Topic: Jürgen Klopp

[El Lobo]

I don’t particularly think he’s trying to make a point. Once again we’re put in a shitty position by two different associations or whatever not communicating.

[Koplass]

I do kind of wonder if the decision should be put into the hands of some of the players. If Lovren, Matip, Fabinho, Milner, Adrian, Keita, Origi, Lallana, Minamino etc want to be involved then perhaps they should be involved. What disruption would that bring? Would their mid to long term training schedules change, assuming this break has been built into any training programmes? Obviously the risk of injury might be the key thing.

For some of those players they might be struggling to get minutes elsewhere in the season if we go out of the cup, so I think it would be an odd choice not to give them that opportunity. Like you say, there may be reasons that we're not aware of but currently it feels a bit like cutting off our nose to spite our face.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

You would think that the manager would know exactly what's best for his players and how to get them back up to speed. You would think that he would get the benefit of the doubt.

[Alan_X]

We'll probably get a massive fine and get made an example of. But who cares.

Why would we? Are they going to fine us for yesterday? Or all of the other teams who made 8-9 changes from their League teams?

[WillG.LFC]

Surely opposition fans should be welcoming this as it makes it more likely we go out? It's just people being frustrated we are doing so well and looking to cause conflict. Klopps job is to make the best decisions for Liverpool which he is doing

[TheMightyReds]

Fuck me there's some right bollocks being written in here. You're probably right though. Why should the man who's won number six, the Super Cup and Club World Cup. Who is probably going to win us the league after 30 years and is breaking records left right and center...

Why the fuck should he have a holiday?

Well you never answered you're own question. 
You also done a classic case of selective reading.

He should be at this game. Period. No excuses. He is the face of Liverpool Football Club right now. It won't impact our league season (we have that won surely), why should it impact our CL preparations too? Going out to Shrewsbury at home, when fans have paid to get in and see their club and then seeing Klopp isn't even in the dugout would be galling. Why do fans bother. The games about greed. Top 6 rules, stuff the other 86 clubs.

I see Carragher making similar comments on this.

[FlashGordon]

People pay money to see Liverpool, anyone purchasing a ticket will be under no illusion as to what team/manager is going to show up. If people don't want to buy tickets it may open the door for younger local fans to get their hands on tickets which is always a plus. Kids on the pitch and kids in the stand, i'm sure it'll be lively.

[duvva 💅]

I really question why hasn't the PFA stepped in?

Why can't they introduce some simple rules, based on sports science. E.g.

A minimum gap between games of 72 hours.
A maximum number of games per year.
A fortnightly break over the winter.
A three week break in the summer.

All of this sounds reasonable to me.

However, there are reasons the maximum number of games would be difficult to agree/manage. The main one being money, and possibly the players may not want a limit.
Unfortunately I think various cups and tournaments would need to lose games for the breaks suggested to be possible as well, and again that comes down to money.

[tornado]

Might come down to simple facts like players who have school going kids and are not flying away and who are not part of usual starting XI volunteering to start - possibly Milner, Lovren and Adrian(?).
 2-3 players from senior squad with rest from U-23s should be enough to do the job.

[Fromola]

Why would we? Are they going to fine us for yesterday? Or all of the other teams who made 8-9 changes from their League teams?

The replay will be worth at least half a million to us anyway in ticket money so a fine is useless

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

Well you never answered you're own question. 
You also done a classic case of selective reading.

He should be at this game. Period. No excuses. He is the face of Liverpool Football Club right now. It won't impact our league season (we have that won surely), why should it impact our CL preparations too? Going out to Shrewsbury at home, when fans have paid to get in and see their club and then seeing Klopp isn't even in the dugout would be galling. Why do fans bother. The games about greed. Top 6 rules, stuff the other 86 clubs.

I see Carragher making similar comments on this.

You're assuming we will go out.
Why would it be galling if he's not there, when he's already said that he won't be there?

He's put everything into this club. He's led the club itself, the fans, the players, everyone. He helps promote the club commercially, he gets involved in voluntary work. I trust his judgment on this.

If we end up playing the 23's and he hoofed Critchley out of the way to "be at this game. Period. No excuses" then he'd probably have an equally large number of equally clueless people having a go at him for that too.

