Author Topic: General Election December 12th  (Read 149351 times)

Online jillcwhomever

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Re: So.. I'll be voting Labour
« Reply #3320 on: November 28, 2019, 01:37:06 pm »
I am conflicted and not sure what to do at the moment.
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Offline classycarra

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Re: General Election part 2 (fingers crossed) thread
« Reply #3321 on: November 28, 2019, 01:42:43 pm »
We all here hate Brexit but the reality is that the Labour position pre conference 2018 was the right position to take. Just look at the net gain of one for the Lib Dems proves that is the case.

Talk about damning with faint praise.

Opposition for 9 years getting a pat on the back for winning the 'at least projected to win more than one seat' award.
Labour has clearly always needed "Labour Leave" and "respect the vote" voters in the North, Midlands and Wales to avoid defeat. Denying that electoral reality became another way of objecting to the referendum result.

Labour has designed a strategy to do really well among a highly inefficiently distributed electorate, while dismissing views in the actual key marginals.

We all here hate Brexit but the reality is that the Labour position pre conference 2018 was the right position to take. Just look at the net gain of one for the Lib Dems proves that is the case.

There's enough academic analysis out there that easily refutes your argument about labour in leave constituencies, that doesn't bear repeating, but I think it's worth questioning your logic here.

You are using 2017 general election labour seat wins to argue that the current strategy was necessary and is good. In doing this you are entirely ignoring that in the referendum a year before the election Labour was a remain party, and that those 2017 seat wins came before the pre-conference 2018 'resolution'/fudge.

Labour won in those vulnerable constituencies with a majority of under a 2,000 before they decided to try to not be pro remain or leave. If the pre-2018 conference resolution was a good tactic - ie its expected to appeal to leavers and remainers both - then by definition they wouldn't need to be considered the most vulnerable seats. If the tactic is a good thing, the expectation would be that those small majorities will be rising after it had worked so well appealing in particular to leavers while retaining remainers
« Last Edit: November 28, 2019, 01:52:45 pm by Classycara »

Offline PatriotScouser

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Re: So.. I'll be voting Labour
« Reply #3322 on: November 28, 2019, 01:50:17 pm »
I doubt there's anyone on here who lives in a Lib Dem/Labour marginal, think there's only a couple of those.  So surely it's a pretty simple decision who to vote for, whoever is most likely to beat the Conservative?

Corbyn is not going to win a majority in any case so it doesn't matter what you think of him personally.  Same goes for Swinson and the Lib Dems.

In the Cambridge constituency where I am that is the case and up until yesterday Lib Dem's were the favourites but not now but it is definitely a 'toss-up' from what information I am getting from people.

Alas my vote is certainly for the Labour candidate and MP who has principles and has backed that up with his votes in HoP and also his casework for something in our community had enquired about was excellent. Even though I'm certainly not a fan of the shadow cabinet apart from 2 or 3 of them, I know that Cambridge will be well represented so he's definitely earnt my vote.

But I think the majority will be 1000-2000 either way.

Offline Lusty

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Re: So.. I'll be voting Labour
« Reply #3323 on: November 28, 2019, 01:59:03 pm »
In the Cambridge constituency where I am that is the case and up until yesterday Lib Dem's were the favourites but not now but it is definitely a 'toss-up' from what information I am getting from people.

Alas my vote is certainly for the Labour candidate and MP who has principles and has backed that up with his votes in HoP and also his casework for something in our community had enquired about was excellent. Even though I'm certainly not a fan of the shadow cabinet apart from 2 or 3 of them, I know that Cambridge will be well represented so he's definitely earnt my vote.

But I think the majority will be 1000-2000 either way.

In your case I don't think it matters much, the Conservatives don't have a chance so it won't really affect the picture nationally, I'd probably go with a decent local MP you have experience with.

The outcome of this election is going to be either a Tory majority or 'something else'.  This time round I think a vote for Labour (where it makes tactical sense) is a vote for 'something else', and not an endorsement of Corbyn and his shadow cabinet specifically.  Likewise a vote for Lib Dem is a vote for 'something else' and not an endorsement of Swinson, the coalition government or any of that stuff.

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Re: General Election part 2 (fingers crossed) thread
« Reply #3324 on: November 28, 2019, 02:05:02 pm »
I was depressed but not surprised when I saw that poll last night. This country badly needs a Labour led government.

