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Tory Christmas Party

Nothing like a good old knees up!
They should apologise and come clean
Johnson should resign
The front bench should resign
The entire party should resign
The entire party should be put in an Elon Musk rocket and fired off to jupiter with 2 packets of hula hoops and a pot noodle
I LOVE cheese!

Author Topic: Doesn't matter who you vote for as long as it's for the right reasons!  (Read 1179924 times)

Offline Wild Romany Boy

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what a weird and childish postIt was a conversation about Chakrabarti's report on... antisemitism ;D

If yuo have a problem with it coming up as a topic, you should consider being more proactive in confronting bigotry as opposed to minimising it as you so regularly have done on here.

When confronted with clear and obvious examples of bigotry before, you minimised it saying "only examples of alleged anti-Semitism I've seen are linked to criticism of Israel and using tired, old stereotypes. I'm not saying using stereotypes is right because it isn't, but it's right at the 'soft' end of the scale" https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=343874.msg16879067#msg16879067

And as you've said before, you don't think this bigotry is "anything to get particularly worked up about"
(https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=343874.msg16879308#msg16879308)

Which I guess, using a more recent example, would be a bit like saying the racist abuse of Saka Rashford and Sancho last night is 'right at the soft end of the scale, cos it's just emoji's and the monkey thing is old'.

PS maybe bibbonedrawky could also consider sharing a conspiracy theory that's a bit less focused on jewish people, unlike his recent repetitions. That could help you too.

Genuine question, can someone tell me what conspiracy theory drawky shared that is focused on Jewish people? Because, from what I can tell, he was saying that action has not been taken and Abrahams came in to it because he was a donor, that Starmer seemed to have wooed, with a history of Islamophobic comments. All he seemed to be saying to me, again unless I am missing something that is perhaps on another thread, is that wooing Abrahams is not the sign of a leadership keen to stamp out prejudice in the party.

Now, there may be a history that I am missing here, but that's not a controversial point, even if you don't agree with it.

Offline Nobby Reserve

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what a weird and childish postIt was a conversation about Chakrabarti's report on... antisemitism ;D

If yuo have a problem with it coming up as a topic, you should consider being more proactive in confronting bigotry as opposed to minimising it as you so regularly have done on here.

When confronted with clear and obvious examples of bigotry before, you minimised it saying "only examples of alleged anti-Semitism I've seen are linked to criticism of Israel and using tired, old stereotypes. I'm not saying using stereotypes is right because it isn't, but it's right at the 'soft' end of the scale" https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=343874.msg16879067#msg16879067

And as you've said before, you don't think this bigotry is "anything to get particularly worked up about"
(https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=343874.msg16879308#msg16879308)

Which I guess, using a more recent example, would be a bit like saying the racist abuse of Saka Rashford and Sancho last night is 'right at the soft end of the scale, cos it's just emoji's and the monkey thing is old'.

PS maybe bibbonedrawky could also consider sharing a conspiracy theory that's a bit less focused on jewish people, unlike his recent repetitions. That could help you too.


Hello, stalker  :wave
A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"

Offline Zeb

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Genuine question, can someone tell me what conspiracy theory drawky shared that is focused on Jewish people? Because, from what I can tell, he was saying that action has not been taken and Abrahams came in to it because he was a donor, that Starmer seemed to have wooed, with a history of Islamophobic comments. All he seemed to be saying to me, again unless I am missing something that is perhaps on another thread, is that wooing Abrahams is not the sign of a leadership keen to stamp out prejudice in the party.

Now, there may be a history that I am missing here, but that's not a controversial point, even if you don't agree with it.

So far as I understood it, one of two Jewish men are currently brainwashing Starmer into not taking action which he is forbidden to take by the EHRC. Maybe it's both of them, it gets complicated. If the Abrahams exercising peopel's minds still is the Geordie property developer, he was under investigation within hours of his historical social media ramblings being dug up by those parsing through donors to Starmer (? think it was Starmer's leadership campaign, rather than any of his previous donations to the Labour party across a few decades). No idea where the investigation went, if it's still under way even, but it's not for Starmer to sort out one way or another.  "You don't care enough to rig the outcome" isn't the flex some seem to think it is.