We haven't won the league yet, but we have our best chance in 30 years of doing so. Nothing should come in the way of that.

[newterp]

You would think that the manager would know exactly what's best for his players and how to get them back up to speed. You would think that he would get the benefit of the doubt.

Players around the world are not going sign for us because we disrespected the FA cup.

[upthereds95]

Well you never answered you're own question. 
You also done a classic case of selective reading.

He should be at this game. Period. No excuses. He is the face of Liverpool Football Club right now. It won't impact our league season (we have that won surely), why should it impact our CL preparations too? Going out to Shrewsbury at home, when fans have paid to get in and see their club and then seeing Klopp isn't even in the dugout would be galling. Why do fans bother. The games about greed. Top 6 rules, stuff the other 86 clubs.

I see Carragher making similar comments on this.

Agree with this questioning this decision  doesn't make you some sort of cry arse at the end of the day we blatantly have a large squad and are capable of putting out a similar side to last night. Obviously salah van dijk can still have this break regardless most people on here who disagree with the under 23s playing are only suggesting that we play some first team squad players to gove us a better chance of progessing and winning a treble.

I wonder if we draw a lower league side in the cup tonight people may change their minds as that would give us a good chance of getting to the quarter final without having to play any of our vital first team players.

I love klopp just as much as anyone and obvisouly his final say goes but it does seem like we are cutting are noses of to spite are face as said previously. I’ll still be at the match if its the under 23’s playing or not like but if people are paying hard earned money to watch liverpool surely we should play some senior players its not like we have two games in two days.

Might be an exaggeration but going forward are we saying that we are basically not interested in the domestic cups therefore no point buying tickets for these games as long as fixture congestion is a issue.

[duvva 💅]

Well you never answered you're own question. 
You also done a classic case of selective reading.

He should be at this game. Period. No excuses. He is the face of Liverpool Football Club right now. It won't impact our league season (we have that won surely), why should it impact our CL preparations too? Going out to Shrewsbury at home, when fans have paid to get in and see their club and then seeing Klopp isn't even in the dugout would be galling. Why do fans bother. The games about greed. Top 6 rules, stuff the other 86 clubs.

I see Carragher making similar comments on this.

You ok coming home in the middle of your holiday to do your job for a day? Do you think if you were asked to do that you’d also not be thinking about it in the days leading up to it, having to make rearrangements etc?

The break is the break, it’s been arranged (poorly as per usual between the authorities), and it should be honoured. The same as you would expect your leave to be honoured.

[idontknow]

‘Hey Dejan, you can have 7 days instead of the 12 you planned on with your family since the beginning of the season and if you complain remember it’s your own fault for letting that 2nd goal in’

I've heard similar, and walked.
Boss who said it died owing me £41.28.
Well worth it. 

Obviously, I'm not a footie player, or a dedicated disciplined professional of any sorr, but I am (!!!!) human, and stuff like you've said rankles.

[TheMightyReds]

You ok coming home in the middle of your holiday to do your job for a day? Do you think if you were asked to do that you’d also not be thinking about it in the days leading up to it, having to make rearrangements etc?

The break is the break, it’s been arranged (poorly as per usual between the authorities), and it should be honoured. The same as you would expect your leave to be honoured.

Yes I would be ok for £8M or whatever pounds! I'd jog it in! Losing 2-3 days off your break is hardly the end of the world. 

Every game is a privilege. Us fans religiously go and watch every game. Just don't like the way modern football is going.

The break isn't the break though is it. Two parties have not agreed it. Club are being too stubborn for their own good.

[FlashGordon]

Yes I would be ok for £8M or whatever pounds! I'd jog it in! Losing 2-3 days off your break is hardly the end of the world. 

Every game is a privilege. Us fans religiously go and watch every game. Just don't like the way modern football is going.

The break isn't the break though is it. Two parties have not agreed it. Club are being too stubborn for their own good.

You're right there but not in the way you think. It was actually three parties who agreed to it, FA, PL & EFL.

You go to support Liverpool, not specific players or managers.

[Alan_X]

Why do fans bother.

Why do fans bother? Good question. The fans at the majority of other clubs don't have Klopp in the dugout. They will pay to watch players of a far lower standard than our U23s. They'll pay and support their team in the knowledge that they'll never see them win a league, or a trophy of any kind. Why do they bother? Becvasue that's what supporting your team is all about.

