturn Rees Mogg's majority unless a really compelling case for the union can be made.
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Offline So... Howard Phillips

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See what meaningful changes Labour (as a party, and institutionally) is willing to put its name to. 'Defund the police' (and 'moment') are going to hit sour notes but there's other ways to get to same place. And there's stuff beyond that which is clearly still not quite right. Did you catch Evans' letter to members on Monday? Ensuring diversity in hiring is going to help so far as permanent staff at the party are concerned. Hopefully see support to allow people from different backgrounds to take up such posts.

So, in theory, it should stop people at the top of the Party employing each other's offspring ;D

Offline Ray K

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Theresa May absolutely seething in parliament. Her journey from loyal, obliging former-PM backbencher to angry former cabinet minister who hates her successors and isn't about to be quiet about it has been nothing but rapid. Problem being she's not exactly a figure who inspires much loyalty, so doesn't have the clout someone with her political background would usually have to make life difficult for Johnson, Gove etc...

I think her utter hatred of Gove & Johnson will make her stay in the Commons rather than go to the Lords.  It's too difficult to fling a knife at their backs from a different chamber.
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Offline So... Howard Phillips

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https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/labour-shadow-cabinet

The parliament elected in 2019 is the most diverse in history and the new shadow cabinet is also more ethnically diverse than its predecessor. There are seven Black, Asian and minority ethnic (BAME) MPs in the shadow cabinet, or 22% of the total, up from 12% in the outgoing cabinet. This compares with 15% BAME representation in the cabinet.

Over 50% of the Labour shadow cabinet is female, compared with 45% of the last Labour shadow cabinet and just 27% of the current cabinet. Dodds is also the first woman ever to serve as either chancellor or shadow chancellor.

Away with you and your pesky facts.

Offline So... Howard Phillips

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I think her utter hatred of Gove & Johnson will make her stay in the Commons rather than go to the Lords.  It's too difficult to fling a knife at their backs from a different chamber.

Geoffrey Howe levels of spite springs to mind.

Offline bornandbRED

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By 2024 I severely doubt Brexit is going to be a leading issue unless Labour choose to make it one.

My guess on Starmer is that he will run a long way from "diet Tory" on the economy/public services etc., he will just try to stay clear of "culture war" issues that the Tories seem keen to talk about, you can address those issues in power anyway, don't let yourself be defined by them when you are out of step with majority public opinion on most of them.

Brexit will be absolutely in the discourse. Anything less than absolute disaster (which is possible) will be presented as a roaring success by the Tories, and continue to be swallowed by the 51% as a successful liberation of some sort. It's not going to go away.

Economic policy is a weird one, because this government does not seem to want any more austerity. It seems to genuinely want to spend on infrastructure and public services; Sunak's budget alluded to this even before the onset of COVID, and the stimulus package announced today is another step in that direction. So not sure that will be as effective an attack angle over the next few years.




Offline So... Howard Phillips

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Brexit will be absolutely in the discourse. Anything less than absolute disaster (which is possible) will be presented as a roaring success by the Tories, and continue to be swallowed by the 51% as a successful liberation of some sort. It's not going to go away.

Economic policy is a weird one, because this government does not seem to want any more austerity. It seems to genuinely want to spend on infrastructure and public services; Sunak's budget alluded to this even before the onset of COVID, and the stimulus package announced today is another step in that direction. So not sure that will be as effective an attack angle over the next few years.

The thing with spending on infrastructure is that you need the skills to build new hospitals, schools, railways etc. Do we have sufficient trained staff to do the work? I can't see an unemployed tatto artist quickly acquiring engineering skills for instance.

Obviously the easy alternative ( and to ensure that the tax money flows into the Tories backers coffers) will be to import that workforce from Europe. So back to square one.

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I hope a poll is done asking people not whether they like what Johnson is promising with his "New Deal"/"Project Speed"/*insert shit slogan created by a SPAD graduate who's never had a proper job*, but whether they actually believe he'll deliver on it.

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Brexit will be absolutely in the discourse. Anything less than absolute disaster (which is possible) will be presented as a roaring success by the Tories, and continue to be swallowed by the 51% as a successful liberation of some sort. It's not going to go away.

