Poll

Tory Christmas Party

Nothing like a good old knees up!
They should apologise and come clean
Johnson should resign
The front bench should resign
The entire party should resign
The entire party should be put in an Elon Musk rocket and fired off to jupiter with 2 packets of hula hoops and a pot noodle
I LOVE cheese!

Author Topic: Doesn't matter who you vote for as long as it's for the right reasons!  (Read 1179353 times)

Offline redmark

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5240 on: January 7, 2020, 07:47:05 pm »
For that reason, I'm backing Nandy so far. Rayner for deputy.
I'm going to have to put this in my signature, but please use all preference votes!!! :)

Nandy is interesting. Rayner's pretty much a shoo-in I think.
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Offline filopastry

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5241 on: January 7, 2020, 07:58:26 pm »
Nandy seems to have performed very well at the Parliamentary hustings, should guarantee her reaching the threshold

Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5242 on: January 7, 2020, 08:00:08 pm »
"Labour had failed to understand that the old working class was becoming a new middle class; aspiring, consumering, choosing what is best for themselves and their families."

"Labour existed to be the party that must 'reflect interests and attitudes of working voters, not the left-wing myths about what working people want"


Who are you quoting here mate?
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

Offline OOS

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5243 on: January 7, 2020, 08:03:52 pm »
Who are you quoting here mate?

Philip Gould ;The Unfinished Revolution: How the Modernisers Saved the Labour Party' 1999.

It's been on my Christmas reading list, just about to finish it. Full of great lines like the one above.
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Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5244 on: January 7, 2020, 08:05:02 pm »
Philip Gould ;The Unfinished Revolution: How the Modernisers Saved the Labour Party' 1999.

It's been on my Christmas reading list, just about to finish it. Full of great lines like the one above.

Ha, right.

It looked like you might be meaning RLB. Thought I was going mad.  ;D
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Offline Lush is the best medicine...

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5245 on: January 7, 2020, 09:00:36 pm »
McDonnell backing Burgon for deputy

Offline west_london_red

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5246 on: January 7, 2020, 09:21:06 pm »
McDonnell backing Burgon for deputy

I’m pretty certain how I’ll be voting in the main contest, the deputy contest is probably the more trickier one. Am leaning towards Khan, but just a shame she’s from London. Never much liked Rayner, Burgeon is an idiot, don’t know much about Butler or Mahmood.
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Offline Elmo!

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5247 on: January 7, 2020, 10:05:01 pm »
Interesting reading on timing of Javids first budget and its impact on the devolved parliaments. Unlike WM, the Scottish Parliament can't just have it's budget whenever it suits it, and this will only allow a few days to arrange and pass the Scottish budget before the deadline.

Ignorance or malice? Or both?

https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim/status/1214449522656600064

Offline Red-Soldier

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5248 on: January 7, 2020, 10:33:17 pm »
Interesting reading on timing of Javids first budget and its impact on the devolved parliaments. Unlike WM, the Scottish Parliament can't just have it's budget whenever it suits it, and this will only allow a few days to arrange and pass the Scottish budget before the deadline.

Ignorance or malice? Or both?

https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim/status/1214449522656600064

Got to be malicious to try and discredit the SNP when things turn to shit.

Better get used to it.  They can pretty much do what they like until the next election.

Offline PatriotScouser

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5249 on: January 7, 2020, 11:51:22 pm »
I'm going for Lisa Nandy as leader and Rayner as deputy. Rayner is a shoe-in guarantee so I won't bother with my explanation in my vote for her.

But whilst Keir is my 2nd preference the number 1 thing for me is electability and unity within the party. I believe Lisa is electable nationally and I believe she can unify the party too, I do think Keir can do that as well I want in my fantasy Keir as shadow chancellor to bring some gravitas, knowhow and expertise under that title as they say 'it's the economy, stupid' and I think Keir in that role would be far more effective than as leader.

I also feel that it's time Labour has a female leader but let me quantify that by stating they need for me to meet the requirement to electability and unity which Phillips, Thornberry and RLB cannot do and actually had she gone for leader Rayner can also do.

Also I don't believe another London/metropolitan leader is an optimal look at this time for leader. I mean without a doubt I'd take that with Keir over the rest of the contenders, but I believe someone from the north and from a working class constituency would do wonders.