As I stated:-

78% of the 45 seats Labour must gain from the Conservatives to win the general election voted Leave

72% of Labour's 25 most vulnerable constituencies (majorites under 2,000) voted Leave

61% of all Labour constituencies voted Leave

Labour has clearly always needed "Labour Leave" and "respect the vote" voters in the North, Midlands and Wales to avoid defeat. Denying that electoral reality became another way of objecting to the referendum result.

Labour has designed a strategy to do really well among a highly inefficiently distributed electorate, while dismissing views in the actual key marginals.

We all here hate Brexit but the reality is that the Labour position pre conference 2018 was the right position to take. Just look at the net gain of one for the Lib Dems proves that is the case.


One comment and then I'm out. Brexit is a fundamentally right-wing project. It's anti-evidence and appeals to emotional ideas of 'sovereignty and control' that outweigh arguments based on standards of living and social justice.

Labour should have spent the last three years campaigning actively against the premise of Brexit. Educating, informing and explaining why Brexit is bollocks.

Just as Brexit for jobs is till Brexit, a 'Labour Leaver' is still a Leaver.

The latest predicitions may close but the underlying pattern is clear.

78% of the 45 seats Labour must gain from the Conservatives to win the general election voted Leave - They are almost certainly staying Tory. Leave=Tory

72% of Labour's 25 most vulnerable constituencies (majorites under 2,000) voted Leave - The projections are that 'Leave' constituences with Labour majorities as high as 8,000 could be lost to the Tories. Leave=Tory.

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Offline El Denzel Pepito

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Re: General Election part 2 (fingers crossed) thread
« Reply #3325 on: November 28, 2019, 02:10:22 pm »
The full projected results. Fucking disgusting.


Offline El Denzel Pepito

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Re: General Election part 2 (fingers crossed) thread
« Reply #3326 on: November 28, 2019, 02:18:58 pm »
Anyone could have told you that Labour really don't stand a chance in this election. Whilst I'm on board with most of their policies, they are never getting in with Corbyn, and probably still won't be able to after he's gone.

Labour/Lib Dems/Green failing to come together to form an alliance in this election is what will ultimately be their defeat. No one wins, except the Tories. Fucking daft not to come together in some way.

It is, however, shocking to me to see the majority the Tories are polling at. They're essentially saying 'vote us in and we'll do X X X' and the electorate are blindly following them, despite the fact they've been in power for almost 10 years and haven't done any of what they've said. Surely a political party, that has been in power for 10 years, should be able to point to numerous things in their tenure as to a reason to vote for them again. Instead, they just've just been deflecting, promising XYZ and sticking to the 'Get Brexit Done' tagline, which is somehow enough to draw all the voters in.


Offline Kashinoda

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Re: General Election part 2 (fingers crossed) thread
« Reply #3327 on: November 28, 2019, 02:23:54 pm »
Bleak.

This was done using double the sample size (100,000) compared to their 2017 poll, which was the only accurate one out of the lot.
:D

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: General Election part 2 (fingers crossed) thread
« Reply #3328 on: November 28, 2019, 02:30:41 pm »
The only good thing about any of this will be when some of these Leave dickheads get sick and realise that they'll have to sell everything they own and lose their house for a two week stay in hospital.

I'm sure when they are sitting on their arse in the snow, they'll ruminate on their decisions.
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Offline Sudden Death Draft Loser

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Re: General Election part 2 (fingers crossed) thread
« Reply #3329 on: November 28, 2019, 02:35:47 pm »
The full projected results. Fucking disgusting.


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Offline stewil007

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Re: General Election part 2 (fingers crossed) thread
« Reply #3330 on: November 28, 2019, 02:49:06 pm »
Bleak.

This was done using double the sample size (100,000) compared to their 2017 poll, which was the only accurate one out of the lot.

How have they done previously?  are they always accurate or was last time the outlier??