Economic policy is a weird one, because this government does not seem to want any more austerity. It seems to genuinely want to spend on infrastructure and public services; Sunak's budget alluded to this even before the onset of COVID, and the stimulus package announced today is another step in that direction. So not sure that will be as effective an attack angle over the next few years.





In true Johnson style they will hype up what they are doing a hell of a lot more than actually delivering a great deal.

Today is a another example of talking about stuff they have already announced as some ambitious new initiative.

Offline So... Howard Phillips

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I hope a poll is done asking people not whether they like what Johnson is promising with his "New Deal"/"Project Speed"/*insert shit slogan created by a SPAD graduate who's never had a proper job*, but whether they actually believe he'll deliver on it.

Just look at how effective the spending as a result of Windrush has been as evidence of their ability/ desire to pay out on their promises.

Unfortunately I'd suggest an analytical examination of Johnson's financial promises will pale into insignificance next to Boris's promise to let you go the pub and gave a fortnight pissing in the streets if Torremolinos.

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Just look at how effective the spending as a result of Windrush has been as evidence of their ability/ desire to pay out on their promises.

Unfortunately I'd suggest an analytical examination of Johnson's financial promises will pale into insignificance next to Boris's promise to let you go the pub and gave a fortnight pissing in the streets if Torremolinos.

It's pitiful that the same people who think they're being "anti-establishment" by voting for Johnson's Brexit Tories are the ones who will be buying into big, shiny spending promises, a classic move of "establishment" politicians since the dawn of time.

Offline Tepid T₂O

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Geoffrey Howe levels of spite springs to mind.
More I think...

I’ve never seen her so passionate...

She has a clear and obvious hatred for the man...  who knew?
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If she compromised on Brexit (whether that be going for a proper soft Brexit, or agreeing to a 2nd referendum in exchange for the Commons passing her deal), he wouldn't be PM right now.

Offline TSC

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More I think...

I’ve never seen her so passionate...

She has a clear and obvious hatred for the man...  who knew?

Must be tearing her up knowing that she and her government enabled the lunatics to take control.

Offline Dr. Beaker

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Must be tearing her up knowing that she and her government enabled the lunatics to take control.
Mind you she should be grateful that someone even shitter than herself came along  to represent the absolute  nadir of British politics. Mind you Cameron has got to be in there somewhere.
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Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Can’t see how Labour can win back voters who have their Brexit messiah in charge. A government that is more right wing than anything we’ve seen in decades, which seems to resonate with large swathes of the country. All whilst having pretty free economic policy - which takes away that angle to a large extent.

If Starmer pursues the path of diet Tory, what alternative is he offering that this country will jump for, that Johnson is already not providing? Let’s not begin talking about Scotland.
Oh, that cannot happen now. But, when 2021 comes round, and the Brexit properly hits the fan, that's a different matter.

Offline Tepid T₂O

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Reports that Seamus Milne has finally left the Labour Party employment
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Offline The Real Rasta

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The strategy seems to that alienating BAME/young voters is an acceptable risk to take, on the assumption that they’ll vote Labour no matter what. Because I think people need to realise just how much he’s alienating people right now, although I’m aware Corbyn also put people off for different reasons. Whether he’s going to win back enough Labour voters to offset the people who may just not bother voting at all, I’m not sure.

It seems clear that Starmer is trying to court favour with Times/Telegraph readers. My fear is that he’ll alienate Labour voters and the people he’s trying to court favour with will continue to vote Tory, as they always do.

I’d say so.
He really is, as someone who is black and also thought he was the standout candidate to be leader I'm extremely disappointed between this and his refusal to call the Britain First lot racist earlier in the month. Now Labour don't stand where I live but if they did he wouldn't get my vote right now and would have a lot of work to do to get it and I know that family and friends over in England share the same view.

The zero tolerance across the board when it comes to racism is 100% spot on too, you don't pick and choose what you're strong on and what is ok to pussyfoot around because voters (we stick our nose up at anti-semites but other racists are ok?), disappointed but not surprised at the difference in attitude and tone in here between anti-semitism issues and BAME issues.