Where there's problems with the disciplinary process, other than it being slow and dealing with mountains of complaints and backlogs at the moment and ignoring people who are genuinely sorry or wanting to change etc., is as we saw with both Corbyn and Phillips. People who the party do not want/would not want as MPs because they stink the place out politically but who don't quite step all the way over the line themselves. Independent process won't solve this. So it's something which all the Labour socialist societies with a stake in wanting something better should be considering. I'd be in favour of something binding membership to conduct on social media as part of 'uncomradely conduct' or linked to it. But I can see why some would run a mile from wanting to be held accountable.
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Offline classycarra

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Hello, stalker  :wave
Literally just searched my name, your name and semitism - didn't quite require any stalking.

They were pretty memorable comments unfortunately. I just remembered you were someone who had a problem with antisemitism being highlighted and discussed (when you jolted my memory doing it again earlier), but not with antisemitism

Offline Wild Romany Boy

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So far as I understood it, one of two Jewish men are currently brainwashing Starmer into not taking action which he is forbidden to take by the EHRC. Maybe it's both of them, it gets complicated. If the Abrahams exercising peopel's minds still is the Geordie property developer, he was under investigation within hours of his historical social media ramblings being dug up by those parsing through donors to Starmer (? think it was Starmer's leadership campaign, rather than any of his previous donations to the Labour party across a few decades). No idea where the investigation went, if it's still under way even, but it's not for Starmer to sort out one way or another.  "You don't care enough to rig the outcome" isn't the flex some seem to think it is.

Where there's problems with the disciplinary process, other than it being slow and dealing with mountains of complaints and backlogs at the moment and ignoring people who are genuinely sorry or wanting to change etc., is as we saw with both Corbyn and Phillips. People who the party do not want/would not want as MPs because they stink the place out politically but who don't quite step all the way over the line themselves. Independent process won't solve this. So it's something which all the Labour socialist societies with a stake in wanting something better should be considering. I'd be in favour of something binding membership to conduct on social media as part of 'uncomradely conduct' or linked to it. But I can see why some would run a mile from wanting to be held accountable.

I am aware that the ideas of Jewish people being masterminds is an anti-Semitic trope, but I think it's a stretch to say it's what was being indulged in here. The reason it applies to Starmer is because Abrahams was reported to be wooed by Starmer directly. He is not saying that he wants Starmer to rig the outcome - something that would be in direct contradiction of both the Chakrabarti and EHRC reports, and he's clearly read both - he is saying that it comes in because it has been reported that Abrahams was approached by Starmer directly.

To me, drawkey is being accused of indulging in a trope that he simply doesn't get anywhere near making.

Offline Zeb

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I am aware that the ideas of Jewish people being masterminds is an anti-Semitic trope, but I think it's a stretch to say it's what was being indulged in here. The reason it applies to Starmer is because Abrahams was reported to be wooed by Starmer directly. He is not saying that he wants Starmer to rig the outcome - something that would be in direct contradiction of both the Chakrabarti and EHRC reports, and he's clearly read both - he is saying that it comes in because it has been reported that Abrahams was approached by Starmer directly.

To me, drawkey is being accused of indulging in a trope that he simply doesn't get anywhere near making.

It's a weird story for how tangential it is but how many theories are built on it. Simon Fletcher made that point in the New Statesman, although I have sympathy for why Starmer's office would prefer just to let the noise have at it.

This is the Times reporting of the 'direct approach'.