The games about greed. Top 6 rules, stuff the other 86 clubs...

If you're talking about the entitled behaviour of some of our support over this then you're spot on.

There's a chance for people who don't get to many (any) games to go along and be part of something special. Shrewsbury will be up for it but we have a talented group of youngsters who have shown that they understand what it means to play for Liverpool.

[Yorkykopite]

Players around the world are not going sign for us because we disrespected the FA cup.

Has anybody at all said this or used it as an argument?

[duvva 💅]

Yes I would be ok for £8M or whatever pounds! I'd jog it in! Losing 2-3 days off your break is hardly the end of the world. 

Every game is a privilege. Us fans religiously go and watch every game. Just don't like the way modern football is going.

The break isn't the break though is it. Two parties have not agreed it. Club are being too stubborn for their own good.

I assume you don’t get £8m, so that means you wouldn’t be happy to have your agreed time off cancelled.

The break is the break and it was agreed between the FA, PL and EFL, they just made a fuckin mess of it. That’s the issue, not the club being stubborn, they’re going along with the agreed break. The authorities need to sort it out properly so that this situation and the one we were faced with in December don’t arise again.

[idontknow]

You would think that the manager would know exactly what's best for his players and how to get them back up to speed. You would think that he would get the benefit of the doubt.

Oh, stop it, you, you big tease 
Trying to bring this big long thread to a commonsense conclusion, what are you like 

To paraphrase The Great JT,
"And it went on again, on again, on again, on again,
It was one of those threads on RAWK
That could never make do with a couple of posts
When ten thousand could log in and squawk."

(Obviously, to any poster reading, this is meant for 'them others who are wrong', not you.

(Would put a smiley on but it might not help)

[Fazak_Red]

The senior players who played yesterday should’ve lost any entitlement to a break after that performance.

[kennedy81]

I know the first team want and need their break, god knows they deserve it. But some of the lads coming back from injury or squad players, might actually be glad of a game. I don't know if Klopp has had this conversation with them, or if he just decided to go this way last night.
He's earned the right to do as he pleases, but I think it's disappointing when there was a real chance of doing something historic and win a treble.
He obviously feels it's in the team's best interests, so it is what it is. But if this is the path we're gonna take, then just go the whole hog and leave it entirely to the u23 next season and let Critchley take all the games.

All I need to know about the u23s is that they're developing well. I don't follow their results week in week out, or watch the games. Enough to be worrying about with the other lot.
I like the FA Cup. I don't like watching us get beat 5-0 by Villa and having to pretend like I don't care. I don't get to compartmentalize it as an 'u23 game' even though that's essentially what is was, and what this Shrewsbury game will be.

[Alan_X]

Has anybody at all said this or used it as an argument?

I assume (hope) he's taking the piss.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

The senior players who played yesterday should’ve lost any entitlement to a break after that performance.

Ah yes, thats how fitness works for the duration of the season.

[Alan_X]

The senior players who played yesterday should’ve lost any entitlement to a break after that performance.

Because that's the way you build up team spirit. We shjould get Moyes in and have them doing laps.

[Fazak_Red]

Ah yes, thats how fitness works for the duration of the season.

Here we go with the sports science shouts.

All them players who played yesterday must be done in with all the games they’ve played this season. How many have they all started this season?

Loads of them are rusty. Some are inexperienced. They could do with a proper match.

[newterp]

The senior players who played yesterday should’ve lost any entitlement to a break after that performance.

The ones that dropped points to United should have been sold.

[TheMightyReds]

I assume you don’t get £8m, so that means you wouldn’t be happy to have your agreed time off cancelled.

The break is the break and it was agreed between the FA, PL and EFL, they just made a fuckin mess of it. That’s the issue, not the club being stubborn, they’re going along with the agreed break. The authorities need to sort it out properly so that this situation and the one we were faced with in December don’t arise again.

Quite clearly isn't when one party is scheduling replays in the break. What was the agreement? If that was in it, then it isn't a break is it? It isn't happy camping for anyone.