Offline Circa1892

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Reports that Seamus Milne has finally left the Labour Party employment

I thought he’d left after the Election. Wonder what value members have got for the £55k or so he’s earned in the interim.

Offline Tepid T₂O

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He really is, as someone who is black and also thought he was the standout candidate to be leader I'm extremely disappointed between this and his refusal to call the Britain First lot racist earlier in the month. Now Labour don't stand where I live but if they did he wouldn't get my vote right now and would have a lot of work to do to get it and I know that family and friends over in England share the same view.

The zero tolerance across the board when it comes to racism is 100% spot on too, you don't pick and choose what you're strong on and what is ok to pussyfoot around because voters (we stick our nose up at anti-semites but other racists are ok?), disappointed but not surprised at the difference in attitude and tone in here between anti-semitism issues and BAME issues.

What was the Britain’s first thing? I hadn’t heard that..
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Offline Mutton Geoff

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https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/labour-shadow-cabinet

The parliament elected in 2019 is the most diverse in history and the new shadow cabinet is also more ethnically diverse than its predecessor. There are seven Black, Asian and minority ethnic (BAME) MPs in the shadow cabinet, or 22% of the total, up from 12% in the outgoing cabinet. This compares with 15% BAME representation in the cabinet.

Over 50% of the Labour shadow cabinet is female, compared with 45% of the last Labour shadow cabinet and just 27% of the current cabinet. Dodds is also the first woman ever to serve as either chancellor or shadow chancellor.
no offence to you but it would be great if there was no need for any stats on gender or ethnicity needing to be part of the debate,  then society will be truly integrated and open for all to achieve on ability alone:
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Offline Snail

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He really is, as someone who is black and also thought he was the standout candidate to be leader I'm extremely disappointed between this and his refusal to call the Britain First lot racist earlier in the month. Now Labour don't stand where I live but if they did he wouldn't get my vote right now and would have a lot of work to do to get it and I know that family and friends over in England share the same view.

The zero tolerance across the board when it comes to racism is 100% spot on too, you don't pick and choose what you're strong on and what is ok to pussyfoot around because voters (we stick our nose up at anti-semites but other racists are ok?), disappointed but not surprised at the difference in attitude and tone in here between anti-semitism issues and BAME issues.

Good post mate, and I couldn’t agree more with your second paragraph.

And in general, as I mentioned on here a little while back, there’s been a steady flow of people I know leaving the party over the last few weeks and people who were campaigning for Labour a few months ago (and in elections previous to that) now feel completely pushed out and disenfranchised for a myriad of reasons.

Appreciate that my circle - and Liverpool in general as a place to live - doesn’t represent this country as a whole but there’s a lot of disillusionment about at the moment, and that’s never a good thing.
« Last Edit: July 1, 2020, 12:09:57 AM by Snail »

Online oldfordie

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He really is, as someone who is black and also thought he was the standout candidate to be leader I'm extremely disappointed between this and his refusal to call the Britain First lot racist earlier in the month. Now Labour don't stand where I live but if they did he wouldn't get my vote right now and would have a lot of work to do to get it and I know that family and friends over in England share the same view.

The zero tolerance across the board when it comes to racism is 100% spot on too, you don't pick and choose what you're strong on and what is ok to pussyfoot around because voters (we stick our nose up at anti-semites but other racists are ok?), disappointed but not surprised at the difference in attitude and tone in here between anti-semitism issues and BAME issues.
I must of missed that. what happened?
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Offline Dr. Beaker

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He really is, as someone who is black and also thought he was the standout candidate to be leader I'm extremely disappointed between this and his refusal to call the Britain First lot racist earlier in the month. Now Labour don't stand where I live but if they did he wouldn't get my vote right now and would have a lot of work to do to get it and I know that family and friends over in England share the same view.

The zero tolerance across the board when it comes to racism is 100% spot on too, you don't pick and choose what you're strong on and what is ok to pussyfoot around because voters (we stick our nose up at anti-semites but other racists are ok?), disappointed but not surprised at the difference in attitude and tone in here between anti-semitism issues and BAME issues.