Quote
Mr Abrahams confirmed to The Times this week that he had begun donating to Labour again via a monthly direct debit, after receiving a personalised letter from Sir Keir asking whether he would consider doing so

Quote
Labour is engaged in a drive to attract new members to its donors’ club, the Rose Network, in an effort to reduce its reliance on unions. Individuals who commit to donating more than £5,000 a year are promised access to exclusive briefings about the party’s strategy.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/blair-era-tycoon-backer-david-abrahams-donates-to-labour-again-hh7rv7cqh

I'd hope HQ have learned a bit about at least scanning social media and flagging anything problematic but this is stuff every Labour leader does. It's like Chinese whispers. Why I don't read the blogs.
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Offline bigbonedrawky

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So far as I understood it, one of two Jewish men are currently brainwashing Starmer into not taking action which he is forbidden to take by the EHRC. Maybe it's both of them, it gets complicated. If the Abrahams exercising peopel's minds still is the Geordie property developer, he was under investigation within hours of his historical social media ramblings being dug up by those parsing through donors to Starmer (? think it was Starmer's leadership campaign, rather than any of his previous donations to the Labour party across a few decades). No idea where the investigation went, if it's still under way even, but it's not for Starmer to sort out one way or another.  "You don't care enough to rig the outcome" isn't the flex some seem to think it is.

Where there's problems with the disciplinary process, other than it being slow and dealing with mountains of complaints and backlogs at the moment and ignoring people who are genuinely sorry or wanting to change etc., is as we saw with both Corbyn and Phillips. People who the party do not want/would not want as MPs because they stink the place out politically but who don't quite step all the way over the line themselves. Independent process won't solve this. So it's something which all the Labour socialist societies with a stake in wanting something better should be considering. I'd be in favour of something binding membership to conduct on social media as part of 'uncomradely conduct' or linked to it. But I can see why some would run a mile from wanting to be held accountable.
Ahh I didn't realise my "Grima" comment was been twisted into an anti semitic trope, that one went over my head. I didn't know some of his advisors were Jewish and frankly I dont care what race or religion they are. Crap advice is crap advice. I know my "ethnofascist" comment makes me a hamas supporter in your eyes and the fact the racist in question is Jewish makes Classless Cara think it's another anti Jewish Conspiracy theory but once again... I do not care what race or religion someone is. A racist is a racist and like you originally stated they should'nt be near The Labour Party.

You also seem to be under the illusion  I'm criticising Starmer for not personally kicking the racist out when in fact like Corbyn before him ( Damned if he does damned if he doesn't )it's not his job and he should'nt be getting involved. But I will criticise him (or his advisors) for his own unforced errors, especially when they further alienate a large section of traditional labour voters.
Dont let that stop your paranoid and deluded imagination running away with you though...

Offline Bobsackamano

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Dont let that stop your paranoid and deluded imagination running away with you though...

Pot kettle black

Offline bigbonedrawky

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I am aware that the ideas of Jewish people being masterminds is an anti-Semitic trope, but I think it's a stretch to say it's what was being indulged in here. The reason it applies to Starmer is because Abrahams was reported to be wooed by Starmer directly. He is not saying that he wants Starmer to rig the outcome - something that would be in direct contradiction of both the Chakrabarti and EHRC reports, and he's clearly read both - he is saying that it comes in because it has been reported that Abrahams was approached by Starmer directly.

To me, drawkey is being accused of indulging in a trope that he simply doesn't get anywhere near making.
Dont worry about it.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2021, 09:03:19 pm by bigbonedrawky »

Offline TepidT2O

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For a bit of contexts the Chakrabati report was seen by quite a few posters on here as further proof of Corbyn's anti semitism  ::)
Him and Shami conspired to include other forms of racism in order to diminish anti-semitism (presumably to the level of Islamaphobia ) and wind jewish people up.
You make an accusation there.

Can I suggest that you back it up with quotes by these posters, or delete this as baseless.
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Offline Welshred

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You make an accusation there.

Can I suggest that you back it up with quotes by these posters, or delete this as baseless.

Don't hold your breath we're still waiting for the last time he tried to claim this

Offline Wild Romany Boy

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You make an accusation there.

Can I suggest that you back it up with quotes by these posters, or delete this as baseless.

There was an accusation that he indulged in an anti-Semitic trope which has shown, at best, to be a stretch.

Can you ask for this comment to be deleted too please? Thank you.

