Topic: Doesn't matter who you vote for as long as it's for the right reasons!

[Dr. Beaker]

Labour should be highlighting just how batshit the current Tory party is to old Tory moderates, and making them the sane party.

This sounds extremely sensible. Needs to be a constant barrage otherwise it will be ignored by the media.

[classycarra]

Agree….

But I suppose getting any level of nuance is almost impossible with as big a thing as the nhs

Doesn't really require any nuance to identify and pay junior doctors this same 3% raise.

Likewise identifying consultants in roles like those Clint outlined.

[TepidT2O]

Doesn't really require any nuance to identify and pay junior doctors this same 3% raise.

Likewise identifying consultants in roles like those Clint outlined.

It would seem poor to give consultants on Covid icu nothing though…. Well paid? They need to have been…. To not give them anything when they are emotionally broken might not be a wise move…

I wonder how many more years it will be beifre I get a pay rise?  Really starts to bite after a couple of years…

[classycarra]

It would seem poor to give consultants on Covid icu nothing though…. Well paid? They need to have been…. To not give them anything when they are emotionally broken might not be a wise move…

I wonder how many more years it will be beifre I get a pay rise?  Really starts to bite after a couple of years…

Who suggested giving them nothing? The examples of those not having the toughest ride were Dermatology Consultants and Orthopaedic Surgeons.

Department for Health and Social Care said 3% was a “recognition of the unique impact of the pandemic on the NHS”.

“NHS staff are rightly receiving a pay rise this year despite the wider public sector pay pause, in recognition of their extraordinary efforts,” said Sajid Javid, the health secretary.

Those example professions did not need to put in the extraordinary efforts of the example consultants above, which is the way the raise is being framed by the government apparently.

[TSC]

Interesting… all other public sector workers are getting nothing…..
There’s only so long you can give public sector workers shit pay before people don’t want to work in the public sector…

And we’ve had a bloody decade of it.

Yep and that’s just the direct impacts on employee.  Wider impacts on service users (general public) seen council budget cuts of over 30% as a result of austerity.  Practically this meant reduced or sometimes scrapped services.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-46443700

And now some face bankruptcy

https://www.progressive-policy.net/press-releases/press-release-effective-bankruptcy-threatens-eight-out-of-ten-local-authorities-despite-government-covid-19-support

[TepidT2O]

Yaxley Lennon loses libel case against Syrian schoolboy and gets fined £100k…

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/tommy-robinson-libel-jamal-hijazi-b1888660.html

Lol

[Nobby Reserve]

Yaxley Lennon loses libel case against Syrian schoolboy and gets fined £100k…

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/tommy-robinson-libel-jamal-hijazi-b1888660.html

Lol

Excellent.

Is he still living as an asylum seeker himself?


His 'defence' sounded like Trump or one of his oddball followers:

"Where is your evidence that Mr Hijazi had assaulted girls and other pupils, Mr Robinson?"

"I have uncovered dozens of accounts of aggressive, abusive and deceitful behaviour by Mr Hijazi.”

"OK, may we see these accounts to verify them?"

"Er... I have uncovered dozens of accounts of aggressive, abusive and deceitful behaviour by Mr Hijazi."

[PaulF]

Yep and that’s just the direct impacts on employee.  Wider impacts on service users (general public) seen council budget cuts of over 30% as a result of austerity.  Practically this meant reduced or sometimes scrapped services.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-46443700

And now some face bankruptcy

https://www.progressive-policy.net/press-releases/press-release-effective-bankruptcy-threatens-eight-out-of-ten-local-authorities-despite-government-covid-19-support

What is the real-world impact of a bankrupt council?
--edit -- (That sounds facetious, I kind of assume it means the govn't has to take over and \ or bail them out)

[Zeb]

Bankrupt councils will reduce services to statutory minimums. Big impacts on social care for kids and adults who need it. More library closures. That kind of thing.

[Nobby Reserve]

Dawn Butler asked to leave the House for a day after accusing Bozo of lying to the house and refusing to withdraw the accusation.

IMO, Labour should do a coordinated stunt at some point. A succession of Labour MPs each highlight a different lie he's told then brand him a liar and get expelled.