Tory leaders, literally for decades, have managed the impossible task of riding two horses, and now have finally strapped themselves to the one horse and somehow remained in power - I personally think that they have shed all their big hitters and the soul of their party, and that they will soon be fucked up completely by Brexit (their one and only guiding principle and centre of gravity). For decades I have felt that their days were numbered and I still do - I have remained consistently delusional on this since the days of John Major.

But they are survivors, and have never had the baggage of ideology to weigh them down, until now - there I go again.

Labour are consistently self-destructive, carry all kinds of baggage and we have discovered since the Brexit referendum that our Leader now needs to ride three horses, Corbynites, Blairites, and Faragistes. Starmer needs to negotiate not so much a tightrope, as a minefield. There will be mistakes along the way. For me there haven't been any so far, but for others there will have been. The BLM path is nuanced but not that difficult to understand. We have to, as Milliband said, 'Learn, not so much to bury our differences, but to stop burying our similarities.' That's a good one-liner, but it's easier said than done. And how do you find any common ground with our beloved working class Faragistes?! I think the only way is education, and that will start on January the first.

It seems pretty impossible to me, but we all need to be less emotional and try to rationalise our way through this - which seems to me to be roughly what old refreshingly boring Mr. Starmer is trying to do.
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Offline Sangria

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Tory leaders, literally for decades, have managed the impossible task of riding two horses, and now have finally strapped themselves to the one horse and somehow remained in power - I personally think that they have shed all their big hitters and the soul of their party, and that they will soon be fucked up completely by Brexit (their one and only guiding principle and centre of gravity). For decades I have felt that their days were numbered and I still do - I have remained consistently delusional on this since the days of John Major.

But they are survivors, and have never had the baggage of ideology to weigh them down, until now - there I go again.

Labour are consistently self-destructive, carry all kinds of baggage and we have discovered since the Brexit referendum that our Leader now needs to ride three horses, Corbynites, Blairites, and Faragistes. Starmer needs to negotiate not so much a tightrope, as a minefield. There will be mistakes along the way. For me there haven't been any so far, but for others there will have been. The BLM path is nuanced but not that difficult to understand. We have to, as Milliband said, 'Learn, not so much to bury our differences, but to stop burying our similarities.' That's a good one-liner, but it's easier said than done. And how do you find any common ground with our beloved working class Faragistes?! I think the only way is education, and that will start on January the first.

It seems pretty impossible to me, but we all need to be less emotional and try to rationalise our way through this - which seems to me to be roughly what old refreshingly boring Mr. Starmer is trying to do.

The problem for Labour is that the socio-cultural left has assumed the identity of the left and made itself the primary marker of the left, making the party unsympathetic to those who subscribe to the economic left but who are decidedly not socio-cultural left. In the past Labour had made the economic left its label. As Johnson's repeated announcements show, the economic left is still popular enough to vie for. The socio-cultural left is electorally an irrelevance.
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Offline Dr. Beaker

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The problem for Labour is that the socio-cultural left has assumed the identity of the left and made itself the primary marker of the left, making the party unsympathetic to those who subscribe to the economic left but who are decidedly not socio-cultural left. In the past Labour had made the economic left its label. As Johnson's repeated announcements show, the economic left is still popular enough to vie for. The socio-cultural left is electorally an irrelevance.
The old definitions seem irrelevant nowadays. It's not even like they are blurred around the edges, it's more like all the cards have been thrown up in the air. We live in very fluid and even volatile times, and when you are living right in the middle of one of these moments, I have to say that I can't read the future, not a word of it. I just don't know how the cards are going to fall.
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Online oldfordie

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Tory leaders, literally for decades, have managed the impossible task of riding two horses, and now have finally strapped themselves to the one horse and somehow remained in power - I personally think that they have shed all their big hitters and the soul of their party, and that they will soon be fucked up completely by Brexit (their one and only guiding principle and centre of gravity). For decades I have felt that their days were numbered and I still do - I have remained consistently delusional on this since the days of John Major.

But they are survivors, and have never had the baggage of ideology to weigh them down, until now - there I go again.