Offline TepidT2O

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There was an accusation that he indulged in an anti-Semitic trope which has shown, at best, to be a stretch.

Can you ask for this comment to be deleted too please? Thank you.
You can do that yourself.  In fact, you just have.
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Offline TepidT2O

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Tyrone Mings destroying Priti Patel here

Quote
You don’t get to stoke the fire at the beginning of the tournament by labelling our anti-racism message as ‘Gesture Politics’ & then pretend to be disgusted when the very thing we’re campaigning against, happens.

Huge admiration for those England players doubling down against racism
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Offline bigbonedrawky

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You make an accusation there.

Can I suggest that you back it up with quotes by these posters, or delete this as baseless.

I could quote them but sometimes it's best to let sleeping dogs lie so just for you I will delete the offending post but not because it's baseless ...
A couple of examples of how toxic it was back then... 
"Waiting for Corbyn to die essentially now"
Re whipping boy jones article  "Something else I found utterly nauseating in that article was the Corbyn-esque mention of Islamaphobia in the labour party which is utter nonsense"
« Last Edit: July 12, 2021, 10:03:35 pm by bigbonedrawky »

Offline Elmo!

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I could quote them but sometimes it's best to let sleeping dogs lie so just for you I will delete the offending post but not because it's baseless ...
A couple of examples of how toxic it was back then... 
"Waiting for Corbyn to die essentially know"
Re whipping boy jones article  "Something else I found utterly nauseating in that article was the Corbyn-esque mention of Islamaphobia in the labour party which is utter nonsense"

So you're deleting your original post because you can't back it up and then posting some other "quotes" supposedly by people in here.... and not backing them up?

Offline Jiminy Cricket

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I could quote them but sometimes it's best to let sleeping dogs lie so just for you I will delete the offending post but not because it's baseless ...
A couple of examples of how toxic it was back then... 
"Waiting for Corbyn to die essentially know"
Re whipping boy jones article  "Something else I found utterly nauseating in that article was the Corbyn-esque mention of Islamaphobia in the labour party which is utter nonsense"
:lmao
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Offline bigbonedrawky

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There was an accusation that he indulged in an anti-Semitic trope which has shown, at best, to be a stretch.

Can you ask for this comment to be deleted too please? Thank you.
No need to delete I'm not offended and he's entitled to his opinion.

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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I'm not a mod, but can people stop being dicks if possible or it'll get locked yet again.

Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

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Offline TepidT2O

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I could quote them but sometimes it's best to let sleeping dogs lie so just for you I will delete the offending post but not because it's baseless ...
A couple of examples of how toxic it was back then... 
"Waiting for Corbyn to die essentially know"
Re whipping boy jones article  "Something else I found utterly nauseating in that article was the Corbyn-esque mention of Islamaphobia in the labour party which is utter nonsense"

Forwards not backwards…

As ever..
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Offline bigbonedrawky

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Forwards not backwards…

As ever..
Well from one left leaning, Labour voting, Liverpool fan to another We've more in common, than that which divides us...
The Labour Party needs to move forward, they need to win elections and then you might get a pay rise this decade.

Offline Yorkykopite

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When criticising what somebody says on the political threads on RAWK perhaps it should be mandatory to quote the poster in question. That way the innuendo and false accusations would be less likely to succeed. Plus, if you quote the offending post, then at least every one else knows what you're talking about.
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Offline TSC

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Tyrone Mings destroying Priti Patel here

Huge admiration for those England players doubling down against racism

Great if players start calling out this government for what it is.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-57778668

Offline TSC

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I know it can often feel as though they’re untouchable, and I’m certainly someone who can be quite pessimistic about the chances of seeing the back of them, but does anyone else think this July 19th “irreversible” business could lead to a massive issue for this government? There is already some expectation management going on and I’m fairly sure restrictions will be both kept in place and reintroduced at some point sooner rather than later, so if that were to happen, surely then there would be problems for them?