Don't think you got my post. You understand that different pay levels in jobs (especially ones paying obscene money) entail a higher level of demand upon you? Right, well just like that I'd expect the manager at least, at least him to be present for a competitive game in a competition we have won 7 times. We can still rotate the team with a blend of mainly youth but also some 1st teamers.

[MolbyLovesGravlax]

I would hope we have a discussion behind closed doors and see if any players want to play in the game.
As other have pointed out, some coming back from injury may want to play to try and get themselves in a better position to push for a place, Adrian might prefer to get another game as the FA cup keeper etc.
I don't disagree if the league finally gets a winter break (and done in a way so there is not a real break, just x teams off one week and x the next, and players and staff plan around it then the club doesn't owe some right to bow to the FA over a cup replay, however if we dig in without compromise then we may end up losing the messaging war when maybe we can find a way to field a team not dissimilar in quality to the one we just played.
And besides we can always get Critchley some lifts in his shoes and a hat and he can wear a snood, nobody need be the wiser....

[Magix]

I'm not sure there's a whole lot to discuss. The likes of Lovren, Matip and Origi have also been pencilled in for a winter break because they're part of the first-team picture. Having them cut short their own hols or personal schedule disrupts team harmony just to get perceived match fitness in.

Also, since the under 23s are playing, Neil Critchley is the better suited manager for the task.

[Funky_Gibbons]

The senior players who played yesterday should’ve lost any entitlement to a break after that performance.

Should Klopp still get his break?

What about Salah and Firmino?

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Here we go with the sports science shouts.

All them players who played yesterday must be done in with all the games they’ve played this season. How many have they all started this season?

Loads of them are rusty. Some are inexperienced. They could do with a proper match.

No doubt you're the expert here, but clearly the world class manager and his staff, are completely oblivious to how many minutes each player has played, and what their current condition and state is , and how to get them on the right path to fitness.  So while you'
re able to think about this, our manager and coaching staff can not. I'd advise you to urgently send an email to them.

[lionel_messias]

I'm not sure there's a whole lot to discuss. The likes of Lovren, Matip and Origi have also been pencilled in for a winter break because they're part of the first-team picture. Having them cut short their own hols or personal schedule disrupts team harmony just to get perceived match fitness in.

Also, since the under 23s are playing, Neil Critchley is the better suited manager for the task.

Yep, squad harmony. You can't have one or two playing in it and the rest on holiday.

The FA Cup is not what it once was, at this point in time we are not busting a gut to win it, however we are sending our very talented under 23s to do the job.

[duvva 💅]

Quite clearly isn't when one party is scheduling replays in the break. What was the agreement? If that was in it, then it isn't a break is it? It isn't happy camping for anyone.

Don't think you got my post. You understand that different pay levels in jobs (especially ones paying obscene money) entail a higher level of demand upon you? Right, well just like that I'd expect the manager at least, at least him to be present for a competitive game in a competition we have won 7 times. We can still rotate the team with a blend of mainly youth but also some 1st teamers.

Like I said the break was agreed by all 3 authorities, somehow this possibility was overlooked by them. Their fuck up. That’s the story here.

I do get your post, but it doesn’t matter what you’re paid, you still have rights and are entitled to agreed leave. There probably is a bit of us making point here, but there’s a point to be made. Klopp has said he’d quite happily accept less money for less matches, so don’t agree a break and then schedule a match in it and there wouldn’t be this issue.

[duvva 💅]

Should Klopp still get his break?

Course not he gets paid £8m. And did fuck all to change yesterday’s result, standing there shouting, making his substitutions too late. Why we haven’t jibbed him off for a club legend like Danny Murphy I’ll never know!

[Red Beret]

Bloody hell, people are arguing about this? In the Klopp thread?

Surely a separate topic?

[newterp]

Someone in charge of Fortune 500 company needs time off just as much as someone working 40 hours a week in a factory. There is a mental component that can’t be simply shaken off due to income levels.

[Fazak_Red]

Should Klopp still get his break?

Yeah after the replay. The first team manager should be managing the game.

If he doesn’t want to then the club should pull out the cup and save us who go the game wasting money on tickets and travel.

[CraigDS]

Yeah after the replay. The first team manager should be managing the game.

If he doesn’t want to then the club should pull out the cup and save us who go the game wasting money on tickets and travel.

Did you go the league cup game and say the same?