Labour are consistently self-destructive, carry all kinds of baggage and we have discovered since the Brexit referendum that our Leader now needs to ride three horses, Corbynites, Blairites, and Faragistes. Starmer needs to negotiate not so much a tightrope, as a minefield. There will be mistakes along the way. For me there haven't been any so far, but for others there will have been. The BLM path is nuanced but not that difficult to understand. We have to, as Milliband said, 'Learn, not so much to bury our differences, but to stop burying our similarities.' That's a good one-liner, but it's easier said than done. And how do you find any common ground with our beloved working class Faragistes?! I think the only way is education, and that will start on January the first.

It seems pretty impossible to me, but we all need to be less emotional and try to rationalise our way through this - which seems to me to be roughly what old refreshingly boring Mr. Starmer is trying to do.
I get where your coming from but I don't think it's about Starmer needing to ride 3 horses to appeal to as many voters as possible, he needs to influence public opinion with good arguments to win those voters over.
Problem we've had for the last few years is weak leadership who have allowed the far right to dictate public opinion, the far right have run riot over the left the last 5 yrs.  we need leadership capable of challenging bulls,, with good arguments the public will nod along with,  people believed the right wing propaganda before they supported right wing policies. Labour need a leader with the intellignce to challenge the propaganda with good arguments.
BLM is a issue that's only arisen under Starmer. I think he's handled it very well.
I support BLM aims, especially in the USA but Starmer was 100% right to say the calls to defund the police are nonsense, the 2 issues are different, funding to improve black lives is 1 issue am sure Starmers willing to talk about, defunding the police is a separate issue. it's a ridicules suggestion.
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Offline Sammy5IsAlive

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Good post mate, and I couldn’t agree more with your second paragraph.

And in general, as I mentioned on here a little while back, there’s been a steady flow of people I know leaving the party over the last few weeks and people who were campaigning for Labour a few months ago (and in elections previous to that) now feel completely pushed out and disenfranchised for a myriad of reasons.

Appreciate that my circle - and Liverpool in general as a place to live - doesn’t represent this country as a whole but there’s a lot of disillusionment about at the moment, and that’s never a good thing.

I think given the scale and the trauma of the defeat in December and the electoral mountain that now faces Labour I don't think it is surprising that many are giving up on individual engagement in parliamentary politics and are redirecting their energies elsewhere.

Offline Peabee

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He really is, as someone who is black and also thought he was the standout candidate to be leader I'm extremely disappointed between this and his refusal to call the Britain First lot racist earlier in the month. Now Labour don't stand where I live but if they did he wouldn't get my vote right now and would have a lot of work to do to get it and I know that family and friends over in England share the same view.

The zero tolerance across the board when it comes to racism is 100% spot on too, you don't pick and choose what you're strong on and what is ok to pussyfoot around because voters (we stick our nose up at anti-semites but other racists are ok?), disappointed but not surprised at the difference in attitude and tone in here between anti-semitism issues and BAME issues.

His dismissal of BLM movement as a “moment” and the refusal to call out the far right protestors/rioters as racist have put him under sever scrutiny for me. I’m not black, but I’m not ignoring shit like this anymore just because it affects other people. I want to see zero tolerance across the board on all racism and bigotry. I’m hoping he clarifies his position this week.

You’re not alone from speaking to BAME friends and social media mutuals. There’s a feeling he’s pandering to certain racists to win votes.
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Offline Dench57

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His dismissal of BLM movement as a “moment” and the refusal to call out the far right protestors/rioters as racist have put him under sever scrutiny for me. I’m not black, but I’m not ignoring shit like this anymore just because it affects other people. I want to see zero tolerance across the board on all racism and bigotry. I’m hoping he clarifies his position this week.

You’re not alone from speaking to BAME friends and social media mutuals. There’s a feeling he’s pandering to certain racists to win votes.

I think "defunding the police" is a terrible phrase. We've already seen in this thread how Joe Public hears "defunding" and immediately assumes it must mean the complete abolition of anything resembling a police force. Anyone who has followed BLM or anything that's happened over the last few weeks knows that isn't what it means. But I understand why it was a bad word to choose. Howeverrrrrrrrrrr.....

I do feel that Starmer fucked up on this one. He knows full well that "defunding" is not to be taken literally.