[Nobby Reserve]

In other news, the Police Federation have issued a statement saying they have no confidence in Himmler Patel.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-57933129

They're late to the party, but welcome additions nonetheless

[Zeb]

Dawn Butler asked to leave the House for a day after accusing Bozo of lying to the house and refusing to withdraw the accusation.

IMO, Labour should do a coordinated stunt at some point. A succession of Labour MPs each highlight a different lie he's told then brand him a liar and get expelled.

One of those things which only makes the news because it's rare, isn't it? Risking turning it into a normal stunt in Parliament would seem counterproductive. Dawn Butler's made her point, and it's a fair one on being the wrong end of a huge government majority, and on Johnson will continue.

[Fromola]

One of those things which only makes the news because it's rare, isn't it? Risking turning it into a normal stunt in Parliament would seem counterproductive. Dawn Butler's made her point, and it's a fair one on being the wrong end of a huge government majority, and on Johnson will continue.

Currently top trend on Twitter and will probably lead the news. Great publicity on this occasion to expose Boris as a charlatan.

[TSC]

In other news, the Police Federation have issued a statement saying they have no confidence in Himmler Patel.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-57933129

They're late to the party, but welcome additions nonetheless

So at some point they did have confidence in Patel?  Truth lands at the door of all eventually.

[bigbonedrawky]

Dawn Butler asked to leave the House for a day after accusing Bozo of lying to the house and refusing to withdraw the accusation.

IMO, Labour should do a coordinated stunt at some point. A succession of Labour MPs each highlight a different lie he's told then brand him a liar and get expelled.

Any MP who doesn't get kicked out at least once for speaking truth to power, isn't worth their salt.

[Yorkykopite]

Any MP who doesn't get kicked out at least once for speaking truth to power, isn't worth their salt.

George Galloway agrees with that. As does the Reverend Ian Paisley. Gesture politicians, both!

Very few MPs have been "kicked out" for what they said. Dennis Skinner is the only one to have been kicked out more than once. He got his marching order 4 times. But the man who lost Bolsover to the Tories was the absolute quintessence of a gesture politician. Best remembered for calling for a General Strike in support of the miners in '84 when he couldn't even get the Bolsover colliers to join the pit strike. "Truth to Power" indeed.

[Circa1892]

In other news, the Police Federation have issued a statement saying they have no confidence in Himmler Patel.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-57933129

They're late to the party, but welcome additions nonetheless

They definitely did that multiple times with May and she ended up as PM...

[Zeb]

Yaxley Lennon loses libel case against Syrian schoolboy and gets fined £100k…

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/tommy-robinson-libel-jamal-hijazi-b1888660.html

Lol

Claiming he's bankrupt. Hope the court give his financial dealings a very thorough going over because if he's just parked assets in someone else's name then they can insist what he owes comes out of that. If he is genuinely bankrupt then I hope the court asks after his expensive habits.

[TepidT2O]

Claiming he's bankrupt. Hope the court give his financial dealings a very thorough going over because if he's just parked assets in someone else's name then they can insist what he owes comes out of that. If he is genuinely bankrupt then I hope the court asks after his expensive habits.

Legal fees are much higher apparently ….


The coward’s way out is to claim bankruptcy….

A shame there is no debtors prison in his case

[AndyMuller]

Why is there a new poll each time I come in here? Fucking Andy.

[Red Beret]

Excellent.

Is he still living as an asylum seeker himself?


His 'defence' sounded like Trump or one of his oddball followers:

"Where is your evidence that Mr Hijazi had assaulted girls and other pupils, Mr Robinson?"

"I have uncovered dozens of accounts of aggressive, abusive and deceitful behaviour by Mr Hijazi.”

"OK, may we see these accounts to verify them?"

"Er... I have uncovered dozens of accounts of aggressive, abusive and deceitful behaviour by Mr Hijazi."

It was very My Pillow Guy.

[Statto Red]

George Galloway agrees with that. As does the Reverend Ian Paisley. Gesture politicians, both!