I also think in terms of competency and policy Lisa ticks those boxes as well so I'm going to vote for Lisa as leader but I won't be disappointed if Keir gets it, as he someone I can get behind. I am rooting for Lisa though!

Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5250 on: January 8, 2020, 09:58:45 am »
McDonnell backing Burgon for deputy
that’s him screwed then
Mellowing and Retired, and stayed around long enough to watch the Tories implode

Offline Circa1892

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5251 on: January 8, 2020, 01:25:50 pm »
Absolutely fucking baffling that we have such inept PMs and leaders of the opposition during a foreign policy crisis like this one. Disgraceful.

Offline Red-Soldier

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5252 on: January 8, 2020, 01:28:31 pm »
Absolutely fucking baffling that we have such inept PMs and leaders of the opposition during a foreign policy crisis like this one. Disgraceful.

Johnson couldn't give a fuck and Corbyn, well, he's just Corbyn, isn't he.

Offline filopastry

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5253 on: January 8, 2020, 03:41:37 pm »
Unison have announced they are backing Keir Starmer

Offline west_london_red

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5254 on: January 8, 2020, 03:44:50 pm »
Unison have announced they are backing Keir Starmer

That’s excellent news, hopefully give Unite something to think about.
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Offline Trump's tiny tiny hands

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5255 on: January 8, 2020, 03:45:35 pm »
Unison have announced they are backing Keir Starmer

And Unite will back RLB. It is significant that Unison have backed Starmer, no doubt, but you can see where the battle lines are going to be drawn.

Offline Circa1892

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5256 on: January 8, 2020, 04:37:43 pm »
That’s excellent news, hopefully give Unite something to think about.

Nah - Unite's Exec will do what Len says. Unison is a more democratic (and better these days Union) - it'll be RLB for Unite.

Offline Red-Soldier

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5257 on: January 8, 2020, 06:26:41 pm »

Keir Starmer’s Labour leadership bid wins backing of MPs and Unison

Shadow Brexit secretary is first candidate to get more than 22 backers needed to make ballot


Keir Starmer’s Labour leadership campaign has received a boost after he won the backing of the UK’s biggest trade union, Unison, and became the first person to get more than the 22 MPs required to become a candidate.

The shadow Brexit secretary is all but certain to be one of the names put to a vote of the Labour membership, after Dave Prentis, the Unison general secretary, declared the union would be endorsing him.


Starmer is thought to have about 26 backers, including Ben Bradshaw, David Lammy, and Debbie Abrahams. Jo Stevens, the former shadow Welsh secretary, set out her reasons for backing him in a blog, saying she asked every voter at the election who had reservations about Jeremy Corbyn who the leader should be. “With the exception of one person, the answer every time was Keir Starmer,” she said.

Rebecca Long Bailey, who is backed by a number of Corbyn allies, has at least 12 supportive MPs, from the party chairman, Ian Lavery, to John McDonnell, who said she would be a “superb” choice. Diane Abbott, the shadow home secretary, declared her support for Long Bailey on Wednesday.

Long Bailey also appears to be gaining big support among the 2019 new intake, including Navendu Mishra, Kate Osborne, Kim Johnson, Apsana Begum and Paula Barker.

Jess Phillips, on the Corbyn-sceptic side of the party, also has at least 11 MPs. One of her supporters, Wes Streeting, said she was “the person who captures the public’s imagination”. Her campaign said it was “confident we have the nominations needed to make it through to the next stage of this important contest”.

Lisa Nandy, who impressed many undecided MPs at a hustings on Tuesday night with her diagnosis of what went wrong at the election, has seven declared supporters. She won the backing on Wednesday of Jon Ashworth, the shadow health secretary, who said Nandy was the “authentic leftwing voice” for the leadership.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jan/08/keir-starmer-secures-support-labour-mps-run-leadership

Offline Ray K

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5258 on: January 8, 2020, 06:44:02 pm »
@lewis_goodall
EXC: I can confirm there is to be a seventh entrant into the Labour leadership contest.

It’s Barry Gardiner.