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Re: General Election part 2 (fingers crossed) thread
« Reply #3331 on: November 28, 2019, 02:49:12 pm »
"The greatest argument against democracy is to have a five minute conversation  with the average voter. "

Particularly when you assess their recent record in Government

Quote

What have the Tories ever done for us?
(Thanks to @Nicola Jayne Burley for these stats)

Tory government....
2010-2019, in case you missed it...
1,000 sure start centres closed.
780 libraries closed.
700 football pitches closed.
Food bank use up 2,400%.
Homelessness up 1,000%.
Rough sleeping up 1,200%
Bedroom tax caused mass evictions.
Evictions are running at record highs.
35% of U.K. kids live in poverty.
Student fees up 300%.
Student debt has risen 150%.
Eradication of EMA (education maintenance allowance).
National debt has risen from £850billion to £2.25trillion.
Emergency Brexit stimulus from BoE in June 2016 of £175b.
Brexit related fall in national revenue £500b.
GDP fallen to -0.1%.
GBP fallen by circa 15% versus EUR and USD.
Manufacturing in recession.
Construction in recession.
Services close to recession.
25-30% cuts to all govt departments.
25-30% cuts to all councils, mainly centred on Labour councils.
Half of councils facing effective bankruptcy.
185k extra deaths attached to the political ideology of austerity.
25,000 less police.
20,000 less prison officers.
10,000 less border officials.
10,000 less firefighters.
10,000 less medical professionals.
25,000 less bed spaces for mental illness.
OECD calculate 3 million hidden unemployed, rate is really 13%.
Creation of 1.3m jobs, mainly temporary, self employed, gig economy and ZHC.
Only 30k full time work positions created.
Close on 50% of workers are self employed, ZHC, or part time precariat.
80% of the 5.3 million self employed live below the poverty line.
35% of self employed only earn £100 a month.
25% cuts for our disabled community.
80% cuts to Mobility allowance.
Closing Remploy.
40% of working households have practically no savings.
70% of households have less than 10k savings.
60% of households can only survive 2 months without a wage.
Household debt reaches new peak, despite emergency base rates.
Increase of 50% in hate crimes.
Increase of knife crime by 150% to 22,000 per year.
Increase in teenage suicide by 70%.
Suicide up 12% in the year 2018.
Self harm among young women up 70%.
Life expectancy down 3 years.
NHS satisfaction level at lowest recorded rate.
Council home building down 90%.
200k social homes lost since 2010.
Zero starter homes built, despite Tory flagship programme.
Council home building down 90%.
200k social homes lost since 2010.
One million families on council home waiting list.
100,000 increase on the council home waiting list since 2010.
36,000 teachers have left the profession.
Six form funding cut by 25%.
33,000 nurses leave the NHS each year...
Tories; killing our people and society while stealing our assets, since 1834.
Believer

Offline bornandbRED

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Re: General Election part 2 (fingers crossed) thread
« Reply #3332 on: November 28, 2019, 02:49:38 pm »
The full projected results. Fucking disgusting.



It really does confirm that most people in this country are absolutely self serving. Really boggles my mind how they continue to have such a large support.

Offline ScottScott

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Re: So.. I'll be voting Labour
« Reply #3333 on: November 28, 2019, 02:50:58 pm »
Obviously I think Corbyn is a fucking cretin. That's a no-brainer.

But while thinking of protest votes and what you want, I'll again vote Labour. Even with that dickhead in charge of them.

But I won't be voting for him, I'll be voting for my local Labour MP who is absolutely excellent. I've had misgivings over the years and I've written to her several times and she's always responded with personal, detailed and well thought out responses.

The Labour Party need people like her and the many other excellent Labour MPs. Let's hope that once Corbyn is fucked off that one of them will step up and will really get Labour to be a force once again.

Oooh you're so fucking brave, well done you

Offline Andy82lfc

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Re: General Election part 2 (fingers crossed) thread
« Reply #3334 on: November 28, 2019, 02:55:32 pm »
No other way to exercise my anger and disillusionment at working class (never mind anyone else) regions voting full on Tory is to call them what they are, thick as pigshit, ignorant c*nts and no doubt these same c*nts will be moaning their arses off about local services and NHS when it goes to shit even more. Don't worry though they will be told by the press to blame someone else than the government and like gleeful sheep will follow.

Offline filopastry

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Re: So.. I'll be voting Labour
« Reply #3335 on: November 28, 2019, 02:55:54 pm »
In your case I don't think it matters much, the Conservatives don't have a chance so it won't really affect the picture nationally, I'd probably go with a decent local MP you have experience with.

The outcome of this election is going to be either a Tory majority or 'something else'.  This time round I think a vote for Labour (where it makes tactical sense) is a vote for 'something else', and not an endorsement of Corbyn and his shadow cabinet specifically.  Likewise a vote for Lib Dem is a vote for 'something else' and not an endorsement of Swinson, the coalition government or any of that stuff.
That's what I thought in 2017 and ended up with it being portrayed as a vote in support of the leadership and a mighty success. In a LabCon marginal with a truly vile MP (IDS) and a pretty awful (from my point of view) Labour candidate Faiza Shaheen, still not sure if I can hold my nose this time around.