Very few MPs have been "kicked out" for what they said. Dennis Skinner is the only one to have been kicked out more than once. He got his marching order 4 times. But the man who lost Bolsover to the Tories was the absolute quintessence of a gesture politician. Best remembered for calling for a General Strike in support of the miners in '84 when he couldn't even get the Bolsover colliers to join the pit strike. "Truth to Power" indeed.

I remember Dennis Skinner being barred from the house for a day's session calling Cameron, dodgy Dave, another occasion he called 50% on members opposite that are corrupt, told he had to withdraw the comment, so came back with 50% of members opposite that aren't corrupt.   The commons does have some weird archaic rules on what you can & can't say

[KillieRed]

Legal fees are much higher apparently ….


The coward’s way out is to claim bankruptcy….

A shame there is no debtors prison in his case

He can claim bankruptcy to this judge, but doesnt he actually have to have an official court ruling to that effect?

[TepidT2O]

He can claim bankruptcy to this judge, but doesnt he actually have to have an official court ruling to that effect?

I’d imagine so.

[Jshooters]

I remember Dennis Skinner being barred from the house for a day's session calling Cameron, dodgy Dave, another occasion he called 50% on members opposite that are corrupt, told he had to withdraw the comment, so came back with 50% of members opposite that aren't corrupt.   The commons does have some weird archaic rules on what you can & can't say

Bastard, blackguard, coward, deceptive, dodgy, drunk, falsehoods, git, guttersnipe, hooligan, hypocrite, idiot, ignoramus, liar, pipsqueak, rat, slimy, sod, squirt, stoolpigeon, swine, tart, traitor and wart.

Edit: This isn't something I was walking around with knowledge of, I learnt it this morning here: https://www.thepoke.co.uk/2021/07/23/dawn-butler-kicked-out-of-commons-for-calling-boris-johnson-a-liar/

[Dr. Beaker]

Bastard, blackguard, coward, deceptive, dodgy, drunk, falsehoods, git, guttersnipe, hooligan, hypocrite, idiot, ignoramus, liar, pipsqueak, rat, slimy, sod, squirt, stoolpigeon, swine, tart, traitor and wart.

Edit: This isn't something I was walking around with knowledge of, I learnt it this morning here: https://www.thepoke.co.uk/2021/07/23/dawn-butler-kicked-out-of-commons-for-calling-boris-johnson-a-liar/

It's like a politics version of that game, was it called Taboo?

[Jshooters]

It's like a politics version of that game, was it called Taboo?

  yep!

[Zeb]

Currently top trend on Twitter and will probably lead the news. Great publicity on this occasion to expose Boris as a charlatan.

Yeah, it's effective when done as rarely as it is. Less convinced that anyone is sticking it to the man by going round telling the country the Tories have only improved the economy by 20% rather than the 73% claimed. The underlying point there is spot on, the words most people will hear however are "improved by 20%". Win some, lose some though.

[AndyMuller]

Much prefer this new poll!

[Circa1892]

Claiming he's bankrupt. Hope the court give his financial dealings a very thorough going over because if he's just parked assets in someone else's name then they can insist what he owes comes out of that. If he is genuinely bankrupt then I hope the court asks after his expensive habits.

See he went for the Michael Scott approach. Nice.

[jillcwhomever]

Can this be organised please?


Philip Pullman
@PhilipPullman
Each day one member of the House of Commons - they can take it in turn - should denounce Johnson as a liar. It might force the House, or the Speaker, to do something about the man and hold him to account.

[TepidT2O]

Can this be organised please?


Philip Pullman
@PhilipPullman
Each day one member of the House of Commons - they can take it in turn - should denounce Johnson as a liar. It might force the House, or the Speaker, to do something about the man and hold him to account.

What would be the point?

Everyone who matters already thinks he’s a liar. Even people on his own side do.  This isn’t effective opposition this is publicising ones virtues (ones I agree with of course, but that’s not the point).

Why does this matter?  Well most focus groups say Labour is negative and preachy.  For me, this would only reinforce that perception and would change literally no one’s mind about Johnson.

So Johnson’s a liar?  Well it’s hardly a well kept secret is it? 

Labour needs to positively frame their message.  Get big Jurg in to do a bit of work with them! (Actually, I think he’d be brilliant at it.  Just what the Labour Party needs!).

[Zeb]

Much prefer this new poll!