Just another government shitshow incoming


https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-pms-easing-of-englands-restrictions-is-irresponsible-bma-says-12354633

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-news-live-england-lifts-all-coronavirus-restrictions-on-19-july-but-minister-says-one-never-knows-if-its-irreversible-12354097


Offline stewil007

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Great if players start calling out this government for what it is.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-57778668


The bigger thing that will hit the government harder is if England are invited to No 10 and nobody turns up - that would be a pretty massive statement and f#@k you to them.

Offline Crosby Nick

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The bigger thing that will hit the government harder is if England are invited to No 10 and nobody turns up - that would be a pretty massive statement and f#@k you to them.

I would imagine they’ll avoid the issue by not inviting them. Would have been harder to avoid had they won it, but No. 10 aren’t really obliged to invite them so they’ll probably avoid the PR disaster completely.

Offline stewil007

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I would imagine they’ll avoid the issue by not inviting them. Would have been harder to avoid had they won it, but No. 10 aren’t really obliged to invite them so they’ll probably avoid the PR disaster completely.

I think you're right, but a strategically placed question in tomorrows PMQ's could put them on the spot (not that would care of course)

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Priti Patel is banning all these white supremacist groups just to allow the Tory party an monopoly on such scum.
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Offline Welshred

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Offline Elmo!

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https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/19438528.police-scotland-launch-fraud-probe-snp-fundraising-indyref2/

Is Sturgeon in a little bit of trouble here?

It does sound like there might be more to this than I initially thought. I was cynical about it because basically everyone who has been making a fuss about it are ALBA-leaning agitators who didn't actually jump ship at the time.

I'm no accountant but basically seems like they have spent the money on other things with a sort of IOU accounting trick to spend future revenue on a future indyref instead. I have no idea how dodgy that is.

Offline TSC

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Expect the foreign aid bill to pass today after Sunak craftily re-worded things.  Offered to retain 0.7% but subject to a number of ‘economic tests’ along with future tax rises.  Don’t envisage a sufficient numbers of Tory ‘rebels’ to effectively vote for tax rises.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2021, 01:55:28 pm by TSC »

Offline PaulF

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It does sound like there might be more to this than I initially thought. I was cynical about it because basically everyone who has been making a fuss about it are ALBA-leaning agitators who didn't actually jump ship at the time.

I'm no accountant but basically seems like they have spent the money on other things with a sort of IOU accounting trick to spend future revenue on a future indyref instead. I have no idea how dodgy that is.
Any different to using next years' nike money to agree a precontract with Mbappe?
"All the lads have been talking about is walking out in front of the Kop, with 40,000 singing 'You'll Never Walk Alone'," Collins told BBC Radio Solent. "All the money in the world couldn't buy that feeling," he added.

Offline oldfordie

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Johnsons loosing his cute hair in clumps. he's going to be a baldy soon.
@David__Osland
Leaving the European Union has completely destroyed the Conservative Party. If that doesn't qualify as a concrete Brexit benefit, what does?

Offline Elmo!

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Any different to using next years' nike money to agree a precontract with Mbappe?

They've been borrowing against future revenue....


Everton that.  ;D

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They've been borrowing against future revenue....


Everton that.  ;D

Where ar’ tatties money, Nicola?

Offline Elmo!

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Just a note of interest, the person who made the initial complaint, is the same Sean Clerkin me and Yorky were having a discussion about a few weeks ago about harassing Jim Murphy.

He's also the same guy last summer who stood at the English border with signs saying to English people to stay out.

Offline Red-Soldier

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MPs vote to approve £4bn foreign aid cut amid claims it could last for years – live

Government wins vote by 333 to 298 – a majority of 35.


#Global Britain

Offline Nobby Reserve

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MPs vote to approve £4bn foreign aid cut amid claims it could last for years – live

Government wins vote by 333 to 298 – a majority of 35.


#Global Britain


Will go down well with their 'new base'.

A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"

Offline TSC

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MPs vote to approve £4bn foreign aid cut amid claims it could last for years – live

Government wins vote by 333 to 298 – a majority of 35.


#Global Britain

Quelle surprise

Offline Red-Soldier

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Will go down well with their 'new base'.

Not just their base: