Author Topic: Wrestling Thread (AEW, NJPW, WWE, etc) (*)  (Read 464597 times)

Offline XabiArt

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Re: Wrestling Thread (AEW, NJPW, WWE, etc) (*)
« Reply #2040 on: June 18, 2020, 11:17:19 am »
Right so I've started watching the first In Your House PPV from 95. I'm aiming to watch through to WM17. By that point I will be watching all the smackdowns and Raws so I expect it to take me some time.

Question is when do I start adding RAW to my watch list. I imagine 1995 RAW is quite poor. Maybe 97?

Offline Something Worse

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Re: Wrestling Thread (AEW, NJPW, WWE, etc) (*)
« Reply #2041 on: June 18, 2020, 01:05:24 pm »
Right so I've started watching the first In Your House PPV from 95. I'm aiming to watch through to WM17. By that point I will be watching all the smackdowns and Raws so I expect it to take me some time.

Question is when do I start adding RAW to my watch list. I imagine 1995 RAW is quite poor. Maybe 97?

A guess, but I'd probably start around the 96 Rumble. That way you'll get the Bret/Shawn stuff which obviously pays off over the next two years. You can probably skip a few after WM 12, maybe until KOTR when Austin 3:16 starts. Then watch the origin of Austin's big run.
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Re: Wrestling Thread (AEW, NJPW, WWE, etc) (*)
« Reply #2042 on: June 18, 2020, 01:12:31 pm »
Nice one seems about right. I imagine it's going to take me a good few months to get through it all, some serious hours to put in. Tempted to watch WCW from the Scott Hall debut to the WM17 point afterwards. Not really ever seen much of it.

Offline Samie

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Re: Wrestling Thread (AEW, NJPW, WWE, etc) (*)
« Reply #2043 on: June 18, 2020, 01:14:39 pm »
95 was a poor time for WWF mate. Picks up from 96 onwards.

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Re: Wrestling Thread (AEW, NJPW, WWE, etc) (*)
« Reply #2044 on: June 18, 2020, 01:46:50 pm »
I'm only watching the PPVs. Theres a few good matches about actually. Owen Bret Yokozuna Razor 123 kid. Double J and the Roadie! Its not bad at all!

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Re: Wrestling Thread (AEW, NJPW, WWE, etc) (*)
« Reply #2045 on: June 18, 2020, 04:45:45 pm »
95 was a poor time for WWF mate. Picks up from 96 onwards.
yep. I lost interest after wm12

Diesel as champion for a year with big standard matches and feuds

Summerslam 95 diesel v Mabel....jeeesus

King of the ring 95 was regarded for years as the worst ppv

Probably worse since but horrendous booking. "hmmmm kotr we've got Michaels and undertaker......oooh I know let Mabel win"
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Offline Something Worse

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Re: Wrestling Thread (AEW, NJPW, WWE, etc) (*)
« Reply #2046 on: June 18, 2020, 05:31:23 pm »
yep. I lost interest after wm12

Diesel as champion for a year with big standard matches and feuds

Summerslam 95 diesel v Mabel....jeeesus

King of the ring 95 was regarded for years as the worst ppv

Probably worse since but horrendous booking. "hmmmm kotr we've got Michaels and undertaker......oooh I know let Mabel win"

That was WM11 but yeah, 95 was the absolute nadir.
Maybe the group, led by your leadership, will see these drafts as PR functions and brilliant use of humor

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Re: Wrestling Thread (AEW, NJPW, WWE, etc) (*)
« Reply #2047 on: June 18, 2020, 06:25:14 pm »
Wasn't RAW 90% squash matches until well into 1997? Not sure it's worth bothering with the weekly show until after Survivor Series 1996 at the earliest.

Offline Samie

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Re: Wrestling Thread (AEW, NJPW, WWE, etc) (*)
« Reply #2048 on: June 18, 2020, 07:05:29 pm »
Kevin Nash/Diesel should not have been champion for more than a week never mind a whole fuckin' year.

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Re: Wrestling Thread (AEW, NJPW, WWE, etc) (*)
« Reply #2049 on: June 18, 2020, 07:22:49 pm »
I'm quite enjoying the IYH events to be honest. 1 hour 45 minutes. The odd genuinely exciting match and always fun seeing people in old gimmicks. Wont take me long to get through the year.