Tune into #Newsnight at 2230 for more.
Gardiner is preparing a run after being approached (among others) by Len McCluskey, who has been speaking to a number of other potential candidates, as he isn’t convinced Rebecca Long Bailey can win.


****
I think that McCluskey isn't convinced by RLB is more significant than his backing of Gardiner.
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Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5259 on: January 8, 2020, 07:01:53 pm »
:lmao

Barry Gardiner?

:lmao

Is this a joke??
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Offline west_london_red

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5260 on: January 8, 2020, 07:10:39 pm »
Nah - Unite's Exec will do what Len says. Unison is a more democratic (and better these days Union) - it'll be RLB for Unite.

It’s still very good news, and at least opens up the possibility of the other unions supporting someone other then Long-Bailey.
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Offline west_london_red

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5261 on: January 8, 2020, 07:14:57 pm »
@lewis_goodall
EXC: I can confirm there is to be a seventh entrant into the Labour leadership contest.

It’s Barry Gardiner.

Tune into #Newsnight at 2230 for more.
Gardiner is preparing a run after being approached (among others) by Len McCluskey, who has been speaking to a number of other potential candidates, as he isn’t convinced Rebecca Long Bailey can win.


****
I think that McCluskey isn't convinced by RLB is more significant than his backing of Gardiner.

That would be hilarious, and very good news as it shows how shit scared they are of not winning the contest but until it’s officially announced I’m not getting too excited.
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Offline Robinred

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5262 on: January 8, 2020, 07:15:34 pm »
Gardiner. Honestly you couldn’t make it up.

Anyway, I’m still hopeful Starmer will be the next Labour leader.
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Offline west_london_red

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5263 on: January 8, 2020, 07:26:52 pm »
Gardiner. Honestly you couldn’t make it up.

Anyway, I’m still hopeful Starmer will be the next Labour leader.

McClusky is either getting desperate or must think he’s the fucking Pied Piper of Hamelin and that the membership will follow whoever he backs if he thinks Gardiner has a chance of winning.
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Offline Zeb

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5264 on: January 8, 2020, 07:47:25 pm »
One of my favorite ever profiles of a politician was done about Barry Gardiner. https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/the-constant-gardiner

Quote
There is an anecdote everyone will have heard if they’ve spent enough time around people who used to work for the Labour party. It goes like this:

It was the last day of Labour conference in Brighton, at some point during the Blair and Brown years, and Barry Gardiner walked into a room full of aides. “Does anyone have toothpaste?”, he asked.

One of the advisers did, and handed him the tube. “Oh thank god,” he said, “I’d forgotten mine at home and I’ve been brushing my teeth with soap for three days.”

FT's Jim Pickard reckons GMB are thinking of backing Nandy come the end of the month. Also hinting that RLB refusing to let Karie Murphy have anything to do with her campaign may not be coincidental to Gardiner getting support from another senior Unite figure. Funniest thing would be if neither got onto the ballot from splitting MPs' nominations.
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Offline Indomitable_Carp

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5265 on: January 8, 2020, 07:59:02 pm »
Just joined the party for the first time in order to be able to vote. Starmer seems the obvious choice to me at this stage, although willing to hear anyone out.

Can already say Long-Bailey will not be getting my vote. It's not even that I don't like her, but leadership material she is not and it is clear as day that any 'Corbyn successor' candidate will be electorally dead before they've even started.

Offline Robinred

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5266 on: January 8, 2020, 08:10:33 pm »
Just joined the party for the first time in order to be able to vote. Starmer seems the obvious choice to me at this stage, although willing to hear anyone out.

Can already say Long-Bailey will not be getting my vote. It's not even that I don't like her, but leadership material she is not and it is clear as day that any 'Corbyn successor' candidate will be electorally dead before they've even started.

Sound thinking on all fronts.
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Offline redmark

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5267 on: January 8, 2020, 08:15:16 pm »
I'm going for Lisa Nandy as leader and Rayner as deputy. Rayner is a shoe-in guarantee so I won't bother with my explanation in my vote for her.

But whilst Keir is my 2nd preference the number 1 thing for me is electability and unity within the party. I believe Lisa is electable nationally and I believe she can unify the party too, I do think Keir can do that as well I want in my fantasy Keir as shadow chancellor to bring some gravitas, knowhow and expertise under that title as they say 'it's the economy, stupid' and I think Keir in that role would be far more effective than as leader.