Too many Jewish friends I would struggle to look in the eye if I voted Labour, and I hadn't realised the missus (not top 5% earner) will be butchered by Labour's tax plans (legitimately contracting through a limited company), on the other side IDS.

 FPTP fucking sucks

Offline BoRed

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Re: General Election part 2 (fingers crossed) thread
« Reply #3336 on: November 28, 2019, 02:56:55 pm »
It really does confirm that most people in this country are absolutely self serving. Really boggles my mind how they continue to have such a large support.

They're not self serving. Most people vote against their own interests.

Offline flemingcool

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Re: So.. I'll be voting Labour
« Reply #3337 on: November 28, 2019, 02:57:06 pm »
Anyone but Tory.  Hopefully a coalition can be cobbled together to enable a second referendum.  Hopefully the result of that is remain. Hopefully there is a change of leadership at Labour. Then hopefully coalition collapses, leading to a general election with (new leader) Labour getting a majority.  Fingers crossed ey.

Offline kavah

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Re: So.. I'll be voting Labour
« Reply #3338 on: November 28, 2019, 02:57:12 pm »
Maybe we could have a specific thread for all calling each other twats, where discussing politics is not allowed. It would satisfy what appears to be a deep human need.

And for picking Liverpool teams with the names of former politicians and comedians and such like, you twat!

:D

Offline Andy82lfc

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Re: General Election part 2 (fingers crossed) thread
« Reply #3339 on: November 28, 2019, 02:58:53 pm »
It really does confirm that most people in this country are absolutely self serving. Really boggles my mind how they continue to have such a large support.

Don't wanna keep bleating the same obvious lines we all know, but when you have the press behind you that's all that matters. Labour only got in the last time as the Scum decided to back them if I'm not mistaken? Simple as that for me and as crazy and ridiculous it sounds to most of us, people just follow headlines and pass it on regardless of those papers being propaganda sheets. It's mental.

Offline Byrnee

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Re: General Election part 2 (fingers crossed) thread
« Reply #3340 on: November 28, 2019, 03:03:33 pm »
Don't wanna keep bleating the same obvious lines we all know, but when you have the press behind you that's all that matters. Labour only got in the last time as the Scum decided to back them if I'm not mistaken? Simple as that for me and as crazy and ridiculous it sounds to most of us, people just follow headlines and pass it on regardless of those papers being propaganda sheets. It's mental.


That’s a huge oversimplification- The Sun only jumped on board once it was absolutely clear that Labour were head and shoulders above Major and the Tories - they hitched their wagon to the winning team so that they could argue they continued their winning record. The Sun did not help dramatically with the absolute landslide Labour won.

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Offline Andy82lfc

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Re: General Election part 2 (fingers crossed) thread
« Reply #3341 on: November 28, 2019, 03:08:48 pm »

That’s a huge oversimplification- The Sun only jumped on board once it was absolutely clear that Labour were head and shoulders above Major and the Tories - they hitched their wagon to the winning team so that they could argue they continued their winning record. The Sun did not help dramatically with the absolute landslide Labour won.

Maybe so, but the point is still valid, it's incredibly difficult for Labour to break through to voters when they have the paid and ready tory sheets who won't have a bad word said against Boris and take Corbyn down at every opportunity. The Express, Mail, Sun, etc, even the Telegraph has its own nickname. These are full on propaganda sheets when it comes to brexit the elections and anything else their owners want to drive. When one of the main forms of communication to the people of the country is through that it's going to cause unended damage to anyone.

Offline Byrnee

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Re: General Election part 2 (fingers crossed) thread
« Reply #3342 on: November 28, 2019, 03:10:41 pm »
There is absolutely no doubt that the press helps - but don’t forget 2017 was the year we were supposed to see a huge majority for the Tories to ‘crush the saboteurs’ and deliver Brexiit - the right wing press was fully onboard pushing this - but people did not want this and rebelled to anyone but Tories leading to a hung parliament. Corbyn ran a much better campaign than May then, but I still put most of the swing away from the Tories down to people refusing the give May the Majority she wanted to run roughshod over the Brexit process.

Sadly Corbyn and his allies used this massive victory of... ahem... 232 seats as a springboard to oust good MPs and target any who didn’t want to follow the Corbyn devoutly and his teams bizarre pro-ish Brexit stance.