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Re: Wrestling Thread (AEW, NJPW, WWE, etc) (*)
« Reply #2050 on: June 18, 2020, 09:43:18 pm »
I'd pick it up from around 85 and then stop in 93.

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Re: Wrestling Thread (AEW, NJPW, WWE, etc) (*)
« Reply #2051 on: June 18, 2020, 09:56:29 pm »
Just FYI for anyone who has Now TV - the Dark Side of the Ring episodes from both seasons are all on there.  The Brawl For All and David Schultz ones are really good.
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Re: Wrestling Thread (AEW, NJPW, WWE, etc) (*)
« Reply #2052 on: June 18, 2020, 10:16:44 pm »
A while ago I was feeling a wrestling itch and was going to get the network to relive the entire attitude era, but I never got round to it - and then AEW started so I'll not bother now.

And on that subject, another great Dynamite with a fairly excellent bait and switch - Anna Jay had a couple of Dark matches at the start of the lockdown shows, and they quickly announced that she'd signed before she disappeared for months (well, she was at ringside). They give a big announcement that her Dynamite debut was this week (didn't name the opponent), and even ran a "I've had to work hard" vignette before the match, typical face push stuff, and the expectation was she would prevail against some enhancement heel.

Well instead, they announced Abadon, a sort of undead Antichrist Superstar-era Marilyn Manson type (she did also once get a Dark match before lockdown), who crawled towards the ring and proceeded to flatten Jay in 2 minutes. Then just as Excalibur said "the story now for Anna Jay is how is she going to bounce back from this loss" the Dark Order music hit and they came out, extended the hand and walked off with her.

AEW gets stick for a lot of their matches being predictable but this came out of nowhere.
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Offline Something Worse

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Re: Wrestling Thread (AEW, NJPW, WWE, etc) (*)
« Reply #2053 on: June 18, 2020, 10:25:44 pm »
I'd pick it up from around 85 and then stop in 93.

Maybe the group, led by your leadership, will see these drafts as PR functions and brilliant use of humor

Hey Claus, fuck off.

Offline gazzalfc

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Re: Wrestling Thread (AEW, NJPW, WWE, etc) (*)
« Reply #2054 on: June 18, 2020, 10:37:47 pm »
Some horrible reports about UK indi wrestler David Starr the past few days.

He's been dumped by every single UK promotion that has him down as champion and looks likely never to wrestle again.

Seems to be a watershed moment for the UK independent scene

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Re: Wrestling Thread (AEW, NJPW, WWE, etc) (*)
« Reply #2055 on: June 18, 2020, 10:52:21 pm »
Seems to be a lot of stuff potentially coming out off the back of the Starr situation, with people speaking up more.  He comes across as a monumental bellend as well.
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Re: Wrestling Thread (AEW, NJPW, WWE, etc) (*)
« Reply #2056 on: June 19, 2020, 01:09:07 am »
A LOT of UK wrestlers being called out now for being sexual predators or abusive. At this stage, too many to count.

Of note, people being accused are:

David Starr (rape)
El Ligero (unwanted advances)
Jordan Devlin (rape)
Travis Banks (abusive relationship)
Tyler Bates (tried to force a woman into his hotel room)
Mikey Whiplash (abusive and sexual as a booker)
Jack Sexsmith (rape)
Joe Coffey (unwanted advances)
Jimmy Havoc (extremely emotionally manipulative)
Josh Bodem (unsolicited nudes and abusive behaviour)
El Phantasmo  (abusive)
Marty Scurll (anonymous reports of underage sex at after show parties)

Now stateside talent are being accused as well. Joey Ryan and Jim Cournette (and his wife) being accused now, as well as someone who the description in the allegation is most likely Jake Hager.

And so many more. This Twitter is keeping a list but it is moving fast https://twitter.com/ExposeWrestling?s=09

Offline Something Worse

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Re: Wrestling Thread (AEW, NJPW, WWE, etc) (*)
« Reply #2057 on: June 19, 2020, 02:23:56 am »
That's wild. I'd heard about Scurll and Starr too, but it's crazy how many there are. I hope they're all blacklisted.
Maybe the group, led by your leadership, will see these drafts as PR functions and brilliant use of humor

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Re: Wrestling Thread (AEW, NJPW, WWE, etc) (*)
« Reply #2058 on: June 19, 2020, 03:07:11 am »
A LOT of UK wrestlers being called out now for being sexual predators or abusive. At this stage, too many to count.

Of note, people being accused are:

David Starr (rape)
El Ligero (unwanted advances)
Jordan Devlin (rape)
Travis Banks (abusive relationship)
Tyler Bates (tried to force a woman into his hotel room)
Mikey Whiplash (abusive and sexual as a booker)
Jack Sexsmith (rape)
Joe Coffey (unwanted advances)
Jimmy Havoc (extremely emotionally manipulative)
Josh Bodem (unsolicited nudes and abusive behaviour)
El Phantasmo  (abusive)
Marty Scurll (anonymous reports of underage sex at after show parties)

Now stateside talent are being accused as well. Joey Ryan and Jim Cournette (and his wife) being accused now, as well as someone who the description in the allegation is most likely Jake Hager.

And so many more. This Twitter is keeping a list but it is moving fast https://twitter.com/ExposeWrestling?s=09

Want to clarify for one person, apparently the accusation against El Phantasmo is not true, and in fact the woman accusing him is a stalker of wrestlers, in particular, ELP

Offline OsirisMVZ

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Re: Wrestling Thread (AEW, NJPW, WWE, etc) (*)
« Reply #2059 on: June 19, 2020, 09:28:18 am »
Seems to be a lot of stuff potentially coming out off the back of the Starr situation, with people speaking up more.  He comes across as a monumental bellend as well.



BritWres in shambles.


SMH.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2020, 12:07:39 pm by OsirisMVZ »

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Re: Wrestling Thread (AEW, NJPW, WWE, etc) (*)
« Reply #2060 on: June 19, 2020, 09:53:01 am »


BritWres in shambles.

For clarification it does seem that ELP's accusations were by a psychotic lady who has form for this, and that Tyler Bate just seems like he asked someone to come to his room, crashed & burned and probably shouldn't be lumped in and associated with the others.

SMH.

Hmm not too sure on Tyler. Theres a fair few rumours he has harassed people on dating sites, and that Exposewrestling account apparently has screenshots from multiple people. It's more than the hotel story, apparently.

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Re: Wrestling Thread (AEW, NJPW, WWE, etc) (*)
« Reply #2061 on: June 19, 2020, 10:04:11 am »
To update the list, someone has backed up Taeler Hendrix accusations against Jay Lethal.

The fact that he started a relationship with a few of his trainee's(including AJ Lee and I believe Brandi Lauren) may have been a sign that there is a history of fucked up power manipulation from him, in hindsight.

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Offline paulrazor

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Re: Wrestling Thread (AEW, NJPW, WWE, etc) (*)
« Reply #2063 on: June 19, 2020, 10:26:58 am »
That was WM11 but yeah, 95 was the absolute nadir.
sorry youre right, also meant to say bog standard matches

Kevin Nash/Diesel should not have been champion for more than a week never mind a whole fuckin' year.
had a good chemistry with razor ramon.

michaels and bret would get good matches out of him too, but aside from that he was rubbish

sid, tatanka and bulldog ppv matches sucked

i referenced kotr 95, intercontinental champion in corner of roadie and not on card,,,, should be other way around

loads of wrestlers left off card and shit show of a booking. were the writers on crack?
« Last Edit: June 19, 2020, 10:36:31 am by Hellrazor »
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Re: Wrestling Thread (AEW, NJPW, WWE, etc) (*)
« Reply #2064 on: June 19, 2020, 11:20:09 am »
Not...Joey Ryan!


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Re: Wrestling Thread (AEW, NJPW, WWE, etc) (*)
« Reply #2065 on: June 19, 2020, 11:24:47 am »
Not...Joey Ryan!



I am shocked it has taken so long for him to be rumbled.

A few did shock me like. Honestly I, obviously naively, thought the era of wrestlers being sex pests had passed


Offline tubby

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Re: Wrestling Thread (AEW, NJPW, WWE, etc) (*)
« Reply #2066 on: June 19, 2020, 11:40:56 am »
Wonder if a really big name is going to get caught up in this.  Wrestling has always been a sleazy business and I can't even imagine how many women Vince will have cracked on to over the years.
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Re: Wrestling Thread (AEW, NJPW, WWE, etc) (*)
« Reply #2067 on: June 19, 2020, 11:43:46 am »
Wonder if a really big name is going to get caught up in this.  Wrestling has always been a sleazy business and I can't even imagine how many women Vince will have cracked on to over the years.