I also feel that it's time Labour has a female leader but let me quantify that by stating they need for me to meet the requirement to electability and unity which Phillips, Thornberry and RLB cannot do and actually had she gone for leader Rayner can also do.

Also I don't believe another London/metropolitan leader is an optimal look at this time for leader. I mean without a doubt I'd take that with Keir over the rest of the contenders, but I believe someone from the north and from a working class constituency would do wonders.

I also think in terms of competency and policy Lisa ticks those boxes as well so I'm going to vote for Lisa as leader but I won't be disappointed if Keir gets it, as he someone I can get behind. I am rooting for Lisa though!
While it doesn't matter, Nandy is probably one of the two candidates from a more comfortable background - the granddaughter of a Liberal MP and Lord, and the daughter of an influential academic and equal opportunities/race relations campaigner (both of Thornberry's parents were academics; her father ended up working at the UN). Starmer is the son of a toolmaker and a nurse.
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Offline cloggypop

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5268 on: January 8, 2020, 08:15:18 pm »
Gardiner. Honestly you couldn’t make it up.

Anyway, I’m still hopeful Starmer will be the next Labour leader.
@LenMcCluskey: This is utter nonsense. I certainly haven't been approached by Barry to support him as leader. Let me also make clear I have not indicated any concerns about RLB's campaign, or anyone else's. 1/1 https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1214979374426013696

Offline west_london_red

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5269 on: January 8, 2020, 08:22:54 pm »
Just joined the party for the first time in order to be able to vote. Starmer seems the obvious choice to me at this stage, although willing to hear anyone out.

Can already say Long-Bailey will not be getting my vote. It's not even that I don't like her, but leadership material she is not and it is clear as day that any 'Corbyn successor' candidate will be electorally dead before they've even started.

Good on you! Hopefully more people follow suit
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Offline OneTouchFooty

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5270 on: January 8, 2020, 08:26:27 pm »
The new leader doesn't need to be a Northern, Red Wall, meat pie eating, ale-swilling loud mouth. Intelligence, competence and credible is a great starting point.

Also think we should stop acting as though there are grand, sophisticated and complex reasons why the "red wall" types didn't vote Labour when it's pretty obvious on the whole. The more difficult question is how to win them back without populist gestures and aping Tory/Brx parties.
« Last Edit: January 8, 2020, 08:34:44 pm by OneTouchFooty »

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5271 on: January 8, 2020, 09:12:56 pm »
that’s him screwed then
diane abbott and ian Byrne, a new mp from Liverpool also backing the Yorkshire fuckwit

:lmao

Barry Gardiner?

:lmao

Is this a joke??
Shame Chris Williamson isn’t around as he’d fancy a go

Offline KillieRed

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5272 on: January 9, 2020, 03:21:48 pm »

Is there a leadership/deputy poll up for this on here?

It might be interesting.
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Offline west_london_red

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5273 on: January 9, 2020, 03:28:04 pm »
Is there a leadership/deputy poll up for this on here?

It might be interesting.

Without wanting to sound like a broken record, how many people on here can actually vote in the contest?
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Offline KillieRed

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5274 on: January 9, 2020, 03:29:53 pm »
Without wanting to sound like a broken record, how many people on here can actually vote in the contest?

Well not me, but i`d vote in an opinion poll!


EDIT: my union has already endorsed it`s candidate without even emailing me.
The best way to scare a Tory is to read and get rich” - Idles.

Offline west_london_red

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5275 on: January 9, 2020, 03:42:21 pm »
Well not me, but i`d vote in an opinion poll!


EDIT: my union has already endorsed it`s candidate without even emailing me.

If you cant vote then I assume you don’t pay into your unions political fund, maybe they only ask the ones that do pay into the political fund?
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Offline KillieRed

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5276 on: January 9, 2020, 03:43:50 pm »
If you cant vote then I assume you don’t pay into your unions political fund, maybe they only ask the ones that do pay into the political fund?