We’ll see how that plays out in a couple of weeks. I’d imagine it should mean a massive Labour win as we’ve been told many times that this was the only sensible rational tactic available to Jeremy.
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Offline Lusty

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Re: So.. I'll be voting Labour
« Reply #3343 on: November 28, 2019, 03:11:08 pm »
That's what I thought in 2017 and ended up with it being portrayed as a vote in support of the leadership and a mighty success. In a LabCon marginal with a truly vile MP (IDS) and a pretty awful (from my point of view) Labour candidate Faiza Shaheen, still not sure if I can hold my nose this time around.

Too many Jewish friends I would struggle to look in the eye if I voted Labour, and I hadn't realised the missus (not top 5% earner) will be butchered by Labour's tax plans (legitimately contracting through a limited company), on the other side IDS.

 FPTP fucking sucks

It sure does, and I completely understand anyone who has reservations voting for Labour.  But I'd have trouble living with myself watching what Johnson will do over the next 5 years if there was something more I could have done to stop it.  The fact is, Corbyn will not be the prime minister on December 13th, Johnson will be.  It's whether you want him to have a majority or not.

I thought this was good on the morality of voting for Labour to keep out the Conservatives:

https://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2019/11/27/election-2019-the-ethics-of-voting-for-the-lesser-evil

Offline filopastry

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Re: General Election part 2 (fingers crossed) thread
« Reply #3344 on: November 28, 2019, 03:12:26 pm »

That’s a huge oversimplification- The Sun only jumped on board once it was absolutely clear that Labour were head and shoulders above Major and the Tories - they hitched their wagon to the winning team so that they could argue they continued their winning record. The Sun did not help dramatically with the absolute landslide Labour won.
Indeed, by 1997 with the Tories in disarray over Europe, having lost their reputation for economic competence after crashing out of the ERM and with an electible Labour Party the election result was a no brainer, the press flipping may have influenced the size of the majority that is about it.

Offline Byrnee

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Re: General Election part 2 (fingers crossed) thread
« Reply #3345 on: November 28, 2019, 03:17:11 pm »
Also - if anything in 1997 the media was far more important given print media’s reduced impact today. And it bears repeating: 418 seats.

Even Cameron’s 2010 sure thing didn’t get in - only by forming a coalition did they get the power that this all seeing all powerful media had guaranteed was about to happen. That’s after a massive recession with the blame at Labours door. (Which we should have fought harder to argue against at the time but thats done now).

In 2015 he promises a referendum presumably thinking that another coalition (again, the prediction of most newspapers) would stop it. But that gets him the seats.

The press aren’t as powerful as they used to be... and again Labour had 13 years in power during their heyday 97-2010, and could have formed a minority govt with the Lib Dems even then.

Sometimes you have to accept that blame is with the candidiate, campaign and party.
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Offline Claire.

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Re: General Election part 2 (fingers crossed) thread
« Reply #3346 on: November 28, 2019, 03:23:36 pm »
It really does confirm that most people in this country are absolutely self serving. Really boggles my mind how they continue to have such a large support.

It's not even self interest, it's deference. Which is even more mind boggling.

I was thinking this morning that Labour would do well to say, regardless of the people's vote, that they will implement the same FoM controls they use in France (3 months, no access to services without contribution). I think that'd play well with the audience they're trying to claw back. I don't like giving racists a bone, but these people are convinced that's the problem. It also might dispel some of the shite about us being powerless.

Offline mikey_LFC

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Re: General Election part 2 (fingers crossed) thread
« Reply #3347 on: November 28, 2019, 03:25:31 pm »


I don't buy that Brexit is a right wing project. I think it is a project led by the right wing, but the ideas appeal to many of the founding principles of the labour movement i.e. the protection of jobs, which is the position Corbyn holds. Control itself is also is a left wing fundamental principle.

Brexit resonates with life-long labour voters because their support for each cause come from the same root. For many fear of immigration taking jobs is at the root of Brexit and job security is also at the root of supporting Labour for many.

Don't hear what I'm not saying. I don't buy these arguments but to say Brexit is right wing ignores one of the driving forces behind it being rooted firmly in left-wing ideology.

Obviously there are other reasons for people voting Brexit the resonated with right-wing voters, but the left is innocent in the success of the leave vote.