Depends how big you want to say. So far the biggest is probably Matt Riddle; regular WWE wrestler moving to Smackdown. Could also say Jim Cornette as a historical wrestling figure, and a source of controversy now.

 Anyone bigger, unfortunately, may be quite protected.

There have always been very strong rumours Vince tapped a female referee decades ago.

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Re: Wrestling Thread (AEW, NJPW, WWE, etc) (*)
« Reply #2068 on: June 19, 2020, 11:48:52 am »
The Cornette stuff is... I can't even.  Really interested to see if he addresses it in his podcasts.
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Re: Wrestling Thread (AEW, NJPW, WWE, etc) (*)
« Reply #2069 on: June 19, 2020, 11:53:29 am »
Have to say, sickening as it is, I’m pretty surprised something like this hasn’t come out before considering some of the mental shit you hear that’s gone on over the decades.
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Re: Wrestling Thread (AEW, NJPW, WWE, etc) (*)
« Reply #2070 on: June 19, 2020, 11:59:56 am »
Have to say, sickening as it is, I’m pretty surprised something like this hasn’t come out before considering some of the mental shit you hear that’s gone on over the decades.

I think it's mostly fear for people that they won't make it in the industry, same with the Weinstein stuff.
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Re: Wrestling Thread (AEW, NJPW, WWE, etc) (*)
« Reply #2071 on: June 19, 2020, 12:01:17 pm »
Have to say, sickening as it is, I’m pretty surprised something like this hasn’t come out before considering some of the mental shit you hear that’s gone on over the decades.

These guys are in most cases, the bookers and the trainers, or at least the friends of bookers and trainers. In most cases the people abused their younger talent and trainee's.

They hold all the power. If anyone spoke against them, they would close rank and kick them out of the business, or just manipulate the abused.

Also add another to the list; Jack Gallagher accused now: https://twitter.com/JayneBkyboo/status/1273894427975716865?s=09
« Last Edit: June 19, 2020, 12:03:19 pm by Stockholm Syndrome »

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Re: Wrestling Thread (AEW, NJPW, WWE, etc) (*)
« Reply #2072 on: June 19, 2020, 12:05:32 pm »
In hindsight, people should have known Starr was dodgy when he makes comments like this

https://twitter.com/oldathers/status/1273904998531899395?s=09

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Re: Wrestling Thread (AEW, NJPW, WWE, etc) (*)
« Reply #2073 on: June 19, 2020, 01:31:03 pm »
I sense some big names coming, if it’s this widespread there’s no way it’s only in the indys.
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Re: Wrestling Thread (AEW, NJPW, WWE, etc) (*)
« Reply #2074 on: June 19, 2020, 02:58:34 pm »
I sense some big names coming, if it’s this widespread there’s no way it’s only in the indys.
Look at some of the stuff people used to laugh about in the 80s/90s in WWF, I can imagine it's still there at some level, only a lot more hush-hush.
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Re: Wrestling Thread (AEW, NJPW, WWE, etc) (*)
« Reply #2075 on: June 19, 2020, 03:42:10 pm »
I don’t find it surprising that these things happen in the industry. What is kind of terrifying though, is that it was probably much, much worse in years gone by. There are so many stories that will never see the light of day.

As horrible as some of these stories are though, I do think we need to let the dust settle a little bit in some instances. I’m personally not keen on the rush to ruin somebody’s entire career and reputation within a few tweets. The accused need to be allowed at least a chance to respond before we all label them as guilty.

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Re: Wrestling Thread (AEW, NJPW, WWE, etc) (*)
« Reply #2076 on: June 19, 2020, 03:58:48 pm »
I don’t find it surprising that these things happen in the industry. What is kind of terrifying though, is that it was probably much, much worse in years gone by. There are so many stories that will never see the light of day.

As horrible as some of these stories are though, I do think we need to let the dust settle a little bit in some instances. I’m personally not keen on the rush to ruin somebody’s entire career and reputation within a few tweets. The accused need to be allowed at least a chance to respond before we all label them as guilty.