Possibly.
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Offline Nobby Reserve

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5277 on: January 9, 2020, 04:11:12 pm »
Good on you! Hopefully more people follow suit

I have, and have a similar view to I_C

A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5278 on: January 9, 2020, 04:41:10 pm »
The new leader doesn't need to be a Northern, Red Wall, meat pie eating, ale-swilling loud mouth. Intelligence, competence and credible is a great starting point.

Also think we should stop acting as though there are grand, sophisticated and complex reasons why the "red wall" types didn't vote Labour when it's pretty obvious on the whole. The more difficult question is how to win them back without populist gestures and aping Tory/Brx parties.


The 'red wall' abandoned Labour because they believe the right-wing bullshit about the EU (and immigrants, lefties, benefits scroungers and lefties) being the cause of why their lives aren't great.

Under Corbyn, Labour totally absolved itself of its responsibility to explain just how 1) the EU wasn't the source of the problem for disaffected working class voters, and instead the problem is too great a proportion of the income from the productive output of the nation ends up in too few [tax-dodging] hands); and 2) leaving the EU would create way more negatives than positives.

This was very much due to antipathy towards the EU of Corbyn and his advisors. They failed to provide leadership, preferring to live in a hinterland of ambivalence.

The effect was that the myths about the EU that had been built-up by the anti-regulation right-wing (who were energised further by the prospect of ATAD/AMLD destroying the secrecy of the BOT/CD tax havens, and depriving 'The City' of £hundreds of billions in 'skimming' and ancillary income) were allowed to grow and become entrenched.

To insinuate it's just down to some xenophobia/racism/nationalism within millions of people simplifies the reasons too far.
A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5279 on: January 9, 2020, 04:47:06 pm »
While it doesn't matter, Nandy is probably one of the two candidates from a more comfortable background - the granddaughter of a Liberal MP and Lord, and the daughter of an influential academic and equal opportunities/race relations campaigner (both of Thornberry's parents were academics; her father ended up working at the UN). Starmer is the son of a toolmaker and a nurse.


Class background is not a straightforward thing when it comes to leading the Labour party. I'm struggling to think of the last time the party was led by someone who had genuine experience of manual labour. Not Corbyn obviously. But not Miliband, Brown or Blair either. Not Smith or Kinnock or Foot, and not Jim Callaghan. Not Wilson or Gaitskell and certainly not Attlee. It's probably George Lansbury, who led the party between 1931 and 1935 and had worked as a navvy (one of his achievements being helping to flatten the pitch in Brisbane for the Ashes in the late 19th century).

Of the other ones mentioned above only Jim Callaghan and Corbyn didn't go to university. Callaghan because he was born into a working-class family which had lost its main bread-winner (his dad) and because he joined the navy during the war. Corbyn because, although privately educated and well-off, failed to get his A Levels. Of the rest, only Kinnock could be said to come from a working-class family (dad was a coal miner).

It's instructive to compare the present contest with the one in 1976, where Callaghan beat off the other contenders, to succeed Harold Wilson. Wilson had gone to Oxford university (as had the two previous leaders, Gaitskell and Attlee). In the race to succeed him, apart from Callaghan, there was Roy Jenkins (Oxford), Tony Benn (Oxford), Denis Healey (Oxford), Tony Crosland (Oxford) and Michael Foot (Oxford). Being 'working class', or even being from a 'working-class background' simply didn't matter when it came to leading the Labour party.

It's paradoxical that it does now.  Back in the 1970s the working class was a major part of the nation. The old staple manufacturing industries still accounted for a large part of the economy, even if they were in decline. Coal, iron and steel, shipbuilding, heavy engineering, car manufacturing etc - not to mention the docks and the railways. Labour drew nearly all of its support from blue-collar workers. Yet its leaders were usually privately educated Oxbridge graduates in the liberal professions.

Now, with the working class a shadow of itself and with more people going to university than ever before it has suddenly become the 'thing' to establish one's 'working-class credentials'. Even Keir Starmer is being forced to talk up 'dad the toolmaker'. Rebecca Long Bailey is inventing false memories of when her dad lost his job at Salford docks. Emily Thornberry, who goes everywhere heaving a white van around with her, is saying she was born on a council estate. Richard Burgon comes on TV with a face blackened with coal dust, asking whether he has time to "eat mi' snap".

OK, I made the last one up. But he would do if he thought he could away with it.
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