It is hardly surprising though. Labour learned more than 20 years ago that the old labour views weren't resonating with the public, so they changed tact and that is why Blair was so successful.

My belief is that the majority of the general public are more inclined to vote Labour than Tory, hence when they were both closer to centre, Labour would win. The issue is the further left ideals of the current Labour manifesto just aren't attractive to many voters. Nationalisation of major industries isn't really something that people are calling out for. So at the point that both parties pull away from the centre, the ideas that the Torys can sell around a prosperous economy etc. are more likely to win votes, as the middle class in the country grows.

This is highlighted by one of the points in the list a few posts back of all the terrible things the Tory government has caused. It is a shameful list, but having an increase in self-employed status among them is out-of-touch. People don't see that in the negative light that staunch labour voters would, because many would rather try to be their own boss with the potential of becoming wealthy, than have a secure job that doesn't offer this same opportunity.

This is what Blair recognised and Corbyn doesn't.

I believe Corbyn has a well-thought out perspective on a wide range of issues, that are often too nuanced for the general public or at least the media to take the time to understand, so he encapsulates them in sound-bites that are easy to deliberately take the wrong way, and if he tries to explain in more detail, he is labelled as unclear or confusing.

The issue is though that is fundamental beliefs aren't shared by the vast majority of the country, as even a large portion of labour voters aren't voting for him, but either as an anti-tory vote or from a lack of alternatives that can offer true opposition.

I really believe there is a space for a form of left wing politics in this country that can win a majority in an election, but it isn't this one.
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Offline realtarragona

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Re: So.. I'll be voting Labour
« Reply #3348 on: November 28, 2019, 03:29:20 pm »
I hadn't realised the missus (not top 5% earner) will be butchered by Labour's tax plans (legitimately contracting through a limited company)

In what way? And does she work in the public or private sector?

Offline mikey_LFC

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Re: So.. I'll be voting Labour
« Reply #3349 on: November 28, 2019, 03:31:35 pm »
To be honest, I think if you're stuck for what to do, accept the high probability of a Tory majority and cast a vote that will make a difference.

I really think that a large groundswell of support for the Green party could become as powerful for the left as UKIP was for the right.

Voting Labour will only give Corbyn more hope of retaining control, giving the left less likelihood of a win in future, and a win that people in here wouldn't celebrate from the sounds of it.

Better to have a protest vote against Labour and the Tories that could at least provide the push for the left to find a new leader who could actually challenge for a majority.

Meanwhile a Green party vote could get the government moving on climate change policy.
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Offline Cpt_Reina

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Re: So.. I'll be voting Labour
« Reply #3350 on: November 28, 2019, 03:33:11 pm »

Meanwhile a Green party vote could get the government moving on climate change policy.

A Johnson led Conservative government? Ha.

Offline mikey_LFC

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Re: So.. I'll be voting Labour
« Reply #3351 on: November 28, 2019, 03:35:14 pm »
A Johnson led Conservative government? Ha.

You'd think people would have learned of the power a loud minority can have. Cameron didn't want Brexit, but gave in to get votes. The tories can be manipulated by the voting public into pushing for more sustainability.
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Offline Lusty

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Re: So.. I'll be voting Labour
« Reply #3352 on: November 28, 2019, 03:38:06 pm »
To be honest, I think if you're stuck for what to do, accept the high probability of a Tory majority and cast a vote that will make a difference.

I really think that a large groundswell of support for the Green party could become as powerful for the left as UKIP was for the right.

Voting Labour will only give Corbyn more hope of retaining control, giving the left less likelihood of a win in future, and a win that people in here wouldn't celebrate from the sounds of it.

Better to have a protest vote against Labour and the Tories that could at least provide the push for the left to find a new leader who could actually challenge for a majority.

Meanwhile a Green party vote could get the government moving on climate change policy.

I'm sorry, but if the Conservatives win a majority they are not going to be arsed at all if Labour are leaking votes to the Green Party.  It works in their favour.  If Labour were on track for a large majority you'd have a point.

Unless you live in Brighton, a vote for the Greens is going to do a lot more harm than good to the environment.

Offline filopastry

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Re: So.. I'll be voting Labour
« Reply #3353 on: November 28, 2019, 03:39:51 pm »
In what way? And does she work in the public or private sector?
Private sector, increased CT rate and more importantly changes to dividend taxation, realistically I think under the new tax regime she would effectively become treated as an employee for tax purposes, without any of the benefits of bring an employee.