I don't expect him to back calls to defund the police - calls which are not particularly loud in the UK. In fact, I would have expected him to say "I don't think it's a good idea to defund the police. As DPP I saw first hand some of the great work the police can do. But what I think these calls speak to is...".

He could have talked about how investment in social services/early intervention/rehabilitation (all gutted by the Tories) can be more effective than policing at reducing crime.
But he didn't.
He could have referred to his own Justice Secretary's report into treatment of BAME people in the British justice system.
But he didn't.

What he did do was minimise BLM to a "moment", and then go on to define organised collective calls to address racial injustice in a country he wants to govern (as leader of an allegedly left-wing, allegedly anti-racist party) as a protest about the death of one man 4000 miles away.

What he did do was signal that he has no intention of taking seriously the concerns that people have taken to the streets to express about the racial inequalities in this country. 

What he did do was try to outflank the fucking Tories on the "Culture Wars".

Apropos of something, or nothing, I'm not sure because I'm white and middle-class - two of my black mates that I'm in Whatsapp groups with, neither of whom are particularly vocal or online in their politics, announced in disgust that they will be leaving the Labour party - I want to challenge them on that, but I'm struggling to find a solid argument for them to stay.
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Offline Zeb

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I can understand the desire to want to avoid using 'movement' in that interview, given the various groups calling themselves BLM and announcing political aims - including the one which does want to 'defund the police' as a step towards 'abolish[ing] the police'. Can also understand why some would read into that a sense away from wanting to view it as a historic moment.
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Offline 12C

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So Cummings has decided to tear up Planning Rules and made his lackey (the PM) announce it to the nation?

Saves him applying for retrospective permissions for his bolt hole.
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Offline a treeless whopper

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So, is Starmer racist? Or does he not give a shit about black people?

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Interesting the Premier League also making some clarifications.

Quote
In its statement, the Premier League said it stood alongside players, club and a wide range of football organisations who had "come together in recent weeks to reject racism and to show support for the message that black lives matter".

The league said "Black Lives Matter" had become an "expression of unity for people from all communities who believe it is unacceptable to treat black people differently to anyone else".

"In an unprecedented move, Premier League players from all 20 clubs united in solidarity with this message and the Premier League supported their request to replace their names on the back of playing shirts with 'Black Lives Matter'," the statement added.

"The Premier League offered this backing as we wholly agree with the players' single objective of eradicating racial prejudice wherever it exists. And we are unequivocal in the belief that there is no room for racism in our competition, football as a whole, or the wider community."

Explaining that "professional football bodies and the players and managers recognise the importance of the message that black lives matter", the league added: "We do not endorse any political organisation or movement, nor support any group that calls for violence or condones illegal activity.

"We are aware of the risk posed by groups that seek to hijack popular causes and campaigns to promote their own political views.

"These actions are entirely unwelcome and are rejected by the Premier League and all other professional football bodies, and they underline the importance of our sport coming together to declare a very clear position against prejudice. We want our message to be a positive one that recognises football has the power to bring people together."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53242328
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And your money will have bought you nothing."

Offline So... Howard Phillips

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So, is Starmer racist? Or does he not give a shit about black people?

Wow - That escalated quickly.

Still waiting for a link to his comments etc about supporting right wing racists.

Offline AndyMuller

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Good post mate, and I couldn’t agree more with your second paragraph.

And in general, as I mentioned on here a little while back, there’s been a steady flow of people I know leaving the party over the last few weeks and people who were campaigning for Labour a few months ago (and in elections previous to that) now feel completely pushed out and disenfranchised for a myriad of reasons.

Appreciate that my circle - and Liverpool in general as a place to live - doesn’t represent this country as a whole but there’s a lot of disillusionment about at the moment, and that’s never a good thing.

Labour can afford to lose votes in places like Liverpool though in the grand scheme of things.

Offline The Gulleysucker

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And in other news, Seumas Milne has thankfully now left, no doubt to vigorous suggestions from many that he should pursue sex and travel ringing in his ears.
« Last Edit: July 1, 2020, 09:32:29 AM by The Gulleysucker »
I don't do polite so fuck yoursalf with your stupid accusations...

Right you fuckwit I will show you why you are talking out of your fat arse...

Mutton Geoff (Obviously a real nice guy)