Yeah, the Yougov one looks a lot like the Survation one the other day. Bit of encouragement for Labour. Still looks like a 6 point Tory lead though at the moment across all the polls, which is narrowing down again from the vaccination bounce and them looking halfway competent on the back of the NHS getting jabs in arms. Suspect it would narrow further in a general election campaign. See where it's at come autumn, when the spending cuts are going to be harder to hide, and then spring next year for the lead in to a potential election.

[Libertine]

Yeah, the Yougov one looks a lot like the Survation one the other day. Bit of encouragement for Labour. Still looks like a 6 point Tory lead though at the moment across all the polls, which is narrowing down again from the vaccination bounce and them looking halfway competent on the back of the NHS getting jabs in arms. Suspect it would narrow further in a general election campaign. See where it's at come autumn, when the spending cuts are going to be harder to hide, and then spring next year for the lead in to a potential election.

That's a big swing in the YouGov poll though, which usually shows the strongest Tory lead. And all 3 progressive parties with increased support rather than support just switching between them.

These 2 polls will be making Johnson nervous. Tories won't hesitate to knife him the second he begins to look like an electoral liability.

[Welshred]

Yeah, the Yougov one looks a lot like the Survation one the other day. Bit of encouragement for Labour. Still looks like a 6 point Tory lead though at the moment across all the polls, which is narrowing down again from the vaccination bounce and them looking halfway competent on the back of the NHS getting jabs in arms. Suspect it would narrow further in a general election campaign. See where it's at come autumn, when the spending cuts are going to be harder to hide, and then spring next year for the lead in to a potential election.

Think he meant the one at the top of the page

[Zeb]

Think he meant the one at the top of the page

Doh. Sorry. Had missed Andy A changing that again.

[Robinred]

That's a big swing in the YouGov poll though, which usually shows the strongest Tory lead. And all 3 progressive parties with increased support rather than support just switching between them.

These 2 polls will be making Johnson nervous. Tories won't hesitate to knife him the second he begins to look like an electoral liability.

Yep, reading the Guardian this morning re. Cummings’ relentless expose of Johnson and his ramshackle and ‘u’ turn tendencies; it’s surely a question of when not if.

Question then becomes who his likely successor is. The current chancellor is many’s favourite, but it wouldn’t surprise this observer should Hunt get it. One hope is that it would also be the end for Patel, Williamson, Raab et al.

[oldfordie]

Can this be organised please?


Philip Pullman
@PhilipPullman
Each day one member of the House of Commons - they can take it in turn - should denounce Johnson as a liar. It might force the House, or the Speaker, to do something about the man and hold him to account.

Ive no problem with calling Johnson and a few others liars but it has to be backed up with a solid argument later on, I think you also have to explain why Johnsons lies differ from all other politicians as Johnson etc supporters attitude to hearing these accusations is a shrug of the shoulders reply. "All politicians lie"
This argument has to be overcome. the difference with politicians like Johnson and the MPs who stretch the truth or make claims that turn out to be untrue. maybe down to a matter of opinion is Johnson deliberately thinks up a claim out of thin air to deceive the public with a claim he knows to be untrue.
There are many examples of Johnson doing this, the most annoying for me is his malicious attack on the EU when he claimed the EU passed a law prohibiting children under 8 or 9 from blowing up balloons.
Johnson deliberately set out to make up a pack of lies to stir up anger from British parents.
So people defending Johnson or Trump etc have to be shown the difference from the odd MP who stretches the truth or a MP who may even lie to cover up a embarrassing situation as these MPs never set out to deceive by thinking up claims they knew to be untrue to deceive the public into supporting their aims and policies.  I would like to see any MP accusing Johnson for lying also make the comparison to Trump and how Johnson and Trump are so similar when it comes to lies.

[TSC]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-poll-lead-over-labour-collapses-as-battle-looms-on-tax-rises-rcfj5329r

[So… Howard Philips]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-poll-lead-over-labour-collapses-as-battle-looms-on-tax-rises-rcfj5329r

And i reporting that Johnson's vaccine bonus is also fading;

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnsons-vaccine-bounce-fades-as-pms-ratings-negative-two-years-downing-street-1118870