It's a fine line though isnt it? With the oddly tribal nature of wrestling, any response by the accused will be accepted by many instantly, and life will go on (except with the abused being blacklisted typically). Certain fans and bookers will protect any comment, so they remain protected

I think in the cases where there is clear evidence or multiple accounts, they shouldn't get a word in.

With the likes of Starr, Galagher, Coffey, Whiplash, Banks, there is either multiple accounts or evidence which can be seen. They should be deemed rotten, and in appropriate cases, face legal ramifications.

With those where it is a bit more contentious so to speak, investigations should be conducted, but I dont think the accused should have their say, because they hold power in this situation, they have an advantage. They could say anything and close down the accusations against them, even if they are true.

So, for example, I think it is right that WWE are looking into the allegations against him.

Out of all the names, the only one I hold any slightly different views about is Jimmy Havoc. I dont believe he should wrestle again, but unlike the others who seem to be abusing positions of power, Havoc MAY be mentally unwell (the accusation against him include heavy drinking and using threats of self harm and suicide to manipulate his GF. It is awful behaviour, unforgivable, but he himself may need psychiatric help and rehab. Again I may be naive but that may change how he is to women. It wont absolve him but it is better I guess)

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Re: Wrestling Thread (AEW, NJPW, WWE, etc) (*)
« Reply #2077 on: June 19, 2020, 04:15:52 pm »
People shouldn't have a chance to defend themselves against criminal allegations? They should be banned from their profession forever because they were a shitty boyfriend? What is this, Maoist China?

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Re: Wrestling Thread (AEW, NJPW, WWE, etc) (*)
« Reply #2078 on: June 19, 2020, 04:26:25 pm »
It's a fine line though isnt it? With the oddly tribal nature of wrestling, any response by the accused will be accepted by many instantly, and life will go on (except with the abused being blacklisted typically). Certain fans and bookers will protect any comment, so they remain protected

I think in the cases where there is clear evidence or multiple accounts, they shouldn't get a word in.

With the likes of Starr, Galagher, Coffey, Whiplash, Banks, there is either multiple accounts or evidence which can be seen. They should be deemed rotten, and in appropriate cases, face legal ramifications.

With those where it is a bit more contentious so to speak, investigations should be conducted, but I dont think the accused should have their say, because they hold power in this situation, they have an advantage. They could say anything and close down the accusations against them, even if they are true.

So, for example, I think it is right that WWE are looking into the allegations against him.

Out of all the names, the only one I hold any slightly different views about is Jimmy Havoc. I dont believe he should wrestle again, but unlike the others who seem to be abusing positions of power, Havoc MAY be mentally unwell (the accusation against him include heavy drinking and using threats of self harm and suicide to manipulate his GF. It is awful behaviour, unforgivable, but he himself may need psychiatric help and rehab. Again I may be naive but that may change how he is to women. It wont absolve him but it is better I guess)
People have to be allowed to speak for themselves, no matter how much or how little power they wield. Madness to suggest otherwise.

But you’re right, there’s always a weird mixture in these things. There are some people who you can already tell are implicated and then others who might have done nothing much wrong at all. Sensitive ground, which is why it’s best not rush in. Everyone will though.

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Re: Wrestling Thread (AEW, NJPW, WWE, etc) (*)
« Reply #2079 on: June 19, 2020, 04:32:27 pm »
People shouldn't have a chance to defend themselves against criminal allegations? They should be banned from their profession forever because they were a shitty boyfriend? What is this, Maoist China?

Well they have every right to say what they want but I worry about how dangerous it can be. It's happened before when people make these claims, the guy accused can just say "That's bullshit" and his friends and fans will close rank and say "Yeah it's bullshit" and in that case they go one, and the person who spoke out gets forced out, and the cycle continues.

That happened with Jay Lethal and Taeler Hendrix years ago, and now he is in the firing line again, and her career is nigh on dead.

The abusers have power in this business, a lot. That's why I think these claims should be investigated. The abusers, a lot of the time, can just make a single public comment, and that will be the end of it.

In a criminal matter of course, if this ever does reach that stage (which it may not) then within the law they have their say.

What I worry about is someone like say Devlin going on twitter and saying "this is all false" and it all ends without being looked in to further, because that can easily happen here, and has happened (look at Velveteen Dream earlier this year). Hell that could have easily happened with Starr if more people didn't pop up with screenshots to say "nah you gaslight your GF and pressured them in to sex".